December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

No Subject
by Mix 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timothy C[reep] May's family tree goes straight up. All of his ancestors were siblings, to dumb to recognize each other in the dark. /\ o-/\ Timothy C[reep] May ///\|/\\\ / /|\ \

2 1

Re: The Blessing of Keys
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hal Finney wrote: > I don't know about Tim's idea of claiming that a key signature is a > religious act. That sounds pretty bizarre to me. I wouldn't be so certain about that. Give the CypherPunks history of treating PGP as a Holy Icon, I think a good case could be made for building a religion around key signatures. Apparently, however, not all CypherPunks can be considered 'True Believers'. I, among others, checked out the information in the anonymous post which indicated press reports of the RSA algorithm being broken. I suppose that now I will be denied the opportunity to partake of the PGP Sacrament at the next CypherMass. -- Toto "The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre" http://bureau42.base.org/public/xenix/xenbody.html

1 0

Mutual Link Proposal
by mail＠mkljk.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hello, my name is Guy W. Rochefort, President of Dino Jump International. I found your address through YAHOO. Dino Jump International are specialists in manufacturing and distribution of Interactive Inflatables worldwide. My lines have been featured in Walt Disney productions, NFL shows, and NBA events. Our product lines include moonwalkers, bouncehouses, and castles. I am interested in mutual links on our respective webpages beneficial to both our businesses. Additionally, I am interested in opening dialog on mutual beneficial business dealings as far as wholesale/retail efforts for manufactured products from my factory and/or resale distribution at competitive pricing. Please come visit my site at http://www.dinojump.com or email sales1(a)dinojump.com or call me at 1-800-570-3466 or 619-754-5186. If this email is intrusive I apologize and you will not hear further from me. Thank you again and I am looking forward to doing business with you. Guy

1 0

Resurrect yourself
by shiftcontrol＠nml.guardian.co.uk 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In this week's Easter Fools' Issue of Shift Control: "Not only did Christ not die on the cross, but his body was never placed in the tomb at Golgotha. Indeed, by the infamous "third day" Christ had most likely already rounded the Italian coast and was, for all we know, exchanging anecdotes with Sardinian crab merchants." - Paul Robinson on the imminent resurrection of Jesus's freshly discovered remains. "The post-war baby-boomer generation keeps getting ever more wistful for its lost youth. Bowie begat Suede; the Beatles and the Small Faces begat Brit pop; Rod Stewart begat everything in a skirt in the Seventies and these days his torch is carried by Mark Morrison." - Robin Hunt on the resurrection of nostalgia. "Identical lambs are gambolling in the fields. Six-legged featherless chickens are hatching from their eggs. Piglets ready to offer their organs for every transplant need are snuffling in the new grass. A herd of calves trot happily to the slaughterhouse. It's Easter, time of regeneration and renewal, and all is well with the world." - Bronwen Davies on genetic manipulation and cloning: resurrection for the Nineties. "The gods we buried previously now arise as green shoots and come into their own at the harvest. We drink their blood and eat their flesh when we pass around the wine, beer, bread and cakes in the glorious evenings of autumn. For pagans the deities symbolise the fruits of the year - Christianity, for some reason, chose to reverse this." - Druid Steve Wilson on resurrection, pagan-style "There are a number of things I would require of anyone who would be able to clone me. I would first require that he make two clones instead of one. Next, I would demand that neither of these cloned boys be circumcised. I was and although I do not remember the experience I do well remember when I had my tonsils taken out." - Robert Nicolai on how he should be resurrected through cloning. Also this week: Your chance to win 200 quid in our fiction competition; more memoirs from Freebee the rock 'n' roll bee; and our latest quiz: how wild are you about Jesus? All this and more, waiting and willing at: http://www.shiftcontrol.com ------------------------------------------------------------------ Shift Control is produced by the Guardian's New Media Lab with help from Boddingtons and Stella Artois Dry To unsubscribe from this mailing list send e-mail to shiftcontrol-request(a)nml.guardian.co.uk with the following text in the body of the mail message: unsubscribe

