December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Safemail
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 5:32 PM 6/20/96, Deranged Mutant wrote: >On 20 Jun 96 at 10:29, Adam Shostack wrote in cypherpunks(a)toad.com: > >> Not to defend the safemail folks, but this does remind me of something >> that NeXT did with Eliptic curve based systems; there was no storage >> of the private key, it was generated from the passphrase at run time. >> It was a side discussion, maybe with Andrew Lorenstien? Andrew? > >> Daniel R. Oelke wrote: > >The HKS archives are still down, but a while back on the coderpunks >list was an interestng idea about hashing a passphrase to seed a >crypto PRNG and used the first good set of primes etc. for a secret >and private key pair. Only the private key is saved in such a case. I haven't seen this particular idea, but a general point to always bear in mind is that "entropy doesn't increase" (despite what you may have heard about that other kind of entropy....). To wit, if there are N bits of entropy in a passphrase (or whatever is the basic key, be it typed in, read from a floppy, whatever), then no amount of deterministic crunching by a PRNG (or whatever) will increase this. (I say "deterministic" in the sense that all parties presumably need to run the same PRNG and get the same output from the same "seed" (= passphrase, in this scheme). Thus, the PRNG cannot add additional randomness or entropy. Unless I am misunderstanding the proposal...) So, if the passphrase is 22 characters, as in the "Safemail" proposal (such as it is), that's all that can be gotten. Period. There just aren't enough "places" in the space of starting points. Anyone with access to the algorithms used to process the 22 characters (154 bits if 7 bits are used for each character) can brute force search the space in a relatively short time. (If the later processing algorithms are supposed to be "secret," then of course this a cryptographic faux pas of the first magnitude, usually dismissed as "security through obscurity.") By the way, amongst other defects, "Safemail" is a pretty bad name for a company, being that RSA Data Security has or had a product called "MailSafe." (The same thing happened with the Web search tool made by "Architext." There was a Macintosh hypertext program with the same name, which I bought in 1990. Someone I knew who worked for Architext was confused by my denunciation of Architext....such name collisions make for interesting situations.) --Tim May Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Take the money, Harry, re.
by RogErick＠aol.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>Harry should take the money. As Ayn Rand said, "Don't let your morality be >used against you." > > I believe in the philosophy of law. As long as it's legal, each person >can take whatever he is legally entitled to from the government's stolen >money, as long as he/she doesn't ADVOCATE that the coercive tax system be >retained. Many will not take grants, or welfare, but they are legally >entitled to it. As for the moral entitlement, that is a matter for them to >work out for themselves. After all, we have to drive on government (tax >supported) roads, etc. > >Tonie I agree with you, Tonie, as usual. I struggled with this, for years, until I had a dream. I was on a battlefield, pinned down by enemy fire, and I was out of ammunition. There was plenty of slave labor stuff around, on the corpses of enemy soldiers, but of course, I couldn't use that, morally, because it was made available by force. So I made a decision, and I didn't die in my sleep. If libertarians deprive themselves of what is legal, they impoverish themselves, relative to the more socialistic others, and the the cancer continues to gather strength by taking ours for themselves. But that is no reason to continue it in law, when we have the power to reverse or negate the law itself, that legalizes theft. In a future dream, I will free the slaves with the fruits of their forced labor, so they will be forced no more. I think all libertarians fundamentally want to do this. So...We need to trust elected libertarians, not to be seduced by existing collectivist power, to use it at any and every opportunity, to return all power to the individual. Otherwise, what is the point? P.S. I am unable to afford to go the the National Convention. Sorry to miss seeing all of you who are going. Roger

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where'd Bal's PKS go?
by me＠muddcs.cs.hmc.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Did it move? I hadn't seen any announcement of this... me -- Michael Elkins <me(a)cs.hmc.edu> http://www.cs.hmc.edu/~me PGP key fingerprint = EB B1 68 32 3F B5 54 F9 6C AF 4E 94 5A EB 90 EC

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Re: Current status of RSA patent...
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:59 AM 6/20/96 -0400, Intense wrote: > >does not matter - it will be renewed in the interest of the government >The goverment want's there backdoor... would you expect less? As far as I know, patents can't be "renewed." I've heard they can be "re-issued," amended, but to my knowledge that doesn't extend their term. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Re: Congress is at it again
by Alan Olsen 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 08:23 AM 6/20/96 -0400, you wrote: >There's no imminent Congressinal action here, folks. Note that HR2441 >may be revived next year, but we have a reprieve for now. I hate to be cynical, but I seem to remember the same thing being said about the CDA and the Digital Telephony bills. Things have a strange habit of getting snuck through at the last moment... --- |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | |`finger -l alano(a)teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.teleport.com/~alano/ | alano(a)teleport.com |

