December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Starting an e-cash bank
by Ryan Lackey 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

_Money_ is at the root of control of cyberspace. If states control the banks issuing the currency, states will control cyberspace. If the banks/issuers of coins are beyond the reach of statist governments, cyberspace will remain free. Crytpo of course will allow the banks to issue coins, but if they have to follow statist laws, crypto won't really help them all that much -- I don't know many bank execs willing to face down the US Government with nothing to back them up but ~unbreakable codes. What would it take to start an anonymous, private, secure, etc. etc. bank issuing e-cash, located in a country without taxes/etc.? I assume a tax haven like the Cayman Islands or a small third world country somewhere would have plenty of nice tax-shelter banks interested in such a venture. Of course, it would be quite illegal to transfer money to such a bank, but once it's there, wouldn't coins be perfectly legitimate currency? The bank could even make money by issuing coins for $US held in vaults, $US invested in different mutual-fund type things or other currencies, and perhaps even coins backed only by the bank's profits (sounds like stock). A cypherpunk? me?, Ryan <ryan(a)pobox.com>

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Re: Compuserve is Not "Censoring": Look to Governments for the Cause
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 11:17 AM 12/30/95, Ulf Moeller wrote: > From the comment by Niklaus Haublžtzel: > >"Reality cannot be outlawed, only improved, and many still hope that >complete freedom of information and opinion in computer networks can >contribute to that. But the company of CompuServe does not seem to >be interested in that. They only want their customers' money, but >not their freedom. [...] Like any censorhip, this one comes with >hipocrisy. Towards their paying customers, CompuServe claims to have >been forced by German prosecutors. Thus one lie creates another. >That they were forced it out of the question. It is only in >dictatorships that the prosecutors judge the defendants - that is why >dictatorships need censors." Well said by this person! (Except for the point about Compuserve's "greed"...greed is good.) I am hopeful that Germany can move away from this censorious position (whether they prosecuted CS or not, there was clearly the threat of prosecution, and CS caved into it). As with the Cornell case, where students "volunteered" to perform "community service" and thus Cornell did not otherwise discipline them for their speech (the "75 Reasons" joke they sent to their friends), the mere possibility of punishment/sanction is usually sufficient. This is called "the chilling effect" in free speech discussions. Longterm, the solution still lies with moving toward smaller units directly accessing the Net, thus making threats harder to effectively mount. --Tim May We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed

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Re: Is Dr Fred Cohen a Loon???
by R. J. Harvey 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 08:15 PM 12/30/95 EST, you wrote: > >In my experience, people who get so hysterical when a Ph.D. calls himself or >herself Dr. are invariably Ph.D. dropouts who wasted many years of their lives >trying and failing to attain a Ph.D. and are bitterly envious of those who have >succeeded. > Well, my experience is exactly the opposite: the ones who have to brandish the "Ph.D." label are the ones who were the least secure in their abilities, and the ones who seem least deserving of having ever graduated. Often the same folks who feel compelled to put "Dr." in their 'from' lines. This is from one of the numerous people on this list who have Ph.D.s and who don't wear them on their sleeves (and who only "wasted" 3 years of his life in getting one)... rj

