December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: overview.htm (fwd)
by ichudov＠algebra.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > > Dale Thorn wrote: > > Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: > > > > > > > Both homosexual males and IV drug users are well known to take a lot > > > > > of antobiotics, which lowers the efficacy of the immune system enough > > > > > to allow most anything to happen, ultimately leading to auto-immune > > > > > problems. > > > > > Jim and Dale, I agree. > > > Also shooting one's bloodstream full of fecal matter hardly helps. > > > > My point about the antibiotics is that the male gays take a dis- > > proportionate amount of them, which compounds their problems. It > > suggests to me that the immune system is already seriously debilitated > > or damaged before AIDS can take hold, rather than the notion that a > > healthy person can get it from the virii alone. Dale's hypothesis seems at odds with the linkage of aids and blood transfusion and transmission through needles. Nurses who contract aids through contaminated needles do not, normally, have devastated immune systems. - Igor.

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Re: overview.htm (fwd)
by ichudov＠algebra.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dale Thorn wrote: > Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: > > > > > Both homosexual males and IV drug users are well known to take a lot > > > > of antobiotics, which lowers the efficacy of the immune system enough > > > > to allow most anything to happen, ultimately leading to auto-immune > > > > problems. > > > Jim and Dale, I agree. > > Also shooting one's bloodstream full of fecal matter hardly helps. > > My point about the antibiotics is that the male gays take a dis- > proportionate amount of them, which compounds their problems. It > suggests to me that the immune system is already seriously debilitated > or damaged before AIDS can take hold, rather than the notion that a > healthy person can get it from the virii alone. > > One could argue that in the cases where the cures (antibiotics) add to > a person's problems by further corrupting their immune system, that > they should simply change their habits. Since I don't see that as a > reasonable possibility, the only thing left is that the public should > be made aware of *all* of the relevant facts, even those which are > heavily suppressed now for PC reasons. Why do they take antibiotics? Just curious. Also, I haven't heard that antibiotics were bad for immune system, has that been proven? - Igor.

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Re: Scandinavian Goverments provide PGP to postal customers...
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 05:44 AM 1/25/97 -0800, Lucky Green wrote: >At 06:29 PM 1/24/97 -0800, Hugh Daniel wrote: >> FYI: >>>From: jsp(a)betz.biostr.washington.edu >[...] >>> However, some hardware is required. Because the key is on a >>> smartcard, users must have smartcard readers installed on their >>> computers, which aren't yet widely available. But Pdr Andler of >>> Finnish Hewlett Packard says that later this year, smartcard readers >>> will become standard on computers in Scandinavia. >[...] > >Interesting piece of trivia: I recently talked with a fellow from Intel. They are looking to purchase keyboards with smartcard readers built in. They hope to get them at $30/piece from suppliers in Asia. The lot size? 10 million. I suppose this is good news. I just hope they implement a system, like Chaum's low-knowledge/zero-knowledge systems, which make it difficult or impossible for snoops or tampered hardware to leak useful information. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Re: Rejection policy of the Cypherpunks mailing list
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: > Toto <toto(a)sk.sympatico.ca> writes: > > paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk wrote: > > It became rather glaringly obvious after moderation was announced > > that class structure would be the defining feature of moderation. > > Those who felt themselves to be in the 'upper class' made no > > bones about it. > > That's a very insightful obeservation. Obese-rvation? I hope you are not assuming that I am obese, just because I am responding to a post originating from 'fatmans.demon.co.uk.' I would hate to become relegated to the upcoming cypherpunks-fatpeople list because of assumptions of this nature. Toto

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Re: overview.htm (fwd)
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > > Dale Thorn wrote: > > > My point about the antibiotics is that the male gays take a dis- > > > proportionate amount of them, which compounds their problems. It > > > suggests to me that the immune system is already seriously debilitated > > > or damaged before AIDS can take hold, rather than the notion that a > > > healthy person can get it from the virii alone. > Dale's hypothesis seems at odds with the linkage of aids and blood > transfusion and transmission through needles. > Nurses who contract aids through contaminated needles do not, > normally, have devastated immune systems. Let's be realistic about how AIDS is acquired. A small analogy: In my pockets I carry two wallets, one with $100's and the other with smaller change, about 50 bills in various small denominations. Let's say tomorrow I spend a $10 bill at the bookstore, and the guy behind the counter says "this is a phony bill". So where did I get it? Well, if pocket change were always LIFO (last in, first out), I might be able to remember, but there's a good chance I wouldn't, since I go to a lot of places and do a lot of small transactions. Now I'm only talking 50 or so small bills, acquired and redistributed over a period of at most a few months. AIDS, OTOH, is likely to be a development from years of 1) Contact with germs, chemicals, food additives, antibiotics other medical treatments, sexual contact, etc. and 2) Immune-suppressing activities such as lack of sleep and exercise, anxiety and stress, and so on. It seems to me that "proof" of someone acquiring AIDS from one stab with a contaminated needle is a very nebulous thing. As far as nurses go, the contact I've had with many of them tells me they are also (on average) drug users extraordinaire. Again, you'll be able to find a very clean hospital in a big city with a bunch of nice clean nurses in it (a lot of sweet old ladies is the image coming to mind), but this is as unrealistic as Leave It To Beaver and other 1950's nonsense.

