December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Inflation and Housing
by Brad Shantz 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- To: tcmay(a)got.net, cypherpunks(a)toad.com Date: Fri Jul 26 10:53:17 1996 Tim May wrote: > So, what do we have now? Salaries are 2-4x higher, gold is at $375 an > ounce, a new 3-br house averages about $100K As a person in the process of buying a house, I see the price of mortgages in a slightly different light than just inflation. Oh, it's still inflation, no argument there. I see it mainly as a problem with debt. Back in the early sixties (which I don't remember, by the way) houses cost just slightly over what the average salary was...cars cost considerably less. Sometime right around then, there was a boom in people needing/getting credit. In fact, I'd even be willing to say it was right after WWII when all the GI's suddenly hit the civillian economy and were buying houses, and getting into college with the new-fangled GI bill. As a result of huge people getting large amounts of credit, we have become a debt ridden society. Now it takes 40% of the "husband's" monthly income to go toward housing cost, whereas it used to be the 25% rule. People don't even blink twice now when the terms of a 30 year fixed mortgage comes up. That's "just the way it's done." Now, I also see a problem with people my age (25) wanting what took their parents 30 years to get in the first 3 years out of school. (i.e. Big house, 2 or 3 cars, kids, dogs, cats, horses, stocks, etc.) It is rare now to see people buying a "starter" home and then selling it and moving on up. Why? Well in Seattle, the starter homes are in really "NASTY" areas of town. Nobody wants to live there. So, then the starter homes in "nice" areas that are bought are promptly remodelled and sold as "regular" homes. Uh, hello, doesn't mean that another "starter" home has been removed from the market. Anyway, my point is that people here aren't buying the starter homes, they are buying the bigger homes. In order to do that, they have to take bigger loans. Bigger loans mean that the cycle of debt continues. So, yes salaries are 2x to 4x higher, but there is a problem in the amount of credit being given to young people. There is something inherently wrong with the amount of our economy that deals with debt. We can't continue to purchase things on margin, or on credit. Another recession is going to come, and when it hits, it will hit HARD. At least that's my opinion. Brad -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMfkGDq80j2q8tTgtAQHL4AP9EcyJ0YT9XQRz1ympFKeMX0Wo5JNOR4Z8 FA913PIRu4zkYi8/WQN4yNJh5jA5376PBVAXbW/upcNQZ+VbxXYh4T0QQPk51vPK MCHqGoVsTJpKJ+Utx7/0Wi0B6Y/TZnYaDgj9dz0TpdkH1fmyJXGi4kH+R3Y1TDoq f/i7gB5dzRQ= =rnpj -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: One of the biggest problems with freedom
by Charley Sparks 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- I forget who said " The price of freedom is eternal vigilance" but it applies to threats both foreign and domestic. This includes the government. I trust no one absolutely. And I among many others have helped to pay for what freedom we have left. ( He said, in a movin' to Idaho kinda way ) cheers -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCXAwUBMffl2uJ+JZd/Y4yVAQHpFwQMC5f+guI+aH/mmOtnr50EVaKuhRHZjmtN 7/Q0MR2anBUuxb2b1eBzt/jzsQe1seh+yjGdF7PchDPU8cvo8d1zIRKNcYoo3uNZ 4DnGRt5aJncvOVtjA1MbbdPJppXzZvZwzbNaUsc/W6deE2Ug0zqhfVaBZ3/Qsw/f ZvImtor9X+MmNw== =NUjq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- At 08:23 AM 7/25/96 -0700, you wrote: > >What our biggest problem is, is that people want the >government to protect them from the oh so evil terrorists, >and they will willingingly have shackles put on them, >and rejoice when it is done. > >I know people who WANT the government to take away their >rights for security, and its a lot of people, and its >far too many people. > >Example: "I don't care if the government has my keys >for encryption. I don't do anything wrong, and if it >helps FBI enforce our just laws, I am all for it. Since >anyone who tries to get keys without legal means will end >up in Leavenworth for the rest of their life, there is >no problems with people getting access to those things." > >When I try to refute the logic: > >"I don't care about the bill of rights... I don't want to >have to split my family up on separate flights so there is >a chance of some of them arriving without dying. I want >the security of knowing I can fly okay without being >blown up, thank you very much. Signapore has little or >no crime since the people give up their rights for a common >good." > >Problem with freedom is people don't use it... and like >a limb, will wither and fall off if not used. > >Our basic item should be trying to get the masses to figure >out that freedom is important and should not be construed >as a gift from the government. > > >

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Re: Question
by pjn＠nworks.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In> On Mon, 4 Sep 1989, Damien Lucifer wrote: > > On Tue, 23 Jul 1996 pjn(a)nworks.com wrote: > > > OK...A question for you all: > > <snip> In> Man, this is strange. I think C'punks just got time warped by Agents In> of the Evil Empire or somethin'. pjn wrote on 23 July 96, but Damien In> Lucifer replied to it on 4 Sep, 1989! Wow! Somebody better call In> Special Agent Mulder. In> <insert X files theme music here> Hahaha... (Honestly, Im a Invader from Outerspace. We time travel.) P.J. pjn(a)nworks.com ... Resistance is futon. Borgie go nap-nap now. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]

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New Book
by pjn＠nworks.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hey all- I was in the local Barnes and Noble Bookstore and I saw a book that looked interesting. It is called The Ultimate Spy Book written by H. Keith Melton and it contains a large wealth of information about the writing and breaking of cyphers from the time of Queen Elizabeth to the NSA. It is about $30, but it is well worth it... P.J. pjn(a)nworks.com ... etc etc etc etc ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]

