December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Here come the data fascists
by Brad Dolan 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Well, here it comes guys: --------------------------------------------------------------------- LET'S MAKE SURE GOVERNMENT STEERS DATA HIGHWAY IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION San Jose Mercury News Sunday, January 2, 1994 By LAWRENCE J. MAGID (...) Do we really need Al Gore, Bill Clinton, Congress, the FCC, the FTC and countless other bureaucracies meddling in this new industry? The answer is a qualified yes. While industry will and should take the lead in developing new products and services, it is the role of government to take the long view to assure that these services are implemented in a way that is fair and fruitful. We don't need unnecessary bureaucracies, but we also don't want the educational equivalent of lead poisoning or data equivalent of gridlock. The government's role is especially crucial in a world where physical geographic borders are increasingly irrelevant. Think about the cybernetic equivalent of illegal immigration and smuggling. The Internet doesn't have border patrols to protect our intellectual property. The government must be involved, but, as the Vice President has promised, it must also leave lots of room for both entrepreneurs and the corporate giants to play their hands. (...) Lawrence J. Magid writes a telecommunications column weekly for the Mercury News and is author of ''The Little PC Book, a Gentle Introduction to Personal Computers.'' You can write to him via Mercury Center Online at LarryMagid or the Internet at magid(a)latimes.com. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Crypto? Why that would make it impossible for the data police to do their jobs! Anyway, only someone with something to hide would use crypto! Try to hold 'em off with this one, it worked elsewhere for a while: "When crypto is outlawed, only outlaws will have crypto". It's like listening to the raindrops at the start of a storm. Corporate America just woke up and realized we have a good thing that it doesn't control. It will soon rectify that. Pessimistically yours, bdolan(a)well.sf.ca.us

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Re: Question for article
by collins＠newton.apple.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>Say someone fucks you over (real or imagined) or flames you severely. What >sort of nasty things can you do to them or their data? You know, like >e-mail bombings etc. I don't need particulars, since this is pointed at a >mainstream audience. (It also might not get published if the technophobic >editor(s) think its too risque, if you know what I mean.) You can: - 1 - If the damage done you was real, not just an annoyance, then you might litigate. - 2 - Otherwise, or if there is reason to believe that it was without intent, then you could be a grown-up: live and learn. Purile retaliation is the demesne of bullies and children. >I have some ideas already, but I'd like to hear from the pros. :-> This sounds like people who study martial arts so they can `really kick some ass'. Serious students of many disciplines consider it for defense only. This is the case with the technology of privacy. You have seriously mistaken this list. This is not a list of `expert electronic vigalantes' who deal out home brew justice. This is a group of people with concerns about technological encroachment on personal privacy, and ensuring that the information age doesn't swallow law abiding citizens into a new world of glass houses. I am sorry to say I can easily imagine what you must have been reading to give you this impression. Scott Collins | "Few people realize what tremendous power there | is in one of these things." -- Willy Wonka ......................|................................................ BUSINESS. voice:408.862.0540 fax:974.6094 collins(a)newton.apple.com Apple Computer, Inc. 5 Infinite Loop, MS 305-2B Cupertino, CA 95014 ....................................................................... PERSONAL. voice/fax:408.257.1746 1024:669687 catalyst(a)netcom.com

