December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

JAV_jiv
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

9-25-95. NYPaper: "Making the PC Come Alive. A Software Language That Puts You in the Picture." By John Markoff A new computer language known as Java is an emerging technology that many industry experts expect to be the next big thing in computing. Just as popular World Wide Web "browser" software like Netscape has transformed the Web from a scientist's research tool into a consumer medium over the last two years, many computer industry researchers and executives predict that the Java programming language will transport the Web to the next level. JAV_jiv (17 kb)

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Re: unSAFE won't pass?
by Will Rodger 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Peter asked me to forward this. Here he makes a valuable point on political organization - something which helps explain why some people are more dire in their tone regarding the state of things here in Washington. Below's what he wrote. W. At 10:31 PM 9/14/97 -0400, Will Rodger explained his view that: >>It may make for good copy, but I think it's just fantasy to think >the >>>administration or their opponents, for that matter, will get what >>>they want this year. Let them swarm. Who cares. >>> >>>At earliest, August of 1998 before anything passes - and even that >is >>>highly optimistic. In politics, unfortunately, you often have to act *as if* the other side is going to win soon. If you don't, they might. A great example was the 1986 Tax Reform Act. Everyone knew that it was too complicated for Congress to understand. Everyone knew that there were lots of powerful opponents to its elimination of many tax loopholes. But the darn thing passed anyways. Even supporters were shocked. The story is told in a very well-written book, "Showdown in Gucci Gulch." When considering what Congress will do, remember that there are 12,000 bills a year introduced in each chamber. Crypto is only one of many, many issues the Members of Congress need to consider. When things get too complicated, a politician might think it's just easier to go along with law enforcement. How many politicians lose by being tough on crime? As for the 1996 Telecomm Act, it's a bad example of what's likely to happen with crypto. That Act was fought between truly enormous companies -- RBOCS, AT&T, cable, etc. Those companies had enormous Washington offices fighting a life and death lobbying battle for years. In crypto, the good guys have nothing like the same lobbying resources. Unlike Telecomm, the very largest existing companies in the country will not lose billions next year if a bad crypto bill is passed. In short, it is quite possible that nothing will pass before August, 1998. It is quite possible by then that the issue will seem politically hot, and thus be dropped so close to an election. But the FBI position might win if we don't act *as if* mandatory key escrow is a real possibility. Peter Prof. Peter Swire Ohio State University College of Law mailto:swire.1@osu.edu http://www.osu.edu/units/law/swire.htm (revised site now includes publications and Internet Privacy Page) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQA/AwUBNB1kfNZgKT/Hvj9iEQK7AgCePoF1G6fB1GhTTinh5U5pa1Q+t48An2gk RFszr9K29WkugUzhmyitgTG1 =Y4HO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Will Rodger Voice: +1 202-408-7027 Washington Bureau Chief Fax: +1 202-789-2036 Inter@ctive Week http://www.interactiveweek.com A Ziff-Davis Publication PGP 5.0: 584D FD11 3035 0EC2 B35C AB16 D660 293F C7BE 3F62 PGP 2.6.2: D83D 0095 299C 2505 25FA 93FE DDF6 9B5F

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New Developments in Fascist Mind Control
by The Real Guy 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I have some amazing news to report! After considerable research, I have developed two technological tools which can be used to manipulate and control the minds of practically all living humans. One tool serves the purpose of seizing control of the individual's attention and putting them into a hypnotic state of consiousness where they can be manipulated into a narrow mind-set. The other tool is designed to store and analyze a wide range of data about every aspect of an individual's life, in order to enhance the effectiveness of the first tool. While I initially had worries that these two tools might possibly be used by people with bad intentions to seize control of mankind and enrich themselves beyound belief, I found, after closer study, that the two tools I have invented already exist, and have not been used for these evil ends, to date. Since TV's and Computers have not been abused, so far, in an attempt by those greedy for power and money to manipulate the people into a position where they can be enslaved and oppressed, I feel that there is no possibility of this happening in the future, despite the ravings of a few wild-eyed conspiracy theorists. I mean, get real, eh? The Real Guy

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`Random' seed.
