December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

RE: Sandy and I will run a cypherpunks "moderation" experiment in Jan
by Robert Barnes 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Rich Burroughs wrote: >At 02:56 PM 1/6/97 +1000, Robert Barnes <rbarnes(a)gil.com.au> wrote: >[snip] >>My bottom line feeling with respect to this is that we cannot >>expect freedom unless we are willing to exercise responsibility. >>It is apparent that the people who are noisiest about freedom of >>speech and content censoring are working tirelessly to abuse >>the list and provoke the very opposite of their stated ideals. > >Hmmm. There has been some of that, but some of use who have spoken about >freedom of speech have done so because of legitimate concerns, not just to >gain advantage in an ongoing, juvenile campaign. I would say that there had been a lot more than "some of that". I believe that moderation as proposed does not really limit anyones Freedom of Speech. After all the list is intended as a forum to discuss the topic of cryptography and it's use by society, the list is not advertised as a free for all abuse forum or an unlimited conduit for spam. If you want Freedom of Speech go stand on a soapbox in your local town square. Would you complain that people who choose to walk on by and not listen to you are violating your right to Free Speech? Cypherpunks has the right to say "Enough, take the raves, rants and spam somewhere else". You are free to say what you want, but if it is off-topic, I don't want to see it in my inbox. > <snip> > >I think the idea of two versions of the list is an excellent one, and it >avoids the issues raised by presenting the list in only a moderated form. >If people want the spam they can have it, and if they don't they can take >advantage of John and Sandy's work, and read a more coherent version of the >list. I will certainly choose the latter, but it is nice to know that the >choice is mine. John and Sandy -- thanks for getting this rolling. You will certainly be in the minority, but you are right, the choice is yours to make and everyone else's as well. > >Rich >______________________________________________________________________ >Rich Burroughs richieb(a)teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~richieb >U.S. State Censorship Page at - http://www.teleport.com/~richieb/state >dec96 issue "cause for alarm" - http://www.teleport.com/~richieb/cause -------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Barnes Phone: +61 7 32529722 Fax: +61 7 32571403 Tritronics (Australia) Pty Ltd Email: robertb(a)tritro.com.au PGP Key fingerprint = 02 A6 22 5E 26 D3 7C 4D E2 91 9E 15 AC EA B1 58 Send e-mail with "get key" in the "Subject:" field to get a copy of my public key

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No Subject
by nobody＠replay.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Toto wrote: > > (If you think our list is bad, you ought to see lists which are completely > > dominated by one-line witticisms and inside jokes....) > > Or 10,000 messages saying only, "Merry Christmas", followed a few days > later by another 10,000 messages saying, "Happy New Year". > Anyone who needs 'proof' that I am speaking the truth, here, (and who > has a 10Gb hard drive), can just send me their email address, and I > would be glad to forward them. Thanks for your kind offer. Please send the material to: dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com (Better send several copies of each message to make sure none get lost.) I can also get mail at: aga(a)dhp.com Might as well send to both accounts. Thanks again!

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[DES] DES Key Recovery Project, Progress Report #5
by Peter Trei 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

DES Key Recovery Project, Progress Report #5 6 January 1997 Well, the New Year brings changes.... 1. I'm astonished at the low level of reaction RSA's announcement that they will be sponsoring a DES Challenge, with a $10,000 cash prize. I've been working with people at RSA to get this set up. It looks like there'll be an ascii-plaintext challenge (we won't know the full plaintext - just that it's ascii, and long enough to be unambigious), and the full prize will go the first person who emails them the key. This is pretty much what we need to recruit a large number of otherwise dis-interested people, and their machines. The code will be a tad slower than for an attack where we know the full plaintext of the block sought, but not much. 2. As for my code for WinTel machines - it's very close to an initial alpha release (squashing a few last bugs). I intend this to be used only for identifying porting issues. The first 'real' version is a couple weeks away. Once the alpha is out, I'll be looking at the new assembly language code from Eric Young and Svend Mikkelsen to see how it compares with mine. Since Eric independently matched my speed in the DES round, I want to see if he is using any different tricks than I. When it's released, my code will be able to: 1. Run a validity and speed test. 2. Accept a specified 32 bit 'chunk' of the keyspace to test. When it finishes a chunk, it appends information about whether it found the key to a results file, and also any half-matches it found along with a checksum. The latter two items help make cheating and sabotage more difficult. 3. Read it's input (plaintext, IV, etc) from a file. After the actual DES Challenge is announced, I'll hardwire that challenge into the program. 4. Periodically checkpoint it's status to a file. This is so that the program can be stopped at any time neccesary, without losing more than a few minutes work. At startup, it looks in this file for where to continue searching, unless instructed otherwise. It will NOT run as a screen saver. It's actually more efficient to run as a low-priority task in the background - that way it soaks up unused cycles even when a screen saver is not in operation. If someone else want's to incorporate it into an SS, go ahead. The alpha will run in a DOS box under Win95 and WinNT. A GUI interface may come along later. It will NOT talk to a keyspace server, though the format of the input and output should make it possible to add this in the future. I don't have time to develop both myself, and while people on the lists have proposed any number of complex schemes for setting up and managing a server, no one in the US seems willing to do the work (I'm worried about violating ITAR/EAR). I have a pretty good idea what needed in a server. At very least, I'd like to have people register the fact that they are taking part, so we get some idea of the level of effort being expended. The very first time it is started up on a given machine, if it is not given a specific chunk at which to start, it will pick one at random. The checkpointing scheme means that on later runs, it will pick up where it left off, advancing to the next chunk as it completes each one. For this purpose, we don't need cryptographically strong PRNG, just one that provides a fairly smooth distribution of results. This means that the search *will* complete, but the time is not as good as a carefully doled-out keyspace would provide. If you want to do the math, go ahead, but I think it will average about twice as long as a purely doled-out search to search the whole keyspace, and somewhat less to search half the keyspace. Peter Trei trei(a)process.com