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POLI: Politics vs Technol
by Duncan Frissell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

H>Have people forgotten the Clipper proposal, with the possible H>follow-on to make non-Clipper encryption illegal? To the extent this H>proposal has been or will be defeated, it will happen through political H>maneuvering, not technology. If it got that far, a ban on unapproved crypto would be defeated by litigation not politicking. There is no chance that a crypto ban would be upheld by the Supremes these days. The courts have explicitly ruled that one can speak other languages (than English) if one wishes. Crypto is just another language. H>Have people forgotten the PGP export investigation? Phil Zimmermann H>hasn't. He and others may be facing the prospect of ten years in prison H>if they were found guilty of illegal export. I'd like to see some indictments first. The trial would be fun. Long sentences are unlikely in any case. H>If anyone has any suggestions for how to escape from jail into H>cyberspace I'd like to hear about them. The same way one survives and atomic bomb (for those who asked) by *not* being there when it goes off. Those indicted have two years prior to trial to leave the country. Anyone who can't figure out how to flee the jurisdiction in two years deserves prison. H>Mike's SecureDrive is a terrific program for protecting privacy. But H>if we want to keep keys secret from politically-motivated H>investigations, we have to rely on the very political and H>non-technological Fifth Amendment (an amendment which Mike Godwin of EFF H>and others contend does not actually protect disclosure of cryptographic H>keys). Again, we need to win political, not technological, victories in H>order to protect our privacy. Encryption alone will absolutely protect the 99.99% of communications that are never the subject of any government disclosure orders. Investigations take *serious* money. The government can only investigate (let alone prosecute) a very small number of individuals. Since much of their attention will necessarily be on others, the members of this list -- much less the general public -- have little to worry about. What's the big deal. Dan White emptied his revolver into the Mayor of the City of San Francisco, reloaded, and then emptied it again into the body of a member of the Board of Supervisors. For this crime, he served 5 years and 2 months. Since nothing we are doing is worse, we can't serve more than that amount of time. (I know, I know. Just kidding.) The criminal justice system is a pretty dull tool, however. The Feds have lost most of the big political cases that went to trial over the last few years. They lost all but one of the insider trading cases. They lost the BCCI case. They lost the Ollie North prosecution. They lost the Steve Jackson games case. In confrontations with the Feds, behave like the guy who was acquitted of insider trading in the Princeton Partners case -- wear a Cat hat reading "Shit Happens" to all the negotiating sessions. Remember too that in the absence of war, 99.99% of the damage "the government" does to you is actually self inflicted. Don't obey. Don't line up. Don't fill out the proper forms, properly. Don't give them your right name and address. Keep fixed in your mind the words of the first rebel, a fallen angel, who said, "Non Servatum" (I will not serve). DCF Who will request that the jury at *his* trial be required to watch Schindler's List. --- WinQwk 2.0b#1165

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Clipper FOIA requests...
by a2＠ah.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I would like to publicly thank John Gilmore for his tireless pursuit of this important issue. -a2

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Clipper FOIA requests...