by Richard Martin 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Vaporware which I heard around CFP '95, and have been sort of wondering about ever since... Some one told me that some one else [possibly Matt Blaze] had been looking at how much randomness could be got by forking two child processes which would just run as asynchronous clocks: whenever the parent program needs a little `random' bit, it queries both and gives (clock(A) + clock(B) % 2) or something. Questions about this [to the list]: * who has done any [the?] work on this? * was it found to be useful/good or not? * what would be the drawbacks to adding this [Yet Another Source Of Entropy] to the Netscape scheme? frodo =) -- Richard Martin Alias|Wavefront - Toronto Office [Co-op Software Developer, Games Team] rmartin@aw.sgi.com/g4frodo@cdf.toronto.edu http://www.io.org/~samwise Trinity College UofT ChemPhysCompSci 9T7+PEY=9T8 Shad Valley Waterloo 1992

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Re: Assume the worst, make lemonade?
by Black Unicorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 01:37 PM 9/15/97 -0400, Donald Weightman wrote: >Well, I'm as angry as anyone about last week's developments, but there's >work to do ... > >Suppose that there is only a 12 - 30 month window for distributing strong >crypto. If there is a grandfather clause at the end, then would it make >sense to approach Chaum or other holders of potentially mission-critical or >roadblock patents, and ask whether they want to revisit the terms of >potential licenses, in view of the storm clouds over the political >landscape? It would seem better to get something *out* rather than wasting >the narrow time window trying to negotiate past impasse. Then why bother talking to patent holders? Just release it on the sly and damn the patent holders. I mean, if your intent is to get the stuff out there, and your essentially going to be committing a felony anyhow in a few years, who cares about a stupid patent suit? What really needs attention is getting key lengths and stego such that they are prepared to endure 20 years of crypto-freeze and Moore's law. That is if, and please understand my examination of the issue to be academic- not advisory, you want it out there in the "underground." >The only time I met him, Chaum seemed to be expressing political views >which might make him sympathetic to such an approach. Chaum is Jurassic CryptoSuit. He waited, and he's about to lose all the cookies because DigiCash did such a bang up job at accomplishing nothing with extremely promising technology. (RSA without the bravado). Placing bets on Chaum for the purposes of getting the technology out is silly. (They just got another $25m and they still only boast something like 2,500 customers in the entire U.S.) Placing bets on Chaum, however, for the purposes of usurping the technology with the hope that it may be legal once again to use it without handing government the key, that might be a worthwhile approach. Perhaps the patents look cheap right now, but if the administration bill flops (don't hold your breath from what I hear), they might get real valueable real quick. That's more like the market savvy approach this group should be taking.

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Save up to 75% on Int'l Calling !!
by callback＠t-1net.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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cypherpunks-e test
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi, This is a test of the link betwee cypherpunks-e(a)hpt.org and ssz.com. Please don't reply unless you are on the cypherpunks-e list. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there | | be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves. | | | | -Alan Greenspan- | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http:// www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Electronic Commerce
by rah＠shipwright.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text From: Ravi Kalakota <kalakota(a)uts.cc.utexas.edu> Subject: Electronic Commerce To: www-buyinfo(a)allegra.att.com Date: Sun, 24 Sep 1995 23:52:47 -0600 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (If you have seen this before, we apologize ....) ---------------------------------------------------------- FINAL CALL for Participation International Conference on Electronic Commerce This posting includes: Final Program, Registration form, Hotel, and Speaker information. All other conference related information can be found at: ----> http://cism.bus.utexas.edu/ravi/ecomm.html Thanks, -- Ravi Kalakota and Andrew Whinston (Conference Organizers) If you are interested, please register quickly as we have limited space available and will not be able to accomodate more than conference room capacity. ************* FINAL PROGRAM *********** Sixth conference on Organizational Computing, Coordination and Collaboration INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE ON ELECTRONIC