December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Forwarded mail...
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Jim Choate wrote: >> Fortunately some of these "good" lawyers already exist at the Institute for >> Justice. Basically, they are a libertarian version of the ACLU. They've >> accomplished some good things and deserve the support (read $$$) of >> freedom-minded individuals everywhere. (note: I'm not connected with them >> in any way; just letting the cypherpunk community know about an organization >> in sync with our views) >> >> "If you seek a courtroom champion for individual liberty, free market >> solutions, and limited government, look only as far as the Institute >> for Justice. When politicians pass sweepingly intrusive laws and >> bureaucrats build their empires of paperwork and power, only the >> Institute for Justice brings them to account in court." >> -- http://www.InstituteforJustice.org/ > >Thanks, I'll check them out as I am unaware of their position. I should add that they haven't done anything in the field of cryptographic or technology issues, but have focused most of their efforts on protecting small entrepreneurs from overly zealous government agencies, particularly on the local level. One item I found of particular interest was a report they published in July 1996 about the restrictive barriers New York City has erected to prevent entrepreneurship (i.e., expensive/restrictive licensing fees, tough penalties for doing business without the required permits, etc.). An earlier post on this list referred to NYC as a cesspool of socialism. There is truth to this statement. Socialist politicians tend to punish those who help themselves, all for the public good of course. [snip] >> Bill Benson has done some extensive research (his book is called The Law >> That Never Was) regarding the 16th Amendment (the so-called Income Tax >> Amendment) and how it was ratified. According to the information he has >> uncovered through exhaustive research in D.C. and all of the state capitals >> of the then 48 states, the 16th Amendment was never ratified by 3/4ths of >> the states. (see http://www.trustclarks.com/theman.html for more info) >> >> Friends of mine have spoken to Mr. Benson about this, and he says that the >> courts won't touch it with a ten foot pole. He even sells a package (or at >> least he was selling it back in 1995) of legal information about the >> non-ratification of the 16th that can be used as a defense in an income tax >> case. According to Mr. Benson (in 1995), each of the cases was dropped when >> the defense made it clear they were going to argue their defense based on >> this point. >> >> I understand that folks in the "patriot" movement have tried to take this to >> the Supreme Court without success. The Court refused to hear it. >> >> Assuming Mr. Benson's research is accurate and legitimate, the 16th didn't >> even come close to being ratified and is truly a Law That Never Was. Think >> about that next April 15th...the IRS's "lawful" authority is based upon a >> legal fiction. That's why it's called >voluntary< compliance. > >Actualy, his research is one of the reasons that I am so interested in an >actual lawsuit. > >What if somebody were to go for several years with no contact at all with >the IRS, and no intention of making contact. Then when approached that >person makes enough noise to guarantee that they will be going to court. Funny you should mention this. A few folks have this very intention. :-) >What would it then take to bush-whack the beggars? What is the absolute last >point that your defence must be revealed prior to your presenting your case >to the jury? I'm not following the wording of this last question. Could you clarify? > The reason I use the first person is because to me it seems >critical that no lawyer is actualy used in the defence. As I understand it, >and I ain't no lawyer, there are some actions that a defendent may do if >representing themselves that lawyers are prohibited from doing. Among them >is stating the obvious fact, if the jurors don't believe the law is just >they may refuse to find for that reason. If the Constitution and the actual >record of votes in concert with the general feeling of excess regarding this >matter doesn't prove the case, what will? That's exactly the point. And that, I believe, is why the Supreme Court -- or any court for that matter -- will not go near this issue. It is the pivotal point that would collapse the whole house of cards that is the Income Tax. The feds have a huge vested interest in keeping the system going as long as they can (Y2K bugs and all) and this issue is a veritable hornets' nest. Nerthus p.s. For those of you keeping tabs on nyms, this is the last time I will include my public key in the body of my email. - -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 mQENAzRc0lEDFQEIALF2JX7RgDLC6nnSa7BmcczGumTRxhXx5mHoqPcGY95VGAVD 49iN/+59BBrHKxOU5JX5F9kWEsBG92KbOdB3XGCsub7AYmCl+iMrG+h+vJl9qCyc 134sq7WNfInA9TxiQ28/DldHj++gDeQJr9BvUU8Ez2Iu70uW5T7rlHFyBUWQBh3P 2dB/Q9A/dixhAzNTaeTuVH4TunoyDN6OrRrSTdZhsPs8dLVLLeqKC3qM28wLX5Mt qQCUb/pRb9TR9ygwaznAIdqSJ1qc/xqlQY6U0Vh6YVOaId+MQwzsq1ZRPlW0kYSS wgka2WXELH5ZpQLmCppM1pdkHhm54VbBl7TmNwkABRG0I05lcnRodXMgPGN5cGhl cnB1bmtzQGN5YmVycGFzcy5uZXQ+iQEVAwUQNFzSUeFWwZe05jcJAQFxVQf/WUSH ltCrUpoQwQ9oTGCJiRycTQqUzDuqaqR55xgyz8W5mARixBigd/sL63EoBlQmyHR3 NIgwIW3I8hcPfUlXi84hsZ+89/HVW3CoMk2g6692UEoKHUX6bMkeAi85hIfJVhFj EONhx3xFmdOZqkEbdFm81J/0JJIhtAe0Ut2DPu4B49yjO7NBTg97QWwO6ZymE09v BUv5esuvdxFbmn8qfPHdurs+MrvoKbhZIA8Xz03eTS1auT8pNvdEO4EDaac0njZ4 5wAbAeC79AqztS75GpT7cf0jZcYJPwtW8LPXj7SQCMimseZ7/2OxNPditI9e58CI EL/Dl0D9qn1NRPiVwA== =8W8j - -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNF0knuFWwZe05jcJAQH8WAf/e/BA8ysXWf1xrxJKiNPP8oyEDHpeFxZQ LWgW/kgfDmh1Y/Tfjw0i5nnnImlXfEcX5nmL8H+HezxBxKMN2O33PftHAPYghHrI y0hSgZVmA2VOMy4Dtv0umT19RarennPVHrGDyCi2zmNF9+5v6b81CYWLEBNMYx9V kaVOBCEt0FRdDFug1FwNRHJ+gHQjbFCVCMRF2v/0AF5r9uDPzNtCo3JP6tnllcqX jSf6MKa3Kxw17c+Je+TuLwHgltvULt3KZBrweJqslKKbY24Qw/PSPPHczvL8ieI1 uknK9KTVl6OJLvaGyI6bpFFgFoPxTpF+JJkzUR1GnlLN5gUwuQ6NKw== =osod -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