by m5＠vail.tivoli.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Arthur Abraham writes: > I would like to publicly thank John Gilmore for his tireless pursuit > of this important issue. Here here. Hip hip hoorah, and so on. I think it embodies the spirit in which this country was founded, a spirit that seems more and more remote nowadays. -- Mike McNally :: m5(a)tivoli.com :: Day Laborer :: Tivoli Systems :: Austin \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\_-u-t-a-o-h-r-s-c-l- -r-e- -e-t-c-e ///////////////////////////////////// j-s- -n-t-e- -i-k-y-g-e-n-t-n-a-l

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OUTPOSTS - A List of CyberLiberties Organizations, 01/03/93
by Stanton McCandlish 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-=> OUTPOSTS <=- on the Electronic Frontier International, National, Regional & Local Groups Supporting the Online Community List Updated 01/03/94 For those readers interested in hooking up with regional groups that are organized to work on projects to improve online communications, feel free to contact any of the folks listed below with your ideas and to learn more about how you can get involved. We are constantly looking to update this list, so if you know of other groups that we should add, or if you are trying to form a group in your local area, please forward the name of the group and contact information to Stanton McCandlish <mech(a)eff.org>. Please also inform of any updates or changes that need to be made. This list is copylefted freeware; distribute at will. Please! Check your entry regularly and make sure it is up to date. [Apologies to those that receive multiple copies, but I am attempting to make certain that it gets to EVERYONE listed herein, so that they can verify the information on them it contains. Please do so, even if just to tell me "it's ok, no changes". -=>NATIONAL/INTERNATIONAL<=- -USA- Electronic Frontier Foundation Non-profit public interest organization, concentrating on ensuring that civil liberties are retained, expanded and protected in the emerging information age. Supports legal and legislative action to protect civil rights online. Supports and/or hosts various conferences and projects, including Big Dummy's Guide to the Internet, and Computers and Academic Freedom. General: Stanton McCandlish <mech(a)eff.org>, Online Activist Legal: Shari Steele <ssteele(a)eff.org>, Dir. of Legal Services Mike Godwin <mnemonic(a)eff.org>, Online Counsel Policy/Open Platform/NII: Daniel J. Weitzner (djw(a)eff.org) Senior Staff Counsel Tech: Dan Brown <brown(a)eff.org>, Systems Administrator Basic info: info(a)eff.org Mailing list requests: eff(a)eff.org Online newsletter: Stanton McCandlish <mech(a)eff.org> Hardcopy publications: pubs(a)eff.org Membership: membership(a)eff.org Net services: ftp.eff.org, archie.eff.org, wais.eff.org http://www.eff.org/ Usenet: comp.org.eff.talk, comp.org.eff.news, alt.politics.datahighway WELL: g eff AOL: keyword EFF CIS: GO EFFSIG 1001 G St. NW, Suite 950 E Washington DC 20001, USA voice: +1 202 347 5400 fax: +1 202 393 5509 Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility (CPSR) CPSR is a national membership organization, based in Palo Alto, California. CPSR conducts many activities to protect privacy and civil liberties. Membership is open to the public and support is welcome. CPSR maintains local chapters in Austin, TX; Berkeley, CA; Boston, MA; Chicago, IL; Washington, DC; Los Angeles, CA; Madison, WI; Palo Alto, CA; Portland, OR; Denver- Boulder, CO; Seattle, WA; and elsewhere [where information is available, these chapters are listed separately under REGIONAL.] General (nat'l. HQ): cpsr(a)csli.stanford.edu General (Wash. offc.): Marc Rotenberg <rotenberg(a)washofc.cpsr.org> Mailing list: listserv(a)gwuvm.gwu.edu (message body of: subscribe cpsr [your 1st & last name]) Telecom Policy Roundtable: Jeff Chester <cme(a)access.digex.net>, voice: +1 202 628 2620 CPSR National Office CPSR Washington Office P.O. Box 717 666 Pennsylvania Ave. SE, Ste. 303 Palo Alto CA 94302 USA Washington DC 20003 USA Voice: +1 415 322 3778 Voice: +1 202 544 9240 Fax: +1 415 322 3798 Fax: +1 202 547 5482 -AUSTRALIA- Electronic Frontiers Australia (EFA) EFA is still in the process of forming and getting