December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Cypherpunks Dec Mtg / upDate + TEXT-only version
by Dave Del Torto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Re-Salutations, For those who can't get to the web page <http://www.pgp.com/961214.html> for one reason or another, the Cypherpunks December 96 Physical Meeting being hosted by PGP Inc is scheduled for: Saturday 14 December, 11am-5pm PST. My apologies for not being specific in the previous SMTP version. Reminder: _please_ RSVP ASAP as follows: <mailto:ddt@pgp.com?subject=cpunks-mtg-rsvp> That's a reply to this mail/address with the subject: "cpunks-mtg-rsvp" (no quotes). Thanks to all who've RSVP in compliance with this request so far: I'm no longer worried about being there alone. ;) Note: since there is a limit to the number of people we can fit in this meeting room (above which the Sofitel will no longer "look the other way"), as soon as we go over 100 RSVP's I'll post a notice (this evening, at this rate). We certainly don't want to discourage anyone from showing up, but be aware that there are physical limits involved, so let us know ASAP. dave PS: Here's a TEXT version of the most up-to-date web content: ................................. cut here ................................. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Cypherpunks December 1996 Physical Meeting [text version] hosted by Pretty Good Privacy, Inc. This meeting is being held on United States Soil and is open to the General Public. Web URL (includes map): <http://www.pgp.com/961214.html> ________________________________________ Contents: DATE/TIME LOCATION PURPOSE and AGENDA NOTES Please RSVP! Demos Handouts/Raffle PGP Key Exchange Meeting Time PGP/MIME BOF at the IETF PGP Engineers Directions to the Meeting From the North or East Bay From the South Bay ________________________________________ Important Summary Information: Attendee RSVPs: mail to: <ddt(a)pgp.com> subject: cpunks-mtg-rsvp General info queries mail to: <ddt(a)pgp.com> subject: cpunks-mtg-info-request Agenda proposals mail to: <ddt(a)pgp.com> subject: cpunks-mtg-agenda-request Demo requests mail to: <ddt(a)pgp.com> subject: cpunks-mtg-demo-request Demo/Agenda item deadline: 11:59pm PST Thursday 12 December 1996 ________________________________________ DATE/TIME Saturday 14 December 1996 11am to 5pm PST ________________________________________ LOCATION Hotel Sofitel, 223 Twin Dolphin Drive, Redwood Shores, California 94065 +1.415.598.9000 main hotel telephone Room location: ask at hotel Main Desk or follow "Cypherpunks" signs. ________________________________________ PURPOSE and AGENDA The Cypherpunks group is an informal, open-membership group dedicated to various topics on Cryptography and Privacy, and the agenda is determined by the people who attend. Various software and public-interest issues may be discussed. The final agenda for the December meeting will be announced at the meeting based on agenda items submitted by email (see below). The Cypherpunks December 96 Physical Meeting is being hosted by Pretty Good Privacy, Inc in a meeting room at the Hotel Sofitel (see below) that can accomodate up to 100 people. There will be refreshments/snacks, and I think this qualifies as a "cypherpunk milestone" of sorts, so we hope lots of people show up. The meeting has been advertised through numerous Internet resources and in the print media (SJMN Classified Notices 12/7 & 12/8). Please contact me for general information, or to submit an item for the meeting's agenda. Agenda items must be submitted by email with a brief textual summary which should specify any computer or AV equipment needed. The deadline for agenda item requests/proposals is 11:59 PM Thursday 12 December. Dave Del Torto (December chairperson) <ddt(a)pgp.com> ________________________________________ NOTES Please RSVP! Please RSVP if you plan to attend. Tell/bring your friends as well. PGP Inc has rented a meeting room (plus amenities) that can accomodate up to 100 people for the meeting. Besides the maximum capacity restrictions on the meeting room (fire codes), it's important that we have an idea of how many people plan to attend as soon as possible before the meeting, because we're also arranging for refreshments/snacks (you do not need to bring anything to eat/drink this time). Thank you for your consideration. Demos If you want to make a Cypherpunks-related presentation or demo software/etc at the meeting, please notify the chairperson before the meeting. (ASAP!) Everyone with something to say or show is encouraged to bring/show it (even stuff that's already been demoed before but which has been updated). The cutoff date for demo reservations is also 11:59 PM Thursday 12 December. We can try to have the equipment you might need ready if you list what you need in detail (and early): otherwise, bring your own equipment. Though we'll do our best to accomodate everyone, if you wait until the last minute, there may not be room for you unless you have something very simple/brief, so please bear that in mind. There will be