December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: spam on this list (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 19:25:51 -0400 > From: "Philip A. Mongelluzzo" <phimon(a)ix.netcom.com> > Subject: Re: spam on this list > I support the constitution. In the case of the first ammendment: The > freedom it allows you, or whoever, to send spam and indulge in child > pornography is the same freedom provided to those who say those ideas are > wrong. Got it? But it isn't the same as you present it. I will explain below. > How do we deal with child pornography and free speech in such a way as to > allow both to exist and insure our children are not exposed to pornographic > material until they are at a maturity level where they can deal with it? Let's look at this carefuly for a moment. Child pornography in and of itself is irrelevant. The issue is sexual acts involving one or more children by adults which are committed with (or without) the specific intent of creating some physical record for personal use or to pass to others (with or without profit). Now let's contrast this with a simple pencil drawing of a child and an adult having sex (eg. Greek pottery). The question is are these two acts, one involving a real physical act involving a minor, and the other as a physical expression of the artists imagination equivalent? Some would have you believe they are the same. Unfortunately, I have yet to see a clear explanation of the view. Now the other side is that they are different. This belief rests on at least two basic tenents. The first being that it is the physical act that constitutes the crime and not simply thinking about it. The second is that there is a fundamental difference of quality between an item and its representation in some symbology. From this it becomes clear that the issue is how do we reduce the initial sexual contact. If THAT can be resolved the other problems resolve themselves. Now, let's assume for a moment that we have in fact resolved this issue. Should we then regulate representations of these acts by persons when it is assumed no actual child was involved? The representation is nothing more than the ramblings of an expressive mind. So are we not making certain thought illegal? This certainly contrasts with the belief that a crime requires an act. That doesn't sound very rational to me. And what about if I don't draw it but rather write a story? Or perhaps use my image editor to take children bathing suite adds and medical sources to fill it out, why should this be any different than a written description? Or perhaps that image on the Greek pot? No, these sort of line drawing was meant to be prohibited by the Constitution. The founding fathers must have known the world was a gray sort of place so they took special precautions (ie 10 Amendments) to make nice and clear boundaries for the federal government (ie 1'st Amendment). It is clear that they expressely did not want the government involved in human expression. > If pornography is the enemy of crypto then that is enemy that must be fought. This is a straw man. There is no crypto involved in the physical act. Nice strawman argument though, got almost the whole damn world swallowing at this point.... > A battle that must be won without killing the enemy to insure continued > free speech. Quite a challenge I think. Only if you are confused about exactly what the issue at hand is. We need diagnostic proceedures usable by regular physicians and the issue really needs to be handled as a medical and not a legal issue. Putting people in jail won't effect this sort of human behaviour one damn bit. By the time the guy gets to jail some poor kid has been really abused, is that how you want your kid dealt with? ____________________________________________________________________ | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http:// www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Re: A better DES challenge
by Lucky Green 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 06:15 PM 6/23/97 -0700, Mike Duvos wrote: >Really. It appears that the DESCHALL frivolities actually >enhanced the reputation of DES, fluffy press releases by C2 and >Security Dynamics notwithstanding. Which is why I opposed a distributed crack ever since the crack was first proposed. But once the crack got underway, the only thing to do was to participate and hope it wouldn't take all that long. Stressing the individual that found the key over the group effort was the best thing that could be done in an already bad situation. Spin control is a fact of life. Now on to breaking 56 bit RC5 (a waste of time, but until that's out of the way there will be no sufficient support to break 64 bit RC5). I am encouraging corporate sponsorships for breaking RC5-64. If we can get $100,000 together (should be easy), people will find cycles you didn't even know existed. :-) --Lucky Green <shamrock(a)netcom.com> PGP encrypted mail preferred. DES is dead! Please join in breaking RC5-56. http://rc5.distributed.net/

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digital signature software
by chewp＠pacific.net.sg 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi Besides PGP and RIPEM/SIG, is anyone aware of other US-exportable digital signature software? Thanks Lip Ping chewp(a)pacific.net.sg

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Who is going to HIP'97?
by Lucky Green 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Who on this list intends to go to HIP'97? http://www.hip97.nl I would like to organize a C*punks meeting there. Thanks, --Lucky --Lucky Green <shamrock(a)netcom.com> PGP encrypted mail preferred. DES is dead! Please join in breaking RC5-56. http://rc5.distributed.net/

