December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Where's reference? (was:RE: [DES] DES Key Recovery Project, Progress Report #7)
by Mullen 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>>---------- >>From: Phil Karn[SMTP:karn@qualcomm.com] >>>If past cryptographic software is any indication, the DES Cracker >>>will be available from an overseas ftp site within hours of release in >>>the US. >> >>And lacking that, the author can always print it out on paper and >>physically mail it out of the country; this is specifically allowed by >>the new Commerce rules as I understand them. And who's to say that the >>overseas FTP copies weren't scanned from such a paper copy? :-) >> >>Phil > Where can I get a reference to this? I thought you weren't supposed to transmit cryptographic code out of the U.S. under any means, including print... >(???) > >~ Patrick >

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Re: Rejection policy of the Cypherpunks mailing list
by paul＠fatmans.demon.co.uk 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> > The exercise reveals to me that only by ignoring the first paragraph > > of your example, the part that reads "Imagine if you will a list, > > the original purpose of which was to act as a free and open forum > > for discussion of cryptography and related issues." can you make > > a claim of content based censorship. The purpose of this list was Maybe this was misleading, that was indeed a purpose of the list but it was also supposed to be a free and anarchic list where people were not prevented from posting whatever they want. Even if it were the case that we accepted content based censorship that is no defence of the obvious class system that is in place whereby certain posters are automatically sent straight to the moderated list and others are censored regardless of the content of their posts. Datacomms Technologies web authoring and data security Paul Bradley, Paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk Paul(a)crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul(a)cryptography.uk.eu.org Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/ Email for PGP public key, ID: 5BBFAEB1 "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"

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Re: Best Computer School?
by Erp 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On 28 Jan 1997, Derek Atkins wrote: > Erp <erp(a)digiforest.com> writes: > > > On Mon, 27 Jan 1997, SpyKing wrote: > > > This is really exagerating. You do not need a 4.0, 1600, etc. to be > admitted to MIT. Sure, you need good grades, but a 3.6 average and > 1350-1400 SAT scores is perfectly adequate to be admitted to MIT. You > can think of being admitted with even lower scores, if you stand out > in some way. MIT admissions looks for well-rounded students. You're > much better off being a writer/artist/musician than being on the > science or math teams. > Hmm.... Then a have a lieing blah blah blah of a counselor >) hehe I applied for MIT, and even had an interview.. Then dropped my application after getting chewed out by my counselor, and having had her refuse to fill out anything on my second part of the application that said specifically "COUNSELOR ONLY" went to the principal and he refused.. Filled it out myself, and since it didn't have the counselors signature ... I dropped it aka they dropped me but its easier to say it hteo ther way around. And yes I understand the well-rounded thing.. But then again you hav eto consider that the average student at MIT has applied at least two times. I know that one for a fact from some program or something I read that MIT puts out. > > what he wants to be before he goes to some major college such as MIT, > > because tuition at MIT costs approx 100,000$/4 years. Personally that is > > a hell of a lot, but then again *shrug*... I recommend going to a local > > It may be alot, but then again MIT is one of the best schools in the > world (I'm not going to be egotistical enough to say it *is* the best, > even tho Consumer Reports rated it such for the last N years). True, it is one of the best, can't argue against that.. But there are others that are better in certain areas.. from my knowledge MIT expresses more in its engineering departments than anything else though.. Although I do know a very philosophical physics professor there so *shrug*.. maybe I'll apply again some day.. And yes all the rest of my requirements wher ehigh.. I am a swimteam captain, first trombone in my school, for marching jazz pep and symphonic bands.. I'm also the lead french horn.. Then I have the little side things such as Chess team captain.. and have tha precious 3.6 GPA the only proglem with it is I ahve one teacher that gave me a D in my freshman year, so I can't get into honor society .. go figure... But hey such is life.. I'm planning on reapplying after I get into college and raise myself back to a 4 point so who knows what will happen.. > > This is untrue. The computer science department at MIT is really > good. As are the sciences, and even business! The MIT Sloan School > (Management and Economics) was rated #1 last year. The EECS > department (EE and CS are together) is top notch, too. Really good yes.. Not necessarily the best though.. Check everywhere.. each aspect of every college may have one thing that he is specifically interested in that would be better than going to MIT or some other such place3... > > Ciro Maria <cmaria(a)stevens-tech.edu> writes: > > > Yeah Stevens Institute in Hoboken. Its pretty good I got there. Also > > Caltech is good, I don't really know which else. > > When I looked at Caltech, their Engineering (and computer science) > really lacked. They were excellent for the Sciences (Math, Physics, > Chemistry, etc.) but their engineering school wasn't as good as others > I was looking at (both EE and CS). Things may have changed in the > last 8 years, however. *nod* I do agree with that... THey are pretty much the same now.. > > > Spyking, my advise to you: Look around at many schools. Go visit > them. Talk to the students there. Talk to the professors. Talk to > graduates. The more information you and your son have, the better > decisions you and he can make. > > Personally, I loved MIT -- it was the right place for me. It isn't > the right place for everyone. Make sure it is the right place for > your son before he applies. For what it's worth, I wanted to go to > MIT my sophomore year in high school, too ;) I havet o ask, did you make it in on your first apply to it? and please forgive the mistypes in this.. I'm really lagged for some reason.. And well, It takes forever to go back when it is lagged this bd, so I ahven't can back and changed things automatically like I usually do... > Thanks, Erp