1 0

CypherPunks Hash Distribution Network / Combined thread
by Truth Mongrel 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > As far as I understand, the process of building a distributed network of > cypherpunks mailing lists is logically complete. It means that the following > list servers are now connected: > ssz.com <---> algebra <----> cyberpass > Again, you are free to do so and your Cc-copies will NOT cause any > duplication of traffic because each mailing list server employs an > anti-duplicate filter. It is just a waste of your keyboard typing. > Dale Thorn @ bat: >> That's funny - I unsuscrived to toad, and 'scribed to cyberpass and >> algebra. I have been getting an average of 2-1/2 of each message >> that comes through. Mostly three's, a few two's, and an occasional >> five or six copies. It sounds to me as if we might already have a naturally recurring parallax to a hash-collusion system here. In other misued words, perchance the ASCII art spams and multiple copies of various posts, which became common fare for anyone who followed the moderation/censorship experiment/dictatorship of Gilmore/Sandfort and Toad/C2Net in Jan/Feb, are nature's way of exacting a cost for subscription to the CypherPunks list(s). Perhaps the good Dr.Vulis DV K, rather than being called a flamer, should be referred to as our good friend, Mr. Fire, who helps to clear the deadwood out of the forest. Apparently, over a thousand pieces of deadwood were cleared in the last cycle of flamewars. ("Run, Bambi. Run!") Below, agreeing with me (in my dreams): Hal Finney wrote: > Adam Back writes: > > [ Re idea to for a nym to "post a bond" to enhance reputation] > > Your suggestion is another neat way of passing expense and tying an > > investment to a nyms reputation. > > X-reputation: 64 bit SHA1 collision > > or > > X-reputation: $100 digicash > > > Don't forget though, it's not really a payment system. The hash > collisions can't be exchanged for anything in the real world. > They represent a certain threshold of effort which someone has to have ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ (emphasis mine) > expended to create them, but they can't replace cash. At best they > could be sort of a "play money" which some people choose to accept. > > I do like your idea of using it as an incoming spam filter, though. > (By spam I mean mass mailings.) Which begs the question, is the current system capable of acting as an outgoing filter? Can it glean out the losers who are cruising for an easy view of cryptography issues, and help maintain a higher level of membership, limiting it to losers who have a more dedicated interest/psychosis in privacy/paranoia cryptography/disinformation issues. > > - and anyway I've nearly finished implementing it (I'll post the hash > > cash postage money mint (collision generator) and remailer plug-in > > for postage later on today) where as not many people have digicash > > accounts. Perhaps if Dale developed an 'outgoing filter' system to go with Adam's 'incoming filter' system, we could have the best of both worlds, being saved from "Make $$$ Fast" spams, but having to use our delete keys to ante-up in regard to our own list loons. We could also institute a 'bad hash' system, where bad-hashes like Tim C. May could use their guns to balance the threat of legal actions from bad-hashes like Greg Broiles. With new developments such as these, to thwart the efforts of anti-thwarters to bring balance and sanity to the list, perhaps the CypherPunks can bypass the inevitable evolutionary extinction of the 'bug-fixed' victims of insect vasectomies, and bring in the new millenium as the longest running wash-out-your-mouth-with Soap Opera on the InterNet, staying one step ahead of the guys with the ButterflyNet. The Truth of the Mongrel is, that we obviously need to develop a system that makes certain the spam we receive is CypherSpam. The loons on the list should be CypherLoons. Our membership should consist of CypherIdiots, CypherNewbies, CypherElitists, CypherLosers, CypherCynics, CypherSpooks and CypherGenius'. Where else can movers and shakers like Robert Hettinga join in an list-takeover attempt, call for the killing of the list, and then, like a whirling dervish acting as his own spin doctor, re-appear, riding on the back of the CypherXenix rising from the ashes, and genuinely declare, "I *love* this list."? Where else can CypherWoofers like Toto roundly condemn Sandfart <spit>* and Gilmore <swallow>* as fascist censors, then praise his own bum-buddy, Igor Chewed-Off <commie>*, for his site blocking efforts, and then cynically whine when his own "Make Big $$$ Licking Your Own Nuts At Home" bulk-emails are intercepted and deleted? (* - ASCII Graphicology allegedly (c) DV K Bot-ling Plant, No-Inc.) Where else can Afro-American cryptographers have their native tongue, Ebonics, recognized as a valid encryption system? Where else can you be guaranteed that your typoos will be forwarded to Ft. Meade, to be pored over by military analysts for hidden meaning, quite possibly launching world infowars as a result of drunken, sticky fingers. The CypherPunks list, love it or leave it, is still, far and away, the best show in town. ("If I can make it theeerrre...I can make it anywheeerrre..") And the way this relates to cryptography is...my brain is scrambled/encrypted. Anarchist (Don't) Rule! Truth Mongrel ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Just say "No" to "Bad Dog Inside" We got nuts, we're peeing on telephone poles, I know that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Truth Mongrel | Doggie Anarchy: cats chased, bones buried, tm(a)woof.nut | anonymous droppings, analog come-calling Woof! Woof! | legs lifted, territories marked "Yard fences aren't even speed bumps on the garbage sniffing alleyway."