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Re: overview.htm (fwd)
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > Dale Thorn wrote: > > > > > Both homosexual males and IV drug users are well known to take a lot > > > > > of antobiotics, which lowers the efficacy of the immune system enough > > > > > to allow most anything to happen, ultimately leading to auto-immune > > > > > problems. > > > Jim and Dale, I agree. > > > Also shooting one's bloodstream full of fecal matter hardly helps. > > My point about the antibiotics is that the male gays take a dis- > > proportionate amount of them, which compounds their problems. It > > suggests to me that the immune system is already seriously debilitated > > or damaged before AIDS can take hold, rather than the notion that a > > healthy person can get it from the virii alone. > > One could argue that in the cases where the cures (antibiotics) add to > > a person's problems by further corrupting their immune system, that > > they should simply change their habits. Since I don't see that as a > > reasonable possibility, the only thing left is that the public should > > be made aware of *all* of the relevant facts, even those which are > > heavily suppressed now for PC reasons. > Why do they take antibiotics? Just curious. I'm not precisely sure, but remember, I'm not saying that your typical suburban, well-to-do, successful gay male falls into this category. There are, OTOH, a lot of people in the city who have lifestyles which are not represented accurately in the prime-time sitcoms, and the ones who fall into the greatest health-risk category are IV drug users and gay males (in the city, remember - i.e., Santa Monica boulevard). Remember too those ads for male sexual lubricants - you cannot use a condom with those lubricants. Safe sex, I don't think so. > Also, I haven't heard that antibiotics were bad for immune system, > has that been proven? You're kidding, yes? Anything besides good food, exercise, sleep etc. is bad for the immune system. Antibiotics (usually "dead" germs of some sort) are horrendous things to inject directly into your system. In October 1959, after lapsing into a coma from a massive sinus infection, I was given "a million units of penicillin" in the children's hospital when first admitted. I recovered OK after two weeks, so I'm certainly not opposed to antibiotics for those who really need them. OTOH, our U.S. economy today is antibiotic- and-hormone crazy, injecting cows, pigs, and chickens to name a few animals, all in the hopes of raising production. So why is the rate of cancer going up so high? It seems nearly everyone I know is getting this degenerate disease when they get older. Check out the videos by Howard Lyman, who used to be a big-time "chemical" farmer. One quote: "My soil after a few years was like asbestos".

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Re: overview.htm (fwd)
by ichudov＠algebra.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dale Thorn wrote: > Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > > > One could argue that in the cases where the cures (antibiotics) add to > > > a person's problems by further corrupting their immune system, that > > > they should simply change their habits. Since I don't see that as a > > > reasonable possibility, the only thing left is that the public should > > > be made aware of *all* of the relevant facts, even those which are > > > heavily suppressed now for PC reasons. > > > Why do they take antibiotics? Just curious. > > I'm not precisely sure, but remember, I'm not saying that your typical > suburban, well-to-do, successful gay male falls into this category. > > There are, OTOH, a lot of people in the city who have lifestyles which > are not represented accurately in the prime-time sitcoms, and the ones > who fall into the greatest health-risk category are IV drug users and > gay males (in the city, remember - i.e., Santa Monica boulevard). > > Remember too those ads for male sexual lubricants - you cannot use > a condom with those lubricants. Safe sex, I don't think so. That does not come close to a theory that would explain HIV away. > > Also, I haven't heard that antibiotics were bad for immune system, > > has that been proven? > > You're kidding, yes? Anything besides good food, exercise, sleep etc. > is bad for the immune system. Antibiotics (usually "dead" germs of > some sort) are horrendous things to inject directly into your system. This may very well be true. I try to never use antibiotics, because I had allergy when I was a child and I also do not like taking any medications. There needs to be something more convincing than these generic statements, if you want to create some plausible theory. > In October 1959, after lapsing into a coma from a massive sinus > infection, I was given "a million units of penicillin" in the > children's hospital when first admitted. I recovered OK after > two weeks, so I'm certainly not opposed to antibiotics for those > who really need them. OTOH, our U.S. economy today is antibiotic- > and-hormone crazy, injecting cows, pigs, and chickens to name a few > animals, all in the hopes of raising production. So why is the rate > of cancer going up so high? It seems nearly everyone I know is > getting this degenerate disease when they get older. Check out the > videos by Howard Lyman, who used to be a big-time "chemical" farmer. > One quote: "My soil after a few years was like asbestos". As far as I understand, 1) no one really understands why cancer rates are up so much and 2) since people live longer, they are more likely do have cancer. What you said is one of the hypotheses. I personally feel that environment and bad greasy food are other major contributors. The way they cook all these fries, with overheated grease, is very bad. - Igor.