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Re: Massey, CEO of Compuserve, on Internet
by frankw＠in.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Peter D. Junger writes: 8< [snip] >One should also notice that Bavaria is only one state in the German >Federal Republic; this case is more like Texas investigating >Compuserve than the United States federal government investigating >Compuserve. Bavaria is the stronghold of what can properly be called >the (Catholic) Religious Right in Germany. It should also be noticed >that in general German publications and television seem to be less >constrained in publishing materials that in the United States would be >called ``indecent'' by some than are United States publications and >broadcasters. > Peter has made some rather astute and accurate observations. (I particularly liked his analogy of Bavaria & Texas. From my experience, I would say that Bavaria is the Texas of Germany.) While the Computserve incident in Germany may provoke outrage here & across the Internet, given the culture and other factors, the incident itself was rather inevitable (really). After having lived in Munich & Stuttgart, I'm just surprised it took so long to happen. (Then again, the wheels of bureaucracy do spin slowly). 8^) I'm not saying I agree with their actions, but I think I do understand the mentality behind the actions. I would venture to guess that the Bavarian State Police were trying to enforce the JugendSchutzGesetz (Protection of Minors Law). These laws are posted in every restaurant, bar, etc. As indicated by its title, the law basically serves to protect minors from the evils of the adult world. It spells out what ages a person has to be to drink beer, hard liquor, etc, and covers curfews and other similar topics which serve to protect the youth. The Compuserve censorship may be the result of an interpretation or enhancement of the JSG - in that because Compuserve really has no way of knowing the age of individuals who have access to pornographic materials, it is not capable of fully implementing the JSG. (Although how this differs from cable TV (which shows porno movies and can't controll who sees them is beyond me). Without commenting on the actions of the Bavarian State Police or Compuserve, I think that perhaps we are applying our standards to an incident in another culture - without viewing it in the context of that culture or country. (In other words, comparing apples and oranges.) FWIW, there are a few differences between the USA and Germany which are related to the Compuserve incident and which may help to understand why the police performed their actions. I am not saying I agree with their actions, only that I think I understand the mentality behind the actions. Anyway, here are a few differences: 1) Germans (and foreigners who live/work there) enjoy fewer freedoms than we do - including freedom of speech, press, assembly, movement, etc. 2) The legal system is different than in the USA. I'm not a lawyer, but my impressions were that the police had far more liberties with what they (legally) can do than do our counterparts here or in other countries. The OJ fiasco probably couldn't have happened in Germany (and he probably also wouldn't have gotten off). 3) There is no real separation of Church & State like we have here in the USA. As a result, the impact of the Catholic & Lutheran churches on the German legal system & government is significant. It has also led the the government subsidizing (ie - providing public funds to) the churches. FWIW, the German government (like every other government on the planet) is ill-equiped to handle something like the Internet and its impact on the social & legal systems of that country. FWIW, the above is my opinion based on having lived there for over 9 years. Best Regards, Frank >-- >Peter D. Junger--Case Western Reserve University Law School--Cleveland, OH >Internet: junger(a)pdj2-ra.f-remote.cwru.edu junger(a)samsara.law.cwru.edu PS - The rest of this mail contains an elaboration of the points mentioned earlier. They were separated from the summarized info mentioned above for those who are short on time or have no interest in the long version. PPS - Four really neat things about Germany are the BDSG (Privacy Act), the mandatory (by law) 6-weeks paid vacation for all full-time employees, their sausages, and skiing. (Their sausages are really great. You might even say they're the best of the wurst. The skiing can be flakey on occasion, though.) 8^) 8^) 8^) PPPS - Have a Happy & Prosperous New Year! 8^) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- The following is an elaboration of the above differences, based on my observations while I was there. I'm not taking a stand one way or another on these differences in this mail, just indicating what they are. 1) Germans (and foreigners who live/work there) enjoy fewer freedoms than we do. A few examples: - it is mandatory (ie - a law) that citizens & foreigners register their domicile address with the police. (When you move, you have to unregister with the police in your old city, & register with them in the new city). - it is not trivial to obtain a permit for a weapon (or obtain a hunting license). - it is against the law to monitor police & government frequencies - until 1984/85), the radio & TV media were a monopoly of the State (or government). Commercial (ie - non-government owned) radio & TV stations didn't exist until then. - the freedom of speech is more restricted than here. Use of the swastika symbol is prohibited by law. Groups attempting to deny the abuses of WW II or promoting the rhetoric of the Hitler regime are outlawed. - all demonstrations must be registered (and approved) by the police before they can ocur. - mandatory store closings (general). Most stores are open 'til 6pm on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Friday. They stay open late ('til 8:30pm) on Thursdays. Saturdays, the stores are open 'til 2pm unless it is the first Saturday of the month (& then 'til 5pm). - all TVs, radios have to be registered with the BundesPost (and you will be charged a fee). The BundesPost uses vans with have the ability to detect which apartments have TVs (as well as which channel the individual is watching). (I have seen the vans & have had a brief conversation with some of the BP employees who have used this equipment). 2) The legal system is different than in the USA. I'm not a lawyer, but my impressions were that the police had far more liberties with what they (legally) can do than do our counterparts here or in other countries. On the plus side, the police are very efficient (but having access to a nationwide databank about every person in the country helps to increase the efficiency in catching crooks). - One law in particular is the JugendSchutzGesetz (Protection of Minors Law). The JSG spells out exactly what ages a person has to be to drink beer, hard liquor, etc. (I believe it also covers curfews, movie ratings, etc.). The Compuserve censorship may be the result of an interpretation or enhancement of the JSG - in that because Compuserve really has no way of knowing the age of individuals who have access to pornographic materials, it is not capable of fully implementing the JSG. (Although how this differs from cable TV (which offers porno movies is beyond me). - One thing to be admired, though, is the German Information/Data Privacy Act (BundesDatenSchutzGesetz = BDSG). The BDSG is one of the most stringent privacy laws in the world. Actually, it is a shame that we don't have a law like the BDSG (with a few minor changes). (Our Privacy Act here in the USA is a joke). The abuses of privacy which result in the collection and distribution of personal data here in the USA is simply unbelievable. - I also had the impression that in the German court system, the burden of proof is on the accused, not the prosecution. This is somewhat analagous to the military courts here in the USA. 3) There is no separation of Church & State like we have here in the USA. - All persons who are subject to taxes are required to pay a Church Tax (Kirchensteuer) of 1% of their pay to support a few of the major churches in Germany (primarily, the Catholic, the Lutheran, and the Jewish religious institutions). The only exemption to this is for those who fill out an affadavit that they have formally left their church or those whose voluntary contributions to their church exceed 1%. BTW, the German tax laws also differentiate between members of the 3 churches mentioned above & others. - Major religious institutions are subsidized & receive financial support by the government (from the Kirchensteuer), as well as additional funding for the preservation & upkeep of historic religious buildings, etc. I remember seeing an investigative report on German TV which provided a list of which religious institutions received how much money and the reason why those funds were given to the churches by the government. I don't remember the acutual sums involved, but they were rather large (hundreds of millions of dollars or above, if my memory serves). - The Catholic & Lutheran churches in particular have enormous political clout (far more than they ever could here in the USA) and are a force to be reckoned with. Although from my observations, the Catholic church has more clout than the Lutheran. Their clout has a major impact on the political & legal sytems in Germany. An illustration of this is that one of the top two political parties in Germany is the CDU (Christian Democratic Union). - The ability of a church's missionaries to proselytize is heavily regulated/restricted - particularly if they are not one of the top three churches mentioned earlier. - In general, the top 3 churches mentioned above are given preferential treatment. Other denominations are generally ignored by the German government. In conclusion: None of the above statements are intended to be critical of Germans or of the German government, or anything/anyone else. These are merely my personal observations. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fortified Networks Inc. - Management & Information Security Consulting Phone: (317) 573-0800 - http://www.fortified.com/fortified <standard disclaimer> The opinions expressed above are of the author and may not necessarily be representative of Fortified Networks Inc.