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Re: where'd Bal's PKS go?
by Lou Zirko 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- To: me(a)muddcs.cs.hmc.edu, cypherpunks(a)toad.com Date: Thu Jun 20 13:26:14 1996 > Did it move? I hadn't seen any announcement of this... > > me > -- > Michael Elkins <me(a)cs.hmc.edu> http://www.cs.hmc.edu/~me > PGP key fingerprint = EB B1 68 32 3F B5 54 F9 6C AF 4E 94 5A EB 90 EC > > This is the error i get. Could we have a rUnaway process? ----- Transcript of session follows ----- <<< RCPT To:<pgp-public-keys(a)BIG-SCREW.MIT.EDU> <<< DATA sh: fork failed - too many processes 554 "|/u1/jis/newkeyserver/bin/pks-mail.sh /u1/jis/newkeyserver/etc/pksd.conf"... unknown mailer error 1 Lou Zirko (502)383-2175 Zystems lzirko(a)c2.org "We're all bozos on this bus" - Nick Danger, Third Eye -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: latin1 iQEVAwUBMcmX4MtPRTNbb5z9AQE3mgf/dIQjOBpeaw83FaqnQIj4oaZySYqboUyD J9/EoaF8kwQmPgeQzCj866AY39H7M7srgurz1YXKu7LrMWBuTkobJnsE/tX2TK+y AvTUXtQUlite2rL4uV7664F2rG2r0UfMnjjxv7fhul1Ayg7M2k7jVTLKDD9h21Y9 84ZJnVlka7TId5cmAzSWme0/qHyhuIkkgzEP27jxPeg+v9WM2qgMY3kva9W4yCEk pBxaC7HwJI7vfaurY4dgggakEr4yarBvyITRebYAa02ub8lHTsgAXYsF2I53OPZG nyphOgst4itOME8g0ePpLKFQ8PLn7M/9qdK7oh7JX0jt5dLpJsvE/Q== =7Y05 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Take the money, Harry.
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 01:25 AM 6/20/96 -0800, Tonie Nathan wrote: >> Jim, >Harry should take the money. As Ayn Rand said, "Don't let your morality be >used against you." > > I believe in the philosophy of law. As long as it's legal, each person >can take whatever he is legally entitled to from the government's stolen >money, as long as he/she doesn't ADVOCATE that the coercive tax system be >retained. Many will not take grants, or welfare, but they are legally >entitled to it. As for the moral entitlement, that is a matter for them to >work out for themselves. After all, we have to drive on government (tax >supported) roads, etc. > >Tonie [for the record, Tonie Nathan was the 1976 (?) Libertarian Vice Presidential Candidate. Right, Tonie?] I think the issue is fairly clear-cut, from a libertarian standpoint, _IF_ the money is accepted simply to be returned to the people it was stolen from. That reduces the size of the net theft, produces publicity, and wakes the public up. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Re: [SF Bay Area] Security And Freedom through Encryption Forum
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>SAFE: Security And Freedom through Encryption Forum, July 1, 1996 >================================================================= > For a national encryption policy that promotes commerce and protects > privacy > Encryption technologies, the "locks and keys" of the Information Age, > are an essential component of a secure and trusted Global Information > Infrastructure. Every day, millions of dollars in commercial > transactions and the private communications of individuals traverse > the global network. All are vulnerable to the prying eyes of > industrial spies, hackers, and rogue foreign governments. I'm more worried about rogue DOMESTIC governments, myself. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Search for WWW consultants.
by Joseph M. Reagle Jr. 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

If anyone out there is interested in doing some SSL work, talk to David Normandin at the number below. Feel free to forward this to people you know that would be interested in doing this sort of work in the Boston area. >X-Sender: ceim(a)careerenhancement.com (Unverified) >Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 15:37:04 -0500 >To: reagle(a)rpcp.mit.edu >From: concepts(a)careercncepts.com (Career enhancement) >Subject: Search for WWW consultants. > >Hi Joe, thanks for helping me with this. What I'm looking for are skill sets >in secured socket layers for the WWW, and those with search engines >skills.These are very HOT,long term assignments with rates paying between >60 & 90 on an hourly rate. In addition I also have multiple needs for CGI & >Perl scripting consultants. Please have them forward thier information to >me via e-mail, fax @ 617-270-4443 or call me @ 617-270-4441. Again thanks >for your help and good luck in NY. David Normandin _______________________ Regards, Democracy is where you can say what you think even if you don't think. - Joseph Reagle http://rpcp.mit.edu/~reagle/home.html reagle(a)mit.edu E0 D5 B2 05 B6 12 DA 65 BE 4D E3 C1 6A 66 25 4E

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Stop Cross-Copying (Re: Take the money, Harry, re.)
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 5:19 PM 6/20/96, RogErick(a)aol.com wrote: > I agree with you, Tonie, as usual. > I struggled with this, for years, until I had a dream. I was on a >battlefield, pinned down by enemy fire, and I was out of ammunition. .... Hey, folks, I'm a libertarian, and even voted for John Hospers in 1972. But the Cypherpunks mailing list has over 1200 subscribers, and cross-copying to it for these debates is not a good idea. I presume the same is true about cross-copying Cypherpunks stuff onto "nwlibertarians(a)teleport.co," but I can't say for sure. What I know is that wide cross-posting (or cross-copying) is the bane of lists these days. There are so many lists, so much overlap, that the temptation is great to cc: any conceivably-related list. Hey, no one speaks for Cypherpunks, least of all me, but I think cross-copying between libertarian, or digital commerce, or Wobbly, or International Socialist Women of Color, or Unabomber Brigade mailing lists to the Cypherpunks list is inappropriate. --Tim May, member of Cypherpunks list, but not the others Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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