December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

A Cyberspace Independence Refutation
by strata＠virtual.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Mr. Barlow, you've done many good things for cyberspace and individual rights, and I respect you for that. BUT...I have a major bone to pick with this. I'm not accusing you personally of anything, but I think this document is going to cause more trouble than it's worth, and large chunks of it are patently untrue. Untrue documents that inspire people to correct their mistakes can be uplifting, but this one inspires a level of smug self-righteousness that's not going to make the net a better place. See details below. >To: barlow(a)eff.org >From: John Perry Barlow <barlow(a)eff.org> >Subject: A Cyberspace Independence Declaration >It attempts to place more restrictive constraints on the conversation >in Cyberspace than presently exist in the Senate cafeteria, where I >have dined and heard colorful indecencies spoken by United States >senators on every occasion I did. Good call, by the way. I hope the foreword re: hypocrisy also goes into the book. >Or, more to the point, let us now take our leave of them. They have >declared war on Cyberspace. Let us show them how cunning, baffling, >and powerful we can be in our own defense. Let us show them how cunning, baffling, and powerful we can be as armed federal marshals walk into a major ISP and shut down their routers, as replays of Operation Sun Devil occur in people's houses, as major idiocy of the sort that only a scared government in a country which considers itself free can carry out. I don't know which is more disheartening, the actions themselves or the spirit of "we're doing this for your own good" in which they are carried out. But I digress. All the little-boy fantasies of the Powerful Internet don't mean two beans when an officially sanctioned thug turns the switch from 1 to 0 on your POP. It'll happen. Just watch. >I have written something (with characteristic grandiosity) that I hope Yes. >You can leave my name >off it if you like, because I don't care about the credit. I really >don't. I believe you. It's one of the admirable qualities you have. >But I do hope this cry will echo across Cyberspace, changing and >growing and self-replicating, until it becomes a great shout equal to >the idiocy they have just inflicted upon us. Yes, that's what I'm afraid of. See my opening remarks. >A Declaration of the Independence of Cyberspace >Governments of the Industrial World, you weary giants of flesh and >steel, I come from Cyberspace, the new home of Mind. On behalf of the >future, I ask you of the past to leave us alone. You are not welcome >among us. You have no sovereignty where we gather. Oh, let's start right off pretending that a) the net is an independently funded entity with no government infrastructure and b) independent of (non-electronic) world society and world government While we're at it, let's press a monkey-brain hot button in any person of political power by saying their power does/should not apply here. This will not only make them receptive to the reasoning which we will lay out in the rest of the document, it will impress them with our real-world suavity, tact, and general with-it-ness. >We have no elected government, nor are we likely to have one, so I Nature abhors a vacuum. I assume it surprises no one that much of the major flack about the net began when it became widely known to government that the net considered itself anarchic. >address you with no greater authority than that with which liberty >itself always speaks. I declare the global social space we are >building to be naturally independent of the tyrannies you seek to >impose on us. You must be talking about IPV6. Sorry, I couldn't resist. But certainly the TRA and various other things will be *much* easier to implement in the IPV6 Internet. Control structures exist to be used, gang. >You have no moral right to rule us Hello? Are we laboring under the belief that even a scant majority of governments truly believe in the morality of their rule? Or, since a government is a collection of individuals who tend to act with the worst instincts of a mob when only a few are present, that the individuals themselves feel that they are morally entitled to rule? > nor do you possess >any methods of enforcement we have true reason to fear. Like walking into MAE-WEST and powering it down due to court orders. Nope. None at all. >Governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed. Yes. >You have neither solicited nor received ours. We did not invite you. We took a defense department network and ran with it, but since we've been playing with it for over a decade, it's ours now. Just like when the neighbor kid loaned us his toy and we fixed it up, painted it, put new wheels on it, and now he wants it back! WAAAAAAHHHH! >You do not know us, nor do you know our world. Cyberspace does not >lie within your borders. Yes, but. Inasmuch as the culture of cyberspace grows from (as you say below) the actions of individuals, it grows from the "real world" (I hate that phrase, but need to use it to be clear). We were all raised in that world, that world provides many (perhaps most) of the denizens of cyberspace with their livelihoods and access, and both encourages and constrains their actions, from the engineer who subscribes to a gay mailing list secretly for fear of losing his job to the public policy advocate who openly posts pro-net/anti-censorship material to com-priv in defiance of her government post. > Do not think that you can build it, as though >it were a public construction project. You cannot. Yes. Though "building" is not quite what I'd call it. More like when they bulldoze a section of neighborhood which is actually a haven for poor families and an extended