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Re: Rejection policy of the Cypherpunks mailing list
by Sandy Sandfort 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SANDY SANDFORT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C'punks, On Mon, 27 Jan 1997 paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk wrote: > The list has been disentigrating for some time since the disgusting > incident when Dimitri was forcibly unsubscribed from the list. I'm curious about the gratuitous use of the word "forcibly" by Paul. Does this mean Gilmore took a fire axe to the computer or something? Dimitri was unsubscribed. It was done more or less against his will. ("More or less" because he in effect said to John, "bet you can't stop me.") What does "forcibly" add to this discussion besides melodrama? No force was required. John had the right and ability to pull the plug on Dimitri. "No animals were harmed in the making of this film." "Force," my ass. > have also been a number of postings from members of the list claiming > to understand anarchism who support censorship to "protect new > members of the list". There are various definitions of "censorship" and various flavors of anarchism. I'm a market anarchist, Paul is not. Paul claims to believe that any form of moderation is censorship. I think that enforcing standards of decorum on a private, voluntary list are not censorship. Reasonable minds may differ. I acknowledge that Paul's interpretations are not without some justification. (I just think they are incorrect in the instant case.) Paul, on the other hand, seems to be a True Believer. He brooks no view other than his own. (Curiously hypocritical under the circumstrances.) > So, there would be no intellectual dishonesty in a country claiming > to be a free and open society "trying out" fascism for a month or > two? - After all it`s a private country just as this is a private > list.... Paul's sophistry is showing. Nation-states are entities that exercise a monopoly on the use of force (real force, Paul) within (and often without) their boundries. Mail lists are far more like private homes, businesses or clubs. When you are a guest there, you are subject to their rules of behavior. > There is a clear trend easily observable on the list whereby certain > members postings are censored when their content is of a standard > that, if the moderation were objective and based on content alone, > would warrant their being sent to the censored list. Several substantive examples, please. True, nothing Bill Stewart has posted has been sent to CP-Flames. One guess why. Numerous posts by Dimitri have been posted to CP-Moderated, but many more have not made the cut. There are much more obvious reasons for this than Paul's biased analysis. > I can tell you one other thing for sure, even if the moderation > "experiment" were to end in a month as a last ditch attempt by John > Gilmore and Sandy Sandfort to recover some of their lost credibility > it would be a vain and entirely unsuccesful attempt. YMMV. S a n d y ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Re: Rejection policy of the Cypherpunks mailing list
by Dave Hayes 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dale Thorn writes: > I heard years ago that approximately 10% of the people on the street > are certifiably mentally unstable. This depends on your standads of "unstable". I'll bet genetic diversity is now much more of a factor then when those standards were written. > Multiply that by two at least for > Los Angeles (suburban L.A., actually, Hollywood for example is much > safer than Altadena or Westlake Village). I beg to differ. Which parts of Altadena and Hollywood are you referring to? ------ Dave Hayes - Altadena CA, USA - dave(a)jetcafe.org Freedom Knight of Usenet - http://www.jetcafe.org/~dave/usenet Call on God, but row away from the rocks.

