December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: We are ALL guests (except Eric)
by Blanc Weber 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: Eric Hughes These discussions on the interest of power are fascinating to me. So many of them do not take into account my own desires to create a useful discussion forum, which desires bind me tighter than any law ever could. There are some very interesting implications of this _de facto_ solipsism to achievement of equilibria in games with iterated dominance. ......................................................................... Eric is so cool for starting a flame war about his authority, on his very semi-own list. Turn-around is fair play, do unto others, and all that. For myself, I list below some items of importance which I would look for in deciding whether to participate with expectations of complicity to any given 'rules': . advance knowledge of the requirements & procedures . whether they are consistent with the purpose they serve . whether there has been an intelligent argument presented which would convince me that it is more advantageous to do as expected, than not . that there have been means provided to be able to follow through, or that . there has been information provided on how to obtain the means needed for follow through . that information is available on how to overcome the obstacles & difficulties which could prevent adherence to the given requirements i.e., that those who place certain requirements upon membership also make it possible to comply with them by preparing the way, making it easy to do so and providing sufficient appeal to make it worth the trouble. Blanc

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New signing service
by cactus＠bb.hks.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Okay, this is a-what *I* am going to do right now. Today, I'll throw together a mechanism on cypherpunks(a)hks.net that will sign all messages coming through it and send them on to cypherpunks(a)toad.com. It'll have a key with a 384-bit modulus, included below. It will not (now) check signatures on incoming mail. It might in the future. To be clear, this is not what I suggested before: I will not be generating a new key for each message. This is also not a service that guarantees the integrity of mail before it reaches here: mail can easily be forged to this site. This will guarantee one and only one thing: that a message signed by this service has been received by cypherpunks(a)hks.net and forwarded to cypherpunks(a)toad.com. The only thing that this prevents is having mail forged to a subset of cypherpunks appear as though it went to all of cypherpunks. If this is successful I can later go on to attack the signing question, though I think key management is likely to be a genuine pain in the ass for that, probably requiring human interaction on a per-key basis. Also, when the software works smoothly it could be moved to toad.com. I think part of the job of mailing list software is to guarantee the integrity of the envelope a message: signing all messages is a clear step towards that goal. Please send comments to me directly at cactus(a)hks.net, since I won't necessarily be catching up on cypherpunks while I'm working on this. -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQA9Ay7eB60AAAEBgOGkDzo6mkSp3G4W3EXwMWK8SrTVSmosuN5Y7Z2FdBS5uJ3o 1O0XNAwqGc8CJ9W3bQAFEbQuQ3lwaGVycHVuayBzaWduaW5nIGFnZW50IDxjeXBo ZXJwdW5rc0Boa3MubmV0Pg== =ajZM -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- -- Todd Masco | "Roam home to a dome, Where Georgian and Gothic once stood cactus(a)hks.net | Now chemical bonds alone guard our blond(e)s, cactus(a)bb.com | And even the plumbing looks good." - B Fuller

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Phbbbbbbbbt!
by merriman＠metronet.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

***************** Begin PKP Signed Message ***************** Version 3.14159 A Proposal That It Be Resolved: * That Eric can, and will, do as he sees fit with the Cypherpunks mailing list on toad.com. * That Eric can, and will, do whatever he's going to do, whenever he does it. * That many have made their positions clear - amply, and repeatedly - on what they think of the various proposals put forth in response to Eric's initial posting, the clarifications, the clarified clarifications, the counter-proposals, counter-counter-proposals, ad nauseum. * That if/when Eric does something that those on the Cypherpunks mailing list do/don't agree with (or otherwise find inconvenient, distasteful, awkward, reprehensible, foolish, appropriate, called-for, suitable, necessary, ad nauseum), they will respond as they feel appropriate. * That responses to any actions taken by Eric may include letters of support/condemnation, forged/faked information, leaving in a snit/huff/quietly/loudly, formation of a C1Ph3rD00Dz mailing list, ranting, raving, cheering, applause, or whatever else the individual may feel appropriate. * That Eric has had ample opportunity to see the response to his proposal, and will therefore take it into consideration as he feels appropriate. * That the subject will not be properly addressed and resolved until and unless some _definitive_ action occurs. * That until and unless such action occurs, anything else is so much flailing about madly, with a fair measure of High Blood Pressure and Hurt Feelings tossed in. * That the subject has now been flogged to death, and that further discourse on it only serves to fragment the CP mailing list. Respectfully Submitted Dave Merriman ***************** Begin PKP Signature ***************** 1 ******************************************************* ****************** End PKP Signed Message ****************** - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Finger merriman(a)feenix.metronet.com for PGP public key and fingerprint. PGP encrypted Email welcome, encouraged, and preferred. "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." John F. Kennedy

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Re: Mandatory sig workaround
by Blanc Weber 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: Eric Hughes My priorities on this are to get myself set up for signing. Then I need to get a recognizer written, then to hack vacation to use alternate database files, then to get my own personal resource list compiled, then to set my personal nagware. Only after all that do I intend to alter the list. ...................................................................... ........... Me too - I'll sign my posts when I'm good & ready. Blanc

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WHAT THE.. (was: Manditory key sig..
by Syed Yusuf 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

in all this discussion about how well it would work and ways around it, I think I've missed the problem that people are trying to solve. isn't it ironic that privacy advocates are suggesting manditory loss of anonimity (which is what forced signing is).

