December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re:
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

<nobody(a)replay.com> wrote: >Moahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah >u STOOPID dickheads and fuckwads supporting >CUNTS like micro$oft or even working there. >FUCK YOU lousy cockroaches. I, the great >tormentor and terminator will stamp you >out and exterminate you like the pests you >are. >HaHaHaHaHaHa mothafuckaz. >You will all die and give way to a better >world, better people and better systems. >Long live Unix, Mac, Amiga and TERROR. You are confusing the rest of us with Paul Merrill <PHM(a)sprynet.com>. Please remedy this situation immediately. Some of us do not support the Legion of Idiots as he does.

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KRA on NAI/KRA
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Phil and Cabe, For your info. Response will be very welcome. John --------- Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 05:27:31 -0800 To: pgp-users(a)joshua.rivertown.net, cryptography(a)c2.net From: Dave Del Torto <ddt(a)lsd.com> Subject: KRA on ADK vs KR, NAI membership Cc: coderpunks(a)toad.com, ukcrypto(a)maillist.ox.ac.uk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Summary: (1) The Key Recovery Alliance will analyze the viability of PGP's ADK technology as an alternative to escrowing of keying material and intends to publish its position. (2) Network Associates IS a member of the KRA as of July 2, 1998. Note that date is ~6 months after NAI represented itself as having withdrawn. (3) Corporate contacts for KRA member-companies are not public information. I have also inquired about who the KRA contact person is at NAI. dave -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 6.0 Comment: Get interested in computers -- they're interested in YOU! iQA/AwUBNlgRApBN/qMowCmvEQLm7wCgx+7sBVgBQsXisQLJswx3w7a16Q0Anii3 XOzJzZxEMqd9YnMlz93U+iXX =eHxw -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ................................. cut here ................................. My Inquiry to the KRA: To: info(a)kra.org Subject: request for information -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hello, I have some questions about the KRA. 1. In your FAQ <http://www.kra.org/FAQS1209.html>, you state that one of the organization's goals is to: "Serve as a focal point for industry efforts to develop commercially acceptable solutions for recovery of encrypted information" This seems to allow that there may be valid encrypted _data_ recovery methods other than _key_ recovery using the KRA's "common key recovery block" (still under discussion). However, I'm not aware of the KRA's public position on the recovery of plaintext using cryptographically sound and ethically responsible alternatives to the escrowing of keys in organizational situations, e.g. PGP's Additional Decryption Key (ADK) mechanism. What is the KRA's public position on PGP's ADK? 2. A public debate has recently arisen because the KRA website's member roster indicates that Network Associates (NAI) is a member of the KRA. NAI representatives, however, have publicly contraindicated this. Can you clarify NAI's membership status in the KRA, specifically: A. On what date (if ever) did NAI apply for membership in the KRA? B. Is the KRA in possession of any evidence (letter, etc) to show that NAI was or is a member of the KRA? C. If NAI was a member of the KRA at any time, on what date did a corporate officer of NAI formally withdraw NAI from the KRA, if ever? D. Regarding KRA membership policy, if a company is not a member itself but acquires another company that is a KRA member, but, does this acquisition automatically confer membership status on the parent company, or is a formal request to "expand" the company's membership necessary? E. If NAI was not a member of the KRA at the time of its Trusted Information Systems (TIS) acquisition, did the KRA receive a request from any NAI representative to expand TIS's membership to all of NAI? 3. KRA member companies are listed with their web URLs, but no individual contact name/phone/email is provided for any of them. Can you supply a complete listing of the designated contacts (corporate representatives) at each of the KRA member organizations, should one want to discuss with them their respective companies' KR positions or proposals? For example, if, in fact, the KRA website is correct to list NAI as a member, then who is NAI's official KRA representative? Thank you in advance for your prompt clarification. dave ____________________________________________________________________________ Dave Del Torto +1.415.334.5533 CSO & VP Security Consulting <mailto:ddt@lsd.com> Level Seven Digital Labs PGP Key: <http://pgp.ai.