December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

My messages not appearing on either of the lists?
by Timothy C. May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Cypherpunks, My posting seem to be going into Limbo, being sent neither to the Cypherpunks Heaven Sandy administers nor to the flames of the Cypherpunks Hell. At least this is how things now appear. I sent the message below to the list this morning (Thursday) at 8:43 a.m. PST. As of tonight, 12 hours later, I haven't seen it on either the Singapore Web site--last archived 30 minutes ago--or on the "Flames" list to which I have temporarily subscribed (to see what Sandy counts as a "flame"). Has anyone else seen it? I've looked, but there's always a chance I somehow spaced out and missed it. (I doubt it though.) If I have missed it, despite carefully scanning for it for the past 8-12 hours, my apologies. If it has not appeared on either the Censored list or the Flames list, then something is rotten in the state of Denmark. By the way, I noted that many of the messages which appeared at the Singapore Web archive site have dates much later than mine, including several dated at least 8-10 hours after my message. Likewise, some of the Flames messages are dated much later than my message. (Bill Stewart got a message through dated Thu, 06 Feb 1997 16:06:06 -0800, Mark Henderson got one through at Thu, 6 Feb 1997 15:56:19 PST, and so on. One would thus have thought that my message, dated Thu, 6 Feb 1997 08:43:35 -0800, would by now either have been approved and hence on the Censored list, or rejected as unfit for Cypherpunks to sully their neurons with, and hence passed on to the Flames list. By the way, some of the "Flames" messages are also dated late afternoon or evening.) So, is my message just sitting around someplace, awaiting some final decision? What's the basis of this decision? (Perhaps Sandy has "kicked it upstairs" to John for him to decide on? Just a hypothesis....) I will repeat my message below. As you will be able to see, my message contains no "flames" of its own, and the messages it quotes do not seem flamish to me, either. (It is true that Vulis uses the phrase "Limey faggots," in reference to beer-serving habits, but he does not directly insult any list members with this phrase. If Sandy is calling this phrase a flame, then Cypherpunks will be blocked from their usual characterizations of Congresscritters and NSA stooges.) I think a delay of greater than 11 hours in being distributed on one of the two lists (even if my message is sent out in the next hour or so) is unacceptable. If a moderator cannot get to traffic in the order in which it was received and disposition it promptly, he or she has no business being a moderator of a high-volume list. (Eric Blossom's and Ray Arachelian's "best of" compilations are a different matter, for reasons discussed many times here.) So, why hasn't this message appeared on one of the two lists? --Tim May >Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 08:43:35 -0800 >To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com >From: "Timothy C. May" <tcmay(a)got.net> >Subject: Re: Moderation [Tim,Sandy] >Cc: >Bcc: >X-Attachments: > > >I decided to subscribe only to the "cypherpunks flames" list, just to see >what was being filtered into it. > >The message below is one example of what is going there. I received it, >and the header includes the line: "Sender: >owner-cypherpunks-unedited(a)toad.com", so I am surmising that it was indeed >filtered into the flames list. > >Now, admittedly, the _content_ of this kind of post is "off-topic," but I >sure don't see any evidence of _flames_. > >Is Sandy now filtering based on his notions of list relevance, and not >just on the basis of insults, jabs, flames, and "lack of comity"? While >lack of relevance may be a criterion for someone to filter by, it doesn't >square with anything I recall Sandy citing, and it introduces a new and >dimension to the debate. > >--Tim May > >(The entire post is included, to ensure that no one claims I am editing >out any flames, insults, etc.) > > >At 11:06 PM -0800 2/5/97, Dale Thorn wrote: >>Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: >>> Dale Thorn <dthorn(a)gte.net> writes: >> >>> > > > The drunk can be excluded, but when someone wants to use the drunk as >>> > > > an example to escalate the exclusion to other persons who are not in >>> > > > fact drunk, watch out! >> >>> > > If I get really really drunk, which happens very seldom, then I'm >>> > > too drunk to post. I don't mind an occasional beer, though. >> >>> > > Oksas, have you ever tried beer? :-) >> >>> > I had my first beer(s) in three years at one of those industrial >>> > parties last night. It made the craps table action seem a bit >>> > merrier, and the girls were friendlier too. >> >>> I like an occasional Coors Lite. BTW I think Limey Faggots are right about >>> one think: I like room-temperature beer better than cold beer. YMMV. >> >>Interesting coincidence for people on opposite coasts - the bar at >>the hotel had two choices: Bud regular and Coors light. I took the >>Coors. > > > > > Just say "No" to "Big Brother Inside" We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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World's first Ecash note
by Jeremey Barrett 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- The world's first Ecash note has been printed! A USD 0.01 note made out to anyone can be found at: http://www.veriweb.com/people/jeremey/ecash/1_cent.html The data portion of the note is a PDF417 2-D barcode, containing a standard ecash payment of 1 US cent. The source code for the general PDF417 encoding and the ecash conversion will be published as soon as I clean it up and come up with a somewhat nicer interface. The PDF417 code should be useful for non-ecash stuff as well, it will encode anything. I will be bringing a bunch of notes to the bay-area cypherpunks meeting Saturday. Suggestions/comments appreciated. - -- =-----------------------------------------------------------------------= Jeremey Barrett VeriWeb Internet Corp. Senior Software Engineer http://www.veriweb.com/ PGP Key fingerprint = 3B 42 1E D4 4B 17 0D 80 DC 59 6F 59 04 C3 83 64 =-----------------------------------------------------------------------= -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.4, an Emacs/PGP interface iQCVAwUBMvq83i/fy+vkqMxNAQH/tQP/fSgEQ8K0BQcwTJxnaF7aKg1LzNshMdey A8MH67Uv8zfv9cQTD0+g/JO4x64Ina5ZcMqn4IoHNOybqfvrR4ZepDLa+SsX2hhU 2xdmgf452OEhVpjSYoNnDMKoKAUUbfIlApu7W/9M/Ecx3vbT0cq4dxVF2zzcmJsy nhEPFe2iSc4= =v84p -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Which list am I on?
by Against Moderation 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I thought I was on the cypherpunks edited list. However, I appear to have seen some of the messages that Tim says got lost. Moreover, I keep getting ASCII art messages flaming someone with the initials DLV (though I haven't seen any more of the TCM flames [I haven't looked too hard, either]). My mail headers have: >From cypherpunks-errors(a)toad.com <date> >Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com Now I'm really confused. Which list am I on?