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Re: Sandy and I will run a cypherpunks "moderation"
by David Lesher / hated by RBOC's in 5 states 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

It might have been interesting to instead announce that Sandy & John were starting a NEW list..... It just happened to have the old name. And the old list? Still there at ....... After all, the end result is the same. [One problem -- does this mean SternFUD will be back?] -- A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz(a)nrk.com & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

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[ADMINISTRATIVIUM] ZKP
by nobody＠replay.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tim Mayo is the living proof that anal sex causes pregnancy. /\ _ /\ | | 0 0 |-------\== \==@==/\ ____\ | \_-_/ _|| _||

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Re: Will off-topic libertarian bullshit be allowed on the moderated mailing list?
by Blanc Weber 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: Toto (from the thread "ONE MILLION CHILDREN.....") I can see that I'm going to have to lay in an extra supply of garlic and silver bulltets. I suspect that everyone on the CypherPunks list is either an employee of the NSA, or a member of the alleged 'Circle of Eunuchs'. In the words of the author of "Make BIG $$$", "Email everybody, and let Eudora sort them out." ..................................................... You're just tooooo funny, Toto. Fortunately you also have some agreeably accurate & serious things to say as well, such as: Perhaps if the 'experts', busy discussing highly-technical areas, were to take the time to educate those seeking to gain a wider knowledge of cryptography, then CypherPunks would have a broader base of active crypto-related postings. The more plants that you have in your garden, the less room there is for weeds. A broad base of different types of posters makes the list interesting; a serious consideration of the actual focal subject gives it credibility and respect. Of course, a forum is for conversation; some people who are extremely focused on their work don't want to talk all that much about it, and those who have a lot to say aren't necessarily engaged directly in the actual work involved. It's also much easier to make many small comments on a thread than to present a developed, coherent presentation of one's view. (I credit Tim May for often posting just such messages as these.) As a non-cryptographer my interest in the subject has to do with the role it plays in the context of maintaining/expanding "liberty" and of having tools to employ for privacy and independence from indiscriminate "regulators". Reading only about the code wouldn't keep me super-enthralled. But seeing the effects of it on all aspects of our regulated social existence, with the list as a starting point for understanding, is highly engaging. .. Blanc >

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by L. A 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Re: IWD_ism
by Thaddeus J. Beier 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

John Young wrote: > > 1-6-96. > > "Information-Warfare Defense Is Urged" > > The Defense Science Board said the Pentagon should > launch counterattacks against computer hackers by > injecting the attackers' computers with "a polymorphic > virus that wipes out the system, takes it down for weeks." > This is completely unbelievable, who are these people? I believe that the polymorphic virus is originally from the classic "Shockwave Rider" and was seen as an impossible fiction even in that book of improbable fiction. -- Thaddeus Beier thad(a)hammerhead.com Visual Effects Supervisor 408) 287-6770 Hammerhead Productions http://www.got.net/people/thad

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by L. A 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Thoughts on moderation
by Douglas Barnes 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Some thoughts -- 1) I've known Sandy for a couple of years, and I trust him to use good judgement as a moderator. It will be important to develop guidelines so that the job can be rotated, but it's also important that the moderator be someone who doesn't have any major axe to grind. Sandy has his personal likes and dislikes, but I don't think he'll ever stoop to tossing out opinions that he disagrees with. 2) I don't think that a post should be tossed out simply because it contains an ad-hominem attack, but only if it is entirely or almost entirely an ad-hominem attack. (Timmy May sucks cock, or John Gilmore dead of AIDS, or found drowned in his hot tub, or whatever...) I'd hate to see an otherwise substantive post get pitched out because it referred to Dorothy Denning as the Wicked Witch of the East or somesuch. 3) I agree that maintaining the list of posts that are tossed out is important as a check against abuse by the moderator. 4) I think that anyone who confuses the editing of a list with censorship is a complete fool, and should be sentenced to running a free counterculture newspaper in which he or she is compelled to publish whatever fevered ramblings enter the head of the members of the "community" without editing. [This is the voice of experience speaking here -- you don't want to do this.] Freedom of the press belongs to those that own presses. The Internet makes it a lot easier to own a "press", but it doesn't make them grow on trees, nor does it give you any special rights to appropriate someone else's press. (I'm assuming that the peurile lamers -- oops,ad-hominem alert -- who are arguing so strongly against editing the list also believe in property rights, yes?) FWIW, Doug

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