December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Remailer latencies (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: Remailer latencies (fwd) > Date: Sat, 27 Sep 97 10:17:52 -0400 > From: "Brian B. Riley" <brianbr(a)together.net> > I am incline to think that as the traffic goes up the need to > generate 'n' mails for each 'real' inbound/outbound goes down. In effect as you get more popular your traffic becomes easier to track. I don't think I would use a remailer that advertised this 'feature'. Traffic analysis is something that is easily automated so the measure of success (to my mind anyway) is what sort of resources would a mallet need to get a solution versus the time frame that solution might we relevant. Admittedly this is a very sloppy area of remailers, I am not aware of any analysis with anon. remailers in mind. If anyone does know of a source please cough it up... ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there | | be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves. | | | | -Alan Greenspan- | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http:// www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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cypherpunks in my doctoral research
by David J. Phillips 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I've been writing a doctoral dissertation in which cypherpunks play a prominent role. The research focuses on the negotiations by which standards of identification are incorporated into new consumer payment systems. In particular, I am looking at how issues of privacy, anonymity, and identification are woven into public discussions of these systems. I have identified three systems (Ecash, Mondex, and Citibank's EMS), and I've analyzed talk about these systems in three sites - press articles, the U.S. House of Representatives, and the cypherpunks mailing list. If you're interested, I'd appreciate any comments on this work. I've posted a draft of the cypherpunks section on my web site: <http://www.asc.upenn.edu/USR/sphill/punks.htm>. I'm especially interested in knowing if you believe that my analysis is accurate and complete, and if you believe its publication might effect cypherpunks themselves, or the social and political projects which cypherpunks share. I would like to add one caveat. I had to limit my analysis to a particular time period. Neither the discussion, nor the list, nor the entity of cypherpunks is the same now as then. Please bear this in mind as you read. And please forward this note to anyone who may be interested, but is no longer part of the cypherpunks list. Thanks. David J. Phillips Annenberg School for Communication University of Pennsylvania

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Re: Remailers and ecash
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Steve Schear wrote: >At 3:18 AM -0400 9/27/97, Anonymous (sic) wrote: >>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> >>Just out of a curiousity, why is it that no remailers accept ecash? >>(This is not a jibe at remailer operators or authors of remailer >>software. I am really curious if this is a "didn't get to it yet" >>sort of thing, or if there's something hard about it.) > >One item which has been missing is an accessible API. (The Digicash >merchant software is, I believe, designed for online use only.) This >need is about to be fulfilled. Digicash has software for Unix platforms which one could very easily call from a Perl script. Sure, it wouldn't be pretty, it wouldn't be ideal, but it would work and should be easy to incorporate into many of the remailers. (I think.) Monty Cantsin Editor in Chief Smile Magazine http://www.neoism.org/squares/smile_index.html http://www.neoism.org/squares/cantsin_10.html -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNC02bJaWtjSmRH/5AQEgjgf+MoJMWJpMfStaIvIzGZOhv9NQRPzAWU/V USmABIwZ4BmkhL+gC7urltqzK9ILgNUPXvxtOTZXJGXm7LX8NApT6P6vvyNC4OZP jYqQUFZo3eEhQdKiW9xVaq7l7ZovaR7uNfxUnV5bzniXs1dIQJQ1hPVMU8+gW+2D g49nyGxS0gA4CFZFDDepd7fhDYiZgzOi2fVha+Vtz0fJZ4Lx9LoVb+Ce/bijGmkU OHkgCqYm3UwZlLZp7FY4pDt0r/7QdYcAayhCAFgDiCxE5o2c+WN3O0a9cqNHuFhx tBycQBfYewLNHn7FshBZF1pMm7FMp01i07y5AVogCleSqZdH8gJrEg== =si/v -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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No Subject
by Martin Minow 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>From <http://www.scripting.com/davenet/stories/BillGatesonPrivacy.html> (an e-mail from Bill Gates to Dave Winer) Bill Gates on Privacy >From Bill Gates, billg(a)microsoft.com: Since I last sent you email on this topic things have gotten a lot worse. The FBI and the Administration have bills in both the Congress and the Senate that would force all software sold in the United State by 1999 to allow the government to get at the keys without the user knowing. Besides the issues of this making it very difficult for us to sell software to countries like Germany and Canada who want strong encryption without any backdoor and the issue of how to have the old software work with the new, there is a huge issue of privacy here. The backdoors that the government is requiring would create a huge security hole that could be misused. I am spending a lot of time on this - calling Congressman and Senators. However the FBI and the administration are suggesting that restricting the software industry is key to fighting criminals. Of course they don't say that criminals will still find it very easy to pre-encrypt the information they send. For some reason the public isn't hearing about this issue at all. I can't believe there isn't more of an outcry. When it went from an export restriction to a restriction on sofware in the US there should have been a lot of headlines.

