December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Depends / Re: Senate spams
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Greg Broiles wrote: > > At 01:26 AM 2/28/97 -0600, snow wrote: > >> At 01:41 AM 2/27/97 -0800, Toto wrote: > >> > I didn't see a single post on CypherPunks where anyone expressed the > >> >least problem with pure, unmitigated spam being deleted. > > Greg Broiles wrote: > >> My point precisely. The question is not "is it useful to eliminate some > >> messages from the list?", but "which messages shall we eliminate?". > > > > This is mis-direction, and I believe it is deliberate on Boiles > >part. > > > > The question isn't "which messages shall we eliminate"--which implies > >that the original writer was seeking to silence _someone_, but rather > >given that there are [many some a-few] messages being sent to this list that > >are sent by non-human entities (bots, auto-replies, bounces etc.) is there > >a way to avoid propigating them. > > Will you count Raph's remailer statistics as "machine generated" and > exclude them, too? Only asinine, dip-shit numbskulls would be capable of making this idiotic extrapolation. Why am I not surprised it came from Greg? > Many/most of the "spam" messages are sent to the list because someone > (either the author, or a third party) wanted them to be sent to the list. > The fact that one or more machines are used to carry out that person's > wishes is irrelevant. We're not talking about the effects of alpha > particles or honest mistakes, we're talking about a deliberate choice to > send some content to the list. More DoubleSpeak transposing the issues of Spam and content. > And we're apparently talking about other > people choosing to override that choice to send content to the list, on the > basis of dislike for the sender, the sender's purpose, or the content of > the message. No we're not, Greg. _You_ seem to be the only one speaking of censorship based on personality, agendas and content. (Try to keep in mind that the thoughts and words of others are no longer being censored by your associates.) > And, like Toto said, there's nobody left who's arguing (modulo the > Freedom-Knights guy, whose name escapes me at the moment, who may not > really be on the list, haven't seen anything from him in a week or so) > against all censorship, just people arguing against censorship that they > don't like or done by people they don't trust, but in favor of censorship > they do like, or done by people they do trust. Toto is calling Greg a lying fuck who deliberately disseminates misinformation as to the stances taken by others. Greg seem to have taken it upon himself to provide a misinterpretation of the posts of others, even though those posts are available for people to read for themselves, making their own judgements as to what they say. I have maintained from the beginning that there needs to be a CypherPunks list which is free from filtering in any way, shape or form. I have also maintained that the interests of crypto would also be served by the maintenance of lists which offer filtering services by those who wish to provide them--even a CypherPunks-NoToto list. Anyone who read my post to Igor, suggesting that I would have no problem with him intercepting autobot-replies that result from mailbomb attacks, also knows that I suggested even the empty spam-messages being deleted should be stored where they are open to scrutiny, and that I, for one, would indeed be scrutinizing them. For Greg to purport that the interception of mail-bomb attacks equates somehow to content/personality censorship is unmitigated bullshit aimed at the dim-witted (of which I believe there are very few of on any of the CypherPunks lists). If Greg would like to put forth a logical train of thought which compares the interception of empty auto-bot messages generated in response to the forged posts of a mailbomb attack with Sandy's fascist censorship methods (which Greg eloquently described, but misdirected their source), then I would like to see it. > I don't see anything morally wrong with deliberately altering the flow of > messages to and through the list, but I think it's bad form to pretend not > to be doing that. Who is doing this, Greg? Name names. Give us an example of who is doing this and pretending not to do it. Why are your claims so vague? -- Toto ----------------------------- "The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre" http://bureau42.base.org/public/xenix/xenbody.html

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Re: "Suspected of purchasing diesel fuel"
by dlv＠bwalk.dm.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk writes: > > > > No, you 'all' have it wrong. > > > The censorship experiment was actually the result of the tremendous > > > amount of envy on the list over my having a 16" dick. > > > > So when a super babe says she wants a man with a 12" dick, do you > > have to go cut off 4 inches? Me being only 11", I just have to give > > her up. > > I always said this list would degenerate into a penis size > competition ;-) ITAR-relevant urban legend: once the Soviet government order 10K dozen 8" condoms in the U.S. and the Nixon administration made sure that each one was stamped "medium". > Paul (18") Bradley --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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Re: GAK
by nobody＠huge.cajones.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timmy May was born when his mother was on the toilet. _ {~} ( V-) Timmy May '|Y|' _|||_