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x28C029AF> Fingerprint: 9b29 031d 70de f566 e076 b108 904d fea3 28c0 29af / Size: 4096 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 6.0 iQA/AwUBNlUMapBN/qMowCmvEQKt8wCg0i6ZZj1a6aL/TrzM/jqv4wKBEnoAoK4e xkwtQCiBJDHuBUWFRzCRBA/K =fg+B -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ................................. cut here ................................. The KRA's prompt reply (signed by me to indicate what I received): -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 06:31:50 -0800 To: Dave Del Torto <ddt(a)lsd.com> From: Michael LoBue <LoBue(a)kra.org> Subject: Re: request for information Cc: Majdalany(a)kra.org, Bobbie(a)kra.org Mr. Del Torto, Thank you for your inquiry about a KRA member company. I am member of the Alliance's secretariat staff addressing their business and administrative needs. This puts me in a position to answer some of your questions directly. Others I will pass along to appropriate Alliance member representatives for response. About the KRA's public position on PGP's ADK, obviously it was not adequately addressed for your needs in the Alliance's existing materials. I will ask a more appropriate and knowledgeable spokesperson to respond to your questions and concerns. Concerning Network Associates membership in the KRA, in response to your question I have verified that our files contain an executed Membership Agreement for Network Associates (dated July 2, 1998), as well as a properly completed Application for Membership of that same date. As an aside, the KRA has retained our firm to manage their business and administrative affairs. Our business is solely the management of industry associations. Thus, we have no conflict of interest as our clients are the 'associations' themselves and not any of the individual member companies. For the management of our client associations (currently 4) we employ certain practice standards. One important practice area is the impartial recognition of membership. Simply put, we exercise no discretionary judgment about whether a company is a member or not. If a company completes the required steps to become a member (execute an agreement, complete an application and pay the appropriate dues) they become a member. In other words, membership is binary...complete all the steps --> become a member; omit any of these steps --> NOT a member. Ever since the the Alliance was formally constituted as a California nonprofit corporation (October 1997), rigorous application processes have been in place. It is true that a number of companies, including NAI I believe, were attending meetings under the name of the KRA during much of 1997. However, until the Alliance was formally constituted, involving membership agreements, applications and payment of dues, it's not entirely accurate to characterize those companies participating in 1997 as 'members' of the Alliance. Indeed, some of this current 'public debate' about NAI's relationship with the KRA goes back to their public statement that they 'withdrew' from the organization. The fact of the matter is that they simply did not choose to become an actual member at the time the organization was formally constituted. When it was reported that they withdrew, there was in fact no entity from which to withdraw. Regarding the listing of individual representatives from member companies, it is the Alliance's policy not to do this. For whatever it's worth, this is a standard practice of industry associations. I am passing your message along to the designated NAI representative and inviting him to respond. At the risk of stating the obvious, it is not uncommon for companies in any industry, especially hi-tech, to have multiple opinions within their management teams. And, to have these opinions expressed in public forums. It has been my experience that it is dangerous to infer corporate and product strategies from a companies membership in industry groups. Companies join industry associations for all manner of reasons, not all of which they share with the market. I'm not suggesting any thing other than the fact that our industry makes for extremely "complex business" and there's no reason to believe that this complexity of actions, strategies and motivations isn't going to appear in a company's involvement in industry associations. Sorry for the length of this reply. However, it's clear that there are a great many concerns behind your questions and I've tried to reach those concerns. I hope this response has been useful to you. Regards, Michael LoBue KRA Secretariat Staff --end KRA response-- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 6.0 iQA/AwUBNlWtuJBN/qMowCmvEQI6WACgv0CZt3KmzptfQxO/2FJ2aqAA/v8An1C6 +q4Uh8H0LuwMKpou5cVS14v6 =ssZt -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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by searchmaster80＠hotmail.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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by STUFFED MON NOV 23 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Looking for that Perfect Christmas Gift?
by egnarr＠rbc.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Question about general patents
by Vortexia 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I was wondering... what is the current law in the United States about patenting of software programs, and does anyone know where I can find out if there are any standard international laws about the patenting of software. I have products that I and the rest of my company have designed that we need patented, unfortunatly the South African patent act reads like this: (Republic of South Africa, Patents act no. 57 of 1978) Section 2.2.1: Anything which consists of a discovery; a scientific theory; a mathematical concept; a literary, dramatic, musical or artistic work or any other aesthetic creation, a scheme, rule or method for performing a mental act, playing a game or doing business, a program for a computer; or the presentation of information, is not regarded as an invention for the purposes of the Patents Act. If there is any other way to protect my software and my designs internationally, or under any international treaties etc, and anyone knows of such a way, please drop me an email, it would be much appreciated. Cheers Andrew Alston

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Re: Hey, what does he know?
