December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: White House "kinder, gentler"-CDA/censor empowerment meeting
by John Deters 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

This message was also To: Declan McCullagh <declan(a)well.com>, but apparently algebra.com eats messages with more than one To: recipient. From: John Deters <jad> Subject: Re: White House "kinder, gentler"-CDA/censor empowerment meeting In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.95.970716080230.15247L-100000(a)well.com> At 08:03 AM 7/16/97 -0700, you [Declan McCullagh] wrote: >I can only conclude that because Mr. Finkelstein does not live inside the >Beltway, we cannot expect him to realize that it is always necessary to >remain players in the game -- even if it means giving up fundamental >liberties in the process. Declan, I think you made a phrasing error here. Perhaps you meant to say that you think it, "prudent to hold your tongue when speaking to the White House if you want a gold-engraved invitation back." To some people, it read like you were saying "give up fundamental liberties to free speech in order to 'protect the children.'" Either way, there's not much difference there: political speech MUST remain the 'most protected of all', and if someone is afraid of speaking their mind during a debate, then we've all lost. However, I think you've missed the ACLU point of NOT "playing the game". They're not trying to get on (or stay on) the short invitation list to whatever dog-n-pony show the White House trots out next. Their concern is for the Constitution, that it be followed BY EVERYONE, and that it doesn't get trampled completely by bad laws written by ignorant lawmakers. When the ACLU was not "invited" to a meeting where the entire purpose seems be that of passing another bad law to circumvent the first amendment without pissing off the same ACLU, don't you agree that perhaps the White House made a tactical error? IMHO, the ACLU should be a part of the lawmaking *process*. Rather than passing bad laws and checking for their constitutionality on the back end by people desperate enough to gamble on the outcome of a long, expensive legal process, I think we'd all be a lot better off checking for constituonal laws before we pass them at all. According to the Constitution, that's the President's job (it's what he said when he took the oath), but we all know that he only sees his job to be that of "the biggest congressman of all, gotta follow the polls of the whole nation." Perhaps the "three strikes and you're out" rule could apply to Congress: if you vote for three laws that are overturned by the Supreme Court as unconstitutional, you go to jail for 25 years to life, no parole. Debate the new laws all you want, but when it comes down to casting your vote, you'd better be certain you're not violating the Constitution. We need more accountability on the front end of the legal process, because the average among us can't afford to gamble on the back end. John -- J. Deters "Don't think of Windows programs as spaghetti code. Think of them as 'Long sticky pasta objects in OLE sauce'." +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | NET: mailto:jad@dsddhc.com (work) mailto:jad@pclink.com (home) | | PSTN: 1 612 375 3116 (work) 1 612 894 8507 (home) | | ICBM: 44^58'36"N by 93^16'27"W Elev. ~=290m (work) | | For my public key, send mail with the exact subject line of: | | Subject: get pgp key | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Rep. Rick White on White House censorware summit (fwd)
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 14:32:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Declan McCullagh <declan(a)well.com> To: fight-censorship(a)vorlon.mit.edu Subject: Rep. Rick White on White House censorware summit FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Connie Correll July 16, 1997 (202) 225-1201 (O)/ (202) 237-2136 (H) e-mail: connie.correll(a)mail.house.gov WHITE ATTENDS WHITE HOUSE CONFERENCE QUESTIONS GOVERNMENT SOLUTION (Washington, D.C.) -- Congressman Rick White (R-First District) today made clear his desire to protect kids who use the Internet but expressed concern that the federal government can solve the problem. White's remarks were made during his participation in a closed meeting at the White House that focused on making the Internet family friendly. "I have four children who love to use the Net and there is no question we need to protect our kids from harmful material on the Internet. Today's meeting was a step in the right direction," said White. "But as we evaluate the next step we need to make sure we don't lure ourselves into a false sense of security. No matter what we do in the United States it won't affect sites developed in Amsterdam or Bangkok. That's why I'm skeptical that the federal government can solve this problem. The real solution will come from the smart people in the private sector." White today praised representatives of the software community, the Administration as well as family and civil liberty groups for their efforts to develop a comprehensive solution for a family friendly Internet. He encouraged the development of filtering software but expressed concern that a government based solution would be too restrictive and regulatory. White has long been a leader in keeping the Internet free from federal regulation. As a member of the select committee that developed the final telecommunications reform bill last year, White offered a compromise proposal to the CDA that would protect kids. The compromise included a proposal, defeated by one vote, to replace the "indecency" standard with the "harmful to minors" standard. Other provisions of White's compromise became part of the final bill. Those provisions included: 1) developing strong, effective laws that target wrongdoers; 2) using parental empowerment software to screen material; and 3) providing incentives for industry to develop new screening technologies. In March of 1996 White formed the Congressional Internet Caucus (IC) to help educate Members of Congress about the Internet. White believes through the work of the Internet Caucus and with the help of the Internet community, Capitol Hill has gained a better understanding of the Internet.