COMMERCE Theme: Frontiers of Electronic Commerce October 30-31, 1995 ------------------- Sunday, October 29 6-7:00 p.m. Reception at Red Lion Hotel, 6121 North IH 35, Austin, Texas ------------------- Monday, October 30 7:45 a.m. Continental Breakfast 8:15 a.m. Welcome Address Session I: Internet-Based Commerce: The Promises and Pitfalls ------------------------------------------------ 8:30 a.m. An Unaffiliated View of Electronic Commerce Dave Crocker Brandenburg Consulting Issues in Electronic Commerce: The First Virtual Experience Nathaniel Borenstein First Virtual Holdings Session II: Electronic Payment Systems ------------------------------------------------ 10:30 a.m. Implementing Online Payments: The NetCash and NetCheque Systems Clifford Neuman USC/ISI Systems of Electronic Commerce: Payment and More Win Treese Open Market, Inc. Session III: Electronic Catalogs and Brokerages ------------------------------------------------ 1:30 p.m. Smart Catalogs and Virtual Catalogs Arthur M. Keller Stanford University and Commerce Net Organizing for Electronic Commerce Ravi Kalakota The University of Rochester Session IV: World Wide Web and Electronic Documents ------------------------------------------------ 3:30 p.m. Formalizing Web Technology Dan Connolly Massachusetts Institute of Technology/W3 Organization Document Issues in Electronic Commerce Larry Masinter Xerox Palo Alto Research Center ------------------------------------ 6:30 p.m.Banquet at Red Lion Hotel ------------------------------------ Tuesday, October 31 8:00 a.m. Continental Breakfast Session V: Internet Marketing and Demographics ------------------------------------------------ 8:30 a.m. Marketing on the Internet: Who is Making Money? Jill H. Ellsworth Oak Ridge Research Measuring the Internet Audience Donna Hoffman Vanderbilt University and Interval Research Corporation Session VI: Supply Chain Management ------------------------------------------------ 10:30 a.m.Electronic Commerce and Supply Chain Management Jan Stallaert The University of Texas at Austin Electronic Data Interchange Forrest Malone Electronic Commerce Resource Center Session VII: Economics and Electronic Commerce ---------------------------------------------------------- 1:00 p.m. Electronic Auctions and Application to Spread Spectrum Band-Width Allocations Preston McAfee Massachusetts Institute of Technology Product and Infrastructure Pricing Andrew Whinston and Dale Stahl The University of Texas at Austin Internet Service Providers: Changing Dynamics Smoot Carl-Mitchell and John Quarterman Zilker Internet Park, Matrix Information and Directory Services, Inc. Session VIII: Panel Discussion: Issues in Internet Commerce ------------------------------------------------ Su-Shing Chen, National Science Foundation James B. Rapp Richard Bolton, National Industrial Information Infrastructure Protocols Consortium (NIIIP) 5:00 p.m.Conference adjourns ************* REGISTRATION FORM *********** Name (Please type) _____________________________________ (Prof., Dr., Mr., Ms., Mrs.) First Last Title: _______________________________________ Organization: _________________________________ Address: ____________________________________ _______________________________________ City State Zip Code Country Telephone: (_____)__________ Work (_____)________Home Fax: (_____)__________ Email: __________________ Which days do you plan to attend? Sunday, Oct.29 ______ (Reception) Monday, Oct.30 ______ (Lunch) Monday, Oct.30 ______ (Banquet) Tuesday, Oct.31 ______ (Lunch) Registration Fee: Before October 13, 1995 ______ $300 : After October 13, 1995 ______ $395 (Payment must be made by check or money order payable to the RGK Foundation.) Please complete and mail this registration form along with registration fee before Friday, October 13, 1993 to: Electronic Commerce Conference RGK Foundation 1301 W.25th Street Suite 300 Austin, TX 78705 Phone: 512-474-9298 Fax: 512-474-6389 To register for the conference, complete and mail the Registration Form to the RGK Foundation at 1301 W. 25th Street, Suite 300, Austin, Texas 78705. Be sure to include a check for the registration fee payable to the RGK Foundation. The registration fee is $300 for registrations received before Friday, October 13 and $395 after October 13 and includes the reception on Sunday, the banquet on Monday evening, breakfast and lunch on Monday and Tuesday, coffee breaks, scheduled ground tranportation to and from the conference site, and conference materials. ************* HOTEL INFRORMATION *********** We have reserved a block of rooms at the Red Lion Hotel Austin Airport, 6121 North IH 35, Austin, Texas 78752. The special room rate of $89.00 single/double will be available for those who make reservations before Friday, October 13. After this date, the special rate and room availability cannot be guaranteed. Make your reservations by calling 512-323-5466 and mentioning the Electronic Commerce Conference. ************* SPEAKER INFRORMATION *********** 1. Nathaniel Borenstein Chief Scientist, First Virtual Holdings Nathaniel is a primary author of MIME, the Internet standard format for interoperable multimedia data, and the author of various widely used software packages, including the Andrew Message System, metamail, ATOMICMAIL, and Safe-Tcl. He specializes in end-user interfaces, and is the author of the book 'Programming As If People Mattered." 