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Re: NWLibs> Re: "Suspected of purchasing diesel fuel"
by dlv＠bwalk.dm.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

jim bell <jimbell(a)pacifier.com> writes: > >Objective journalism, my lily white butt. Journalists are whores - just ask Declan "Censorship" McCullough. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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ANNOUNCE: "Digital Money Online" report released 24 Feb 97
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text Sender: e$(a)thumper.vmeng.com Reply-To: Rachel Willmer <rachel(a)intertrader.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Precedence: Bulk Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 16:53:28 +0000 From: Rachel Willmer <rachel(a)intertrader.com> To: Multiple recipients of <e$(a)thumper.vmeng.com> Subject: ANNOUNCE: "Digital Money Online" report released 24 Feb 97 Digital Money Online Intertrader Ltd February 1997 Intertrader is pleased to announce the release of this 50 page report, which compares several current and future digital money technologies, such as Mondex, Cybercash and First Virtual. Available online at <http://www.intertrader.com/library/DigitalMoneyOnline/dmo/dmo.htm> or you can download a PDF copy at <http://www.intertrader.com/library/DigitalMoneyOnline/dmo/order.htm> All comments welcome! Regards Rachel P.S. This report supersedes the previous "Electronic Transaction Protocols". -- Rachel Willmer, Intertrader Ltd, Cova House, 4 John's Place, Edinburgh Email: rachel(a)intertrader.com Tel: +44 131 555 8450 Fax: +44 131 555 8451 Sun Internet Associate and winner of 1996 SMART Award for Innovation "We develop Java Commerce Solutions" ---------- The e$ lists are brought to you by: Intertrader Ltd - Commerce Solutions in the UK Visit for details ... Where people, networks and money come together: Consult Hyperion http://www.hyperion.co.uk info(a)hyperion.co.uk Like e$? Help pay for it! See Or, for e$/e$pam sponsorship, see Thanks to the e$ e$lves: Of Counsel: Vinnie Moscaritolo (Majordomo)^2: Rachel Willmer Commermeister: Anthony Templer Interturge: Rodney Thayer --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "Never attribute to conspiracy what can be explained by stupidity." -- Jerry Pournelle The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/rah/ FC97: Anguilla, anyone? http://www.ai/fc97/

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Re: "Suspected of purchasing diesel fuel"
by dlv＠bwalk.dm.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Toto <toto(a)sk.sympatico.ca> writes: > Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > > > > Toto wrote: > > > Who is the janitor at the Japenese embassy in New York City? > > > What is the postal code of Mule Shoe, Texas? > > > Who is buried in Grant's Tomb? > > > > Grant? > > One out of three gets you a green card, Igor. Look up the postal code > for Muleshoe, Texas, and you get a citizenship card. > If you can name the janitor at the Japanese embassy, however, you'll > probably be indicted for espionage. It's unnatural to be a U.S. citizen because most people aren't. I used to walk my dogs by Grant's tomb. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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Your News from Infoseek for Saturday, March 1, 1997
by Infoseek News Center 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hello abba, Here are your personal news headlines from Infoseek for Saturday, March 1, 1997. To read the latest news or search for these articles, visit the Infoseek News Center at: http://yournews.infoseek.com To view previous headlines, click the "See Older News" button. Technology News http://yournews.infoseek.com/mtechnology Fri 10:00 Lawmakers Seek Free Export of Encryption These headlines are provided by Reuters, Business Wire, and PR Newswire. ********************************************************************** To change your Infoseek News Center profile, go to http://yournews.infoseek.com/ and click "Personalize." To stop receiving personalized news e-mail from Infoseek, either: * Go to http://yournews.infoseek.com/page?pg=pro_reg.html and change your "news delivery option"; or * Reply via e-mail to this message, and put the word "cancel" in your reply's "subject" line; or * E-mail newsctr(a)infoseek.com, and put the word "cancel" in your message's "subject" line. Send comments or suggestions to: comments-news(a)infoseek.com