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The Real Plan: Making the Net Safe for Censorship
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 14:16:47 -0500 From: Marc Rotenberg <rotenberg(a)epic.org> To: fight-censorship(a)vorlon.mit.edu Subject: The Real Plan: Making the Net Safe for Censorship Here is an example of a proposal being presented at the White House today. The minds boggles at the number of unconstitutional provisions contained in such a brief text. Never has a freedom won in a Supreme Court decision been given up so quickly. Marc Rotenberg EPIC. ---------- http://www.safesurf.com/online.htm The Online Cooperative Publishing Act (SafeSurf's Proposal for a Safe Internet Without Censorship) Any law that seeks to regulate the Internet must first recognize the uniqueness of the medium. The Internet is not the print media or the broadcast industry. It is also not another form of phone conversation or a 900 number calling system. Instead, the Internet is the manifestation of humankind's quest for limitless two-way interaction with thought. The hyper-text layout allows us to change topics on a whim, travel to distance places, or gather world opinion on a subject in a matter of minutes. This distinctive nature of the Internet must be protected and even promoted by any legislation that claims to be fair to this medium. The interaction between the one receiving data and the one publishing it are where the core of the law should focus. Both sides have rights, the publisher has the First Amendment and the receiver has the right to be secure from harm in his home. Proper Internet law should encourage a cooperative transfer of ideas in the form of data. (It should be noted that it was the universal acceptance of basic rules of cooperation, rather than anarchy, that built the Internet. ) Any law that attempts to give one side or the other is given an unreasonable burden in conducting the transfer of data is doomed to failure. The CDA was too burdensome on the publisher. Its goal was to stop the flow of data, rather than to regulate it for the benefit of all parties. On the other hand, without a proper law, parents can purchase and activate measures to protect their children from adult material and still not feel secure in their homes from unwanted material. This is because negligent publishing of data eventually allows material that can harm the child to enter the home. Once this material is experienced by the child, its damage is done. There is no "oops" factor, no way to undo the unwanted intrusion into a child's innocence. Most importantly, any Internet law must not censor thought. It may regulate the labeling on the packaging but never the content. With the goal of achieving a greater spirit of cooperation between the publisher and the receiver of online data, we propose the Online Cooperative Publishing Act. It shall contain the following provisions: 1. The right to be able to identify the adult rating of online content before it enters one's home shall be established. This shall be a civil right giving the violated person or family the presumption in a suit against negligent publishers. 2. Negligent publishing of data shall be defined as placing adult oriented material on the Internet in such a way or in such a location that it prevents its rating from being known. 3. A rating shall be defined as a PICS compatible label that identifies degrees of adult content in a way that can be understood by computer filtering systems and is issued by a ratings service that has a minimum of 5,000 documented individuals using its system to mark their data. 4. A publisher is defined as anyone who places computer data where it can be accessed by the general public without the use of a credit card or other secure verified ID or password given out only to adults. Content that can be only be accessed by the use credit cards or other secure verified IDs is not subject to this law. 5. The code used to surround content published on the Internet shall be defined as packaging. All government identification requirements shall be limited to the code of the packaging. Nothing in this law shall be construed to require any altering or censorship of the content. 6. Three types of online publishing shall be defined: a) Publishers who accurately identify their data with a recognized labeling system. These publishers shall be considered to have satisfied the labeling requirement of the law. The right to publish shall be completely protected for those who accurately label their material. They shall be protected from all civil suits that argue negligent posting of data. Only grossly mislabeled material can be prosecuted. (Note: This is not a protection for obscene material. This law will offer no protection for obscene material.) b) Publishers who mislabel their data to the degree that it enables a minor using a label filtering system to gain access to harmful material. Data shall be considered to be mislabeled if it is posted in a newsgroup, directory or other joint area that has been labeled as free from material harmful to minors. Tampering with another's label shall be crime. These publishers may be criminally prosecuted for subverting a rating system to entice children to harmful material. The mislabeling must be to the extent that it is completely unreasonable to accept it as accurate. Only ratings that are too lenient can be prosecuted. Posting unlabeled adult material to an area that has declared itself safe for children or tampering with another's label shall be a severe criminal assault on the rights of the receiver. Sending unsolicited email to a minor that contains pornographic material or an invitation to a pornographic Web Site, shall be considered negligent enticement and may be criminally prosecuted. A bulk email service sending pornographic email must show that it took reasonable measures to insure that every recipient was an adult. (Example: The addresses used were from the membership list of Adult Check or other such adult verification services.) c) Publishers who do not label their data at all. Negligence in the absence of damages shall not be a criminal offense (but it may be a civil violation of the rights of the receivers of that data) unless the data is deemed to be harmful to minors. Then the publisher will be prosecuted for negligence. These publishers may be sued in civil court by any parent who feels their children were harmed by the data negligently presented. The parents shall be given presumption in all cases and do not have to prove the data actually produced harm to their child only that the material reasonably could be considered to have needed a label warning to protect children. 7. Internet Service Providers are considered publishers of only that material of which they directly control or gain revenue via a percentage of sales. Web Site designers may be held liable if they fail to attach ratings to Web sites, containing material harmful to minors, they design for a fee. They may, by written agreement, assign the task of rating to another legally responsible party. 8. Not every document is required to be labeled, only the default or index document of each directory. In the case of an entire web domain being of one rating, only its default top level document needs to be labeled with instructions to apply it to the entire site.

