December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Card Playing Protocol?
by Ben.Goren＠asu.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Just so people know: complete protocols for poker can be found in Schneier. All you need is a snazzy GUI. And, with ecash, you can even do all your betting. Nice idea! b& -- Ben.Goren(a)asu.edu, Arizona State University School of Music net.proselytizing (write for info): Protect your privacy; oppose Clipper. Voice concern over proposed Internet pricing schemes. Stamp out spamming. Finger ben(a)tux.music.asu.edu for PGP 2.3a public key.

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Detweiler Abuse Again...
by Matthew Ghio 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

It seems our old friend is up to his stupid tricks again. After his drivel began appearing on various newsgroups, I stated logging messages, and found this... >From vkj(a)netcom.com Fri Jul 15 11:20:35 1994 >Received: from TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (tigger.StCloud.MSUS.EDU [134.29.33.14]) >by kaiwan.kaiwan.com (8.6.9/8.6.5) with SMTP > id LAA12671 for <ghio(a)kaiwan.com>; Fri, 15 Jul 1994 11:20:34 -0700 > *** KAIWAN Internet Access *** >Date: Fri, 15 Jul 1994 11:20:34 -0700 >From: vkj(a)netcom.com >Message-Id: <199407151820.LAA12671(a)kaiwan.kaiwan.com> >Received: from <netcom6.netcom.com> (netcom4.netcom.com) by > TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (MX V4.1 VAX) with SMTP; Fri, 15 Jul 1994 > 13:22:01 CST >To: ghio(a)kaiwan.com >Errors-To: /dev/null >Request-Remailing-To: mail2news(a)demon.co.uk > >## >Subject: ATTENTION: OPERATION `BIG COLLISION' WILL COMMENCE SHORTLY >Organization: CRAM >Newsgroups: alt.current.net-abuse,news.misc,news.admin.policy,alt.politics.datahighway,alt.culture.usenet,alt.culture.internet,alt.censorship,talk.politics.crypto > > >To Whom It May Concern: > >We will shortly be commencing operation Big Collision. During this period you >may experience minor fluctuations and disturbances in multitudinous channels >over the cyberspatial continuum. This will be the first of our larger scale >meme construction, fabrication, and penetration projects. > >We assure you that these operations will help maximize overall communications >efficiency in the Matrix and invigorate and energize the advancement of >unhindered meme propagation within the lower-vibratory realms, as well as to >relieve some tensions by combatting recent degradory eruptions. Emphasis and >urgency will be focused on the most drained and threatened areas. > >Please exercise the utmost caution in your personal meme possession and >conveyance during this period of transition. We apologize in advance for any >inconvenience this may cause. > > \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ | / / / / / / / / / / > _______ ________ _____ _____ _____ > /// \\\ ||| \\\ /// \\\ |||\\\///||| > ||| ~~ ||| /// ||| ||| ||| \\// ||| > ||| __ |||~~~\\\ |||~~~||| ||| ~~ ||| > \\\ /// ||| \\\ ||| ||| ||| ||| > ~~~~~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ > / / / / / / / / / | \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ > >C y b e r s p a t i a l R e a l i t y A d v a n c e m e n t M o v e m e n t Looks like he figured out how to use port 25... And look who wasn't logged in... > % finger vkj(a)netcom.com > [netcom.com] > > V K Jayakumar (vkj) > Home: /u4/vkj > Shell: /bin/csh > No unread mail. > V K Jayakumar (vkj) is not presently logged in. > Last seen at netcom8 on Thu Jul 14 22:09:39 1994 > > > No plan. And detweiler... > % finger tmp(a)netcom.com > [netcom.com] > > (tmp) > Home: /u3/tmp > Shell: /bin/csh > No unread mail. > Last login on ttypc from NETCOM-den2.netc, on Thu Jun 30 17:40:37 1994 > > No plan. Has he really been logged in for 15 days? Please CC me in any responses, as I haven't had much time to keep up with the cypherpunks list lately... :(

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Re: Card Playing Protocol?
by kentborg＠world.std.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

jamiel(a)sybase.com wrote: >What about implementing a Multiplayer Game Protocol? Cool, but only to the extent it falls out nearly for free, being too general is an enemy of actually getting results. Besides, it seems a better application of any urges to be general would be to work with *any* transport medium from an alt.games.moves to IRC to email (AOL, Compuserve, etc., in addition to Unix mail) to TCP/IP to pagers. So let's tag things and leave room for expansion with new tags, but let's build one thing first. Don't get me wrong, I would love for it to be general--like become the basis for general purpose transactions--but the very fact that that occurs to me warns me that it is best to make version 1.0 first, and then 2.0, etc. Plus, being general about allowing new tags will certainly tweak the ITAR police. Ben.Goren(a)asu.edu wrote: >Just so people know: complete protocols for poker can be found in >Schneier. All you need is a snazzy GUI. Do you *really* think I would propose such a thing without a handy place to crib from? Some people! Hell, I might have to write some code here, and I'm lazy. Oh, it would be nice to be bit more general than just poker. Just a deck of cards, places to put them, the ability to reshuffle and rearrange stacks on the table, play cards from your hand, etc. The enforcement of plays is through the same technique as with a real deck: other players are watching. The cryptographic aspects are the interesting ones, not implementing any particular game. Besides, I'm lazy, remember. Ben.Goren(a)asu.edu also wrote: >And, with ecash, you can even do all your betting. Noooooo! This is a political move. It should be nothing more wicked than a deck of cards. (To some people that is bad enough. Maybe there would be a Rook option...) Just a deck of 52-cards (and how many for Rook?) and a table on which to play. And that worries me. What are the fundamental operations with cards? Can everything be modeled as different stacks on the table? Some have special privilages: I can see my hand, you can't; the top n-cards of some stacks are visible to everyone; some stacks are visible to all (playing a trick). Any player can manipulate any card--though if you grab one from my hand I might get upset, every player will see the manipulation. Some cards are face up (or once were), some are face down (shuffled with the whole deck or a subset). Interesting realization: there is a set of card tricks which can be performed in this environment and a set which cannot. I suppose there would then be a set of magicians who are willing to perform with this deck and a set who will not. (And how many will use magic tricks as proof of having factored RSA-XXX?) Where to put the information about face down cards: To make slow interactions possible, is there a way every player can have all information--but can be challanged that cards have not been peeked at? And how to keep you from checking my hand in poker after I--maybe--bluffed you into folding. Hmm, there is a tension here. Looks like I need to carefully read pages 78-81. -kb, the Kent who is practicing looking innocent and saying things like "Who me?? MUNITIONS??? All I wanted to do was to play gin rummy. With my mom in Minnesota." -- Kent Borg +1 (617) 776-6899 kentborg(a)world.std.com kentborg(a)aol.com Proud to claim 32:00 hours of TV viewing so far in 1994!

