December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Cut the mystical artist crap. (No crypto relevance here)
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Don't mystify what an "artist" is, please! What the compromises have to do with are that one lives in a society with rules, mores, laws. One of those touch-shit facts of life. You can do what you want, but when it involves other people, restrictions come in. You deal with them, whether you are an artist, programmer, politician, goverment wonk, or whatever. It has nothing to do with selling out or losing integrity. If you want food and shelter and you're not living in the woods, then you have to play by everyone else's rules if you don't have the power to make your own rules. Was it Thoreau who said "Consistency is the hobgoblin of simpletons"?

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Re: Another Motivation for the CDA (Federal Sentencing Guid
by JonWienke＠aol.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In a message dated 96-03-09 04:05:26 EST, you write: >At 9:59 PM 3/8/96 -0800, Bill Stewart wrote: >>The pizza guy was a thug, but twice as many third-strikers got >>their third strike for marijuana as for all violent crimes combined. >>I assume most of these had large quantities, possibly intended for sale, >>and a number of them had real crimes as their previous felonies >>rather than Prohibition-related offenses. But you can get legally >>serious quantities of marijuana by just growing a couple of plants. > >I wonder how many of these drug dealers previous "real crimes" were related >to using violence to protect their drug business, defense which would have >used the courts and police had drug dealing been legal. What difference does that make? If you are deranged enough to murder someone because they are selling crack in your territory, you are deranged enough to shoot your manager after getting fired from McDonalds, or to do any number of heinous things that ahve nothing to do with drug laws. Sick people will still do sick things, even if some of them are legalized. Jonathan Wienke

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Re: anonymous web pages (Was: SurfWatch)
by Rev. Mark Grant, ULC 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Sat, 9 Mar 1996, Nelson Minar wrote: > I proposed this a couple of months ago, there should be a bit of > discussion left over in the archives. My idea was to have an account > keyed to a password - if you emailed the server with the right > password, it would take the text of your email and put it in the > specified URL. Then you can use remailers to preserve anonymity with > the server. It's sort of like the alias.c2.org accounts. I have something like that (not yet finished or released). I run a mailbot which accepts mail to a unicorn.com address and allows remote updating of my WWW tree (and a lot of other things, e.g. mailing lists, multiple mailbox support, etc). It just checks the PGP signature matches the www key in my PGP keyring, and performs the update if it does. Most of the interest I've had in the release version was from people who wanted remote updates of their non-anonymous sites by email, but it could easily be used for anonymous accounts. Much more secure than just using a plaintext password (of course neither are secure if someone can log into your account, but if they can do that, they can modify your Web pages directly). Mark

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shellback.com online
by David K. Merriman 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Just a short note to let everyone know that shellback.com is, in fact, online: http://www.shellback.com Note that our domain name arrived in time; none of that IP address stuff needed. It ain't much, but it's mine (and my partners). I'd appreciate any feedback folks might have about our links to privacy/crypto sites. Dave Merriman -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMUOwRMVrTvyYOzAZAQEZrgP/arTmLrZwjHg9u/KLvyie86vwIleiCz6g xTl54ygZBn4DrmqtvvdKZ8K/ysT9jY9iCFymAell5PS/sMnL1UNFtNw4Sl2t4kOo E6us2f1hpThIMCG6w+6zBJhqWEhI7YqQAKLlIXP8+8BUsyM8hEy7NykCMlrZT/+B kvNXHnH8tW0= =cRL7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------------------------------------------------------------- "Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys." P. J. O'Rourke (b. 1947), U.S. journalist. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> For privacy tools: http://www.geocities.com/capitolhill/1148

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noise levels
by Anonymous User 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