overhead projector for transparencies and an RGB projector for laptops. Net connections (analog modem, ISDN) can be arranged with enough advance notice. Right now, we have not arranged anything beyond a Metricom modem (28.8Kbps), but we can arrange an analog modem line or even an ISDN if there's a specific need. Tell me soon(!). Handouts/Raffle Paper handouts are welcome: please give me your stack for the handout table when you arrive. There will be door-prizes from PGP, but supplies will be limited if 100 people show up. We will also to raffle off some PGP software (ViaCrypt stuff, upgradable when our new versions arrive). PGP Key Exchange Bring a printout of/screen with your PGP key fingerprint. Or a diskette version if you want to have it signed (or both). We'll have a "key exchange moment" at the end of the meeting to faciitate expansion of the PGP Web of Trust. Meeting Time Meeting time is 11 AM to 5 PM. This is slightly earlier than usual for a Cypherpunks meeting because we have to be out of the meeting room shortly after 5 PM (so a wedding can be set up), but we can meet in small informal groups in the hotel lobby/bar after the meeting. PGP/MIME BOF at the IETF The IETF's PGP/MIME BOF is the previous morning: Friday 13 Dec, 9:00-11:30 AM (Crystal Room, Fairmont Hotel, 170 South Market St. in Downtown San Jose, 408.998.1900 main). Remember: it's a "Birds Of a Feather" session on the last day of the IETF conference (make of that what you will). Please come by if you want to help support RFC 2015 so PGP/MIME can take the next step toward IETF Working Group discussion so we can eventually move it further along the IETF Standards Track. Anyone who's at the IETF is of course encouraged to stay over until Saturday and come to the Cypherpunks meeting too! PGP Engineers PGP's engineering staff is being encouraged to attend the Cypherpunks meeting: not to compromise trade secrets or strategic plans, but to listen to, and/or answer if possible, reasonable questions/bug-reports/feature requests/etc. Persons interested in employment opportunities at PGP Inc are also encouraged to attend and bring a resume/diskette/etc. Directions to the Meeting The Sofitel is just off Twin Dolphin Drive a few blocks south of Oracle's silvery towers (hard to miss). Parking is available in the hotel's parking structure. From the North Bay (East Bay attendees: first cross the San Mateo Bridge/Hwy 92 west). SOUTH on 101 (Bayshore Freeway). EXIT at Ralston Ave/Marine Parkway. GO EAST on Marine Parkway toward SF Bay (Oracle is on the left). RIGHT on Twin Dolphin Drive (2nd light after the overpass) Follow Twin Dolphin (curvy) for less than a mile. LEFT on Shoreline Drive. The Hotel Sofitel is on your left. From the South Bay: NORTH on 101 (Bayshore Freeway) to Redwood City EXIT at Holly Street/Redwood Shores Drive. GO EAST on Redwood Shores Drive (toward SF Bay). LEFT at Twin Dolphin Drive (2nd traffic light) Follow Twin Dolphin (curvy) for less than a mile. RIGHT on Shoreline Drive. The Hotel Sofitel is on your left. ________________________________________________________________________ Copyright 1996 Pretty Good Privacy, Inc., All Rights Reserved. PGP, Pretty Good, and ViaCrypt are registered trademarks of PGP, Inc. Pretty Good Privacy is a trademark of PGP, Inc. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3 Charset: noconv Comment: Verbum sapienti satis est. iQCVAwUBMq9fFaHBOF9KrwDlAQHHTwP/Vyv/wrfHJP0DES52RMZbeCxKgd+xK3qm 6/QobqKB8iR/hYWZ0r1qW5TMsz6vlhphVyp5uYEac2yPJ+7GNAMCU8VHK56IshUN qeZhAWSZF8TCwegIQKWB/CP4yzkj/yHsy0jkWITRk4ghOA+96+W0QZrxHPcRtAGu LkA1LeupEfw= =kfOi -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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[OFF-TOPIC] RE: (Fwd) Books for Children's Hospitals
by James A. Tunnicliffe 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>Paul writes: >i know that this is WAY off topic, and that we never post off-topic mail >here, >but, this seems worthwhile, so please excuse, (maybe flames for off-topic >posts >will count ) > >cheers, > -paul >>"The Houghton-Mifflin publishing co. is giving books to children's >>hospitals; how many books they give depends on how many emails they >>receive from people around the world. for every 25 emails they receive, >>they give one book--it seems like a great way to help a good cause. >> >>All that you have to do is email share(a)hmco.com. >> >>I hope that you can spare the seconds...and let your friends know. So far >>they only have 3,401 messages...last year they reached 23,000. >> >>This seems like an easy and simple thing to do -- please take the time!" My "urban legend detector" pegged when I saw this, but it turns out to be on the level. See http://www.hmco.com/hmco/trade/hmi/polar/ for more info. Tunny ====================================================================== James A. Tunnicliffe | WWWeb: http://www.inference.com/~tunny Inference Corporation | PGP Fingerprint: CA 23 E2 F3 AC 2D 0C 77 tunny(a)Inference.com | 36 07 D9 33 3D 32 53 9C ======================================================================