2. Clifford Neuman Research Assistant Professor, University of Southern California and Scientist, USC Information Sciences Clifford Neuman is a scientist at the Information Sciences Institute of the University of Southern California USC) and holds a research faculty appointment in the Computer Science Department. After receiving a S.B. degree from the Massach usetts Institute of Technology in 1985 he spent a year working for Project Athena where he was one of the principal designers of the Kerberos authentication system. Dr. Neuman received M.S. and Ph.D. degrees from the University of Washington, where he designed the Prospero Directory Service which is widely used to locate information from Internet archive sites. His recent work includes the development of a security infrastructure supporting authorization, accounting, and electronic payment mechanisms. Dr. Neuman leads the design and implementation of the NetCheque and NetCash payment systems. 3. Dave Crocker Brandenburg Consulting Title: An Unaffliated View of Electronic Commerce Dave Crocker is the primary author of The EDI on the Internet RFC. He is an active participant in the Internet Engineering and Technical Standards Committee and has influenced numerous internet standards. 4. Dan Connolly Research Associate, MIT/W3C Dan Connolly discovered the web project soon after graduating U.T. Austin in 1990. His industry experience in online documentation tools, distributed computing, and information delivery kept him in touch with the project while he was at Dazel and HaLSoft. His background in formal systems led him to work on the specif ication of HTML and other parts of the web. 5. Professor Donna Hoffman Owen Graduate School of Management Vanderbilt University Donna Hoffman is an Associate Pofessor of Marketing and directs Project 2000, a research program in Computer-Mediated Marketing Environments which is devoted to studying the marketing implications of commercializing the World Wide Web. Examples of current projects include 1) developing the strategic marketing implications of commercial scenarios of the Web; 2) modeling consumer response to advertising and consumer search and purchase behavior in online commercial environments; 3) survey research on Internet usage; and 4) consumer behavior implications of computer-mediated communications. 6. Smoot Carl Mitchell Zilker Internet Park Smoot Carl-Mitchell is Managing Partner in Texas Internet Consulting (TIC), which consults in networks and open systems, with particular emphasis on TCP/IP networks, UNIX systems and standards. He was the principal author of Practical Internetworking with TCP/IP and UNIX, 1993 and is co-author of The Internet Connection: System Connectivity and Configuration. He is also President of Matrix Information and Directory Services, Inc., of Austin. 7. Andrew Whinston The University of Texas at Austin Andrew B. Whinston is the Hugh Roy Cullen Centennial Chair in Business Administration, Professor of Information Systems, Computer Science and Economics and Director of the Center for Information Systems Management. He is editor of two journals Decision Support Systems and Organizational Computing and co-author or co-editor of 15 books and over 250 articles. Recent research interests are Internet pricing and application of client-server computing especially to support groups working collaboratively. 8. Ravi Kalakota Xerox Assistant Professor of Information Systems The University of Rochester Ravi Kalakota received his Ph.D from the University of Texas at Austin. He has been working in the area of electronic commerce since 1992. He is currently focusing on the challenges of organizing for electronic commerce: structured documents, processes/workflows, and broker architectures. His current project is on "New Product Introduction Using the Internet." He is also the co-author of a forthcoming book: The Frontiers of Electronic Commerce (Addison Wesley). 9. Win Treese Director of Advanced Technology Open Market, Inc. Win Treese leads the security and advanced technology groups at Open Market, Inc ., a young company developing systems and software for electronic commerce. He has previously been a member of the research staff at Digital Equipment Corporation's Cambridge Research Laboratory and Chief Systems Engineer at MIT's Project Athena. 10. Larry Masinter Principal Scientist Xerox Palo Alto Reserach Center Dr. Masinter is a principal scientist at the Xerox Palo Alto Research Center. He has been working in the area of document management system architecture since 1988, the Web standards groups from their inception, and the research area of Digital Libraries since 1993. 