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Corelation
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

My database seems to indicate a direct co-relation between the number of postings criticizing moderation and the number of UCE/Spam postings showing up on the list. i.e. When there are a number of postings critizizing Sandy's moderation, then the diversionary UCE/Spam postings increase dramatically. Has anyone actually 'seen' John Gilmore, lately? Since there have been a number of postings indicating that the writer 'used to respect' Gilmore, I am wondering if perhaps this moderation experiment is not actually an attempt by someone to discredit him. Perhaps he is being held hostage somewhere, while the more nefarious elements among us are trying to besmirch his good name by using it to promote willy-nilly censorship and class-elitism. Toto

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Re: Scandinavian Goverments provide PGP to postal customers...
by Lucky Green 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 09:50 PM 1/25/97 -0800, jim bell wrote: >>Interesting piece of trivia: I recently talked with a fellow from Intel. They are looking to purchase keyboards with smartcard readers built in. They hope to get them at $30/piece from suppliers in Asia. The lot size? 10 million. > > >I suppose this is good news. I just hope they implement a system, like >Chaum's low-knowledge/zero-knowledge systems, which make it difficult or >impossible for snoops or tampered hardware to leak useful information. I understand that Intel's main problem at this time seem to be to find a keyboard manufacturer that understands that for the device to be effective, the CPU should not be involved in its operation. -- Lucky Green <mailto:shamrock@netcom.com> PGP encrypted mail preferred Make your mark in the history of mathematics. Use the spare cycles of your PC/PPC/UNIX box to help find a new prime. http://www.mersenne.org/prime.htm

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Re: overview.htm (fwd)
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > Dale Thorn wrote: > > Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > > Remember too those ads for male sexual lubricants - you cannot use > > a condom with those lubricants. Safe sex, I don't think so. > That does not come close to a theory that would explain HIV away. The virus I believe is best explained by the numerous articles that were published in the 1970's on "gene splicing", and the fact that we now have two certified (official) government requests on paper that call for the development of an agent precisely like HIV, which were in fact funded. One was requested in 1979 (I think) by someone representing the Ft. Detrick folks ($10 million), and the other request was formally made by the World Health Organization. Why would the WHO want to develop a nasty bug like HIV? Use your imagination. Does the virus actually cause the immune collapse? That's still controversial, from what I hear. Try to find some of the material by Jakob Segal, who is heavily suppressed in the USA. Also check out Jon Rappaport (who also did some excellent on-the-spot interviews in OKC after the bombing), also Dr. Robert Strecker, whose brother was murdered trying to investigate the political threads of the origins of AIDS/HIV. > > In October 1959, after lapsing into a coma from a massive sinus > > infection, I was given "a million units of penicillin" in the > > children's hospital when first admitted. I recovered OK after > > two weeks, so I'm certainly not opposed to antibiotics for those > > who really need them. OTOH, our U.S. economy today is antibiotic- > > and-hormone crazy, injecting cows, pigs, and chickens to name a few > > animals, all in the hopes of raising production. So why is the rate > > of cancer going up so high? It seems nearly everyone I know is > > getting this degenerate disease when they get older. Check out the > > videos by Howard Lyman, who used to be a big-time "chemical" farmer. > > One quote: "My soil after a few years was like asbestos". > > As far as I understand, 1) no one really understands why cancer rates > are up so much and 2) since people live longer, they are more likely do > have cancer. True if all other things are equal. Try subtracting out some of the cancer factors, and perhaps they'd die of something else. > What you said is one of the hypotheses. I personally feel that > environment and bad greasy food are other major contributors. The > way they cook all these fries, with overheated grease, is very bad. Try an interesting experiment. Get an ordinary hamburger at McDonald's. Take the "meat" out of the bun and break it in half, then hold the broken edge up to your nose. It helps to have good sense of smell, but you'll probably get the picture anyway.

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