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Dr. Denning
by nobody＠huge.cajones.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dimwit Vermin is a pimply dweeb sitting at a computer chortling at his own imagined cleverness. _<_ (_|_( Dimwit Vermin \-._|_,-, `-----'

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Re: Govt & cyberspace
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I find your "distributed democracy" interesting, except that it would allow scant time for deliberation. Think of it this way: don't you think the majority of Americans would have voted to pass the CDA? Or worse? Or restrictions on domestic crypto? Or worse? Democracy generally means majoritarian rule. The Bill of Rights is an anti-majoritarian document. It protects the rights of political or religious minorities. I fear that electronic "click here to vote" democracy would undermine the Bill of Rights even more. -Declan --- Dale Thorn writes: I wish for once and for all someone would delineate this "democracy" thing from a true, distributed democracy, where every individual is required to participate equally, and no narrow interests can co-opt the vote the way they do in the kind of "democracy" Declan mentions. Wouldn't it be better when people mention a one-word political philosophy such as democracy, that they make the definition more precise by using two or three words instead?

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remailer-operators DEA agents?
by Secret Squirrel 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: > c.musselman(a)internetmci.com (Charley Musselman) writes: > > C'punks -- > > When I told a friend about the alt.drugs.pot cultivation newsgroup > > and suggested that he use an anonymous remailer to post to the group, > > he laughed and said, "Who do you suppose runs the remailers? ATF, > > FBI, DEA, that's who!" Gee, it makes sense to this paranoid. Does > > anyone know the answer? Specifically, how can we choose a trusted > > remailer? > > Even if the feds are not directtly involved, the so-called "cypher punk" > remailers are run by people who should not be trusted. Check out their > remailer-operators list: it's full of announcements that some specific > person posted something via the remailer that the operator didn't like. Examples, please?

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Re: lead remailer is shut down
by Michael H. Warfield 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

zinc enscribed thusly: > The following message is a courtesy copy of an article > that has been posted as well. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > hi, > i came in today to find they (university system admins) had pulled the > plug on my machine. this is all because some luser spammed usenet > using the remailer on my machine. thanks a lot. Yeah? Did you find his ass? Kindly forward the coordinates of the body so we can desecrate the corpse! > so, the lead remailer is gone for good; it lasted almost exactly one > year. > it was nice while it lasted. Never used it but it is always sad to see the passing of a network resource due to the abuse by cretins with all the morals of an alley cat in heat... > - -patrick finerty > biochem grad student, u of utah > - -- > "Those that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary > safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (1773) > finger zinc-pgp@zifi for PGP key > zifi runs LINUX 2.0.28 -=-=-=WEB=-=-=-> http://zifi.genetics.utah.edu > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: 2.6.2 > Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.4, an Emacs/PGP interface > > iQCVAwUBMvqXqE3Qo/lG0AH5AQHsQgP+LJFyMCrYnackXVZqMuDRt2vgliYeWh2L > 6i3IgfCqMSxfScyLFQXMP7cRJT1oNWFEilmcBLURWOqK/hy4sAufRaNKNw/rvcOE > 4qYFyxm3IDwF3vqdgDnaj5LWISWxaVrglHL8wNKNBQDr1Eq6XVZiqYPT5UC00klt > clfXhusEPPg= > =0fse > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Mike -- Michael H. Warfield | (770) 985-6132 | mhw(a)WittsEnd.com (The Mad Wizard) | (770) 925-8248 | http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/ NIC whois: MHW9 | An optimist believes we live in the best of all PGP Key: 0xDF1DD471 | possible worlds. A pessimist is sure of it!