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Silly me ...
by Ernest Hua 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

About 2 years ago, I attended CFP in San Francisco (really San Mateo, but who's counting), and I ran across a presentation by an ex-Justice Department dude named Kent Walker presenting the government's side of the encryption/wiretap debate. He really seemed nice enough, and I tried to chat with him. My topic was how could a good meaning hacker help good meaning government dudes figure out details to policies so that everyone is happy. Little did I know at that time that this is the same Walker that was quoted by Meeks as saying cute lil' gems like ... "If you ask the public, 'Is privacy more important than catching criminals?' They'll tell you, 'No.'" ... and ... "It's easy to get caught up in the rhetoric that privacy is the end all be all." After a little bit of frustration, I wrote him off as someone cashing in on his Justice days to be some VP of government relations (a.k.a. lobbyist) with Air Touch. Perhaps there is something slightly more spooky with this character than I originally thought. Ern

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R3 ANNOUNCES SSL HTTP SOLUTION PROVIDING (fwd)
by Adam Shostack 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

----- Forwarded message from Strate Andreas E. ----- >From list(a)glacier.mcom.com Thu Dec 12 11:42:56 1996 Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 08:33:29 -0800 (PST) From: "Strate Andreas E." <strate(a)r3.ch> To: "'ssl-talk'" <ssl-talk(a)netscape.com> Subject: R3 ANNOUNCES SSL HTTP SOLUTION PROVIDING Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 17:32:00 +0100 Message-Id: <96Dec12.173217gmt+0100.41475(a)gateway.r3.ch> Encoding: 56 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"IBQbP2.0.UY.MF3io"@glacier> Resent-From: ssl-talk(a)netscape.com X-Mailing-List: <ssl-talk(a)netscape.com> archive/latest/3087 X-Loop: ssl-talk(a)netscape.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: ssl-talk-request(a)netscape.com [Charset ISO-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] R3 ANNOUNCES SSL HTTP SOLUTION PROVIDING STRONG CRYPTOGRAPHY Aathal, Switzerland, December 12, 1996 - r3 security engineering ag announces "r3 SSL HTTP Client" which provides strong cryptography to any browser which supports HTTP proxies. The product available on Win95/NT and Win3.1 is in final Beta state and will be available on these platforms by the end of this year. A beta version of "r3 SSL HTTP Client" can be downloaded from http://www.r3.ch/products/ssl/ The "r3 SSL HTTP Client" has been selected by the major Swiss Banks to enable their homebanking applications with their customers. The solution provides strong cryptography based on the 128 bit IDEA algorithm. Export security and smaller key lengths were ruled out as inacceptable for sensitive Internet homebanking services. Strong cryptography with 128 bit IDEA algorithm is a must for their homebanking Internet services. The "r3 SSL HTTP Client" is part of a suite of SSL products developed by r3 security engineering which consists of _ r3 SSL HTTP Server _ r3 SSL HTTP Proxy Server _ r3 SSL HTTP Gateway _ r3 SSL FTP Server _ r3 SSL FTP Gateway The r3 SSL server products will be available during the first quarter 97. r3 security engineering ag - located in Aathal/Zurich, Switzerland - is one of the major providers for security solutions in the area of EDIFACT and Internet applications. r3's activities in international standardization committees and in research projects guarantee state of the art products and solutions. "r3 SSL HTTP Server" and "r3 SSL HTTP Client" are trademarks of r3. r3 SSL products use software modules developed by Eric Young (eay(a)mincom.oz.au) Eric Young's SSLeay is used but the SSL layer has been completely reengineered to provide full control over the SSL handshake. For further information please contact : ---------------------------------------------------- Andreas E. Strate r3 security engineering ag Internet: strate(a)r3.ch Hofstrasse 98 Phone: +41 1 934 56 56 CH-8620 Wetzikon Direct: +41 1 934 56 72 Switzerland Fax: +41 1 934 56 79 http://www.r3.ch/ ---------------------------------------------------- ----- End of forwarded message from Strate Andreas E. ----- -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume

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Windows 95 Easter Egg
by Travis Ogden 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Thought you all may find this entertaining... Regards, Travis --- ~Webmaster~ ~Tejedormaestro~ Travis Ogden SpiritOne, Inc. traviso(a)SpiritOne.com 7302 N Richmond Ave Phone: 503.240.8200 Portland OR 97203 Portland's Quality Fax: 503.240.8205 Public-Access Provider Web: http://www.SpiritOne.com Personal: http://www.SpiritOne.com/~traviso ~All opinions expressed herein are mine and not my employers~ --- ============================================================================== 1.Point the mouse at the desktop and click the right mouse button. Choose "New" from the resulting pop-up menu, and then choose "Folder." 2.A new folder will appear on the desktop, with the temporary name "New Folder." Change the folder's name by typing "and now, the moment you've all been waiting for" (do not type the quotation marks), and pressing the Enter key. 3.Point at the folder and click the right mouse button to display its pop-up context menu. Choose the Rename command, and type "we proudly present for your viewing pleasure" (again, without the quotation marks). Press the Enter key. 4.Once again, right-click the folder and choose the Rename command. This time, type "The Microsoft Windows 95 Product Team!" (again, without the quotation marks). Press the Enter key. 5.Double-click on the folder to open it. ==============================================================================

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Social Security Fraud
by nobody＠huge.cajones.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Red Rackham wrote: >>>As for the social security number, it has been claimed many times on >>>this list that nobody checks them anyway. There are programs which >>>generate real-appearing numbers. (I think one was called >>>"ssn.exe".) > >>While I understand the greater social good, I, personally, am not >>interested in violating applicable fraud statutes. This is a >>borderline case in which consideration to the idea, of course, should >>be given. I would hesitate to expose these people to that risk. > >I would not propose committing fraud. I do not understand who would >be defrauded by giving an employer an incorrect social security >number. The company pays the salary either way. To which Matthew J. Miszewski replied: >>I would not propose committing fraud. I do not understand who would > >You already have. As Mr. Miszewski is clearly too busy to answer my question, perhaps some of the lawyers on the list will be kind enough to help me out. Under what conditions is it fraudulent to give the wrong social security number? It seems to me that in the case of an employee giving the wrong number to his employer, the only person that suffers is the employee through loss of future payments from the Social Security Administration. The employer certainly doesn't suffer. Assume that the income tax is paid. What laws would an employee violate? What are the chances of conviction? What are the likely penalties if convicted? Red Rackham

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Elliptic curves
by Admin＠bexcol.demon.co.uk 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

You are all a bunch of faggots. Faggot cannot be allowed on usenet as dictated by the great dr. Grubor. Fuck you all.

