December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: LJL into key-escrow? (was Re: The Balloon is Going Up....criminalization of noncompliant crypto)
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Kent Crispin wrote: > On Wed, Apr 02, 1997 at 12:03:27AM +0100, Adam Back wrote: > > "Entrust" is a company Kent has been quoting to > > us in a long running thread on cpunks, as an example of how companies > > really want "key-escrow". > > Just so things are clear, the reasoning is as follows: > 1) Entrust provides a product that includes enterprise > key escrow. > 2) <useless redundancy> > 3) The point of my posting it was to illustrate > that industry perceives a market. > 4) Entrust is a product I happen to be familiar with. You go > to "security" trade shows and you see other companies as > well. Kent, You should try to refrain from embarassing yourself by referring to the above as "reasoning". I'm of a like mind with Bill Stewart and Dr. Robert's, or whoever, who appear to think that compromises on privacy and freedom lead to yellow stars and barbed-wire fences. Now, if you could just give us similar examples to illustrate how the burdgeoning market for Zyklon-B showed that corporations *really wanted* the Holocaust... Or how the Allied POW's in the Battan Death March *really wanted* to go for a walk in the country... -- Toto "The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre" http://bureau42.base.org/public/xenix/xenbody.html

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Hettinga rants in Cleveland at 3PM on WERE
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Kevin Miller, a talk show host in Cleveland, is going to have me on his local radio show at 3PM EST today to talk about e$, geodesic markets/societies, strong crypto, digital bearer securities, and anything else I can dream up. :-). For those of you in Cleveland, the radio station is WERE, and I don't know whether it's AM or FM. Evidently, he also has a national radio show, with a simulcast (? could be a tape to realaudio thing, though) on the net. I'm going to be on *that*, also live, at 8PM tomorrow night. More details as I know them. Cheers, Bob Hettinga ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA Lesley Stahl: "You mean *anyone* can set up a web site and compete with the New York Times?" Andrew Kantor: "Yes." Stahl: "Isn't that dangerous?" The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/

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Re: Sabotaging Big Brother Inside Corporate Complicity
by nobody＠huge.cajones.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Kent Crispin wrote: > On Tue, Apr 01, 1997 at 03:45:47PM -0800, "TruthMonger" wrote: > > > No matter what lengths the government goes to to infringe > > on basic human rights, there will always be individuals and > > corporations fighting over who gets to profit from the actions, > > all the while claiming, "We don't put them in the ovens, we > > just turn on the gas." > > Oh, we're to the death camps, are we? I guess that counts as > invoking Hitler. ...or how Native Americans who died on the Trail of Tears *really wanted* to go for a walk in the country? > > TruthMonger > > "We have met the enemy, and he is Kent." > Actually, you don't have a clue what I think, what my motives > are, or what I favor. Awareness of reality is the first requirement > for sanity. The reality is, dropping the .gov sig-reference _doesn't_ count as 'devoking' Clinton. And given the muddled nature of your thinking on key escrow, I'm not sure whether either one of us has a clue as to what you think. As far as your motives go, that's a matter between you and the Cosmic Muffin. The road to Key Escrow is paved with good intentions. (All of the Chinese got used up building the railroads.) TruthMonger

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Re: Sabotaging Big Brother Inside Corporate Complicity
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hal Finney wrote: > There are two somewhat related technologies being discussed here, as Kent > lists: key escrow and multiple encryption. > > However, as Tim points out, really both approaches can be adapted to > a Big Brother situation. If the government can force you to escrow > your keys, it could equally well force you to encrypt to the FBI as an > additional recipient. Key escrow amounts to both and more. In escrowing your keys, you are doing so to the FBI, the CIA, the Department of Agriculture, Social Services, the janitor at the Key Escrow holding facility, etc. Should we put our faith in the 'good intentions' claimed by those promoting key escrow? Talk to the grandmothers whose cars were confiscated because their dear grandson left a roach in the ashtray, under authority of the laws that were supposed to thwart drug kingpins. Key escrow is needed so that grandmothers of the future, plugging the parking meters of strangers with eCa$h, cannot escape prosecution by using encryption. > I see > supporting multiple recipients in the way outlined above as being an > effort to *avoid* building "big brother inside". Otherwise key escrow > is what many employees are going to get. If other people don't see it > that way, I'd like to know. In lean econonomical times, employees tend to get whatever they are given...end of story. If the employees are to get something other than Big Brother type of control over their work-lives, then it is up to those such as the CypherPunks and others who value privacy to promote viable options for corporations to choose from in the security area. If the only security options that a corporate manager has is no control or total control, then there will be those who will be forced by circumstances to opt for the latter, regardless of whether they find it personally distasteful. Indeed, members of the Tim C. May Corporate Sabatoge Revolutionary Committee may well find that they can sabatoge the government's evil intentions without harming their employer's position, merely by making an effort to ensure that their company's product gives the undercover Human Rights agents that have infiltrated corporate management an option to choose a product that they can customize with a view toward maintaining both company security and employee privacy. Let's face it, the government will roll over anyone who is unarmed, and have Kent issue a press release suggesting that the citizens were crying out for tank-tread marks on their backs. The solution is to provide as many workable products/solutions as possible for those who feel a need for encryption, so that they may customize their use of it according to their own inclinations and level of conscience. The government always seems to have extra munitions on hand to give to would-be dictators, it is up to disorganizations such as the CypherPunks to make certain that the citizens have the opportunity to arm themselves, as well. -- Toto "The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre" http://bureau42.base.org/public/xenix/xenbody.html