1 0

SynCrypt: the new PGP?
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Anybody heard of syncrypt? www.syncrypt.com It is like pgp but has lots of cool features. File wiping, group encryption, automatic encryption of files put in certain directories. Get this, hiding encrypted files in pictures! Automatically. It pulls them back out again too. Plus it has an interesting "20 questions" method for backing up your passphrase. If you forget your passphrase you have to answer 25 of 27 questions like "who was your favorite teacher" to get it back. Bruce Schneier is working with them, so they should have good crypto. It has blowfish, des and triple des, and idea. The keys are el gamal. Problem is the freeware is crippled to 10 encryptions (unlimited decryptions). $50 for full functions. Is this the new pgp? No gak or even cak in sight. SynMonger

3 2

Business Loans For You
by loans＠xitau.de 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Do you need to increase profits in your business? Do you need venture capital to get you there? Are you frustrated with your bank turning you down for the capital your business needs to grow? Be frustrated no more. Zion Worldwide can put you in touch with hundreds of offshore investors waiting to invest in a viable business just like yours. What Is An Offshore Investor? An offshore investor may be an offshore bank or a group of offshore lenders looking to invest in and to lend money to viable business enterprises both in the United States and elsewhere around the world. Why Not My Own Bank? U.S. federal banking law permits American banks to tie up a lot of their money in overhead expenses and advertising costs. Which means that American banks have less money to lend out to their customers (the ones who gave the banks their money in the first place!). Offshore banks, on the other hand, are required by offshore banking rules and regulations to lend more of their customer's money to, you guessed it, their customers. And groups of offshore lenders (often referred to as 'conglomerates'), are not necessarily restricted to the number or type of businesses that they can invest in, as long as these businesses are viable and show potential for future growth and profit. How Do I Take Advantage Of These Offshore Lending Opportunities? Zion Worldwide works with literally dozens and dozens of offshore banks and conglomerates across the world to put American businesses in touch with reputable offshore lenders. By submitting an offshore loan application to Zion Worldwide, your businesss automatically becomes eligible for the following types of offshore funding: Venture Capital Loans, Signature Loans, Equipment Leasing, Cash Grants, Self Liquidating Loans and a $25,000 Line of Offshore Credit, as well as offshore corporate credit cards. How Do I Apply And How Much Does It Cost? To apply simply write to: Zion Worldwide 5015 W. Sahara Ave., Suite 125, Las Vegas, NV, 89102. ..and ask for an offshore loan application. There is a non-refundable application fee of $200US payable to Zion Worldwide via money order, cashier's check, Visa or Mastercard. Why The $200 Fee? When you make application for offshore lending opportunities, Zion Worldwide literally sends your company's loan application to several major funding institutions around the globe. The $200US application fee assists our organization to cover the costs of shipping your loan application documents around the world. How Does Zion Worldwide Make Its Money? When your company's loan application arrives back to our office, Zion Worldwide receives a brokerage fee from our offshore lenders for finding them viable businesses to invest in. Can I Apply? Any viable business in the US or abroad may make application to Zion Worldwide in order to receive serious consideration from Zion's offshore lenders. Is It Hard To Apply? Absolutely not. Simply prepare to provide your company's past earnings as well as future earnings potential, as well as some documented business plan and, of course, some basic business details (e.g. your