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Re: The Global Fix is In
by geeman＠best.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Maybe I should have said lobbyist group masquerading as 'thinktank' Like the American Security Council. AND: grassroots is totally different - I agree that they would be a voice in the wilderness - and very ineffectual How can you put them in the same category, "conservative thinktanks and grassroots groups" as if they are even in the same universe? Can any grassroots org. demonstrate the same track record in pushing legislation to go their way as can the corporate-funded PAC/thinktanks? Go back and look at the PAC list for McCain, and tell me how many that he is aligned with are leading the opposition to administration proposals? And then tell me that the thinktanks and the PACs are independent and unrelated. I don't think so. The thinktanks are used by the PACs and funded by them, indirectly at least. By the way, what does Rand Corp. have to say? At 10:16 PM 6/22/97 -0400, Declan McCullagh wrote: >Without taking a position on the rest of the following post, I should say >that it's the conservative thinktanks and grassroots groups that are >leading the opposition to all administration proposals and are taking a >crypto-absolutist stance. > >-Declan > >Sure, libertarian groups are just as good or better, but there are fewer >of them. (Cato -still- hasn't come out with their crypto policy analysis >even after they've been working on it for half a year. At least their >privacy paper should be coming out soon. And CEI doesn't have the staff to >devote someone to this issue.) They've done a few conferences and such, >but they're limited by numbers. > > > >On Sun, 22 Jun 1997 geeman(a)best.com wrote: > >> massive investments being made by Industry in the conservative thinktanks >> who produce the >> intellectual fodder-de-jour that supports the position of this elite, and >> overwhelm the >> likes of McCain and Kerrey with >> impossible-for-the-legislature-to-understand managed > > >

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ZDU Summer Registration is Now Open!
by announce＠lists.zdnet.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Re: A better DES challenge
by Tom Weinstein 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Lucky Green wrote: > > At 06:15 PM 6/23/97 -0700, Mike Duvos wrote: >> Really. It appears that the DESCHALL frivolities actually >> enhanced the reputation of DES, fluffy press releases by C2 and >> Security Dynamics notwithstanding. > > Which is why I opposed a distributed crack ever since the crack was > first proposed. But once the crack got underway, the only thing to do > was to participate and hope it wouldn't take all that long. Stressing > the individual that found the key over the group effort was the best > thing that could be done in an already bad situation. Spin control is > a fact of life. IMHO, it would have been better to emphasize the group effort, and that they could continue to crack keys at a rate of one every 30 days even if the computing base didn't continue to grow. Not to mention that they could also be cracking 40-bit keys at a rate of about 2000 a day. -- What is appropriate for the master is not appropriate| Tom Weinstein for the novice. You must understand Tao before | tomw(a)netscape.com transcending structure. -- The Tao of Programming |

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by Danielle-Cindy＠emirates.net.ae 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Re: New PGP signatures (fwd)
by Mark Grant 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Mon, 23 Jun 1997, William H. Geiger III wrote: > You really need to modify your mail-processing code as you are going to > see more and more of these. You should also start work on implementing the > PGP/MIME RFC as you will be seeing more of these messages. It's kind of hard to modify the code when I'm still waiting for the PGP 5.0 code to be made available. I can't do a lot until people finish OCR-ing it. > Nothing personal but your code should not "break" on any data that is sent > to it. PGP 2.6.x doen't have a problem with these signatures it just > returns a error code and goes on it's way. Precisely; it returns an error and drops out. It *does not* output the signed message to stdout as it would do if it were an RSA-signed message, so it just looks like an empty message. At the moment I have better things to do, but I guess if people are going to use non-standard message formats they don't want us to read what they write anyway. Mark

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Re: How did these people find our list? (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 04:05:42 +0000 (GMT) > From: jonathon <grafolog(a)netcom.com> > Subject: Re: How did these people find our list? > The State of Oregon << The only state to have been bombed by > a foreign country. >> during World War Two. Brrrrppppp. Thank you for playing. Your consolation prize is a big whoopie cushion. Alaska was not only bombed by a foreign country (ie Japan) but it was the only continental US location to actualy be invaded. Do a search on Kiska and Dutch Harbor on Yahoo.... Hawaii was also bombed and last time I checked it was part of the US, the same goes for Wake Is., Midway Is., and Phillipines. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http:// www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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