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Re: "Suspected of purchasing diesel fuel"
by dlv＠bwalk.dm.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Casey Iverson <iverson(a)usa.net> writes: > At 07:22 PM 2/28/97 EST, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: > >I recall that when I was becoming a naturalized amcit circa 1986, I was aske > >a single question: name the 2 senators of New York State. These were D'Amato > >and Moynihan back then, and they still are. I've heard of cases when the IN > >didn't want someone to pass the exam, and they asked much harder questions > >which some people actually flunked. > > > Biggest mistake the INS ever made was to allow a piece of Russian dung like > *you* into the USA Vladimir Il'yich Lenin said: the capitalists will sell us the ropes on which we will hang them. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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Re: Russian Invasion
by dlv＠bwalk.dm.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Toto <toto(a)sk.sympatico.ca> writes: > Casey Iverson wrote: > > > > At 07:22 PM 2/28/97 EST, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: > > >I recall that when I was becoming a naturalized amcit circa 1986, I was as > > >a single question: name the 2 senators of New York State. These were D'Ama > > >and Moynihan back then, and they still are. I've heard of cases when the > > >didn't want someone to pass the exam, and they asked much harder questions > > >which some people actually flunked. > > > > > > Biggest mistake the INS ever made was to allow a piece of Russian dung like > > *you* into the USA > > It's a trick. A post-Reaganite desk jockey in Washington figured out > that we could save millions of dollars in missle fuel by luring the > Russians to the U.S. and 'then' nuking them. > Now, if we could only get them to all visit Congress at the same > time... You have reached the Central Intelligence Agency Web site - running StrongHold. All of our agents are busy right now. Your session is important to us. Please remain on the socket for the next available operative. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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Electronic Cash
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text Date: Thu, 27 Feb 97 18:16:03 EST From: weffross(a)counsel.com (Walter A Effross -- American Univ. - Washington ) To: rah(a)shipwright.com Subject: Electronic Cash To: rah(a)shipwright.com Inet Robert, I thought that you and the members of your group would be interested in this Symposium. Please feel free to send the information around to whatever listservs you think appropriate. Thanks! Walter THE ELECTRONIC FUTURE OF CASH - A SYMPOSIUM The Washington College of Law and the American University Law Review are proud to announce a full-day Symposium on the Electronic Future of Cash, to be held at the law school in Washington, DC on Friday, April 18, 1997 in connection with the publication of a special Symposium issue of the Law Review on this topic. The first panel, "The Technology of Electronic Cash," will include: Newsweek columnist Steven Levy; Cybercash General Counsel Russ Stevenson; Peter Wayner, author of Digital Cash: Commerce on the Internet; Gary Lorenz, General Manager of the Diebold Campus Systems Division; and a representative (invited) of the National Security Agency. This panel will examine the operation of stored value cards and encryption techniques and will include a demonstration of a "cyberpayment" made online with digital cash. The second panel, "Commentary on the Regulation of Electronic Cash," brings together the authors of articles in the Symposium issue (provided, with additional materials, to all registrants) to review and recommend regulatory efforts from the viewpoints of academics, practitioners, bankers, and consumer advocates. Panelists include: Professor Mark Budnitz, Georgia State University College of Law; Richard Field, Chair of the Electronic Commerce Payment Committee of the American Bar Association; Professor Egon Guttman, Washington College of Law; Professor David Oedel, Mercer University Law School; Simon Lelieveldt, Senior Policy Advisor, Payment Systems Policy Department, De Nederlandsche Bank (the Dutch Central Bank); and Brian Smith of Mayer, Brown & Platt. Dr. David Chaum, the founder and president of DigiCash, has been invited to give a luncheon address. The third panel, "The Perspectives of the Regulators," includes: Thomas Baxter, Jr., General Counsel of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York; William Kroener, General Counsel of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation; Michael Billsma, Acting Director, Community and Consumer Law, Office of the Comptroller of the Currency; Stephen Kroll, Legal Counsel, Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN), United States Treasury Department; Scott Charney, Chief, Computer Crime and Intellectual Property Section, Criminal Justice Division, Department of Justice; John Lopez, Counsel, Subcommittee on Domestic and International Monetary Policy; Paul Glenn, Special Counsel, Office of Thrift Supervision; and Lucy Morris, Assistant Director for Credit Practices, Federal Trade Commission. A reception will follow. Registration fees (including lunch) are: $150 for preregistrants; $175 for registration at the door; $100 for Washington College of Law alumni; $80 for judges, law clerks, and government employees; and $40 for full-time academics. Please register early, as space may be limited. For a registration form and more information, please contact Professor Walter Effross, the Symposium's organizer and panel moderator, at (202) 274-4017, see our Symposium website at http://www.wcl.american.edu/pub/journals/lawrev/electronic_cash/con f.htm, or email: futurecash(a)wcl.american.edu. --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "Never attribute to conspiracy what can be explained by stupidity." -- Jerry Pournelle The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/rah/ FC97: Anguilla, anyone? http://www.ai/fc97/

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