company's name, address, phone, fax etc.) and you're set. In fact, we want you to succeed in securing your loan, because when you succeed, we succeed. Why Is Zion Worldwide Located In Las Vegas? Nevada is America's last haven for judgment proof corporations (better than Delaware, better than Wyoming). Zion Worldwide strives to take full advantage of all of the incorporation benefits that the State of Nevada provides. What's The Catch? Sometimes interest rates on offshore loans are higher than interests rates on similar loans in the United States. However, apply for an offshore loan, then immediately turn around and expand your business with it, and of course, enjoy the increased profits your business generates, repay your offshore loan early, and the interest charged to you on your offshore loan will total no more than the interest on a loan you can (or can't) get in the US. AnyThing Else? Nope, except 'Apply Today'

1 0

No Subject
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

After seeing the intents of PGP Inc. with the release of their new PGP that breaks the old free versions, I have all but written them off as anything but the Enemy, and am waiting for a public reply on the list by Tim May to make it official. But now what? Please someone answer my questions about PGP - it appears that the 5.x versions are not compatible with the 2.x versions which came previous. Is this so? Also, the direction they seem to be heading is in providing more and more non-free GAKked product. But aren't the 2.x and 5.x versions freeware? If so, can't others - a group of individuals - take that source code and build off of that? Piss on these assholes and their licensing fees. It was inevitable, anyway. They are a corporation after all, and the corporations are not on "our" sides. I can see a scenario where government is impotent and destroyed within 10 years. What will remain and will be harder to eradicate are the corporations. I don't think we should rely on corporate software whenever possible, because it always comes with an ulterior motive. Is there an effort to maintain a version of PGP based on the free 2.x sources that is not affiliateed with the fuckwads at PGP Inc.? If not, is it high time some of us began such an effort?

6 5

Re: Clinton's Bigger Gun Ban
by Brian B. Riley 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 10/29/97 8:08 PM, Tim May (tcmay(a)got.net) passed this wisdom: >The Klinton Klan has already effectively banned imported SKS ammo >(7.62x29, as I recall, given that I don't have any rifles >chambering this popular round). > --- >Before you rush to correct me, I _meant_ to write "7.62x39" of >course. > >(A round used by the Chinese, Soviet, and East Bloc nations, and >roughly equivalent to the American M-16 round, known either as the >.223 or 5.56mm. The NATO "7.62" is in a longer case length. >7.62x54, as I recall. Known in America as .308. If I remember right they were able to do this because the only ammo available for 7.62x39 is from the Chinese and uses steel core projectiles not lead. Then when Olympic Arms came out with the cutdown weapon chambered for 7.62x39 it was able to be banned uder a regualtion banning "armor piercing ammo that could be used in a handgun." One thing though, 7.62x39 really could not be compared to the 5.56 NATO, its really more potent out to 2-300 meters; it is still a .30 cal vs 5.56 NATOs .223, but its far less potent than 7.62 NATO (7.62x54). The 7.62x39 was the standard caliber of ComBloc weapons for several decades, most specifically the AK-47, AKM-44 (sniper weapon), and SKS carbine. I think the Dragunov sniper system used a more potent cartridge. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQA/AwUBNFyiGMdZgC62U/gIEQJ62gCfbBu3uY42gRThKwxyi1I/uDm6pAwAoMkl GuTW74QapGZbXo/kGN4KokYM =qkl4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Brian B. Riley --> http://www.macconnect.com/~brianbr For PGP Keys <mailto:brianbr@together.net?subject=Get%20PGP%20Key> "Bacon and eggs: A days work for a chicken; a lifetime commitment for a pig"