organized. Michael Baker <mbaker(a)apanix.apana.org.au> has announced the incept of a new Internet mailing list forum for discussion and planning in the effort to form a public interest electronic civil liberties organization in Australia: Electronic Frontiers Australia. To participate, send a subscribe request to the address listed below. Baker says to "point any other potential interested people from Australia to the list." General: Michael Baker <mbaker(a)apanix.apana.org.au> Mailing list requests: efa-request(a)iinet.com.au -=>REGIONAL/LOCAL<=- -USA- *ALABAMA* HUNTSVILLE Huntsville Group Matt Midboe <mmidboe(a)nyx.cs.du.edu> *CALIFORNIA* LOS ANGELES METRO AREA CPSR/Los Angeles (CPSR/LA) [See CPSR under NATIONAL for more info; no further info available.] PALO ALTO CPSR/Palo Alto See CPSR under NATIONAL for more information. CPSR/PA local chapter not to be confused with CPSR National Office in Palo Alot, though the mailing address is the same. Supports various projects and groups, including the "Assembler Multitude" nano- technology SIG. General/newsletter: Andre Bacard <abacard(a)well.sf.ca.us> Assembler Multitude: Ted Kaehler <kaehler2(a)applelink.apple.com> [See CPSR under National for more contact info.] SAN FRANCISCO BAY/BERKELEY AREA BAWiT (Bay Area Women in Telecom) Hosted by CPSR/B (see below), and probably involved with This!Group, BAWiT is a group of women working with telecom to make the online community inclusive rather than exclusive of women and other minorities. The working group's activities include outreach and mentoring, and providing speakers for events & informal online discussions. Info: Judi Clark <judic(a)sunnyside.com, judic(a)netcom.com> Online conferences: listserv(a)cpsr.org (message body containing: subscribe bawit-announce [1st & last name]) CPSR/Berkeley See CPSR, under NATIONAL for more information. Besides standard CPSR projects, CPSR/B hosts the Bay Area Women in Telecom and Working in the Computer Industry working groups. General: cpsr-berkeley(a)csli.standford.edu Newsletter: Jim Davis <cpsr-berkeley(a)csli.stanford.edu> Judi Clark <judic(a)netcom.com> mailing lists: listserv(a)cpsr.org (cpsr-cpu, bawit-announce, etc.) ftp site: cpsr.org CPSR/B P.O. Box 40361 Berkeley, CA 94704 voice: +1 415 398 2818 This!Group Judi Clark <judic(a)netcom.com> [This!Group is dormant, as of this writing.] *COLORADO* DENVER/BOULDER METRO AREA CPSR/Denver-Boulder (CPSR/DB) [See CPSR under NATIONAL for more info; no further info available.] *DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA/WASHINGTON DC METRO AREA* CapAccess General: capacces(a)gwuvm.gwu.edu Voice: Taylor Walsh, +1 202 466 0522, +1 301 933 4856 CPSR/DC See CPSR under NATIONAL for more information. DC Chapter not to be confused with DC Nat'l. Office of CPSR. General/mailing lists: Larry Hunter <hunter(a)nlm.nih.gov> Electoral Issues: Eva Waskell, voice: +1 703 435 1283 evenings Voice: +1 202 728 8347 (Joel Wolfson, CPSR/DC Co-Chair) Group 2600 [and some public access operators] Bob Stratton <strat(a)intercon.com, strat(a)uunet.uu.net> Mikki Barry <ooblick(a)intercon.com> *ILLINOIS* CHICAGO CPSR/Chicago [See CPSR under NATIONAL for more info; no further info available.] *MASSACHUSSETTS* CAMBRIDGE-BOSTON METRO AREA CPSR/BOSTON [See CPSR under NATIONAL for more info; no further info available.] EF128 (Electronic Frontier Route 128). Lar Kaufman <lark(a)ora.com> *MICHIGAN* ANN ARBOR Ann Arbor Computer Society [& others] General: Ed Vielmetti <emv(a)msen.com> Msen gopher: gopher.msen.com Msen mailing list: majordomo(a)mail.msen.com "info aacs" Msen Inc. 628 Brooks Ann Arbor MI 48103 USA Voice: +1 313 998 4562 Fax: +1 313 998 4563 *MISSISSIPPI* GULF COAST SotMESC/GCMS Local chapter with chapters in Alaska, Orlando Florida, Atlanta Georgia, Mobile Alabama, Montgomery Alabama, Oxford Miss, California, Ocean Springs Miss, and other locations. R. Jones <rjones%usmcp6.bitnet(a)vm.tcs.tulane.edu> PO Box 573 Long Beach, MS 39560 *MISSOURI* KANSAS CITY AREA Greater Kansas City Sysop Association Scott Lent <slent(a)vax1.umkc.edu> GKCSA P.O. Box 14480 Parkville, MO 