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Re: HeavensGate Mirror incomplete/censored
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

We decided to ditch the Pathfinder mirror site after a few weeks. The difference in the heavensgate.com and pathfinder.com sites was due, I remember, to the fact that we grabbed our copy from the heavensgatetoo.com site, which wasn't quite identical. -Declan At 03:28 +2037 3/31/5, Edgar W Swank wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >Mike Duvos recently posted here > > For complete information on the impending recycling of the planet > earth, and instructions for entering the Kingdom Level above > Human, try the mirror at... > > http://www.pathfinder.com/news/heavensgate > >I was able, finally, to get through to the original site > > http://www.heavensgate.com > >and I noticed the mirror site does not include two links present >in the original > > Earth Exit Statements by Students > > Exit Press Release: > "Away Team" Returns to Level Above Human > >which are perhaps the most interesting for "outsiders." The last >one starts > > RANCHO SANTA FE, CA -- By the time you receive this, we'll be gone -- > several dozen of us. ... > >And offers these instructions for stragglers ... > > During a brief window of time, some may wish to follow us. If > they do, it will not be easy. The requirement is to not only > believe who the Representatives are, but, to do as they and we > did. You must leave everything of your humanness behind. This > includes the ultimate sacrifice and demonstration of faith -- > that is, the shedding of your human body. If you should choose > to do this, logistically it is preferred that you make this > exit somewhere in the area of the West or Southwest of the > United States -- but if this is not possible -- it is not > required. You must call on the name of TI and DO to assist > you. In so doing, you will engage a communication of sorts, > alerting a spacecraft to your location where you will be picked > up after shedding your vehicle, and taken to another world -- > by members of the Kingdom of Heaven. > >Edgar W. Swank <EdgarSwank(a)Juno.com> > (preferred) >Edgar W. Swank <cryoprez(a)jps.net> > (for files/msgs >50K) >Home Page: http://members.tripod.com/~EdgarS/index.html > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >Version: 2.6.2 > >iQCVAwUBM0Ve8N4nNf3ah8DHAQHc0wP/SEC42UUnfke6+XhnTBjC52KqJEEo8df/ >3HctUa4eQqOBmQAIlk9YP/BpYjhSMyXaFTb9Af9AuzUbyKZIiBJcLTqaIv9MEo/q >EKYbXs3kNI2bP/txTyqNo0BVnXIW6h7infnEE5lJp+xc5d5ci5beIiMXVQxYinEl >o+VsLWmezC8= >=WsOo >-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------------------------- Declan McCullagh Time Inc. The Netly News Network Washington Correspondent http://netlynews.com/