3 2

Washington Times: "FCC wants to extend V chip to computers"
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Front page: "Not content to monitor the progrom on your television set, the FCC now wants to install a vchip in your personal computer -- a move that could extend the agency's reach into cyberspace... "Lawmakers said the vchip law was intended only for TV sets..." "Some question whether this will lead to FCC regulation of the Internet..." Dave Banisar, Rep. Tauzin, Ed Black make appearances. -Declan

2 1

Re: Remailer hating Nazis (was Re: The BIG Lie (Jesus Confesses))
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Anonymous <anon(a)anon.efga.org> wrote: >> > If so, then burn in hell, Nazi scum-sucking weasel! >> > >> Ditto for Paul Pomes and Gary Burnore. > >I'm familiar with the role of Gary Burnore <gburnore(a)netcom.com> and that >of his DataBasix associates Belinda Bryan <eridani(a)ix.netcom.com> and Billy >McClatchie (aka "Wotan") <wmcclatc(a)primenet.com> in getting the Mailmasher >and Huge Cajones remailers shut down. Jeff Burchell posted a public >expose' of their harassment to Usenet back in June, apparently catching the >DataBasix folks off-guard. But what's the story with Paul Pomes? What has >he done? Paul Pomes was complaining about Jeff Burchell's huge cajones remailer to Jeff Burchell's upstream and employers about the same time the rest of the Databasix gang was doing it. Paul Pomes appears to be a part of the Databasix gang. >Perhaps the best thing that can be done with people like Burnore is to put >together an FAQ about their tactics, similar to what his "fans" have done >for the "Rev." Steve Winter. Then when Burnore tries to stir up trouble by >first fabricating anonymous "abuse" and then demanding that it either be >stopped and the culprit(s) identified (knowing in advance that's >impossible), or else that the remailer be shut down, someone can forward >that FAQ to the remailer's upstream provider, or whoever is being pressured >to pull the plug. And if Paul Pomes engages in the same dishonest tactics, >that needs to be done with him as well. Gary Burnore had a mongo page at http://www.netscum.net/burnorg0.html. So did Paul Pomes, Belinda Bryan, and the rest of the Databasix gang. Too bad it's down for now, but it'll be back.

2 1

A Legal Strategy
by Secret Squirrel 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Let's say you are James Joyce and you are writing "Ulysses" on your nice little Linux machine. Because you fear persecution, you use encrypted virtual disks. Because you are clever, you have ten such disks. One contains your drafts of "Ulysses", four contain harmless information, and five contain noise. The jack booted thugs kick down your door and drag you to jail. The Judge orders you to produce the pass phrases of all the disks or be penalized for contempt of court. Now, you are in an interesting situation. You can't give the passwords for half of the disks, but you are unable to prove this. This means you have nothing to gain by giving the pass phrase to the "Ulysses" disk - you will always be seen as holding out. Even if you convince the Judge that some of the disks are noise, you have no reason not to include the "Ulysses" disk in this set. Monty Cantsin Editor in Chief Smile Magazine http://www.neoism.org/squares/smile_index.html http://www.neoism.org/squares/cantsin_10.htm -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNF1945aWtjSmRH/5AQGEMQf/Rv6ZMLV/Jw9lnKa2p9QjDd3L3oukDfL7 X/WEA4MpNJ80AHLfL9yro58iElJe8hSN0Ld6T56Cusw32numtO10du553ACTzeWP 6ktMokhKfsHFbmzbGu2U/ajlymEU3CwcD8sBkEJlCJ6J1E57jTaPpaxn6dPjak9p EmSQD3LoI9C/soacZOJPbNoMu2WA9Xb+tQ+RDfwU2jkZnqjdjLt0WKz2GpiMA3EY fQ2p69U0nKICyS/r7l8hM5aVMihxuexY7w1BNCKVSKIjGO+K0Niqz/APj782hKfy 3O1LHOmxcqVtxOTIZ9c1P8mSYpN/E4My8vcen9bp8a5GBzkIeVdQTQ== =RpFf -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