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Pbbbbbbbbbt!
by merriman＠metronet.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

***************** Begin PKP Signed Message ***************** Version 3.14159 A Proposal That It Be Resolved: * That Eric can, and will, do as he sees fit with the Cypherpunks mailing list on toad.com. * That Eric can, and will, do whatever he's going to do, whenever he does it. * That many have made their positions clear - amply, and repeatedly - on what they think of the various proposals put forth in response to Eric's initial posting, the clarifications, the clarified clarifications, the counter-proposals, counter-counter-proposals, ad nauseum. * That if/when Eric does something that those on the Cypherpunks mailing list do/don't agree with (or otherwise find inconvenient, distasteful, awkward, reprehensible, foolish, appropriate, called-for, suitable, necessary, ad nauseum), they will respond as they feel appropriate. * That responses to any actions taken by Eric may include letters of support/condemnation, forged/faked information, leaving in a snit/huff/quietly/loudly, formation of a C1Ph3rD00Dz mailing list, ranting, raving, cheering, applause, or whatever else the individual may feel appropriate. * That Eric has had ample opportunity to see the response to his proposal, and will therefore take it into consideration as he feels appropriate. * That the subject will not be properly addressed and resolved until and unless some _definitive_ action occurs. * That until and unless such action occurs, anything else is so much flailing about madly, with a fair measure of High Blood Pressure and Hurt Feelings tossed in. * That the subject has now been flogged to death, and that further discourse on it only serves to fragment the CP mailing list. Respectfully Submitted Dave Merriman ***************** Begin PKP Signature ***************** 1 ******************************************************* ****************** End PKP Signed Message ****************** - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Finger merriman(a)feenix.metronet.com for PGP public key and fingerprint. PGP encrypted Email welcome, encouraged, and preferred. "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." John F. Kennedy

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apologies
by merriman＠metronet.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

My apologies for the second posting of my Proposal - the first one came back from toad at the end of a notice that an individuals account was closed (??). Dave Merriman - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Finger merriman(a)feenix.metronet.com for PGP public key and fingerprint. PGP encrypted Email welcome, encouraged, and preferred. "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." John F. Kennedy

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Free Money Making Software!
by megamoneymakers＠mail-response.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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WHAT THE.. (was: Manditory key sig..
by N. Cognito 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Thu, 1 Dec 1994 09:32:20 -0700 (PDT), Syed Yusuf wrote: >in all this discussion about how well it would work and ways around it, >I think I've missed the problem that people are trying to solve. > >isn't it ironic that privacy advocates are suggesting manditory >loss of anonimity (which is what forced signing is). Such is certainly not the case for everyone. I don't see that I lose any anonymity by signing MY messages. I regard it for the most part as a necessary evil inherent in maintaining a stable, reputable pseudonymous persona. I sign everything I mail or post so that eventually individuals who've become familiar with this identity will suspect a spoof if they see something to which my nym is attached but not my digital signature. To be frank, it's something of a chore for me to sign everything. I do it because there's a good reason for me to do so. N. Cognito =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= N. Cognito "Don't put no constrictions on da people. an234(a)vox.xs4all.nl Leave 'em ta hell alone." -- J. Durante =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= public key available via keyserver -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBLt4hx6L3ipYu3mvVAQGaYwQAg/cKHs4RKYEQ1tx5YDQrGUeIeXSe2G+t xJCh1vKzVYB6VjwVH2MrwyfJXtvXvdVbco2X6xx2KJxpwY1r1WRgYSOsbtehMleg 24a1ukcycYe+lgNn62PEEbxw9zGbL4unHaWLkiFkyzPknSlZSNfBBsQpp11UGmnG FCVg3SidPlE= =gg74 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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C-punx Corallary (sp?)
by cjl 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

If a thread on the C-punx list lasts long enough, the initials L.D. appear shortly before the invocation of the N*zis, usually posted by L.D. himself -) (blind lemon smiley) C. J. Leonard ( / "DNA is groovy" \ / - Watson & Crick <cjl(a)welchlink.welch.jhu.edu> / \ <-- major groove ( \ Finger for public key \ ) Strong-arm for secret key / <-- minor groove Thumb-screws for pass-phrase / )

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