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RETURN OF THE BUFFALO -AMERINDIAN GREENWIND
by United Eco-action Fund 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dear Friend, VISIT US AT <http://www.uneco.org>. YOU'LL FEEL AT HOME. In the time it takes to enjoy a lark's happy song you'll know how to cross mighty waters to the land of well being and a bright future. The earth is generous, but wounded. She cries out for help. We must rush to heal her, or, as sure as the eagle flies, death will descend upon us silently as snow in winter. Set aside distractions. Take time now. Open your heart. THE BUFFALO ARE COMING! Put your ear to the earth. Listen carefully. Can you hear the mighty roar of ten million hooves? The buffalo are coming, flattening the tall prairie grass. Where empty land was lying fallow, rich grass grows again and the great American bison are returning. United Eco-action seeks to buy land to reunite the scattered tribes of the Great Plains through a vast "Wild Bison Preserve." Help us give back some of what was unjustly taken in dishonorable breach of many treaties from the American Indian. Help us buy back buffalo land to restore American Indian culture. Land where Tatanka (the buffalo) may roam proud and free once again. Read on, dear friend. There is much in all this for your happiness in the joy of restoring a safe future for all Americans. PRINCESS DIANA AND MOTHER TERESA DID NOT DIE IN VAIN-- A MEMORIAL The recent death of two world-beloved women bowed much of humanity for a few days with emotions before the sublime greatness of charity and its fragrance of love as it protects life and peace. The futile agitation of daily life ceased briefly. Many glimpsed the reality of inevitable death. Aware of the eternity of the end, some focused on life and joy with a renewed sense of proportions. Seeking true values. Tasting the glory of being alive. Rejecting aimless consumerism. Realists perhaps understood for the first time that love--love alone--justifies the gift of life and that rebirth (however one may understand it) is gained by renouncing selfishness and embracing the happiness of generosity. REACHING OUT TO YOU WITH OPEN ARMS In this spirit United Eco-action Fund (UEF) reaches out to you, our friend, brother or sister, young or old, man or woman, rich or poor, to give to you and to ask from you. We all belong to the same family living on one small and fragile planet. "For the first time in my life I saw the horizon as a curved line. It was accentuated by a thin seam of dark blue light - our atmosphere. Obviously, this was not the ocean of air I had been told it was so many times in my life. I was terrified by its fragile appearance." Ulf Merhold, German astronaut UNITED ECO-ACTION'S TASK DEFINED Grassroots groups initiate most of the major changes to stop environmental degradation worldwide. People educating people, people acting on the belief that clean water, clean air, and a safe environment are their inalienable right. From them the greenfire has spread to occupy the minds and influence the policies of people in government. In the early 1900's, Gifford Pinchot, U.S. Secretary of Agriculture under Theodore Roosevelt, wrote: "The central thing for which Conservation stands is to make this country the best possible place to live in, both for us and for our descendants...Conservation is the most democratic movement this country has known for a generation. It holds that people have not only the right, but the duty to control the use of natural resources, which are the great sources of prosperity. And it regards absorption of these resources by special interests...as a moral wrong. Conservation is the application of common-sense to common problems for the common good." The Fight for Conservation THE SAME TASK DEFINED BY FIRST AMERICANS "We did not inherit the earth from our parents. We are borrowing it from our children." Native American saying Like smoke signals, e-mail is, at best, but a limited exchange between distant members of one tribe. Sometimes--just sometimes--a few words can lure our senses into sudden awareness. WHAT EVERYONE TODAY NEEDS TO KNOW ° The relationship between humanity and the earth is now in a state of rapidly increasing disequilibrium, approaching a critical point. This fact is no longer seriously open to dispute. Misinformation sold by vested interests is forever dispelled by visible events themselves. ° Less than 3% of the earth's water is