64152 Voice: +1 816 734 2949 BBS: +1 816 734 4732 *NEW YORK* NEW YORK CITY METRO AREA Society for Electronic Access (SEA) The SEA promotes and informs about civil liberties and public access online. SEA is based in New York City, so many of our activities are focused toward the New York metropolitan area, though issues of national concern are addressed. Queries: sea(a)sea.org General Info: sea-info(a)panix.com - E-mail or finger Simona Nass <simona(a)sea.org>: President Alexis Rosen <alexis(a)sea.org>: Vice-President Steve Barber <sbarber(a)sea.org>: Secretary/Media Contact Eleanor Evans <piglet(a)sea.org>: Membership Director Post Office Box 3131 Church Street Station New York, NY, 10008-3131 Voice: +1 212 592 3801 WESTERN NY STATE Genesee Community College Group General: Thomas J. Klotzbach <3751365(a)mcimail.com, klotzbtj(a)snybufva.cs.snybuf.edu> Thomas J. Klotzbach Genesee Community College Batavia, NY 14020 Voice (work) +1 716 343 0055 x358 *OHIO* CLEVELAND Cleveland Freenet Telnet: freenet-in-a.cwru.edu Modem dialup: +1 216 368 3888 *OKLAHOMA* STILLWATER [group name unknown] General: Lonny L. Lowe <u941013(a)unx.ucc.okstate.edu> Freelance Consulting 514 S. Pine Stillwater OK 74074-2933 USA Voice: +1 405 747 4242 *OREGON* PORTLAND CPSR/Portland See CPSR under NATIONAL for more information. Newsletter & General: Erik Nilsson <erikn(a)goldfish.mitron.tek.com> *TENNESSEE* NASHVILLE [Group name unknown] General: Craig Owensby <basset(a)jackatak.raider.net> Craig Owensby 805 Harpeth Bend Dr. Nashville TN 37205 Voice: +1 615 662 2011 (home) +1 615 248 5271 (work) *TEXAS* AUSTIN CPSR/Austin [See CPSR under NATIONAL for more info; no further info available.] Electronic Frontier Foundation - Austin (EFF-Austin) EFF-Austin was formed to protect constitutional guarantees of free speech and freedom from unreasonable search and seizure for users of computer networks. Experience has taught us that these freedoms must be fought for if they are to survive in the online world. EFF-Austin was created as an experimental local chapter of the national EFF but became independent in 1993 while retaining contacts with the parent organization. We're heavily involved in public speaking, education, and advocacy of constitutional rights in cyberspace. We're Austin's forum for discussion of all concerns related to the cutting edge where society meets technology. General: eff-austin-moderator(a)tic.com Mailing list subscriptions: eff-austin-request(a)tic.com Directors: eff-austin-directors(a)tic.com Usenet: austin.eff FTP: ftp.tic.com, eff-austin directory Gopher: gopher.tic.com, EFF-Austin (option #9) EFF-Austin P.O. Box 18957 Austin TX 78760 USA Voice: +1 512 465 7871 BBS: the SMOFboard +1 512 467 7317 HOUSTON Electronic Frontiers Houston (EFH) a non-profit corporation devoted to working with and for the Houston computer and telecommunications community. Working in alliance with the Electronic Frontier Foundation, EFF-Austin and other national and regional organizations, EFH acts as a focal point for the diverse set of individuals who find themselves involved in computer communications. Included on the EFH's agenda are: advocating civil liberty issues in "cyberspace," promoting wider public access to computer networks, exploring artistic and social implications of new digital media, and educating the public about the increasingly important on-line world. General: efh(a)blkbox.com WWIVnet: efh@5285 Board of Directors: efh-directors(a)blkbox.com (efh-directors@5285 on WWIVnet) Usenet: houston.efh.talk FTP: ftp.tic.com, EFH directory Gopher: gopher.tic.com, Electronic Frontiers Houston (option #10) EFH 2476 Bolsover #145 Houston TX 77005 USA Voice: Ed Cavazos, +1 713 661 1561 BBS: Bamboo Gardens +1 713 665 4656 (login as EFH GUEST, pw EFH) *WASHINGTON [STATE]* - see DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA for WASH. DC SEATTLE CPSR/Seattle [See CPSR under NATIONAL for more info; no further info available.] *WISCONSIN* MADISON CPSR/Madison [See CPSR under NATIONAL for more info; no further info available.] -CANADA- *BRITISH