4 3

Re: remailer spam throttle
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 01:40 PM 3/30/97 -0800, Lucky Green <shamrock(a)netcom.com> wrote: >Reply blocks are unreliable anyway. Yeah, but they're a moderately useful kluge in that they let you separate the information about how to find an anonymous recipient into at least two places, which is far more secure than just one. They're relatively annoying to use, but the nymserver approach makes it possible to use them without the average user messing with the details. >The current piggy backing of recipient anonymity >on systems designed to provide sender anonymity can not work reliably and >must therefore be replaced by a separate design. Is this a distributed-commercial-remailer-boxes approach, or something different? It's a hard problem to do right. In a large-scale system, one good design is to have a Pipenet or equivalent that's used to pick up POP-mail. It needs enough traffic/users/bandwidth to achieve Obscurity, but if you could convince people to carry their Usenet feeds as cover traffic, that'd be more than enough :-) Store-and-forward variants are less reliable, but may do a good enough job, or I suppose you could cook up some sort of distributed message pools. # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp # (If this is a mailing list, please Cc: me on replies. Thanks.)

1 0

[ANNOUNCE] hash cash postage implementation
by Adam Back 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

A partial hash collision based postage scheme I've been talking about a partial hash collision based postage scheme on the crypto lists for the last few days. The idea of using partial hashes is that they can be made arbitrarily expensive to compute (by choosing the desired number of bits of collision), and yet can be verified instantly. A first cut implementation of these ideas can be fetched from here: * hashcash.tgz * PGP signature of hashcash.tgz I will describe what the implementation allows by example, using the program so you can follow along if you wish. There is an integrated partial hash collision generator (hashcash mint) and remailer plug-in. The remailer plug-in should be easy to hook into typeI remailers. typeII or nymserver would require modifying the mixmaster client/remailer, the code has been designed to make this relatively easy to do, and link directly into mixmaster, or alpha or newnym. Compiling % gcc -O6 -c *.c % gcc -o hashcash hashcash.o sha1.o % gcc -o sha1 sha1file.o sha1.o % gcc -o sha1test sha1test.o sha1.o % The functions provided by the program are Run with no arguments and it prints a list of flags and terse usage instructions. Speed test: % hashcash -t speed: 7218 hashes per sec % This tells you the number of hashes it can search per second. (Note, the implementation of sha1 it is using is not optimised, it is my reference implementation. I have another speed freak sha1 implementation which needs 1/2 hrs work, and has the same interface, so I'll plug it in later. It's commented in sha1.c). Estimate time required to find 17-bit partial hash collision: % hashcash -t -17 speed: 7274 hashes per sec find: 17 bit partial sha1 collision estimate: 9 seconds % (varies quite widely from estimated time) Calculate a 17 bit collision on string "flame" (flame is a now dead remailer): % hashcash -17 flame speed: 7274 hashes per sec find: 17 bit partial sha1 collision collision: 09948flame356018443 tries: 57450 % The collision is actually found on the hash of the date since Jan 1 1970 in days (5 digit leading zero filled) and string given. So the collision is found on: % echo -n 09948flame | sha1 fbbea210abafe3e72afe7849eaea2052e309e017 % The collision that was found can be seen manually as the collision is constrained to be the MSbits of the digest: % echo -n 09948flame356018443 | sha1 fbbead76da651cf856f7466fed9624d3ada061d9 % You can manually see that the first 20 bits match. (Note we asked for a 17 bit hash, but it generates a 17 bit or larger hash. We just got lucky and got an extra 3 bits, which would happen about 1 time in 8). The hashcash client can also report on a collision: % hashcash flame 09948flame356018443 collision: 20 bits % You can check on the validity period as compared to todays date: % hashcash flame 09948flame356018443 28 validity: 28 days remaining collision: 20 bits % You can check that a hash has a requested number of bits: % hashcash -25 flame 09948flame356018443 collision: 20 bits required: 25 bits rejected: too few bits % The exit status is set to failure if any of the tests fail: ie if there are too few bits, or if you do a validity check and the hash has expired, or isn't yet in it's validity period. Double spending protection You can also ask the hashcash client to remember collisions within a selected validity period. % hashcash -d -25 flame 09948flame356018443 28 validity: 28 days remaining collision: 20 bits required: 20 bits database: not double spent adding: 28 09948flame356018443 % The collision will only be added if all the tests pass (in validity period, required number of bits). The exit status also tells you if the hash was ok. The database would grow indefinately as the mailer accepted new payments, so the validity period is stored in the database, and at the next use of the database after the validity period expires, the collision will be discarded. There is no need to keep expired collisions around because we wouldn't accetp it anyway because it's out of date, so who cares if we've previously accepted it. A validity period of 0 means valid forever, and it will never be discarded from the database. An example of double spending A new test now is whether a hash has been presented before, so we the above command and expect it to be rejected as already spent, because it is in the database: % hashcash -d -25 flame 09948flame356018443 28 validity: 28 days remaining collision: 20 bits required: 25 bits rejected: too few bits database: double spent % (exit status is set to failure, due to double spent cash) That's it It's very lightly tested, so if anything breaks let me know. It's got some inefficiencies in places, but working code comes first, efficiency later. (Also I have not tested my SHA1 implementation on a big endian machine, it auto-detects byte endian-ness, theoretically). Remailer applications discussed so far * exit remailer postage per post * spam filter on mail you receive, if it hasn't got a 20 bit hash, or 1c digicash you have a program which bounces it with a notice explaining the required postage, and where to obtain software from. This would put spammers out of business overnight, as 1,000,000 x 20 = 100 MIP years which is going to be more compute than they've got, and 1,000,000 x 1c = $10,000 is going to be more than they are likely to make through sales interest from the spam. * good behaviour bond for nymserver users. The nymserver user pays the nymserver (in a largish hash collision, or $25 digicash) for a replyable nymserver account. They agree an contract with the penalty clause that breaking the contract means the nymserver keeps the digicash/collision, and disables the account. They user's identity isn't known, but to join in again they have to pay up another large hash collision or more digicash. * there are lots of other ideas to play with. How does this fit in with digicash Digicash postage on remailers, and mail would be useful, however there are a number of problems with digicash: * It is more onerous to set up an account (form filling etc) * Not many people have accounts * It's only anonymous for the payer anonymous (and not anonymous for the seller) So my suggestion is that we have remailers which accept either hash collision postage, or digicash postage. The advantages of this approach are: * Hashcash may provide a stop gap measure until digicash becomes more widely used * Hashcash is free, all you've got to do is burn some cycles on your PC. It is in keeping with net culture of free discourse, where the financially challenged can duke it out with millionaires, retired government officials, etc on equal terms. * Hashcash may provide us with a fall back method for controling spam if digicash goes sour (gets outlawed or required to escrow user identities). Any comments, code, etc gratefully received. A couple of remailers alpha testing it would be nice also. Adam -- Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/ print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0<X+d*lMLa^*lN%0]dsXx++lMlN/dsM0<J]dsJxp"|dc`