11. Jill H. Ellsworth Senior Partner, Oak Ridge Research Jill H. Ellsworth, Ph.D., Senior Partner with Oak Ridge Research, is a consultant regarding business on the Internet for Fortune 500 companies, and consultant r egarding business on the Internet for Fortune 500 companies, and is a frequent speaker in North America and Europe about business, marketing and education on th e Internet. A former university Professor and Dean, she holds a doctorate from Syracuse University. Ellsworth is the author numerous books, including The Internet Business Book, Marketing on the Internet, the Internet Business Kit (John Wiley & Sons), and Education on the Internet (Sams/Macmillan). She serves on the Survey Working Group of the Internet Society. 12. Su-Shing Chen Professor of Computer Science University of North Carolina Dr. Chen received his Ph.D.in 1970 from the University of Maryland. He was on th e faculty of University of Florida, Georgia Tech, University of Maryland, and University of North Carolina. from 1983-85 and 1991-95, he served as NSF Program Directors of Intelligent Systems, Knowledge Models & Cognitive Systems, and Information Technology & Organizations. 13. Dr. Arthur Keller Senior Research Scientist Stanford University Dr. Arthur Keller is a Senior Research Scientist at Stanford University. He is Project Manager of Stanford University's participation in CommerceNet, which is doing the first large-scale market trial of electronic commerce on the Internet. He leads the effort on smart catalogs and virtual catalogs. He was Manager of the Penguin project, to provide sharing of persistent object data among multiple applications. He is also working on managing inconsistency in federated, autonomous database systems. His publications include work on database security, databases on parallel computers, incomplete information in databases, database system implementation, hypertext databases, and computerized typesetting. 14. Dr. Jan Stallaert Assistant Professor The University of Texas at Austin Dr. Stallaert received his Ph.D. from UCLA in the area of management science. He has been working in the area of supply- chain management and large-scale logistics problems for several years. He is also a consultant for several Fortune 500 companies. 15. Dr. Preston McAfee Professor The University of Texas at Austin and MIT Dr. McAfee is a leading expert on electronic auctions. He has been retained as the principal consultant by the Federal Communications Commission to devise mechanisms for allocating wireless frequencies. He is also the editor of the prestigious American Economic Review. --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Shipwright Development Corporation, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA (617) 323-7923 "Reality is not optional." --Thomas Sowell >>>>Phree Phil: Email: zldf(a)clark.net http://www.netresponse.com/zldf <<<<<

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Re: Persistent Services Needed
by Erik E. Fair 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

One way to establish persistent services is to use the DNS for indirection: register a name for a service (or a set of services), which then point to servers of those services by a DNS name. If the service needs to move (hosts, net connections, etc), the only thing that changes is the DNS zone file and the references to the service through the name stay exactly the same. Hell, if your service requires no state information or can have replicated data (e.g. DNS, FTP, WWW), you can use "round robin" techniques with very low DNS RR TTL's to spread the service load over a bunch of widely distributed hosts. The NetBSD gang understand this principle: netbsd.org has several servers all over the place: E-mail to netbsd.org is handled at MIT. www.netbsd.org is served up by WWU.EDU ftp.netbsd.org is at CMU. Perhaps Eric Hughes can be prevailed upon to permit "privacy.net" to be used in this manner. Erik Fair

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Re: Federal motivation
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Martin Minow wrote: >Anonymous, signing as Monty Cantsin, Editor in Chief of Smile Magazine >quotes my Cypherpunks summary's quote of Eric Hughes: >>Martin Minow wrote: >>> EH: Why do the Fed's want access to plaintext? The motivation has >>> not been made clear. Policy goals are stated in technological terms, >>> not in policy terms. >> >>Perhaps we can elaborate on this. Judging from their actions, what >>they want is a full blown police state. They've seen the product, now >>they want one of their own. This is obvious to everybody on this >>list, but sometimes people are coy about it, probably in an effort to >>appear to be "legitimate". > >Sorry, it isn't obvious to me. The most paranoid I can work myself >up to is to assume that some (not all) of our leaders want to restore >their half-remembered 1950's Dick-and-Jane, big