COLUMBIA* VICTORIA/VANCOUVER I. AREA Victoria Freenet Association (ViFA) General: vifa(a)cue.bc.ca ViFA, c/o Vancouver I. Advanced Technology Centre 203-1110 Government St. Victoria BC V8W 1Y2 CANADA Voice: +1 604 384 2450 Fax: +1 604 384-8634 *ONTARIO* OTTOWA National Capital Freenet [No further info available.] -CYBERSPACE- *INTERNET* TheseGroups TheseGroups is a mailing list expressly for and about groups, individuals and organizations like those listed here, wherein ideas and experiences can be exchanged, leading to better inter-communication and cross-pollenization. This is not a conference for lurkers or chatterers, but for those that really want to get some work done, and who wish to make a difference. List address: thesegroups(a)tic.com Subscription requests: thesegroups-request(a)tic.com General: Pretiss Riddle <riddle(a)tic.com> CYPHERPUNKS The Cypherpunks mailing lists exist for those interested in cryptography and it's political rammifications, programming encryption software, creation of digital cash and electronic banking via secure (and anonymous) crypto tech, local crypto- oriented activism, hacking cypher hardware, and more. There also tends to be much libertarian/anarcho-capitalist debate as well. The main list is VERY high-traffic. The UK branch generally goes by the name of UK Crypto-Privacy Assoc. The CypherWonks list is a split-off that is generally opposed to the anarchic stance of some on the main list. There are also some local lists [no info on these as of yet.] Main list: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Main request: cypherpunks-request(a)toad.com Main info: hughes(a)soda.berkeley.edu Hardware list: cp-hardware(a)nextsrv.cas.muohio.edu Hardware request: cp-hardware-request(a)nextsrv.cas.muohio.edu Hardware info: jdblair(a)nextsrv.cas.muohio.edu Wonks list: cypherwonks(a)lists.eunet.fi Wonks request: majordomo(a)lists.eunet.fi (message body of: subscribe cypherwonks [1st & last name] [address]) Wonks info: cypherwonks-owner(a)lassie.eunet.fi *USENET* comp.org.eff.talk/comp.org.eff.news These newsgroups (online conferences), also gated to Internet mailing lists and Fidonet echomail conferences, serve as much more that EFF house organs, and are "hot spots" for online debate on issues such as civil liberties online, legal liabilities of system operators, copyright and net distribution, the development of a national public network, and more. Some other groups that may be relevant to such interests: alt.activism alt.activism.d alt.2600 alt.privacy alt.privacy.clipper alt.security.pgp sci.crypt misc.legal comp.risks talk.politics.crypto alt.politics.datahighway alt.cyber* and many more This FAQ is maintained by Stanton McCandlish <mech(a)eff.org>, and is based on a previous version by Shari Steele. Future updates will be posted to the TheseGroups mailing list and comp.org.eff.talk, besides a few other places. The most current version is archived on ftp.eff.org, pub/Groups/regional_groups.list, and is available for anonymous ftp. -- Stanton McCandlish * mech(a)eff.org * Electronic Frontier Found. OnlineActivist F O R M O R E I N F O, E - M A I L T O: I N F O @ E F F . O R G O P E N P L A T F O R M O N L I N E R I G H T S V I R T U A L C U L T U R E C R Y P T O

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Re: Here come the data fascists
by fnerd＠smds.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Brad Dolan <bdolan(a)well.sf.ca.us> fwds (thanks, Brad)- > San Jose Mercury News > By LAWRENCE J. MAGID <magid(a)latimes.com> > > Do we really need Al Gore, Bill Clinton, Congress, the FCC, the FTC and > countless other bureaucracies meddling in this new industry? > The answer is a qualified yes. I love this resurgence of the idea of "just a little" regulation. How to be a plausible policy wonk straight out of the box. As if it were a new idea. As if that weren't how it always starts. Oh boy, a new field for everyone to propose their two cents worth of regulation on. > ...The > government must be involved, but, as the Vice President has promised, > it must also leave lots of room for both