by landon dyer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 08:03 AM 11/22/98, you wrote: >http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2168153,00.html well, no matter wh'appens, microsoft is going to come out of this smelling like a rose >"By the time the government's case is done, who knows how the industry will >look?" he said. "And furthermore, it could open the door to more government >regulation of the technology industry overall." putting on my favorite cryptoparanoia hat, over the next five years: o MS gets what it wants -- more regulation, forcing it to stop selling OSs with computers. instead, if you by an MS OS, you'll rent it annually. ["please, janet, don't throw me in that briar patch!"] to do this, MS has to get intel to put crypto hooks in the wintel architecture; microcode burned-in at the chip fab that prevents MS operating systems from running on other h/w o intel gets what it wants: no clones. if you want to run linux on your AMD K-10, feel free. if AMD wants to get in the game, they'll have to visit ft. meade o the government gets what it wants, because the crypto hooks in the wintel architecture allow KRAP to proceed without any pesky legislation -- just behind-doors agreements with MS and intel a more cynical person than me might note that sun's "java OS" that would run anywhere would be a *lot* more difficult to suborn at the chip level i haven't figured out how the communications infrastructure is going to be noodled. maybe it doesn't have to be. expect ipsec to die a long, slow death -- a delaying tactic, the best kind for the feds, because it prevents any sucessors from getting up a head of steam. [i don't know beans about the current status of ipsec] long about 2020 or so it'll be a federal offense to own an EPROM burner, a processor with re-flashed microcode, an unlicensed logic analyzer, or a copy of linux... :-) [stay tuned for a short story about the freedom fighters of 2025, hacking secure communications on copies of the last architectures known not to be compromised ("daddy, what's a PDP-10?"), running ITS on souped-up gigahertz pocket portables, getting packets through on covert channels involving the coat-tails of the (now ubiquitous) KRAP session key negotiations...] -landon [re-lurking]

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Oh, a warning about playing with glass & charge....
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

If you do decide to play with charges stored on glass plates wear eye protection because every once in a while the mechanical stress is more than the glass can take and it will shatter. One way you can do this is to go to your local video arcade and purchase one of the glass sheets they use to cover their pinball machines. Then carry that glass plate by the edge in your hand as you scuff your feet across a nylon pile carpet (again wear safety glasses). The result about 1 out of 100 times, or if you've got lots of patience and can afford hours to scuff feet on carpet, is that the glass plate will shatter with a report about equivalent to a .22. Anyone watching should also wear eye protection as the shards can go 20ft. or moe. It's best if you do this on a cold dry day. ____________________________________________________________________ Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want the right answers. Scully (X-Files) The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: Oh, a warning about playing with glass & charge.... (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 10:05:41 -0800 > From: Tim May <tcmay(a)got.net> > Subject: Re: Oh, a warning about playing with glass & charge.... > And when you do your "...and then take away one of the copper plates" > experiment, you'll find that force is needed. Force times distance is > energy. The energy to pull one of the plates away equals the 0.5CV^2 energy > no longer stored in the capacitor. This is true ONLY if the dielectric doesn't touch either plate and is simply used to increase the storage capability (via Gauss' Law) of the capacitor over an air gap type of the same physical structure. The reason you have this force is the induced charge on the surface of the dielectric and the electrostatic attraction this causes with the charge on the plate. If the plate ACTUALY TOUCHES there is NO INDUCED CHARGE via Gauss's Law, it's a REAL charge stored on the surface of the insulating dielectric and the plate remains NEUTRALY charged. Why is there no induced charged? Because as you place charge on the conducting plate it induces a charge via Gauss' Law on the dielctric. Since the metal has outer orbital electrons available (which an insulator doesn't) the charge in the plate gets transported to the surface of the insulator and bonds there (remember unlike charges attract) with the induced charge. Why does the charge storage increase because of the dielectric? The electrical moment of the atoms is greater than that of the air. This is another reason the charge once deposited on the dielectric surface will stay there when the plate is removed. If you go back and look at the examples in your physics books that your basing your position on you'll find that in EVERY case there is an air gap between the plates and the dielectric. Remove the air gap and the behaviour of the charge