2 2

Accounts payable
by nobody＠huge.cajones.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tim C[reep] May has been a source of endless embarassments to his sympathizers on and off the net. o \ o / _ o __| \ / |__ o _ \ o / o /|\ | /\ ___\o \o | o/ o/__ /\ | /|\ Tim C[reep] May / \ / \ | \ /) | ( \ /o\ / ) | (\ / | / \ / \

2 1

RE: Hard to Tax Scenario
by Lucky Green 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:24 PM 3/29/97 -0500, Robert Hettinga wrote: >(By the way, I'm going to embarass Doug Barnes now by naming a law after >him. He said a thing of beauty at FC97: "Any transaction protocol which >has, as one of it's steps, '...and then you call the cops', isn't a real >good idea on the internet." Shall we call it Barnes' Law, anyone? Sure, >lots have said it before, but no one's said it better...) Actually, I think it was "...and then you punish them". I second the motion. :-) -- Lucky Green <mailto:shamrock@netcom.com> PGP encrypted mail preferred "I do believe that where there is a choice only between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence." Mahatma Gandhi

2 1

Re: Microsoft ammunition (fwd)
by Hallam-Baker 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Jim Choate wrote: > > Forwarded message: > > > Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 16:11:50 -0600 > > From: Toto <toto(a)sk.sympatico.ca> > > Subject: Microsoft ammunition > > > But, if you're tired of the repetition, here's a > > reason you should sit through another sermon: > > RandomNoise's Coda. Coda lets you design entire > > Web pages in Java rather than use a mixture of > > HTML content, tags, and Java applets. > > > > A Java-based Web page removes the distinction > > between application and data. It presents data > > just as an HTML page would, but every element on > > the screen has the potential to be an interactive > > part of a sophisticated application. > > Mix this with the distributed processing model of Plan 9 and you may just > have tomorrows computer environment. I very much hope not. We designed HTML with very specific goals in mind, above all that the source be declarative and machine readable. That is why HTML can be edited by the recipient, fed into a voice synth or index by Alta-Vista. The Java based web pages will be opaque, just like postscript. Try to cut and paste from ghostview to emacs. Merging the distinction between applet and code will give lots of techno-geeks a nice orgasm but its the style of computing the Web has replaced. I have yet to see a single Java applet that has the slightest functional utility. I like Java as a language, particularly because it has killed C++ stone dead just as everyone thought it had taken over the world. I don't see that anyone has done anything with mobile code that is of interest however. If all you want is a better user interface add some more tags into HTML, implement Dave Raggets '94 draft perhaps. I think the idea of using Java to move an applet from the client to a server is very exciting but thats not in the Sun/Oracle game plan. The hypertext community had been beating the coda type model for decades before the Web. I was skeptical then and I'm more skeptical now. I turned Javascript, Active-X and Java off about 9 months back because I had little confidence in their security. I soon realised I was much happier when the page did not dance about in front of my eyes. I very rarely come to a site I can't access without them. If I could turn off animated Gifs as well I would be even happier. I think the future of computing is much more likely to lie in returning to simple but powerfull ideas. Presentation types, parallel languages and genuine process oriented object systems interest me much more. Phill

2 1