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Re: The Real Plan: Making the Net Safe for Censorship
by Ross Wright 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Marc: What a bunch of crap! Keep out of the internet, you government flunky. Let business, commerce and freedom of speech remain in it's new home, Cyberspace. And save your regulations for someone who needs them. On or About 16 Jul 97 at 14:42, Marc Rotenberg <rotenberg(a)epic.org> wrote: > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 14:16:47 -0500 > From: Marc Rotenberg <rotenberg(a)epic.org> > To: fight-censorship(a)vorlon.mit.edu > Subject: The Real Plan: Making the Net Safe for Censorship > > > Here is an example of a proposal being presented > at the White House today. =-=-=-=-=-=- Ross Wright King Media: Bulk Sales of Software Media and Duplication Services http://www.slip.net/~cdr/kingmedia Voice: (408) 259-2795

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Justice is Done
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- From: "--Todd Lappin-->" <telstar(a)WIRED.COM> Wednesday July 16 4:10 PM EDT TV's 'Barney' Chokes in Filming Accident DALLAS (Reuter) - An actor playing "Barney," the purple dinosaur loved by millions of children, suffered smoke inhalation when a cooling fan inside the 60-pound suit shorted out during filming of the TV show, officials said Wednesday. There was no fire but the actor inhaled smoke as he tried to get out of the suit at a Dallas studio Tuesday, said Susan Elsner, a spokeswoman for Lyrick Studios and The Lyons Group, which created and produces the hugely popular children's show "Barney & Friends." She said the actor, who was not named, inhaled a "slight amount of smoke" but was released after a routine examination. Once the incident was reported on television, scores of anxious parents called to say their children were worried their favorite dinosaur had been burned or, worse still, was a fake. "It can be really devastating to a 3-year-old," Elsner said. "They love Barney and they think that something terrible has happened to him, or that it's not real." "Barney & Friends" airs on the U.S. Public Broadcasting System and is a top-ranking program for children under age 6. It appears in 30 countries across six continents. Elsner said Tuesday's incident came as the cast was filming shows for the fall season.

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Re: FCPUNX:'The Failure to Do Your Job' amendment (was Re: White House
by James A. Donald 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 02:15 PM 7/16/97 -0500, John Deters wrote: > A Constitutional amendment that would call for the impeachment of the > President for failing to veto any three bills that are overturned by the > Supreme Court on Constitutional grounds. This however, presupposes that the supreme court is likely to veto unconstitutional bills, and refrain from vetoing constitutional bills. This does not appear to be the case. --------------------------------------------------------------------- | We have the right to defend ourselves | http://www.jim.com/jamesd/ and our property, because of the kind | of animals that we are. True law | James A. Donald derives from this right, not from the | arbitrary power of the state. | jamesd(a)echeque.com

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DefCon revisited -- other reports on the conference
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