2 1

Re: democracy?! (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 22:06:03 GMT > From: Adam Back <aba(a)dcs.ex.ac.uk> > Subject: Re: democracy?! > > Jim Choate <ravage(a)ssz.com> writes: > > What is a reasonable summary? Reasonable to who? What 'lot' of > > democracies? > > This is getting kind of repetitive. I agree, I keep asking for your examples and proof and you keep avoiding providing them. You should consider being a politician or a lawyer. It's a real pity you can't seem to approach this discussion in good faith and with a sense of open analysis. > Perhaps you could provide a > counter example to disprove my claim that democracies result in more > petty privacy and freedom invasive laws than would be the case with a > pure market anarchy Pure market anarchy? What the hell is a pure market? I know what a free market is. Define it first. Explain how it, without an explicit bill of rights, will protect my rights? Explain how we don't end up with a Microsoft that owns everything which effectively reduces to a commercial communism? Where are my 'exit' choices then? What in the world would motivate such an entity to provide me with the resources to be a direct competitor, something clearly not in its best interest for long-term survival? How will others learn the technology and its applications outside the purvue of these economic regulatory entities. The unlimited expansion of the rail-roads in the 1800's is a excellent simili for comparison for both what such a system would be like as well as the major problems it *doesn't* address. Taminy Hall ring any bells? There was a free market political system if there ever was one; pay me and I'll do it for you, don't and you can freeze in hell. A more modern example is the history of the telecommunications companies which even after being broken up have now re-combined so that we in effect only have 3 domestic tel-comm providers, and they are discussing how to combine their resources. Further explain why such a system will guarantee that my views will at least be addressed at some level and not relegated a priori to a trash-heap because it goes against the market analysis of some bunch of bean-counters? Who do I go to for resolution of claims against these entities, the self-same entities? You call that justice, equality, or even representation? Explain why and how such a economic based system will guarantee my right to free speech or even to run a small business which I currently do when it is clear that I am in open competition with the very entities which provide me the resources to make the money? What is the economic motivation for the resource controlling entities to support my freedoms when it reduces their income? Explain how your system prevents economic black-balling? Another implication is that we will see more of the sort of business stategies implimented by PGP Inc. (for example) where they want a percentage of your income *without* accepting a percentage of the risk, economic tyrany is tyrany just the same. What recourse do I have if the monopolies which arise in such a system decide that the services or resources I need won't be provided? Am I then supposed to just calmly accept becoming some prole for some zaibatsu? What happens when those monopolies decide that if they work together they can further streamline the market, and my going to church or taking a vacation goes against those business requirements? It sounds like you are supporting Hirshleifer who says: "The mere fact of low income under anarchy... of itself provides no clear indication as to what is likely to happen next." [Personly, Hirshleifer is an idiot who apparently doesn't hang out on the wrong side of the tracks and therefore has no clue as to what motivates the poor or stupid.] Which in effect breaks down into one of two results for individuals (which all free market anarchists admit openly) who don't have sufficient income to buy their indipendance and their say: 1. they devote a great deal of effort to fighting to gain control over resources. or 2. they capitulate to some other party and turn over their resources for food and shelter. History would argue that people will accept neither of these as a solution to day-to-day living. Economists should stay out of politics. It's one of the reasons that at no point in either the Declaration of Indipendance or the Constitution that businesses are given rights are even given consideration except in regards of taxation of inter-state commerce. People should have seperation of government and religion and that includes the worship of wealth. > (perhaps old Iceland would be a suitable anarchy > to consider as a comparison). If it's so damn good how come it doesn't exist anymore? If it provided such a superior governmental system providing the maximum return on investment why did it go away? Why did they instead elect to go with a king? Futher, explain how such an anarchic system can be expanded without demonstrating the exact same sorts of scaling problems consensual democracies such as ancient Greek ran into? It's one thing to rule a few 10's of thousands of people who are related, share world-models and have limited resources and quite another to rule 4+ Billion people who speak hundreds if not thousands of languages and concommittent cultural beliefs? > Do you have a democracy in mind which > doesn't result in lots thought crimes and other "crimes" which are so > far removed from normal free market schelling points. It's