fresh water, and only a shrinking .01% of that is clean drinkable water--75% of which is used for irrigation. What is left must supply 5.5 billion people. ° Only 5% of America's original forests remain standing. ° "The cutting of primeval forest and other disasters, fueled by demands of growing human populations, are the overriding threat to biological diversity everywhere. But the data that led to this conclusion, coming mainly from vertebrates and plants, understate the case...Patches of rain forest and coral reef harbor tens of thousands of species, even after they have declined to a remnant of the original wilderness. But when the entire habitat is destroyed, almost all of the species are destroyed. Not just eagles and pandas disappear but also the smallest, still unclassified invertebrates, algae, and fungi, the invisible players that make up the foundation of the ecosystem." Edward O. Wilson, The Diversity of Life. ° Quarrying of coral, over fishing, and silting from tropical deforestation have caused extensive damage to almost 50% of earth's coral reefs. ° Whether in the tropics or temperate zones, forests represent the single most important stabilizing feature of the earth's land surface, and they cushion us from the worst effects --particularly those associated with global warming--of the environmental crisis. ° If destruction of the rain forest continues at the present rate, by the year 2022 50% of the remaining rain forest will be gone. ° The Aral Sea, once the world's fourth largest inland sea, was destroyed by dams and its 25,000 tons annual fish harvest vanished with it. ° Misplanned California urban sprawl destroyed Owens Lake into an alkaline dustbowl and now threatens destruction of one of the most remarkable desert eco-systems: Mono Lake. Since 1941 Mono's level has dropped 41 feet; its shoreline is shrinking; its salts concentrating; its rich and delicate ecosystems failing. ° The redwood forests once covered an area nearly a 1000 miles long and 100 miles deep on the Pacific Coast. Less than 3% is left, and they are still being cut. ° The Rhine is the drinking water supply for 20,000,000 people, but on its shores 20% of the world's chemicals are produced, making it the dirtiest river in Europe. ° 50% of Europe's remaining forests are dying. ° In 1983 29% of Quebec maple trees were affected by acid rain. By 1986 the figure was 80%. Maple syrup may soon be just a memory. ° The last gentle manatee in Florida are becoming extinct because of habitat loss and propeller kills. ° Up to 50,000 northern seals are killed each year by entanglement with plastic fishnets fragments and plastic debris. ° Vast acreages of monoculture doused with tons of inorganic fertilizers and pesticides are not sustainable. Chemical agriculture mines the soil and poisons groundwater. ° The National Academy of Science, in a report on alternative agriculture, concluded that farms planted with diverse crops can, with little or no chemicals, be as productive and more profitable than farms dependent on chemical pesticides and inorganic fertilizers. Farmers who started thinking for themselves find it very simple. ° "Cancer circles"--regions with abnormally high incidences of the disease--are multiplying in America. Cancer kills 1 in 4. ° Waterborne disease kills 25,000,000 people annually, most of them children. ° Many river dams, financed by The World Bank, are ecological disasters. ° Of the 119 known pure pharmaceutical compounds used somewhere in the world, 88 were discovered through leads from traditional medicine. The knowledge of all the world's indigenous cultures, if gathered and catalogued, would constitute a library of Alexandrian proportions. ° "About four years ago...my older daughter Whitney was very ill with cancer. She literally came within a few days of death. She is here today, and she is a beautiful, fourteen-year-old, healthy, completely cured young lady. Why? The drug that saved her life was derived from a plant called the rosy periwinkle...a plant native to the island country of Madagascar. The irony of this story is that 90% of the forest area of Madagascar has been destroyed. 