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Re: Fighting the cybercensor
by Phillip M. Hallam-Baker 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

jim bell <jimbell(a)pacifier.com> wrote in article <5ch9f2$cuu(a)life.ai.mit.edu>... > Look, I've proposed what I consider to be a remarkably consistent method to > prevent the kind of political tyranny that you criticize, and I don't see > any recognition of this fact. Thats because its a whacko solution that has no credibility or consistency. If anyone tried to set up such a market and a price went out on any of the heads of state fantasized about Mr Bell would be dead as a doornail in a week. Phill

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Re: Fighting the cybercensor. (fwd)
by Phillip M. Hallam-Baker 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Asgaard <asgaard(a)cor.sos.sll.se> wrote in article <5c92bo$lo9(a)life.ai.mit.edu>... > On Wed, 22 Jan 1997, Jim Choate wrote: > > >The Web does not equal the Internet, straw man argument. > Actually at CERN we considered the Web to be a superset of the Internet protocols and others such as DECNET which ran on private networks such as our HEPNET. Since most of those private networks are now obsolete I would consider Web==Internet to be a reasonable equivalence. We always considered email and news to be part of the Web (news:, mailto:). The narrow view that the Web was only HTTP and HTML was a piece of Andressen propaganda. Phill

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Re: Rejection policy of the Cypherpunks mailing list
by OKSAS 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Tue, 28 Jan 1997, aga wrote: > On Tue, 28 Jan 1997, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > > > Dale Thorn wrote: > > > > > > Kevin L Prigge wrote: > > > > paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk said: > > > > > > > > "cypherpunks will make the networks safe for censorship" > > > > > > > "Idiots will make the networks require censorship" > > > > > > The line above this one says it all, doesn't it? If I judge you to > > > be "an idiot", then, if I also have the power to shut you up, I can > > > not only shut off your "noise" from me, but also prevent anyone else > > > from hearing you as well. That's the real beauty of censorship - > > > if I have the power, I can make you a non-person by preventing most > > > people from hearing you at all. Oh, lovely, isn't it? > > > > > > > Don't you like power, Dale? > > > > - Igor. > > > > Power corrupts, in some instances. Instances where the power is concentratted to one individual or small group of individual....

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Re: Fighting the cybercensor. (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > From: "Phillip M. Hallam-Baker" <hallam(a)ai.mit.edu> > Subject: Re: Fighting the cybercensor. (fwd) > Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 21:36:13 -0500 > > I don't agree with your view of states. The inhabitants of a > geographical area are not mere chattels of the governing power. Exactly! By jove you got it! By demanding your liberty but demanding that 'we' go to Singapore or anywhere else and treat them as chattels we have clearly instituted a double-standard. Most parties in this discussion still haven't made that distinction. All we have done is replace their current tyrant with a new one, mainly us. > The right to rule rests on certain criteria which I believe neither > country meets. The harassment of opposition politicians in > obviously trumped up charges disqualifies any country from > calling itself a democracy. Exactly. And by applying pressure on Singapore we only help them keep that tyrany in place. The quickest way I know to make a social institution band together is self-preservation from an outside threat, real or perceived. > I am a cyber-revolutionary and the world has bought into > the chaos of our revolution. I never intended the Web to be a tool > for confirming the present social order which is manifestly > corrupt. ALL social orders are corrupt. The 3 laws of thermodynamics apply to everything including social institutions. 1. You can't get ahead 2. You can't break even 3. You can't quit the game Heinz Pagels (RIP) Jim Choate CyberTects ravage(a)ssz.com

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Re: Fighting the cybercensor. (fwd)
by Phillip M. Hallam-Baker 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Jim Choate <ravage(a)einstein.ssz.com> wrote in article <5c5891$ah(a)life.ai.mit.edu>... > > Singapore and China are blocking certain net groups. I think > > this is a bad thing, question is how can we stop it? > > 'We' shouldn't, it is their own country and it is up to their populace to > stop it. Do you really want Singapore or China having a say in how we run > our web? I certainly don't, and won't support any move to force any > particular view on them. If Billy-Bob wants to shoot himself in the foot, > let him. Might be purty funny to watch. I don't agree with your view of states. The inhabitants of a geographical area are not mere chattels of the governing power. The right to rule rests on certain criteria which I believe neither country meets. The harassment of opposition politicians in obviously trumped up charges disqualifies any country from calling itself a democracy. > > The Web was conceived as offering despots and dictators a choice > > between remaining in the dark ages and allowing freedom of > > speech. Blocking and filtering schemes threaten this ideal. > > Bull, the web was conceived so physicist and other researchers could share > data in a easily digestible format. That was not all. We had a political Web site established during the '92 election. I was in contact with Clinton's people when we had fewer than 100 Web sites. I am a cyber-revolutionary and the world has bought into the chaos of our revolution. I never intended the Web to be a tool for confirming the present social order which is manifestly corrupt. Phill

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