"Perry E. Metzger" <perry(a)piermont.com> wrote: > Noise levels have been rising fast again. I encourage people to think > about whether things are on topic before they post. > > Perry > > This message is generated as part of an ongoing effort to keep noise off of the Cypherpunks mailing list (cypherpunks(a)toad.com) Your message contains no cryptography content. Please do not post messages of this sort to the Cypherpunks mailiing list in the future. Thank you for your cooperation; it will ensure that further action will not be necessary. -- USENET POLICE DEPARTMENT "To serve and obey, and guard men from harm"

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Re: rhetorical trickery
by John C. Randolph 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

tomservo(a)access.digex.net (Scott Fabbri) Says: >An entity self-representing as "Vladimir Z. Nuri" writes: >>sure, a government agent could insist, "well, don't be a bonehead. >>it's obviously his diary, and surely contains all his crimes against >>children". >A standard attitude among LEOs is: "if you're not guilty of something, what >are you hiding?" Skilled ones use this lever to get suspects to allow >searches of their property on the flimsiest of pretenses. This is why we need to adopt the standard attitude of "Well, Officer, If you're not a jackbooted thug, why are you asking me to consent to an unreasonable search?" -jcr

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Re: Vexatious Litigants (was: SurfWatch)
by E. ALLEN SMITH 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: IN%"stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com" "Bill Stewart" 10-MAR-1996 04:29:37.67 >Presumably, almost nobody in Europe is going to add these silly Yankee >rating labels to their web pages, except a few commercial content providers >who want to sell advertising or services into markets that block >un-rated web pages. So schoolkids behind rating-mandatory sites >will have to ask their teachers why the "World-Wide-Web" is just American --- >"It's got All 50 States, Johnny!" <Exonive deleted>! The WWW consortium is approaching European governments about their rating system - the one found at SafeSurf. -Allen

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[NOISE] Re: Do you feel lucky, punk?
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>In fact, I would argue that a remailer operator will actually be considered >MORE responsible, legally, than Mrs. Bennis: On the contrary, the government would have far _less_ ability to forfeit the property of a remailer-operator for the activities of a non-owning abuser than they do to seize Mrs. Bennis's car, because the misuser, Mr. Bennis, was also its owner. On the other hand, I'd say that a remailer used for assassination politics is _far_ more likely to be seized, warranted, subpoenaed, and otherwise harassed that one merely used for unencrypted dirty pictures or encrypted dirty money.... #-- # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com, +1-415-442-2215 pager 408-787-1281 # "At year's end, however, new government limits on Internet access threatened # to halt the growth of Internet use. [...] Government control of news media # generally continues to depend on self-censorship to regulate political and # social content, but the authorities also consistently penalize those who # exceed the permissable." - US government statement on China...