100% of all native habitat of the rosy periwinkle is gone forever." Jay D. Hair, president, National Wildlife Federation. For pertinent literature on many other ecological issues, visit UEF's Bookstore: <http://www.uneco.org/bookstore.html> SOLUTIONS "The battle we have fought, and are still fighting is a part of the eternal conflict between right and wrong..." John Muir We must triple the pace of environmental protection to prevent catastrophic events. Misinformation disseminated by vested interests, ignorance, and apathy are our greatest enemies. The task is so immense that everyone is duty-bound to help with money, time, or both. "If nothing else can unite us, the ecological crisis will." Joseph Campbell The dimensions of this planetary emergency are truly frightening. We are at the turning point. To leave the problem to the next generation would be criminal. We must not condemn posterity to irretrievable desolation and suffering. Everyone must learn the facts ASAP so that united we can restore balance. REFUTING A THEOLOGICAL ERROR THE JUDEO-CHRISTIAN BIBLE DOES NOT ISSUE A LICENSE TO DESTROY THE EARTH; "DOMINION" OF GOD'S CREATION MEANS RESPONSIBLE STEWARDSHIP. The duty to care for the earth is rooted in the fundamental relationship between God, creation, and humankind. In the Book of Genesis, Judaism first taught that after God created the earth, He "saw that it was good." In the Twenty-fourth Psalm, we learn that "the earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof." How can one glorify the Creator while heaping contempt on the creation? THE BIBLE SHOWS GOD'S CONCERN FOR BIODIVERSITY "But with thee I will establish my covenant... of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female. Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive" Genesis 6:18-20. Therefore, all Christians are duty-bound to actively help restore God's creation. WHERE THERE IS POVERTY, LAND DEGRADATION FOLLOWS, CAUSING MORE POVERTY--A VICIOUS CYCLE Poverty and land degradation are curable in a well-governed technological world. Poverty can and must be eliminated, while greed must be restrained and limited. We are all responsible and in debt to the earth for every molecule of our being and for all our possessions. Therefore, the least we must do is to invest 10% of our time, income, and assets to saving what is left and restoring what we have seriously damaged. America, being the world's largest consumer, must be first to turn around and lead the planet into environmental balance and a sustainable economy. If people everywhere consumed as much as the U.S. and Japan do, the planet could support only an additional 200,000,000. UNITED ECO-ACTION FUND PROGRAMS I. CLEVELAND NATIONAL FOREST CONSERVATION FUND: protecting one of the 18 most threatened regions on the planet where unique specie are in greatest danger of extinction from human activity ( see UEF website at <http://www.uneco.org/cleveland_national_forest.html> ) In the first decade of this century President Theodore Roosevelt mandated protection of Southern California's wilderness by establishing the 2 million-acre Cleveland National Forest. Since then government allowed 2/3 of this unique ecosystem to be quietly taken by invasive development. The Cleveland Forest still shelters one of America's greatest diversity of wildlife. Majestic stands of cedar and fir bordering fragrant green meadows where scented multi-colored wildflowers bloom in spring and where in autumn live oak set up a blaze of color that flickers over a backdrop of pines. Foxes bark and deer silently cross fields half hidden in the morning mist. Golden eagles soar in the blue sky over the bountiful home of mountain lions. It and other western forests must be saved. United Eco-action Fund is working to implement the 1993 California voter mandate to protect this spectacular natural resource. UEF seeks acquisition of privately owned wildlife habitat, and, where possible, the reopening of migration corridors. II. RETURN OF THE BUFFALO: re-establishing the bison to the Great Plains ( visit <http://www.uneco.org/return_of_the_bison.html> ) The National Parks do not suffice as a means of perpetuating the larger carnivores. The reasons for this are clear...The most feasible way to enlarge the area available for our wilderness fauna is for the wilder parts of the National Forests, which usually surround the Parks, to function as parks in respect to threatened species. Aldo Leopold, A Sand Country Almanac A program seeking international funding to create large wildlife preserves in Montana and Dakotas under Amerindian management to shelter and increase the last free buffalo herd being slaughtered by Montana ranchers as the animals migrate out of their Yellowstone Park shelter to escape loud snowmobile traffic. III. PRINCESS