My report on DefCon is at: http://www.cnn.com/TECH/9707/16/netly.news/index.html Attached are some followup notes from conference attendees. -Declan ********** Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 04:26:23 -0800 From: Szechuan Death <sdeath(a)ackphft.matsu.alaska.edu> Subject: Def Con 5 Summary God _DAMN_ that was fun!!! >;-> (Despite the fact that I lost a shoe running away from a security guard, and had to pitch the other one and my Rastafarian wig to satisfy my paranoia about getting caught, it was well worth it... besides, the barbed-wire gouges are healing nicely, and I'll be getting a tetanus shot tomorrow...) Let's see - my picks for Best of 'Con: Mudge, because he's damned good (even if he _does_ work with NT) Bruce Schneier, because he's - Bruce Schneier... Val, for the dress (I still think the boots were masochistic, tho) and Winn Schwartau for being such a good sport at Hacker Jeopardy, even if he _did_ sound eerily like Alex Trebek. Next year (if they have a Def Con next year) I'm coming back with a power drill, Security Hex drivers, and a set of black pajamas - one of those security cameras _will_ be mine... _Are_ they going to have a Def Con next year? Please say yes - Def Con 6 is something to look forward to through a bleak and cold Alaskan winter... >;-> ********** Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 01:57:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Fyodor <fyodor(a)dhp.com> Subject: DC5 Wow, the list sure is quiet. I imagine this is because everyone is recovering from last weekend! And probably reading their overflowing mailboxes. Or at least repeatedly pressing 'd'. So how did it go?? Us lamers who couldn't make it want to know. Speaking of which, did anyone get a video tape together? I'll buy it! What did Mudge talk about? Did he expose any gaping holes? He tends to do that sometimes. What about *Hobbit*? Did he give any new information, or was it mostly a rehash of his (excellent) CIFS paper? And how was the bitch? Did anyone go to her "discussion"? Did it go as "well" as her IRC chats (before she was canceled)?. [...] ********** Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 08:44:51 -0400 (EDT) From: krys <krystali(a)safari.net> Subject: Re: DC5 > Wow, the list sure is quiet. I imagine this is because everyone is > recovering from last weekend! And probably reading their overflowing > mailboxes. Or at least repeatedly pressing 'd'. I can't speak for the rest of the list, but I'm still walking around in a dazed state, and hearing the ching-ching of thousands of slot machines in my head. Apparently, it's going to take me a bit longer than anticipated to recover. > What did Mudge talk about? Did he expose any gaping holes? He tends to > do that sometimes. What about *Hobbit*? Did he give any new information, > or was it mostly a rehash of his (excellent) CIFS paper? Mudge and Hobbit ended up combining their talks, and they were both excellent, and quite informative. They spoke on various NT issues, including CIFS and SMB and Microsoft's rehashing of bad password schemes among other things. Unfortunately, I was still half asleep at the time. I hope someone got audio of this - I'd really like a copy. > And how was the bitch? Did anyone go to her "discussion"? Did it go as > "well" as her IRC chats (before she was canceled)?. The Happy Hacker Panel was a blast. Disorder did a great job of fielding questions, as did Matt. Jon and Bronc were a lot more quiet, but they answered some questions as well. Carolyn did a great job of making a fool of herself. We did learn a few things, though: 1. Carolyn hacks her toaster. 2. Carolyn thinks sending http commands to the ssh port is a good idea. 3. Carolyn doesn't mind asking stupid questions. (This one was a real shocker.) 4. Dis and 303 went to a lot of trouble to get Carolyn a copy of "Secrets of a Super Hacker", which they so kindly had everyone autograph. Alas, she already owned a copy. 5. One of Carolyn's favorite hacking methods is calling people and asking them for their root password. > Has anyone done a write-up of the highlights of the experience? I noticed > that Declan has a brief piece on the Netlynews today. He'll probably post > the first couple paragraphs here anyway, so I'll save him the trouble: The only thing I've seen so far, other than what you posted from NetlyNews, was a horrible AP piece, also posted here. > Well, hopefully others will enlighten us with their DC5 experience when > things calm down a bit. Other than the lack of a working T1, I thought most things went well. It's a shame se7en's speech was scheduled at the same time as the happy hacker panel, though. I would have liked to hear what he had to say. Uhm.. has anyone else heard rumor of the hotel's satellite dishes being piled up on the 26th floor? -krys ************ Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 13:58:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Xservo <servo(a)garbage.netrox.net> Subject: Re: DC5 26th floor? well i do know there the coax ended up (flea). yeah i saw someone running down the hall with a dish and thought 'oh we are going to have a satellite phone for demo' then i was told to "move, you didn't see anything" uhhh ok..... wtf! -xs ------------------------- Declan McCullagh Time Inc. The Netly News Network Washington Correspondent http://netlynews.com/