car, Eisenhauer suburbian >childhood; and are afraid that letting absolute privacy loose will >be the end-of-civilization-as-we-know-it. The discussion is encryption, not absolute privacy. It will still be possible to inexpensively bug homes, offices, computers, etc. Mass surveillance is only required for a police state, not to protect the suburbs, not to protect children, not to catch real criminals. So, when a secret police agency wants to set up a mass surveillance system, what is the likely motivation for their action? >This parallels the battles that were waged in the early 1960's, as >the civil rights movement (and the Pill) shattered the myth of >suburbia. The police and FBI felt, quite sincerely, that they were in >the midst of a revolution and had to take "necessary measures" to >save America. What concerns me is what they will do, not their mental state when they are doing it. Even torturers believe they are doing the right thing. So what? BTW, institutional loyalty does not require every member of the armed services or secret police agencies to be fully cognizant of what they are doing. They just have to buy into the plan. The leaders probably don't believe in Santa Claus, though. >The new cryptography makes the Internet safe for child pornographers, >for revolutionaries, for criminals, as well as for human rights >workers, for religious missionaries in unfriendly countries, and >multinational corporations. Yeah, last I checked, books were still safe, too. >The message I read from the attempt to criminalize strong >cryptography is that the risk of damage from the pornographers (etc.) >is so great that we must restrict cryptography and trust the national >leadership to respect the rights of the good guys. Unfortunately, one >country's human rights worker is another country's dangerous >revolutionary. You would benefit from a study of the activities of the Federal government over the last sixty years. Pay particular attention to the seedy political activities of the FBI and don't forget to cover CIA assassination and torture programs. Then come back and tell us whether you still think they really care about children or whether this is just a reason given to cover their actual activities. (And please explain why organizations which traditionally are not involved with protecting children suddenly find it in their charter when mass surveillance is on the table.) For that matter, study the history of communications systems. Why do you suppose it is that governments have traditionally taken control of postal systems? Do you suppose it could have anything to do with control? Bill Frantz wrote: >At 6:54 PM -0700 9/14/97, Martin Minow wrote: >>Remember, the Martin Luther King who was thrown in jail in Alabama >>in the early 1960's was the same Martin Luther Kings who received >>the Nobel Peace Prize a few years later, and who was killed for >>his revolutionary activities just a few years after that. Whether >>he was a hero or villian depends on who writes the history book >>and it is, ultimately, our responsibility to make sure that many, >>conflicting, history books can be written. > >Most particularly remember that the director-for-life of the FBI used >telephone intercepts in an attempt to get this Martin Luther King to commit >suicide. Good example. This is one of many well documented examples of FBI misbehavior throughout its entire history and even its pre-history. (Hoover was involved with the Palmer Raids following World War I when hundreds of people were arrested and thrown into makeshift prisons without trials. Some were kept there for years.) In the case of MLK, his father and his grandfather were under surveillance by the Federal Government since about WWI. What crime was being investigated? None. They weren't well liked in official circles. Thomas Junker wrote: >This stuff is serious. This pattern is not new -- it is just new >*here*, a development of the last 20 years. Similar slippery slopes >have been traveled in other countries, in other times. These times >are getting way too interesting for comfort. You're on the right track, but the FBI has been a menace to the United States since its inception. Now, however, people are willing to let them get away with more and some truly scary technologies exist. And, they are making their play. Monty Cantsin Editor in Chief Smile Magazine http://www.neoism.org/squares/smile_index.html http://www.neoism.org/squares/cantsin_10.html -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNB19+ZaWtjSmRH/5AQF3tgf9GGK7MZQx0hPBDmAFWqK3AfYzJT3vmRg5 Klas//yGEolw7HeTDnpE0GEXucetx5nyp/5REJqQbYuYizj3DX6r4zDrKE/GXZNB fbiT6+ZCGXbOk1EbLZZCgVwKeRfqN9aaBcCvu45iGH2rFlkKkmmOz+2lQqGEMHIy n9WJpL4BtRXureSTi1xOKk4c5ixTcSVnETLDcr0zE75WX72QD96ZbK1a8cNW9CVV ow+r29BOZPKsLLsMHikC5kIjbA61TOn65I3AzUm8S5LIneHiKWos6NOonFoXPqLI kuKerqPFlP1szWIasI1+qorw6qYgIXKRusNL5+onsNvZSt7S9u3IeA== =Ji8m -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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