DIANA-MOTHER TERESA MEMORIAL PROGRAM: formerly called "The Good Neighbor Program" ( go to: <http://www.uneco.org/Princess_Diana-Mother_Tere.html> ) In honor of Princess Diana and saintly Mother Teresa, United Eco-action Fund has renamed its GOOD NEIGHBOR PROGRAM the "Princess Diana and Mother Teresa Memorial Program," so that the love of these great women may continue to produce miracles of generosity toward the poor far into the future and help us save many children and suffering families. The original program, dedicated to alleviating the abject poverty of many Mexican children who collect broken glass in disease ridden garbage dumps without medical coverage, is being expanded to reach out as far as human generosity and love will allow. AN OPEN APPEAL FOR YOUR HELP "In the end, we will conserve only what we love, we will love only what we understand, we will understand only what we are taught." Senegalese conservationist Baba Dioum Become part of United Eco-action Fund (UEF), an international grassroots organization, by contributing as a: FRIEND (any amount) SUPPORTER ($50) DONOR ($100) SPONSOR ($500) BENEFACTOR ($1000) PATRON (more than $1,000) A donation in any amount will award you a place on the "Roster of American Wilderness Heritage Guardians," to be published internationally over the Internet. All contributions are tax-deductible. To send donations, use any of the following methods: (1) CHECK: Make check to UNITED ECO-ACTION FUND. Include your name, address, (e-mail), and phone number. Mail check to: United Eco-action Fund, P.O. Box 156, Descanso, CA 91916. (2) CREDIT CARD: E-mail the following information to us at: <donation(a)uneco.org>. Credit Card: Visa Master Card (please indicate) Credit Card #: Expiration Date: Credit Card Statement Address and Zip Code: State the amount you authorize as a donation to United Eco-action Fund. The above is treated with absolute confidentiality. It is safer to use e-mail than the telephone. (3) BANK TRANSFER: Transfer funds from your bank into UEF's bank account at Bank of America, La Mesa Main Office, 5500 Grossmont Center Drive, La Mesa CA 91942, Account Number: 02310-10250. (4) CASH: If you send cash, please enclose a note stating amount and your address so we may send your tax deductible receipt. Mail to: United Eco-action Fund, P.O. Box 156, Descanso, CA 91916. You can also help further the programs of UEF by ordering books from our Internet Bookstore in association with Amazon.com. Our bookstore is located at <http://www.uneco.org/bookstore.html>. A percentage of price of all books ordered here will be donated to UDDERS. DEFENDERS OF WILDERNESS: "It does not suffice to have a few such societies [Sierra Club, Wilderness Society], nor can one be content that Congress has enacted a bill aimed at wilderness preservation... A militant minority of wilderness citizens must be on watch throughout the nation and vigilantly available for action." Aldo Leopold We are recruiting like-minded, dedicated individuals and groups to help implement our programs. To become a spokesmen and volunteer for United Eco-action Fund, please e-mail us at: <volunteers(a)uneco.org>. We urge you to call on others to join you in this important task. To be an active "Greenwind Friend" and earn an income by collaborating with UEF's international mission, e-mail your name, address, and phone to <income(a)uneco.org>. Visit <http://www.uneco.org> and learn more about the most important issue of our time. "This point is crucial: a choice to 'do nothing' in response to the mounting evidence is actually a choice to continue and even accelerate the reckless environmental destruction that is creating the catastrophe at hand. Vice-President AL Gore Heart Greetings, VIKTORIA VIDALI Executive Director United Eco-action Fund is a nonprofit, public benefit corporation whose primary mission is to protect wildlife habitat, to fund research, education, and to support programs that benefit the quality of human life by integrating diverse groups nationally and internationally. UEF is a member of the congressionally created National Forest Foundation and Theodore Roosevelt Association. Our extensive Internet site <http://www.uneco.org> displays the honorable roster of "American Wilderness Heritage Guardians," lists UEF's American and foreign advisors, the management team, and details our programs. Visit our Internet bookstore in association with the largest book retailer on earth, Amazon. com.