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Re: Bell, Detweiler, Ravings, and Whatnot
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 03:38 AM 3/10/96 -0800, Timothy C. May wrote: >Not my "trademark," though it was my coinage (in 1987). I'm happy it's >gaining usage, by people as diverse as David Friedman, Dorothy Denning, and >various journalists. Well, it's a very apt invention. >(By the way, I also figured out the anonymous markets for assassinations >bit, too, in 1988, and discussed it in detail then with Eric Drexler, Marc >Stiegler, Mark Miller, Robin Hanson, and others. Several of us on the >Extropians list discussed the implications, countersteps that might be >taken, etc., several years ago. Well, until about 3/4 of a year ago, I spent no time on Internet except through a FIDO gateway on Libernet and Libernet-d, so I missed all that. I'm a bit ashamed to admit that I haven't read the vast majority of Cybernomicon, although somebody was nice enough to email me a section on the subject of anonymous assassination markets. I wondered why you hadn't extended the idea to a more general system, but then again that was a bit early if you talked about it in 1988. Without the invention of digital cash, it's a bit hard to reward the assassin. >I recall incisive comments by Robin Hanson, >David Friedman, Hal Finney, Nick Szabo, and others. And on this list, the >topic was discussed a bit later. The archives may be helpful...though I'm >not sure I want to help Jim Bell figure out the holes in his logic!) You might be surprised: There is far more to this than I've described so far. I go into as much detail as a person asks, but it turns out that there are many more apparent "problems" that I've already solved long ago which have never been anticipated by anyone else, "problems" that I've never publicized because by the time the idea was ready for publicity, they were not "problems" anymore. This disappoints me, a little, because I'd hope that somebody (for example, a critic) would be a more effective discoverer of such problems/holes. >And your insulting comments about people whom you disagree with, or people >whom you think are not taking your ideas seriously enough, are reminiscent >of the ravings of the last victim here of late stage Detweiler's Syndrome. >--Tim May Well, maybe at times I do get a bit testy, but most recently on this Leahy bill I'm disgusted to see organizations that SHOULD be sounding the alarm actually express only mildly guarded support for that bill, "wart and all." I'd love to see _most_ of the bill pass, but the one bad section is a real killer. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMUOetPqHVDBboB2dAQEEtwP+L/TjsCr17KwjFMByi+322CCv7E/HJRp/ C0R/LC26rESzHZUawhtZGJzQ5ormn/HpEbNysygYVMs/WbE/1M+gFJK3CJcGwj1F o/d5URKDT1M7IQNF/V5XTsYcZzz1/Cxq0zc3GQ1mtERHyicb/AwhcIXrXVkk9VVt zvvTFMtG/so= =kBX/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Bell, Detweiler, Ravings, and Whatnot
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 3:37 AM 3/11/96, jim bell wrote: >Well, until about 3/4 of a year ago, I spent no time on Internet except >through a FIDO gateway on Libernet and Libernet-d, so I missed all that. >I'm a >bit ashamed to admit that I haven't read the vast majority of Cybernomicon, >although somebody was nice enough to email me a section on the subject of >anonymous assassination markets. I wondered why you hadn't extended the >idea to a more general system, but then again that was a bit early if you >talked about it in 1988. Without the invention of digital cash, it's a bit >hard to reward the assassin. Oh, but you are missing the main point completely. It was reading Chaum's 1985 paper on digital cash that got me thinking about this. By 1988-90, digital cash was essentially in the same state it is in now. Central to my points was an anonymous two-way market, such as the BlackNet market I developed in '93. >>And your insulting comments about people whom you disagree with, or people >>whom you think are not taking your ideas seriously enough, are reminiscent >>of the ravings of the last victim here of late stage Detweiler's Syndrome. >>--Tim May > >Well, maybe at times I do get a bit testy, but most recently on this Leahy >bill I'm disgusted to see organizations that SHOULD be sounding the alarm >actually express only mildly guarded support for that bill, "wart and all." >I'd love to see _most_ of the bill pass, but the one bad section is a real >killer. There are many things I find terrible, disgusting, dangerous, wrong, etc. But I have never been persuaded by people ranting at me and insulting me, so I doubt that rants and insults from me will be effective. (I'm not claiming to always be calm and non-insulting, just claiming that the style of ranting is rarely effective, and I try to avoid it.) Screaming insults at people, resorting to ad hominem attacks on their personality (such as Jim did with Padgett Peterson), ranting about how people are fools and worse, and generally foaming at the mouth...these are behaviors which cause people to be dismissed as jerks, paranoids, and killfile occuppants. Read the archives covering the several months when Detweiler (aka V. Z. Nuri, aka S. Boxx, aka Pablo Escobar, aka about 20 other pseudonyms) was foaming at the mouth about how people were mutating his brain, how the crypto anarchists were ignoring him, how the snakes of Medusa were hiding in his keyboard, and so on. Then note the similarities to Jim Bell. I have nothing against you, Jim Bell, but you are coming across as a loon, as someone who clearly needs some kind of anti-psychotic medication. You rant, you quote excessively, you dissect short comments with pages-long diatribes, you ascribe motivations to your opponents that you cannot possibly be privy to, and you generally act like a fool. I urge you to moderate your debating style before you're just dismissed completely as a detweiling basket case. --Tim May Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^756839 - 1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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