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Re: The Real Plan: Making the Net Safe for Censorship
by Ross Wright 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On or About 16 Jul 97 at 18:12, Lizard wrote: > At 04:47 PM 7/16/97 -0700, Ross Wright wrote: > >Marc: > > > >What a bunch of crap! Keep out of the internet, you government > >flunky. Let business, commerce and freedom of speech remain in > >it's new home, Cyberspace. And save your regulations for someone > >who needs them. > > You will get a lot more respect on the net once you learn how to > read messages. I'll leave it you to figure out what you got wrong. Umm, I think I understood the message, and Mr. Rotenberg's involvement in the politics of censorship, as it relates to the Internet. > Sheesh. And I retreated to mailing lists to get away from this kind > of stuff on USENET. What? I just feel that there should be no laws or resolutions or promises made or kept by the United States Government about the internet. On or About 16 Jul 97 at 14:42, Declan McCullagh wrote, about something that Marc Rotenberg <rotenberg(a)epic.org> wrote: >On the other hand, without a proper law, See, when they say "without" that means they think we need one. >parents can purchase and >activate measures to protect their children from adult material and >still not feel secure in their homes from unwanted material. Ohhhh, so scary. Not safe in the home! Imagine that. >This is >because negligent publishing of data eventually allows material that >can harm the child to enter the home. Once this material is >experienced by the child, its damage is done. There is no "oops" >factor, no way to undo the unwanted intrusion into a child's >innocence. Parental supervision? What ever happened to that? >Most importantly, any Internet law must not censor thought. It may >regulate the labeling on the packaging but never the content. Most importantly, I don't want any Internet law. ANY. Just my opinion. >With the goal of achieving a greater spirit of cooperation between >the publisher and the receiver of online data, we propose the Online >Cooperative Publishing Act. I don't want ANY Act. Knock it off. Keep out. Stay away. Save your Acts for someone who needs them. Ross =-=-=-=-=-=- Ross Wright King Media: Bulk Sales of Software Media and Duplication Services http://www.slip.net/~cdr/kingmedia Voice: (408) 259-2795

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Fuck You Rating Systems, Inc.
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

ANNOUNCEMENT: Fuck You Ratings Software Escapes Beta-Test! We are proud to announce that "Fuck You" ratings software has managed to escape our beta-test laboratory and is now available in tit bars and crack houses around the nation. Our software makes it easy and convenient to attach ratings labels to your web site which reflect your attitude toward the anal retentive assholes who are surfing for trouble. "Fuck You, you Christian asshole! All I have on this web site is *real* pussy, not *imaginary* saviors!" "Fuck You, you LEA prick! This web site is leased in the name of my dead grandmother, so don't bother getting a subpoena unless you're willing to do some digging." "Fuck You, mom and dad! Until you flush your dope down the toilet, I don't need to hear any of your moralistic crapola." "Fuck You" ratings software has the "Lenny Bruce Found-fucking-dation" Seal of Approval. What others have to say about "Fuck You" ratings software: "Fuck." - Tim May "Shit." - Declan McCullagh "Cocksucker." - Dr. Dimitri Vulis, KOTM "Am not." - John Gilmore "Are too." - Paul Bradley "Fuck." - Kent Crispin "If you check the archives, you'll find that I said 'Fuck' earlier in this post." - Tim May "Darn." - Dorothy Denning "Heck." - Senator Snatch (hee, hee) Order "Fuck You" ratings software before Dec. 32, 2299, and get a free copy of "Bite Me" autoresponder software. {Offer not valid in states where having sexual relations with animals is against local ordinances.}

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