culture simply because the buildings and the cultural ways are deemed "unsightly"-- large families living in small apartments and hanging out their washing, sitting out on the stoop being neighborly, etc. Townhouses come up and people don't know their neighbors anymore, but it "looks nice" and thus must be progress. > It is an act of >nature and it grows itself through our collective actions. Yes, but see "real world influence" above. >You have not engaged in our great and gathering conversation, No comment. > nor did >you create the wealth of our marketplaces. You did not pour money down ratholes such as highspeed nets to carry talk.bizarre, sf-lovers, and bandykin because the technical administrators of the existing, government-funded networks knew that cyberspace could emerge if DARPA were tricked into creating it. "Our links are already almost saturated!" You did not provide countless network pioneers a living from government grants nor complain when they spent much of their research time writing network utilities rather than doing AI or compilers or what they were actually being paid to do. You did not pay people to build the network. You did not provide free access and TACACS cards to anyone with the savvy to just ask for them in the late 70's and early 80's, helping grow the core of network culture. You did not again and again provide equipment and resources only to watch them become privatized by the core of sysadmins and techies that you paid over the years, often in outright blackmail ("we'll walk away unless you sell/give us the equipment and facility"). And you certainly didn't do this only to see the same people utterly denigrate the access to those resources and claim that only their time, attention, and effort created the network and cyberspace. Clearly they could have done it without any money, machines, or extant wiring, it was merely more efficient use of their valuable time to do it at your expense. > You do not know our >culture, our ethics, or the unwritten codes that already provide our >society more order than could be obtained by any of your impositions. Yes, like "thou shalt not take home equipment from one's company, university, or govt office without paying for it, even if it is older or unused". Or "thou shalt not steal computer time, long-distance services, etc". >You claim there are problems among us that you need to solve. You use >this claim as an excuse to invade our precincts. Many of these >problems don't exist. No argument here. Dead on, as far as I'm concerned. >Where there are real conflicts, where there are >wrongs, we will identify them and address them by our means. Like use of copyrighted material, for instance. We who forward things from the "experimental" (but going for years) AP and NYT news wire feeds, the Dave Barry mailing lists, the Calvin and Hobbes cartoon daily web sites, we will identify them and address them by our means if we ever decide there's a problem there that we actually care about. Same with snuff stories about real people, harrassment of women, minorities, or homo/bi/trans-sexuals online, etc. Online advertising actually bothers us, so we completely smite and try to drive out of business people who are clueless enough to try spamming. So what if it's like executing someone for a traffic offense, they should have read the manual before logging in. In the "real world", few of us bother to go to the post office and fill out a card saying "refuse all mail to 'Resident'" because it's too much trouble, thus passively acquiescing to the torrents of junkmail and flyers we get from our neighborhood stores. I wonder why they get the idea that direct mail works? > We are >forming our own Social Contract . This governance will arise according >to the conditions of our world, not yours. Our world is different. No kidding. But more on that later, with both barrels. >Cyberspace consists of transactions, relationships, and thought >itself, arrayed like a standing wave in the web of our communications. > Ours is a world that is both everywhere and nowhere, but it is not >where bodies live. Ooo, mystical. My bones are shaking, help me! Our bodies may not live there, but our endocrine systems sure do... >We are creating a world that all may enter without privilege or >prejudice accorded by race, economic power, military force, or station >of birth. Right, only by ISP and spelling and punctuation ability. This paragraph is where I decided I finally had to come out and call bullshit to this whole thing. And how many of the people on the mailing lists that claim to be full of internet liberators, free-speech advocates, people who are "building cyberspace" etc look at something posted by, say, an AOL account, with the same level of fair judgement as they do a .stanford.edu or some well-known company name? How many postings with good ideas have been publicly ridiculed on any number of lists and newsgroups because of spelling or punctuation errors? How many posts with an obviously female account name have been publicly denigrated with "wow, you must be PMS today"? How about "we are creating a world that all may enter without privilege or prejudice as long as they conform to certain literary standards, have a gender-neutral account name, and don't take potshots at any sacred net.religious institutions such as 'cancel poodles' (ah those paragons of democratic free speech), flame wars, and the utterly omniscient and fair judgement of the net.gods, who have proven themselves in the majority of cases to have written prodigious network utilities and made major technical contributions, and therefore must be reasonable, impartial, and pure of heart." >We are creating a world where anyone, anywhere may express his or her >beliefs, no matter how singular, without fear of being coerced into >silence or conformity. I'm rolling