and hence it's explanation changes accordingly. > The energy stored is not stored either on the plate or on the insulator. It > is in the electric field. Q: Where does the electric field come from Tim? A: The charges (ie electrons and protons) that are sitting on the surface of the dielectric (where the di- comes from). The electric field strength is a measure of the wavelength of the photons those two contrary sets of particles are bouncing back and forth between themselves. Q: Explain why the charge sitting on the surface of that dielectric will stay on the metal plate when the metal plate is removed. The metal plate is a conductor so as it is removed it effectively carries the charge of the part of the dielectric that it still retains contact with. Why would that e- choose to move TOWARD a ne- charge when it's sitting there with an opposite charge already in a minimum energy configuration? A: It won't. To do so violates the minimal energy requirements of the system as well as the standard behaviour of charges (ie like repel, opposite attract). Another experiment.... Try removing the metal foil when there is a charge and when there isn't. You won't find an appreciable difference. As to the energy required to remove the foil, yes force times distance is energy and it's the energy requisite to overcome the inertia of the metal foil. There is also a small additional force caused by Gauss' Law because the the distance between the e- (for example) stored on the dielectric and the metal plate will form a 'virtual' charge on the surface of the plate. However, since the plate itself is neutral (by definition) there will be a contrary charge on the opposite side. Hence, you won't loose a single coulomb of charge to the metal plate. You can check this by using either an electronic charge meter (1-800-OMEGA if you're interested) or you can use a gold leaf electrometer. If the charge varies as Tim claims then the angle between the leaves should change (ie get smaller). It won't. As to the force, the maximal force will occur when the plate is removed as a single piece perpendicular to the surface of the dielectric. If you roll or peel it off it will for all intents and purposes come free effortlessy because you won't have to fight the electrostatic force. -------------------------------------- < Cu + ------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------- < Cu - ------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------- < Cu + ------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------- < Cu - NOTE: there is NO air gap between the glass and the Cu sheeting. I use normal old cinter blocks to press them together as tightly as I can. Another experinment: Build the stack as shown above and remove each later one at at time with and without charge. Note the behaviour of the metal plate. It will tend to go with the glass plate that is being removed. Because of induced charges via Gauss' Law the foil will tend to go with the glass plate as it's removed. --------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------- Cu + --------------------------------------------- As the top plate is removed the air gap will force a virtual charge to build up on the surface of the foil. As a consequence an opposite and equal charge will build up on the other side of the foil and it will be + and in opposition to the + charge already sitting on the bottem glass plate. The induced charge on the top of the Cu will be - and will be attracted to the + charge on the bottem of the top plate. This of course assumes you're using very thin foil. If it's very thick at all you won't see this because of gravity. I tend to use very heavy foil so that I don't get shocks from these various induced fields when I'm handling the plates. Be sure to use heavy rubber gloves. Rubbermaid kitchen gloves intended for industrial washing are sufficient unless you're going to use a high voltage and charge. Anybody who wants to understand the theory (despite Tim's claims to the contrary) is welcome to check out: Physics Jay Orear ISBN 0-02-389460-1 Chpt. 16, Electrostatics pp. 308 - 338 in particular, pp. 327, 16-6 Dielectrics ____________________________________________________________________ Technology cannot make us other than what we are. James P. Hogan The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Goldbach's Conjecture - the various definitions
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Now before somebody gets a bee in their bonnet.... Yes, the VNR has a typo in respect to the '6', it should be >2. As to the various other definitions that folks have been submitting. I'm not real sure what their exact point is since it's agreed by all that it's: ...all even numbers greater than 2..., and Goldbach believed it had to be three prime factors while Fermat pointed out it could always be 2. As to the two defintions that accredit the reduction from 3 to 2 to Goldbach while leaving Fermat out of the picture fail to explain why Fermat's point is called Fermat's in the first place. ____________________________________________________________________ Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want the right answers. Scully (X-Files) The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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