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Re: Why the White amendment is a good idea
by Jim Gillogly 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Declan wrote: > First, the NETcenter was sold to the Commerce cmte yesterday as a way to > perform successful cryptanalysis on enciphered documents. The rhetoric was > all about keeping codebreakers up to date with codemakers. To anyone with > a glimmering of a clue about modern cryptography, this is complete > bullshit. Industry lobbyists on Monday also tried to push this line at a > press conference; I called them on it and they said, no, I was wrong, this > center would let the FBI keep up with the times. Yeah right. While a cryppie center wouldn't help the FBI keep up with strong cryptography used well, they would find it very useful in dealing with weak cryptography and with strong cryptography used bozotically. The recent Denning and Baugh study on how much harm crypto has done to law enforcement investigations points this out strongly. They found that crypto has not in fact prevented successful investigation and prosecution. They did encounter crypto, and in each case they were either able to break it (because it's cheesy McCrypto Wordmaster kid crypto), or they were able to find the keywords or plaintext somewhere in the perp's house or computers. Until we have serious seamless apps, there will be plenty of chances for law enforcement to get at the plaintext one way or another. Do you use your super-4096-bit-RSA-key-international PGP under Windows? If so, do you disable and wipe your swap file? Do you use it under Linux? If so, do you even know where your swap file is? The FBI with a competent cryppie center would. Just because they couldn't break the good stuff doesn't mean they couldn't successfully support the vast majority of law enforcement investigations. Whether this means it should or shouldn't be implemented is another question -- perhaps it would serve as a spur to people to use their tools more sensibly, as well as giving the FBI something more useful to do than spending public money lobbying Congress. -- Jim Gillogly Mersday, 6 Winterfilth S.R. 1997, 18:45 12.19.4.9.14, 2 Ix 12 Chen, Fifth Lord of Night

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T-shirts (was Re: D.A.R.E.--Drugs Are Reality Enhancers)
by Sandy Harris 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> Many of you have seen my "D.A.R.E." t-shirt that I wear occasionally to Bay > Area parties and events. For those who haven't: > > > (in large red letters) D.A.R.E. > > I turned in my parents > and all I got was this > stupid t-shirt > ROFL! Burroughs suggested "Drug hysteria: just say no!" Anyone care to make some up with: Escrowed encryption: just say no!

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Re: Remailers and ecash
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >At 03:18 AM 9/27/97 -0400, Anonymous (Monty Cantsin) wrote: >>Just out of a curiousity, why is it that no remailers accept ecash? >> >>The brutally simple way to do this would be to generate an ecash >>certificate, made out to cash, and tack it at the beginning of a >>message which is then encrypted for the remailer. > >The answer to your question may be to first recast your questions and >ask why would someone want to attach ecash? I assume you are trying >to "pay" for the email you send. This goes against the general model >of the internet. We are solving a different problem. The reason I want to attach ecash is to get good reliable service and to encourage many other people to offer good high quality remailing services. Let's a remailer operator can make $200/month by handling messages at 25 cents each. (That's 800 messages a month, hardly overwhelming.) You might not go public on that much revenue, but you might use your desktop machine as a remailer. >Unlike the phone company, the net peers freely with no >interconnection charges, so inter lata charges do not have to be >tracked and collected. This allows for a flat rate pricing scheme. >For remailers, this flat rate is generally zero dollars, i.e. free. Free usually doesn't work very well, and it isn't working well now. Use of ecash in the remailer network means there is no tracking and collecting or a final bill. This would somewhat defeat the purpose of using remailers, would it not? >There are remailers of various types who offer services for a charge >of some sort. This is generally a flat rate fee, either per month, >or per year. Really? How does this work? (And which remailers offer these services?) If implemented naively, each message must carry some sort of identifier. Even if the owner of the account isn't known, all of his messages are easily linked. This is undesirable. A more sophisticated implementation would use something like blinded