on the floor, but I'm not sure if I'm laughing or crying. WHAT PLANET ARE YOU FROM? Can someone take an anonymous poll of the Known Network and ask the following: "I routinely refrain from posting my opinions or beliefs to mailing lists and/or newsgroups for fear of flaming, harrassment, or ridicule, even when I am confident of those beliefs or opinions (strongly-disagree disagree no-opinion agree strongly-agree)" Think about how many mailing list or newsgroup communities are real communities, and how rare they are, and how they go downhill because "too many people hear about it" and people stop feeling that they can participate fully without fear of squelching. Hell, look what the cypherpunk community did to Detweiler! I've never met the man, but I've read his papers and he doesn't seem like a total nut case to me. It's one thing to ostracize someone, but baiting them is going a little far. Similar things have happened in many online communities. "Yeah, there are some real nut cases out there, and sooner or later a big enough community runs into them". Even if we accept that, does that mean we have to handle them with a complete lack of compassion? Do we have to be little boys with sticks tormenting a wounded animal? I don't think so. >Your legal concepts of property, expression, identity, movement, and >context do not apply to us. They are based on matter, There is no >matter here. Awesome. Among other things, all those .sigs saying that the Microsoft Network consents to such-and-such fees if they redist this message, or that this message is copyright the Extropy Inc folks if it appears on this list, etc are just hot air, and those folks won't mind it. For that matter, source code copyrights on the net are just a quaint custom, and so are people's personal privacy expectations with regard to their email and to their files. I mean, electronic privacy isn't a concept of property, identity, or expression is it? What's all this fuss about crypto? Silly people, those legal concepts don't apply here!!! Now go read your users mail like a good sysadmin and turn in heretics to the thought police. Mr. Barlow says it's okay, right here in this widely-forwarded document! Now I understand why there is no fear of the plug being pulled-- so what if this message is being read on a physical screen and is stored on a physical disk, with a physical junction joining it to the network, "there is no matter here". The fact that the computer on which you read this may belong to someone else, may be shut down without your control, may be being misused according to their intent just by transmitting this message, that is irrelevant! OMMMMMMM-- are you receiving this message? OMMMMMMMM.... >Our identities have no bodies, so, unlike you, we cannot obtain order >by physical coercion. The persons we have kicked off numerous online services, such as Cantor & Seigel, email harrassers, stalkers, etc are not really "us", so this statement is entirely self-consistent, Selah. > We believe that from ethics, enlightened >self-interest, and the commonweal, our governance will emerge . Our >identities may be distributed across many of your jurisdictions. The >only law that all our constituent cultures would generally recognize >is the Golden Rule. Even if we don't apply it universally to ourselves, only to those online bodiless entities who meet with our approval and are clearly also members of the intellectual and anarchic elite! > We hope we will be able to build our particular >solutions on that basis. But we cannot accept the solutions you are >attempting to impose. Why yes. Bad law on a bad situation does not make it right. Again, I agree here. >In the United States, you have today created a law, the >Telecommunications Reform Act, which repudiates your own Constitution >and insults the dreams of Jefferson, Washington, Mill, Madison, >DeToqueville, and Brandeis. These dreams must now be born anew in us. Cool. I wonder how much hate mail I will get for this commentary? Perhaps I will be immediately dismissed as a) not a member of the technical elite of netdom or hackerdom, and therefore clueless b) an outsider, ditto (hey, I've only been on the net since 1981, I'm just a pup; and I never became a netnews household word) c) a woman, who is probably on the rag >You are terrified of your own children, since they are natives in a >world where you will always be immigrants. Because you fear them, you >entrust your bureaucracies with the parental responsibilities you are >too cowardly to confront yourselves. In our world, all the sentiments >and expressions of humanity, from the debasing to the angelic, are >parts of a seamless whole, the global conversation of bits. We cannot >separate the air that chokes from the air upon which wings beat. Set BOLE generators on HYPER, captain. Aye aye! Please. This sort of thing is so riddled with inaccuracies, hypocrisy, half-truths, and the occasional kernel of absolute correctness that it ought to be taken out and shot. Where are *our* "parental responsibilities" to network newcomers, to AOL and the Microsoft Network people (to name a few)? How many of the self-avowed denizens of cyberspace feel like "natives" in the "real world"? How many decent politicians do you think are out there trying to do their job and being confronted with only a single tarbrush of shirking spineless cowardice? Yes, I should give up my political career and the hope of building new housing in my district, getting more school funding, etc for a bunch of twenty (or thirty)-something non-constitutents who think of me as a pustulent gastropod. I'll run right out and vote against TRA!! How much do you go out of your way for people who openly despise you and publicly declare your stupidity with every other breath? >In China, Germany, France, Russia, Singapore, Italy and the United >States, you are trying to ward off the virus of liberty by erecting >guard posts at the frontiers of Cyberspace. These may keep out the >contagion for a small time, but they will not work in a world that >will soon be blanketed in bit-bearing media. PTHTHT. Take a look at the hierarchic network structure. Have you made your BIND mods yet to allow alternate root-level nameservers? Tsk tsk-- how will people find you after your domain name gets taken out of the InterNIC servers and your ISP is forced to pull your network number or get shut down? Or rather, how will other people besides your group of fellow net.elite peers find you? >Your increasingly obsolete information industries would perpetuate >themselves by proposing laws, in America and elsewhere, that claim to >own speech itself throughout the world. These laws would declare ideas >to be another industrial product, no more noble than pig iron. In our >world, whatever the human mind may create can be reproduced and >distributed infinitely at no cost. The global conveyance of thought no >longer requires your factories to accomplish. See copyright issues in various places above. And what the hell are you referring to by "ideas as an industrial product"? It sounds very noble, but it has little to do with freedom of speech on the net! As we have all seen, many industrial products ranging from inflatable sheep to magazines as respectable as the "New Yorker" don't have to conform to the provisions of the TRA. And the "global conveyance of thought" hasn't needed factories ever. Broadcast communications media have sufficed, ranging from newspapers to radio to satellite TV. >These increasingly hostile and colonial measures place us in the same >position as those previous lovers of freedom and self-determination >who had to reject the authorities of distant, uninformed powers. We >must declare our virtual selves immune to your sovereignty, even as we >continue to consent to your rule over our bodies. We will spread >ourselves across the Planet so that no one can arrest our thoughts. Isn't that special. Not all of us can afford to go to Switzerland, John. >We will create a civilization of the Mind in Cyberspace. May it be >more humane and fair than the world your governments have made before. We've got a hell of a lot of work to do, then. Let's start by not flaming people at the drop of a hat. Perhaps I myself am guilty of this-- everyone who flames thinks they have a good enough reason. But unlike some people, I've never claimed to be a superior being. >Davos, Switzerland >February 8, 1996 >John Perry Barlow, Cognitive Dissident ************ I don't know what the "right" things to do are to protect free speech on the net. I'm trying to figure that out, like many of you. I do know, or rather, passionately believe, that missives like this Declaration are a major red herring. Every person who takes his or her five minutes to forward this to another mailing list or to his or her congresscritter is wasting time and helping to promote an impression of the net as a place full of immature, unrealistic people. Find something original and concrete to do instead. Spend the five minutes writing and *mailing* an original letter to your elected official and mention you are in his or her district. Write a non-judgemental, helpful explanation of something to a net newcomer. Install PGP on your roomate's machine and teach him/her how to use it. Take an hour to write and post a refutation to a meme which you think will harm the net community. Just go DO something. It's a hard thing to face, that armed persons might come to your door and shut down your livelihood and your main access to your chosen community of friends, and possibly shoot you or your loved ones in the process. The sooner we face and deal with that fear in ourselves, and use that transformative power to direct our actions for individual and collective freedom, the better. Pretending we are ruling a powerful invisible empire which is immune to violence is not the way to get there. Get real about the virtual. 2/11/96 M. Strata Rose strata(a)virtual.net Copyright 1996 M. Strata Rose. This message may be forwarded in its entirety as long as this notice is retained. -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQBtAzDquVEAAAEDAJzWZyzHAO92FpvwUFrGNk3LCHRsTu4BT+scMw/3CdJtWoCB 9HGoj8N/4jLE0kjJH+2iNT0nvfHCjJbd7s1wXUbKcjoJBi6+mUJIe+mjyyjMxuyz ulM1UdqyunAFqCBz1QAFEbQjTS4gU3RyYXRhIFJvc2UgPHN0cmF0YUB2aXJ0dWFs Lm5ldD4= =x64T -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- ************************************************************************* M. Strata Rose strata(a)virtual.net VirtualNet Consulting 408-534-3714 Unix & Internet Administration since 1983 http://www.virtual.net/ *** Better Business Bureau member *** *************************************************************************

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internet underground www address
by Vladimir Z. Nuri 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

my apologies-- I should have included this. the web site for the internet underground magazine I mentioned is http://www.nuke.com/underground.html

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Decense v0.10 alpha available
by Ray Cromwell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I've made Decense v0.10 alpha available publically. There's a few non-critical things to be fixed and plenty of features to be added. I have other obligations at the moment, so I can't spare anymore time right now to polish it up. If you're a perl hacker, take a look at it. The Decense Project homepage is http://www.clark.net/pub/rjc/decense.html You can retrieve the tarfile there. Have fun, and Write Code! -Ray

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does NSA have jurisdiction over sound-eavesdropping?