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Re: Analysis of proposed UK ban on use of non-escrowed crypto
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

A. Padgett Peterson P.E. Information Security wrote: > > Personally think these proposals are "fliers", things so bad that the > radicals will get hung up on elements the gov could really care less about. > Tricky part is to pick out what complies with the *real* agenda. Sounds like you got caught 'bending over' in the past, and learned from the experience. How about a law that requires all politicians to speak through an interpreter? Say, Howard Stern? (Only because Lenny Bruce is dead.) -- Toto "The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre" http://bureau42.base.org/public/xenix/xenbody.html

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Re: LJL into key-escrow? (was Re: The Balloon is Going Up....criminalization of noncompliant crypto)
by Kent Crispin 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Wed, Apr 02, 1997 at 12:26:55PM -0600, Toto wrote: [...] > > Kent, > You should try to refrain from embarassing yourself by referring > to the above as "reasoning". Obviously, I embarass easily. > I'm of a like mind with Bill Stewart and Dr. Robert's, or whoever, > who appear to think that compromises on privacy and freedom lead to > yellow stars and barbed-wire fences. Do you work for a living? > Now, if you could just give us similar examples to illustrate > how the burdgeoning market for Zyklon-B showed that corporations > *really wanted* the Holocaust... Hitler again. You lose. -- Kent Crispin "No reason to get excited", kent(a)songbird.com the thief he kindly spoke... PGP fingerprint: B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44 61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55 http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html

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Re: LJL into key-escrow? (was Re: The Balloon is Going Up....criminalization of noncompliant crypto)
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Kent Crispin, lacking valid arguments, asked: > > Do you work for a living? I'm an undercover liquor store owner. I use PGP ski-masks to retain my anonymity when picking up the night's receipts. (It's kind of a freelance 'cash escrow' type of concept.) -- Toto "The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre" http://bureau42.base.org/public/xenix/xenbody.html

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q.N2
by nadeshda＠mexred.net.mx 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

To whom it may concern: Thank you for answering my mail, it was very useful for me, but at the end you asked me why do I think legislation would be needed? I have several opinions: In one part I think that it is not necessary to legislate, because as you said you have to protect your privacy from the gobernent, IŽm agree of that, but I have other situations: IŽm going to give you some examples: 1) I heard about several cases about individuals who use the Internet to attract children who are then raped and murdered, kidnapped and sold on the black market, many of these pediophiles work out in open in complete anonimaty, due to the structure of the Internet and many service providers. 2) And what about the terroists who use the Internet to comunicate with each other, gather information and funding establish methods, investigate methods of terrorism (how to make a bomb in your house using abono and household chemicals. This is an area that should be strongly controlled, but the question is how do you do it without restricting the rights of the average citizen?

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Junger v. Secretary of State
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

We offer Peter Junger pleadings against the Secretary of State and the government's responses: "This action is brought by a law professor under the First Amendment challenging United States export laws that he claims infringe upon his rights to speak and publish encryption software and other encryption information." Several prominent cryptographers and NSA officials have provided declarations in connection with the suit. http://jya.com/pdj.htm

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Re: Bot-generated insults
by Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Mixmaster wrote: > > Now, you too can act like a total asshole and send anonymous slams to mailing > lists and newsgroups making it impossible to killfile. Been there, done that. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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