entrepreneurs and the corporate > giants to play their hands. ! "We must make positive noises about small business while protecting the status quo." I heard snippets of what must have been Gore, on NPR, talking to the National Press Club. Snippets because I would switch back to TV when the commercials were over or... Well, for instance (I paraphrase): "I want to start with a story... Why did the Titanic fail to hear all the warnings about ice fields at their latitude? Why did other ships fail to hear their distress calls? Because the radio telegraph business was run *as* a business in those days. No one was required to be listening<click>" I know I should have let Star Trek tape and kept listening to this Guy; I just wimped. Maybe he somehow completed his thought reasonably. I hope things work out. Gore and policy wonks and industry reps have all said good things, but also all those great short turning radius waffle words. Brad comments: > It's like listening to the raindrops at the start of a storm. Like watchin' 'em spray the primer. -fnerd quote me - - cryptocosmology- sufficiently advanced communication is indistinguishable from noise -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.3a aKxB8nktcBAeQHabQP/d7yhWgpGZBIoIqII8cY9nG55HYHgvt3niQCVAgUBLMs3K ui6XaCZmKH68fOWYYySKAzPkXyfYKnOlzsIjp2tPEot1Q5A3/n54PBKrUDN9tHVz 3Ch466q9EKUuDulTU6OLsilzmRvQJn0EJhzd4pht6hSnC1R3seYNhUYhoJViCcCG sRjLQs4iVVM= =9wqs -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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TECHNOLOGY v. POLITICS
by Sandy 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SANDY SANDFORT Reply to: ssandfort(a)attmail.com . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Mike Ingle wrote: . . . when something fascistic like Digital Telephony or Clipper comes along, we have to fight it. But if we win, it will just return the next time something scares the government. There can be no permanent victory through politics. The only way to win permanently is to hold them off through politics and public opinion long enough so that everyone has encryption and is using it. . . . Absolutely correct. It reminds me of the Soldier of Fortune t-shirt: PEACE THROUGH SUPERIOR FIREPOWER Works for me. S a n d y >>>>>> Please send e-mail to: ssandfort(a)attmail.com <<<<<< ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.3a iQCVAgUBLShUR05ULTXct1IzAQGrxQP9Gpr/iXLetX+c7C++SAZ6ZlnYmS6H5ECr 40yUfz+j1wZvkEQztt+dqpU9Jvfi79I3TtBf6nJH1BNGrHfmIUxGZQ0srK2ccoIv 6bjX6QwgUwADMKQvmsn+v1NMlC9vGrEIyih3c2rH/CsSHkPkNI28wjC90ROvzMhU oSGeOaOOQyk= =I/Io -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: io.com
by fnerd＠smds.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Paul Ferguson <ferguson(a)icp.net> fwds from Bruce Sterling <bruces(a)well.sf.ca.us> who says- > ...And Steve Jackson, rather than owning the > single-line bulletin board system "Illuminati" seized in > 1990, now rejoices in possession of a huge privately-owned > Internet node, "io.com," with dozens of phone-lines on its own T-1 > trunk. Oh, I...was confusing IO with EO. Can someone say more about what io.com does and how Steve Jackson got to this point? -fnerd quote me - - cryptocosmology- sufficiently advanced communication is indistinguishable from noise -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.3a aKxB8nktcBAeQHabQP/d7yhWgpGZBIoIqII8cY9nG55HYHgvt3niQCVAgUBLMs3K ui6XaCZmKH68fOWYYySKAzPkXyfYKnOlzsIjp2tPEot1Q5A3/n54PBKrUDN9tHVz 3Ch466q9EKUuDulTU6OLsilzmRvQJn0EJhzd4pht6hSnC1R3seYNhUYhoJViCcCG sRjLQs4iVVM= =9wqs -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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A real flamewar...
by Mike Ingle 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

If you think the Detweiler thread is bad...take a look at "IRC: Who's harassing who?" on alt.best.of.internet, among several other groups. There's over 200K of an absolutely hilarious netwar there, which began as an argument on IRC and ended up with death threats, threats of lawsuits, mail to sysadmins...

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