by Alan Horowitz 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Some conversations can be intercepted as sound waves. Just build a sensitive and directional enough microphone. Does NSA have control over that mission? I'm talking about outside the USA.

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STRANGE SOUNDS OF SI
by kevin.berry＠chrysalis.org 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

* Carbons sent to: Ses(a)tipper.oit.unc.edu CC: cypherpunks(a)toad.com -=> Quoting Ses(a)tipper.oit.unc.edu to Kevin Berry <=- > The Strange Sounds of Silence > > Has anyone else out there noticed the strange sounds of silence > emmanating from the american print and broadcast media concerning the > rider attached to the Telecommunications Act recently signed by > President Clinton known as the CDA (Communications Decency Act)? > Se> Are you sure? The coverage has been wall to wall out here (Bay area); Se> front page above the fold, business pages, computer columns, Se> editorials and editorial cartoons. Apparently it's the same level of Se> coverage back in the RTP. Se> What part of the country are you in? I guess the coverage is different Se> in the major geek zones like the bay area and RTP I know that in the Dallas/Fort Worth, Texas area, there has been no coverage whatsoever. [Using PGPWave 1.22a Beta. This message written on 2/11/1996 at 14:34:56.] ... If it works, rip it apart and find out why! ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.21 [NR]

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Re: Web MIA? (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: >From owner-advanced-sl(a)list.pitt.edu Sun Feb 11 16:38:21 1996 X-Authentication-Warning: list.srv.cis.pitt.edu: majordom set sender to owner-advanced-sl using -f Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 15:07:53 -0700 (MST) From: Hundsdorfer Timothy <hundsdor(a)ucsub.Colorado.EDU> To: advanced-sl(a)list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: Web MIA? In-Reply-To: <01I134RUAVAQ000IVC(a)suvax1.stetson.edu> Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.960211150617.15918A-100000(a)ucsub.Colorado.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-advanced-sl(a)list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Rusty and all: The University has adopted an "academic pages only" policy, so the ASL page died a gravy-sucking death. Both my page and Bahadir's page dying within a month! It's a freaking consipiracy!