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Re: Redlining
by Matthew J. Miszewski 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >(Let me add that remailers are great. I would be reluctant to express >these ideas in any other way for professional reasons.) hehehe. >(Those who don't believe me should get "Love Supreme" by John Coltrane >and listen to it carefully about 20 times. There are layers and And what was it that Bird's contemporary society called him? Was it crazy? This is one of the social ills potentially caused by discrimination. Far more important to me than the politics of any time is the music that a time period presents. But this visionary jazz musician was all but discredited by the musical environment of the times. Thankfully, it survived on its merits. But imagine if the campaign to discredit Coltrane had been successful and my young ears never experienced that beauty. That is part of the potential harm I am talking about. >At any rate, those who wish to enlighten their fellows on the subject >of racism can do better than "it's just wrong." Many of us take many different routes. Most of us fill our days taking action and have precious little time to enlighten people other than those they encounter daily. > >Red Rackham > Matt -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMq+H+LpijqL8wiT1AQEilQQAj4OeVtlDt8OKZmQ6ntLtlG04mMmkRDMa SDSvr0wOuWb5fDQ/TZSB681giFuGOQAtxFMsoZCOM2hodUd0FpbQqTd/EuStEMDp /4doFWAlMoJLs9VK5cAIOppYzVl68NmUoYA/v96ZRHkIaRlV6Ovgfb0ObAB3XT+E HZIrmY82lig= =gn6/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Redlining
by E. Allen Smith 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: IN%"ichudov(a)algebra.com" 11-DEC-1996 14:01:18.43 >The problem is, people can choose what credit history they want to have >(I can be a saver or a spender, for example), but nobody can change the >color of their skin. >This is central point of the theory why discrimination based on credit >histories is OK, while the discrimination based on race is not. First, I would point out that redlining does not necessarily equal credit discrimination based on race; it may mean credit discrimination based on poverty, which has an unfortunately high correlation with being a member of some races. (I won't go into the explanations for why this is the case here; most people who try to explain it don't take enough factors into account.) Second, let's take a look at whether inequalities based on factors that people cannot change is something that is wrong. This topic is wider in its application than redlining and credit; one example important to me in my field is in genetic screening usage for insurance purposes. (In that case, you've also got that limits on insurance uses of data when individuals can gather the data in question mean that someone can predict their own chances of needing insurance... leading to those who are healthy not purchasing it, and those who aren't purchasing it.) The first topic to mention in this regard is that of privacy. I believe I am among most people in finding a question about my behavior (e.g, my sexual activities) significantly more intrusive than a question about my personal characteristics (e.g., my gender). But I would hope that everyone would agree that it would be idiotic and irresponsible not to have someone's payments for insurance vary with their behavior; this would encourage irresponsible behavior and discourage responsible behavior. The second topic to mention in this regard is that inequality due to factors one cannot change is a fact of life. This is particularly true of capitalism (e.g., someone who has a genetic tendency toward large size will consume more food and thus spend more money on food), but it is also a problem in any other economic system - economics is not all of life. Even if one concludes that inequality is wrongful and needs to be "alleviated", there are many areas more important than credit on which one would logically start... such as forbidding merit-based admissions, which are biased in favor of those with higher IQs. I trust that my audience sees exactly why this idea, and similar ideas, are ultimately nonsense? The third topic is that one commonly applied idea used by the proponents of absolute equality is that found in Rawls' _Theory of Justice_, under which the just outcome is said to be found by a group of people who do not know what situation they will be in. (This is a vast oversimplification of the book(s) in question, which upon closer examination may realize the idea I am about to write down.) The simplistic conclusion is that everyone will want everything to be the same, since any individual might be in a bad or good situation. But if you have a choice between 49 dollars and a 50/50 chance of 0 or 100 dollars, you should take the latter. In other words, a situation in which inequalities exist can still be one that is overall better than a fully equal situation. There are a number of respects in which the insurance and credit markets fall under this category. The most obvious is the direct cost of regulation. Less obvious but perhaps more important is the uncertainty factor; the use of more data (for an insurance or credit decision) leads to less uncertainty in the ultimate outcome, and thus to less risk of unexpected claims (for insurance) or defaults (for credit). Thus, smaller businesses (which are also made more possible by lowering other regulatory costs) can exist in a deregulated insurance or credit market. The removal of the current ogliopolistic situation in such markets for the initial insurance or credit grantor would improve prices. -Allen

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Whom can you trust with your keys -- government version
by Hal Abelson 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- The Commerce Department draft crypto export regulations (see http://www.steptoe.com/commerce.htm) include the following stipulation on Key Recovery Agents: Evidence of an individual's suitability and trustworthiness [to act as a key recovery agent] shall include: (i) Information indicating that the individual(s): (A) Has no criminal convictions of any kind or pending criminal charges of any kind; (B) Has not breached fiduciary responsibilities (e.g., has not violated any surety or performance bonds); and (C) Has favorable results of a credit check; or, (ii) Information that the individual(s) has an active U.S. government security clearance of Secret or higher issued or updated within the last five years. It's nice to know that we can trust ex-cons, frauds, and deadbeats to hold our keys, provided that they have obtained a Secret clearance. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.4, an Emacs/PGP interface iQCVAwUBMrBrBfiGKLV9Y6XFAQH53AP5AXAG5ys1ju6R1imLJYTKQcgDtNec9YBw kSimzx/GIOAf0eWJFTU+fMTsJp9g7K1LasNYRYfXM2aqPuwB6UJ2PU1JKhi2u8ew Qk06TllDvhzGwWTCAd53J616181srw3Gb+lARvBQT4m/1trRNDR24d0rdxS7jxPk ytwNprO06zQ= =CXXb -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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