credentials. But, that's the functionality ecash provides anwyay, right now, this day, without any work. So why not leverage off it and take advantage of the payment features as well? >There is likely no desire to price on a per item basis. If there >were, I would think it would be in the millicent range of pricing. Given the existing infrastructure, per item pricing is the easiest to implement while retaining full anonymity. Digicash and Mark Twain Bank already did the hard work! They already have a bank set up! All we have to do is make use of it. As for millicent pricing, we'll see. Once things get rolling, the price should fall below a quarter. But it will have to be high enough to make running a remailer worth the trouble. There also seems to be an idea that there is some big R&D investment in adapting a remailer to use e-cash. There isn't. You have to open an account at Mark Twain Bank. You have to figure out how to call the Digicash executable from within a Perl script. (Since nobody has corrected me on this, I am becoming confident that it is really as easy as I think.) Why not try it? Worst case, you lose a little time. Best case, you get rich and the remailer network takes off. Here's another reason why this is important to cypherpunks. We would really like to see wider use of e-cash. It is a great product and it respects our privacy. The way ecash will catch on is that a small group of people will start using it regularly for services and trade within their loosely defined community. Once things start rolling, more people and services can be added. Once things catch on, they will snowball. The place to start is in this group with the remailers. Monty Cantsin Editor in Chief Smile Magazine http://www.neoism.org/squares/smile_index.html http://www.neoism.org/squares/cantsin_10.html -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNC1w2JaWtjSmRH/5AQEppQf+NeHEHtJhcGy3qov3yO4VHoDzzxAfHbkL VtSoww8x/+EDoEFGzXqKCN9z7IpLTLsT7402zorawWUaQsrvhfC8y1h7emCidEPz XF41pIG0RbXY2ht23CfRrh14c+u9SxUzqZg61WsSb3w9BceZuv5dPGha+eyIg7eU LyyIPzgISB4EdR5uijTPMTsQaYwbqW/3ieuWrCe1jrGyemgTtZCmYg3R+zKn/0kH Gwu/AYjkDPh7y66kTUfgtcdLZDV3rnCC1z/Nb/XN/9AMpt264XCTgS6hZ+WWFEoj Ep+RLV2OP6uGtrU9vD3lw7B72e5lJYkemWLwIz3u+Ak1cYmRll/Cuw== =8F9p -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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cypherpunks-e@htp.org list explodes! (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 12:27:04 -0700 > From: Bill Stewart <stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com> > Subject: cypherpunks-e(a)htp.org list explodes! > Well, I tried subscribing to cypherpunks-e(a)htp.org, the English-language > relative of cypherpunks-j. There may have been one or two independent > postings, > but almost everything there was just the main cypherpunks list, forwarded > and with archiving numbers stuck in the Subject: line. > That wasn't a very good idea; people who want to subscribe to cypherpunks > should do so directly, but if you do want to build a fourth list address > for cypherpunks, you can check with Igor Chudov and Lance Cottrell about > the software > that makes it work without looping. First, it was meant as another member of the cpunks distributed list. Second, I provided them with the necessary anti-loop information. Third, they were out because SSZ was out. It's a real pitty the other list operators don't put more effort into ensuring cross connections since the anti-loop process does seem to work. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there | | be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves. | | | | -Alan Greenspan- | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http:// www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Remailer Ecash Bounty
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- I, Monty Cantsin, will pay fifty dollars to the first operator of a remailer on Raph's list to get a machine up and running which accepts ecash as payment to forward a message. Offer expires October 27, 1997 C.E. Disputes are to be settled by Tim May. If Mr. May declines to participate, Monty Cantsin will decide. Monty Cantsin Editor in Chief Smile Magazine http://www.neoism.org/squares/smile_index.html http://www.neoism.org/squares/cantsin_10.html -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNC10kJaWtjSmRH/5AQEY5Af+PBBY0QU8ixNYgqIpWQkHEDf22lhVleaB JJ81Pe4TCllk3KJ0WU8+B7fVdt3oQEzaZLKobQqP6NJOfXai3dwxc5C4MPQe+YGw N6jQbcKetIwX7EUb2siKOq07W1hxVhYm6liYxeUHEBR8hWjCeUM1JiJ3IC3GALAi bJ0mDhkhEIugYkfBXl2mBm4VjQRPWSt8GxqhWDneyn4maJjmOs1lco1WvGuLC+GA fK1F9PnJIKZITzeAEjTB87H7LFxhy0eRuL+r9y8Fqw288bSkKC6aG//fTLOV7B8d MeIXu2UHa2HuB/L1MWmAVFGyKfoI0xJqeXeWCNmrLRlcp6GdCrQgig== =sNwa -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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