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"Helping the clueless" on crypto-privacy: the Zundelhoaxers
by Rich Graves 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- I seem to have introduced one of the leading white supremacist activists to PGP and cypherpunk remailers recently, perhaps because of my promise to archive their mailing list publicly and spoof messages from them if they didn't. I'm so proud. I assume the ADL and allied organizations will be learning more about PGP as well. Type bits/keyID Date User ID pub 1024/C01741A1 1996/02/01 Don Black <dblack(a)jbx.com> ^^^^^^^^^^ Tom Metzger <metzger(a)cts.com> and Neo-Nazi straight woman Ingrid Rimland <ezundel(a)cts.com> do not yet use PGP, but I'm working on it. The message below (Stormfront-L is Don's moderated mailing list for "Aryan" activists, which can be quite entertaining -- subscription instructions at tail) has a few technical misconceptions that should probably be corrected, though of course it would be Bad to cross-pollinate the lists. I've also created and propagated PGP keys for each of Don Black's other email addresses as a way of teaching him about key identification, propagation, and signing. There was an earlier message on Stormfront-L from an alpha.c2.org nym who was having trouble. I assume Sameer helped him out. So anyway, here's the message. I have a few more comments after the included message. - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 13:01:02 GMT From: Stormfront-l <stormfront-l(a)stormfront.org> To: llurch(a)networking.stanford.edu Subject: Re: a message on Stormfront-L NOTE: THIS MESSAGE WAS ORIGINALLY ADDRESSED TO DON BLACK From: Secret Squirrel Date: Sun, 11 Feb 96 13:01:02 GMT Subject: Re: a message on Stormfront-L BTW it is a good idea to sign your own key, as this helps defeat fraudulent use of your pgp public key. (I don't know how it's done, but read about the problem on alt.security.pgp). I've signed my key twice, once with my 1024 and again with my 2048 bit key. I saw a message on Stormfront-L saying that the 'international version' was the best PGP system, however this is only for use outside the USA. It might be best for nationalists in the US to note this in order to avoid any problems. (It does have 2048 bit security, but 2.6.2 can generate 2047 bits, so it isn't that bad!) Also people should use a _minimum_ of 1024 bits as smaller numbers have been 'cracked'. In a message to Stormfront-L re: White Wolf, it was stated that there was problems posting to that address. I can confirm that there is interference with the remailers and pseudo-anonymous mailers. I believe that neither of these systems is secure. In my case I found that one could subscribe to your list, but the moment one posted to it, the account was blocked. Further that anonymous messages sent to the list via a remailer (no a/c) would get through on the first attempt, but not afterwards. This suggests that the enemy inform the sysops of the remailers, and subsequently posting is blocked from those remailers. Further I suspect that the remailers keep 'message in - - message out' ID logs, which means that (if they take sufficient interest) a message could be subsquently traced back through a chain of remailers. There is a method of finding out where messages come from, it is called (I believe) 'packet tracing'. It is possible that I've experienced this with pseudo-anonymous posts to your list. I set up an account with alpha.c2.org via remailers (they wouldn't know my real address) however the messages were stripped from your list, and large numbers of 'packets' of the same size were sent out, i.e. my reply-block only. These packets can be traced through remailers to an address (by people with sufficient computing power). Believe me the enemy is so concerned with the white-nationalist movement, they want to know exactly who is posting. If you search amongst the web sites dealing with security, the details of tracing etc. are fully documented (unfortunately I've lost the addresses due to problems with my web browser cache). The use of anon accounts is useful to the sender, however people who reply will, no doubt, have there addresses recorded at alpha.c2.org etc. All mail sent by nationalists to their comrades should be in PGP, so even if their adds. are recorded the contents will be (mostly) hidden. Although the anon people may hit back by blocking the a/c! The anon server at anon.penet.fi is basically useless for posting to the alt.nationalism group. All my messages have been returned 'unwanted group'. I've also found that the mail-to-news gateways won't accept traffic to those groups either. Essentially the enemy has denied people anonymous access to nationalist usenet groups. For a short period my ISP blocked direct posting to alt.politics.nationalism.white, but for some reason this has been restored. I hope the above has been of interest to you, and if you wish to forward the info. to the list etc., please anonymize it. Regards, - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ To: Multiple recipients of the Stormfront-L Mailing List Host: Don Black <dblack(a)mail.stormfront.org> Finger for PGP public key. To unsubscribe, send e-mail to 'listserv(a)stormfront.org' with the line 'unsubscribe Stormfront-L' in the message BODY, not the subject. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ----- Processed with Listserv v2.83 for Wildcat v4 - ---------- End Forwarded message ---------- I like Nazis and racists. I want to learn more about them. Where they live, how they make their money, who they call, and so on. All completely above-ground, of course. By the way, does anyone know of any security deficiencies in this Wildcat Listserv software that would allow someone to obtain the list membership? They seem to be assuming that it's a secret, which IMO is a bad policy. They should all move to anonymous remailers or, better, carrier pigeons. If you know of any sich problems, please send me encrypted mail, and Cc Don. Of course, you can't be absolutely sure which key is Don's... Maybe you should use the ultra-secure Enigma code instead of PGP. "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty." "We hold these truths to be self-evident..." "Fight hate speech with more speech." "To the ends of the earth I will follow thee." "The pen is mightier than the sword." - -rich Institute for Ernst Zundel Revisionism http://36.190.0.210/~llurch/Not_By_Me_Not_My_Views/ "First, bring down Zundel's suffering in terms of numbers and events, both real and imagined, to what it really was, not what they say it was, what they exploit for their own political, financial, and geopolitical purposes." -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMR6AzY3DXUbM57SdAQFPqgP/VUS9aydQjv6kmJc/fbg6exXQRl17RTKb EaUNftVUZJyMYLpOYg0X/UFH19fpBPQnbw1FFOiOMqSyc3pXtINUMpJZ1mmLI8Ro ZopVLS01d15cx+nZfVTjVF68eGthDgjKKAPZ/FXsn8/8tQtfq6jZsaDNBldWPjAX hlWEctOfdKo= =hck9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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LI Newsday OpEd: Criminal Justice System
by Deranged Mutant 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Found a really good op-ed piece in LI Newsday, Thurs. Feb 8, pA53 by Robert Reno, "If Jails Are Full, How Much Tougher Can Judges Get?" Some highlights: American Jails are more packed with criminals than ever in history. We know this for sure because every time we count them, it keeps showing the percentage of the population that is in jail has quadrupled in 25 years, is higher than any other civilized nation... [...] It is something of a mystery how so many people got in jail because we have it on the testimony of some leading politicians that knavish judges are freeing criminals in record numbers. Pat Buchanan babbles to anybody who'll listen that federal judges are "an unelected elite," solititous of "criminals, atheists, homosexuals, flag burners, illegal aliens, convicts and pornographers." I don't know why he left out gun molls, blood suckers, snake charmers, pig rustlers, serial blackguards, pyromaniacs, and mailbox vandals... [...] ...There is something more to the point, though, than the disposition of politicians to bay moronically at the moon. If we want a more predictable system in which judicial descisions never surprise us, then we have perfectly good functioning models from which to choose from. Take your pick: China, Cuba, North Korea, Iraq. Any one will do. --- "Mutant" Rob <wlkngowl(a)unix.asb.com> Send a blank message with the subject "send pgp-key" (not in quotes) for a copy of my PGP key.

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Re: Strange Sounds of Silence
by lunaslide＠loop.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>Alan Pugh writes: > > Has anyone else out there noticed the strange sounds of silence > > emmanating from the american print and broadcast media concerning the > > rider attached to the Telecommunications Act recently signed by > > President Clinton known as the CDA (Communications Decency Act)? > >I always hear it referred to as "provisions which would ban >pornography on the Internet" or "new laws that prohibit sending >X-rated materials to children on the Internet". Same here. The only dissenting voice was ABC and even then it wasn't the expose that we would hope for. I live in Southern California. lunaslide "Prohibition... goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes... A prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded." - -- Abraham Lincoln On the meridian of time there is no injustice, only the poetry of motion creating the illusion of truth and drama. Henry Miller ________________________________________________________________ -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQCPAzEX3QEAAAEEAOGQjhnqGH29pO1WDaXs5GFOVPhCBWyYEk9XEwRmscjveWzH AhA6DeOA480zWNqQURyqE2yPmR8WzT+OXYqmeiQiycKyFA41Vs/Ruf+gXXxe7uXS L5BK3K8oKbfoH0D5/TAkMT4r6BprXFQz4pFc3gY2SSaSPElpMjKHaKBsRsyRABEB AAG0HUplZmYgQ29ubiA8bHVuYXNsaWRlQGxvb3AuY29tiQCVAwUQMRffHzKHaKBs RsyRAQGNhwP9E9xEZ9/LCKnhgtnrqgD7pDoXG2pCy8FoyfFjoImGkG+jF1wELXmB Z0mf8F8CgYkys0mif1XeGDMelr1gzlZAm6LgQt4kcvztMW/aRLn18QP+iwltVT/L p8D37mitOjvuk46sWgAChIaPPPIeg/EaYQjQkmlpWKsEYIoTRy+E8mU= =4Gku -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

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re: Regulation of citizen-alien communications
by A. Padgett Peterson P.E. Information Security 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>> Gov does have the right (in fact the duty) to regulate communications >> between citizens and non-citizens/sites in other lands >(not wishing to start a flamewar) Why do you think so ? "...provide for the common defense" "To regulate Commerce with foreign nations..." "...or in adhering to their enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort." There are the bytes - try reading them in context. Warmly, Padgett

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