just a > natural tendency of a democracy. Thought crimes and such are not a result of any political system but a result of the psychology of people. Please be so kind as to demonstrate (along with my previous questions I am still waiting on) how a political system effects the basic psychological development of the participants. Further, explain how the belief in the resolving power of money is any different than the resolving power of Buddha? You seem to be claiming that if we pray to the all mighty dollar all will be right with the world. > > > But they do share a characteristic: > > > distortions of free market in the form of voting for theft and > > > redistribution of other peoples money leading to annoying government > > > micro-management, and general do-gooder busy-body-ness, and the many > > > laws on thought crimes. > > > > Again, demostrate your assertion(s). > > > > Who? What? When? Where? Why? How? > > Who? What? Current democracices. When? Now. Why? Market > distortion. How? Politicians brokering legalised mass theft and > market distortion for game theoretic reasons. You seriously expect any reasonable person to be satisfied with such a side-step? And in case you hadn't realized it, the entire concept of free-market is a result of those same game theories. Are you claiming that such free market based systems will abandon game theory when it clearly provides insight into how those free markets operate? > > > Your constitution says you can own and carry > > > guns; your politicians and law enforcement increasingly say that you > > > can not. Your response to my saying that is that _I_ don't understand > > > the constitution? > > > > No, my responce is prove your assertions. > > You prove your assertion: are you saying there are no gun controls in The simply fact that one has a constitution that guarantees certain rights is *not* a guarantee that others won't find those rights threatening and want to take them away (see Hirshleifer's two alternatives above). And your assertion is that if we go to a free market anarchy then we no longer have to worry about anyone telling us what we can and can't do? Please be so kind as to demonstrate why a free market anarchy will prohibit monopolistic organizations who would be just as threatened by armed individuals as any other centralized organization? > > Explain to me why you believe these are valid views > > because they are a statement of readily observable reality? Where do I observe them? Give examples. Whose reality? Are you seriously claiming that there is one absolute reality? > > What you did say was that back in the old days people ran around > > killing those who bothered them. Which isn't true either. > > That bit was a statement of a belief that few people would be inclined > to invade someones privacy and attempt to impose sanctions for what > they viewed as thought crimes. It takes governments or religions to > do this kind of thing, individuals aren't likely to Governments and religions *ARE* people. There are times where I think you have said the stupidist thing possible and then you keep typing. Individuals are the ones who killed the Jews, put pepper spray in the eyes of demonstrators, and just about everything else that gets done. > > > The point was there were way less laws, and few were telling their > > > neighbours what they could think. > > > > Really? What was the law count say in 1865 versus 1965? 1897 v 1997? > > Demonstrate your point. > > I say: there were less laws in 1897 US than 1997 US. > > Tell me: do you refute that claim? I don't know, never looked at the numbers *AND* it isn't my job to refute it. *IT IS* your job to prove it since it is *YOUR* claim and apparently has some relevance to your thesis' validity. The number of laws at any given time is irrelevant and immaterial to my position (nice attempt at a straw man). It is plain stupidity to make claims and not have a clue as to the reality. I shure as hell won't be asking people to put their lives in my hands unless I could address such issues in a manner that they would feel comfortable with. Gut feelings are almost always wrong. The mere fact that you feel that we should take such claims at face value is a clear indication of what kind of worth you place in others. You believe yourself to be an angel apparently. Oh, and for the record. Studies of deaths during the 1800's indicate that the vast majority were accidental self-inflicted gunshot wounds, far more than the Indians or other 3rd parties inflicted combined. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there | | be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves. | | | | -Alan Greenspan- | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

4 3

Smartcards - Drivers Licenses in New Jersey
by Robert A. Costner 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The New Jersey legislature has announced that they will begin issuing smartcards for driver's licenses. The New license is reported to contain * biographical info * auto insurance info * medical insurance info * health info The cards are also claimed to be capable of carrying * fingerprints * photographic images * health records * billing statements The Capitol Report article and a Web based feedback forum can be found at http://www.cpanj.com/legislative/drivers_license_1196.html -- Robert Costner Phone: (770) 512-8746 Electronic Frontiers Georgia mailto:pooh@efga.org http://www.efga.org/ run PGP 5.0 for my public key

3 2