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My messages not appearing on either of the lists?
by Timothy C. May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Cypherpunks, My posting seem to be going into Limbo, being sent neither to the Cypherpunks Heaven Sandy administers nor to the flames of the Cypherpunks Hell. At least this is how things now appear. I sent the message below to the list this morning (Thursday) at 8:43 a.m. PST. As of tonight, 12 hours later, I haven't seen it on either the Singapore Web site--last archived 30 minutes ago--or on the "Flames" list to which I have temporarily subscribed (to see what Sandy counts as a "flame"). Has anyone else seen it? I've looked, but there's always a chance I somehow spaced out and missed it. (I doubt it though.) If I have missed it, despite carefully scanning for it for the past 8-12 hours, my apologies. If it has not appeared on either the Censored list or the Flames list, then something is rotten in the state of Denmark. By the way, I noted that many of the messages which appeared at the Singapore Web archive site have dates much later than mine, including several dated at least 8-10 hours after my message. Likewise, some of the Flames messages are dated much later than my message. (Bill Stewart got a message through dated Thu, 06 Feb 1997 16:06:06 -0800, Mark Henderson got one through at Thu, 6 Feb 1997 15:56:19 PST, and so on. One would thus have thought that my message, dated Thu, 6 Feb 1997 08:43:35 -0800, would by now either have been approved and hence on the Censored list, or rejected as unfit for Cypherpunks to sully their neurons with, and hence passed on to the Flames list. By the way, some of the "Flames" messages are also dated late afternoon or evening.) So, is my message just sitting around someplace, awaiting some final decision? What's the basis of this decision? (Perhaps Sandy has "kicked it upstairs" to John for him to decide on? Just a hypothesis....) I will repeat my message below. As you will be able to see, my message contains no "flames" of its own, and the messages it quotes do not seem flamish to me, either. (It is true that Vulis uses the phrase "Limey faggots," in reference to beer-serving habits, but he does not directly insult any list members with this phrase. If Sandy is calling this phrase a flame, then Cypherpunks will be blocked from their usual characterizations of Congresscritters and NSA stooges.) I think a delay of greater than 11 hours in being distributed on one of the two lists (even if my message is sent out in the next hour or so) is unacceptable. If a moderator cannot get to traffic in the order in which it was received and disposition it promptly, he or she has no business being a moderator of a high-volume list. (Eric Blossom's and Ray Arachelian's "best of" compilations are a different matter, for reasons discussed many times here.) So, why hasn't this message appeared on one of the two lists? --Tim May >Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 08:43:35 -0800 >To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com >From: "Timothy C. May" <tcmay(a)got.net> >Subject: Re: Moderation [Tim,Sandy] >Cc: >Bcc: >X-Attachments: > > >I decided to subscribe only to the "cypherpunks flames" list, just to see >what was being filtered into it. > >The message below is one example of what is going there. I received it, >and the header includes the line: "Sender: >owner-cypherpunks-unedited(a)toad.com", so I am surmising that it was indeed >filtered into the flames list. > >Now, admittedly, the _content_ of this kind of post is "off-topic," but I >sure don't see any evidence of _flames_. > >Is Sandy now filtering based on his notions of list relevance, and not >just on the basis of insults, jabs, flames, and "lack of comity"? While >lack of relevance may be a criterion for someone to filter by, it doesn't >square with anything I recall Sandy citing, and it introduces a new and >dimension to the debate. > >--Tim May > >(The entire post is included, to ensure that no one claims I am editing >out any flames, insults, etc.) > > >At 11:06 PM -0800 2/5/97, Dale Thorn wrote: >>Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: >>> Dale Thorn <dthorn(a)gte.net> writes: >> >>> > > > The drunk can be excluded, but when someone wants to use the drunk as >>> > > > an example to escalate the exclusion to other persons who are not in >>> > > > fact drunk, watch out! >> >>> > > If I get really really drunk, which happens very seldom, then I'm >>> > > too drunk to post. I don't mind an occasional beer, though. >> >>> > > Oksas, have you ever tried beer? :-) >> >>> > I had my first beer(s) in three years at one of those industrial >>> > parties last night. It made the craps table action seem a bit >>> > merrier, and the girls were friendlier too. >> >>> I like an occasional Coors Lite. BTW I think Limey Faggots are right about >>> one think: I like room-temperature beer better than cold beer. YMMV. >> >>Interesting coincidence for people on opposite coasts - the bar at >>the hotel had two choices: Bud regular and Coors light. I took the >>Coors. > > > > > Just say "No" to "Big Brother Inside" We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Dr. Denning
by Huge Cajones Remailer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dimwit Vermin is a pimply dweeb sitting at a computer chortling at his own imagined cleverness. _<_ (_|_( Dimwit Vermin \-._|_,-, `-----'

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remailer-operators DEA agents?
by Secret Squirrel 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: > c.musselman(a)internetmci.com (Charley Musselman) writes: > > C'punks -- > > When I told a friend about the alt.drugs.pot cultivation newsgroup > > and suggested that he use an anonymous remailer to post to the group, > > he laughed and said, "Who do you suppose runs the remailers? ATF, > > FBI, DEA, that's who!" Gee, it makes sense to this paranoid. Does > > anyone know the answer? Specifically, how can we choose a trusted > > remailer? > > Even if the feds are not directtly involved, the so-called "cypher punk" > remailers are run by people who should not be trusted. Check out their > remailer-operators list: it's full of announcements that some specific > person posted something via the remailer that the operator didn't like. Examples, please?

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