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Fred Cohen, PhD
by an5877＠anon.penet.fi 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Regarding Fred Cohen, PhD: Cohen's haughty and bombastic style do nothing good for his reputation. I assume he advertises his PhD to highlight his early accomplishments; he has done little since. Let's also consider the granting institution, a second-rank school. Cohen's thesis broke new ground, but how many people have read it, or any of his writings, or know anything about his ideas beyond a single word? How far did he carry this work? Where are the conference and journal papers? Cohen's reputation faded into obscurity long ago. Now he is building a new reputation as a pig-headed loudmouth, threatening his "defamers." Shades of Sternlight. DEADBEAT <na5877(a)anon.penet.fi> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.4 iQBFAgUBMOa9TPFZTpBW/B35AQFLQQGAmzB8o+g5k3mYmzMmk3JiDTBf+P8dSFZY 25IwVISjSV7o95vgbmNWAy/3zVY50AKn =SfU6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --****ATTENTION****--****ATTENTION****--****ATTENTION****--***ATTENTION*** Your e-mail reply to this message WILL be *automatically* ANONYMIZED. Please, report inappropriate use to abuse(a)anon.penet.fi For information (incl. non-anon reply) write to help(a)anon.penet.fi If you have any problems, address them to admin(a)anon.penet.fi

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EMail Blockade for Compuserve?
by doc＠intellinet.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I dont know if this is a good idea. I think CI$ shut off the newsgroups due to economic presure- from some German officials. Drop them or we ban CI$. Now, if CI$ were to shed excess customers in the rest of the world... they might just turn those newsgroups back on. So if folks turned on twit filters and deleted-before-reading mail from anyone@compuserve - and if folks, newsletters etc refused to SEND mail to accounts@ci$ ... well if enough ci$ customers were to LEAVE. This is not a proposal..some of my best friends are at compuserve.