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new service for PGP
by Mike Reiter 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

To all PGP users: We would like to make you aware of a new tool, called PathServer, for use with the "Pretty Good Privacy" (PGP) key management and encryption software. PathServer is a tool to help users to determine to whom a public key belongs, i.e., to "authenticate" the key. PathServer returns an active graphical representation of disjoint paths from a trusted key to the query key. PathServer helps support user authentication policies requiring that no single introducer is relied upon multiple times for information regariding a key. PathServer can be accessed at http://akpublic.research.att.com/~reiter/PathServer We welcome and appreciate any comments or suggestions. Send any comments to reiter(a)research.att.com or stubblebine(a)research.att.com. PathServer is an experimental service that is still under development, and thus it will likely be unreliable and slow for a while. Thanks in advance for your patience. Mike Reiter Stuart Stubblebine

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No Subject
by Bovine Remailer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Here is an interesting news article from CNN concerning cryptography and export regulations in the US. http://www.cnn.com/TECH/9607/25/electronic.security.wir/index.html -- Tangent <tangent(a)deltanet.com> PGP key available on MIT PGP public keyserver. Key ID: BA8010B1

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Why the world needs privay protecting Ecash
by shamrock＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>>> S.KOREA PROBES 15,000 PEOPLE OVER CREDIT CARD USE - South Korean > state prosecutors are probing 15,000 people for excessive use of > their credit cards overseas in a crackdown on lavish spending, a > prosecution official said on Thursday. [Reuters, 200 words] -- Lucky Green <mailto:shamrock@netcom.com> PGP encrypted mail preferred. Defeat the Demopublican Unity Party. Vote no on Clinton/Dole in November. Vote Harry Browne for President.

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Re: Twenty Bank Robbers -- Game theory:)
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 1:46 PM 7/26/96, David Lesher wrote: >> >> >``Twenty cypherpunks robbed a bank.'' >> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> >I was careful choosing words. >> >> That was my reaction as well. I'd assume that if twenty cypherpunks >> rob a bank, either it's one of Eric's party games (:-), or else >> they probably conspired over the net to rob a bank by computer. > > >Will they ALL fit in Tim May's hot tub? This is _my_ game-theoretic solution to the puzzle: let the 20 robbers battle it out, kill each other, whatever, then invite the survivors over and get rid of them all, leaving me with the money. Though I've had to delete most of the discussion of this puzzle, some things come to mind: 1. Similarities with "the unexpected hanging" problem. (Briefly, a man is told he will be hung in the next 20 days. But out of sensitivity to his feelings, he will not be hung if he can predict that he'll be hung on the *next day*. The man points out that he cannot be hung on the 20th day, as if he was still alive on the 19th day, he'd know that the 20th day was the day of the hanging. Hence, no hanging on the 20th day. So there are 19 days left. But the same logic applies, and so on, backward. He says smugly "I can't be hanged at all." So he is surprises when he is hanged on the 13th day.) 2. Inadequate accounting for or weighting of the "costs" of being killed. (I think others, including Jim Bell that I saw, mentioned this.) An abstract game theory problem is often hard to find a stable solution for, and is all the more difficult when the stakes are so high and yet are treated "abstractly." 3. The _iterated_ (repeated) form should have different results. I initially dismissed the posed problem, but the dozens of responses suggest that folks *do* find this stuff interesting. --Tim May Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: Produce 7 Hertz Frequency
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 7:26 PM 7/26/96, The Deviant wrote: >> What does "sin" have to do with the number 7? Oh, you must mean the movie >> "Se7en," in which the Se7en deadly sins were central to the plot. I get it. >> The seven deadly sins are the seven deadly hurts. >> > >Gee... or mabey he's refering to "sin" as the common abreviation of "sine" >as in "sine wave". > > --Deviant ??? I suggest some people on this list are losing track of the English language. Get a clue. --Tim Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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No Subject
by snow 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

As previously discussed, I am announcing a Greater Chicago Area CypherPunks Physical Meet. The date is Saturday, 3 August 1996 at or around 4 p.m. at Ye Olde Saint Andrews Pub, 5938 N. Broadway, Chicago Il. Instructions are at the end of this post. Things _I_ would like to discuss, of course, this is me, so it is very amenable to changer: 1) Setting up a Chicago Area Remailer, not simply running a single remailer on a single account, but trying to go one better. 2) Discuss the possibility of a public event to spread the word about cryptography/encryption. 3) Discuss the next meeting. The reasons for selecting St. Andrews Inn: 1) It is relatively empty. 2) It has Food (Supposedly real good shepard's pie, made from real shepards(I asked)), Drink (Cider, and they know what snakebite is), and Non-alcoholic beverages. 3) It is easy (relatively) to get to. To get to St. Andrews Inn: By Car: Take Lake Shore Drive North until the LSD ends. Go North on Sheridan (right turn off of LSD) to Thorndale (About 5900 North) Turn left on Thorndale (heading west) and drive to Broadway (About 4 or 5 blocks) Park. St. Andrews is on the North West Corner of the intersection, under the green awning. By El: Take the Red Line (Howard/Dan Ryan) to Thorndale Go west 1/2 block from the El, This is Broadway St. Andrews is on the North West Corner of the intersection, under the green awning. I will try to have a map up at http://www.encodex.com/cypherpunks later today. Petro, Christopher C. petro(a)suba.com <prefered for any non-list stuff> snow(a)smoke.suba.com

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