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Re: Internet wiretap?
by Robert A. Rosenberg 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 20:09 12/29/95, Joel McNamara wrote: >This tidbit was posted a few hours ago on c|net (12/29 4:00 PST). > > Thanks to a wiretap on the Internet, three people have been arrested >for illegally > selling and manufacturing cellular phone equipment and electronic >devices over the Internet, > according to Secret Service agent Brian Gimlett. This is the first >time the Secret Service and the > Drug Enforcement Administration were allowed to wiretap via the >Internet, says Gimlett. > >The rest of the story talks about an exchange of e-mail discussing the sale >of various nasty >cellular accessories. There is no information on exactly what "wiretap" >means or any other >technical details. Interesting to note the DEA was in on it. It is not that hard to "tap" a user's account if you are the SMTP server (you just put a Bcc on all outgoing mail and add an extra account to all incoming mail's Envelope). A few lines in the Sendmail parms would do this very simply.

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Massey, CEO of Compuserve, on Internet
by Mark Neely 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>Wow! I am watching the CEO of Compuserve being interviewed on CNBC, >explaining how his company is "taking the high road by complying with the >laws of Germany" in removing access to 200 Usenet groups. >Timothy C. May I assume that C$ is only filtering the newsfeed as it hits German shores? Please tell me they aren't denying access to these "banned" newsgroups for all users worldwide! Mark ___ Mark Neely - accessnt(a)ozemail.com.au Lawyer, Professional Cynic Author: Australian Beginner's Guide to the Internet Work-in-Progress: Australian Business Guide to the Internet WWW: http://www.ozemail.com.au/~accessnt

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Re: Massey, CEO of Compuserve, on Internet
by shamrock＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 13:20 12/31/95, Mark Neely wrote: >I assume that C$ is only filtering the newsfeed as it hits German shores? >Please tell me >they aren't denying access to these "banned" newsgroups for all users >worldwide! I am afraid they are. -- Lucky Green <mailto:shamrock@netcom.com> PGP encrypted mail preferred.

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Re: Australian "calculatorcard"
by amp 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-- [ From: amp * EMC.Ver #2.3 ] -- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- From: Cees de Groot \ Internet: (cg(a)bofh.toad.com) To: cypherpunks \ Internet: (cypherpunks(a)toad.com) Subject: Australian "calculatorcard" Hi everybody, CG> Yesterday, on UK Discovery, there was an item in the programme CG> Beyond 2000 about an Australian card which implements a CG> challenge-response protocol and can be used for banking, etcetera. CG> Basically, you give your card number (over the phone), get a CG> challenge number, enter your pin and the challenge, and then give the CG> response. All in CC format... sounds like the card i use for remote dialup to certain non-public systems i use at work. it has a six digit number on the front that changes every 60 seconds. the card is registered to me. when i enter my username/password i'm prompted for the number. it's Pretty Good (tm) security, but like anything not biometric, it is vulnerable to black-bag attacks. physical possession being all that is required. if you know the algorithm and the serial number of the card and the time, even that isn't necessary. CG> Can anybody provide me with pointers to more in-depth information CG> about this device and the algorithm(s) behind it ? i don't know if there are any net sources for them, but i'd be suprised if not. my card references "security dynamics" of cambridge massachusetts. amp <0003701548(a)mcimail.com> (since 10/31/88) <alan.pugh(a)internetmci.com> PGP Key = 57957C9D PGP FP = FA 02 84 7D 82 57 78 E4 E2 1C 7B 88 62 A6 F9 F7 December 30, 1995 23:29 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBMOYRtIdTfgZXlXydAQGengf9EH07ubUAH43THj3l+6kWUjnXDYfe2DFj CvpEKlFoDkxwllDcIX0KfWK+ENr3YzyQp/yuWU+ZAw/ogci3y5r4IF+oJ4ItrVD6 pZ4AzF5NvXb2KWcnSaQoVsfo3yIt0bfRknuQjGyirntNhLpTkObVygbUmSSNeT8S hrpGB85IkEoy/km3pntCMfrfA0BrED3GCnNLxVYupY7jM7AxbD+mjHvS8to63bPv 68xjB93b+78ld/O0FPsOP7GQMbUZyTJMiLoNwiMhbgEi8Y4dFTlZ6mF6NMHsDxDy p/ocbp2dOj0Vy/BFbfbBqCgdjY3FoExRRHpgav8b0Xd4qNydkFDelg== =MSp2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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