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ACAPULCO H.E.A.T.
by Sandy Sandfort 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SANDY SANDFORT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C'punks, Today's episode of "Acapulco H.E.A.T." was a treasure trove of privacy and technology issues. The story was about a renegade biologist who had "supplied both sides with biological weapons in the Iran-Iraq war." It seems he's now living in South America where he owns a casino and--in his spare time--is using genetic engineering to create an army of super-soldiers. The only example we see, though, is a steroidal acromegalic who looks like a young Arnold (he has some sort of European accent, too). H.E.A.T. "hack" the casino's computers to give themselves a million dollar line of credit. In the meantime, they use a homing device they plant on the bad guys van, they find his secret jungle lab where they plant a microcam to spy on the bad guy's genetic operation. Through the use of a room bug the *fire* into an exterior wall with a rifle, they learn that the bad guy and an accomplice use marked cards, which can be read with special contact lenses, to cheat at chemin de fer. Using a special hand-held electronic lock pick, our heroes defeat a card-key hotel lock and break into the room in which the marked cards are kept. There, they substitute their own marked deck. After that, a fortune gets won, things get blown up, machine-guns are fired, truth and justice prevail. The usual. While this episode had no bikinis, it also had no Fabio. As they say in Blackjack, it was a "push." S a n d y P.S. There was no "Acapulco H.E.A.T." report last week. Fabio was in that episode, and he tried to act. I was too bilious to write. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Re: Leaving the Country
by frissell＠panix.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 03:50 PM 7/15/94 -0500, Benjamin McLemore wrote: > >*New Hampshire--alcohol sales (state run liquor stores), anything else? >*Alaska--lots of oil. All the New England States including Taxachussets have State Liquor Stores. NH has the cheapest booze of the lot and even entreprenurially advertizes to encourage the residents of other states to save money at their stores. Actually lots of states had no sales and income taxes when I was born and yet life somehow went on. People may have even been happier (or more satisfied). DCF "Sunday is the 200th anniversary of the Whiskey Rebellion. Our last chance to avoid a strong federal system. Have a rye whiskey in memorium."

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Re: ID card from hell
by frissell＠panix.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 02:04 PM 7/15/94 PDT, Blanc Weber wrote: >First they nationalize your possessions, then your mind: but it can >also be done the other way: while everyone is freely engaging in >commercial transactions across national boundaries, in the background >everyone is being corralled into a national identity scheme >the connection to the Holy Leadership is always maintained, like a >tether - you always know, psychologically, to whom you are attached >and to whom therefore, you must surrender your money, your time, your >identity card........ The advantage of expatriation. If you are in a country other than that of your birth there is less of a psychological burden. The government is just another thing to deal with. No magic associations from childhood. This is particularly true if you move around. Dual nationality helps too. You can buy same for <$25K from various Carribean nations. DCF "Anyone with at least one grandparent (living or dead) born in Ireland (including Northern Ireland) is an Irish citizen. All you need do is apply for a passport."

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Re: Triple encryption...
by DAVESPARKS＠delphi.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Adam Shostack <adam(a)bwh.harvard.edu> wrote: > While the IDEA in th middle might slow down a meet in the > middle attack on 2DES, I don't know that you're justified in claiming > 112 bits of DES key space without something like: > > des|des|IDEA|des If IDEA can be *TRIVIALLY* broken, and assuming the availability of the massive amounts of memory needed to store all of the data required for a MITM attack, then you're technically correct. But, even granting that possibility for the time being, you still have the equivalent of 57 bits of DES keyspace, which is better than totally relying on 3DEA. While a "super DES breaker" machine has been hypothesized, and a cost to build it estimated, I don't recall anyone doing so for a "MITM DES breaker" which would require incredible amounts of memory. At a minimum, it would require not only *TWO* super-DES-crackers, but a very sophistocated machine to gather the blocks generated by all of the various parallel processors comprising the other two machines, store, and continually compare them, searching for matches. IMHO, that "middle" machine would be far more complex and expensive than the other two. A MITM attack might, theoretically, take only twice as long as attacking a single layer, the cost of doing so would be much more than twice as large. Anyone care to estimate what the cost of the RAM alone for the "MITM interface" machine would be? Let's see, for two 56 bit beys, you'd need storage for 2^57 blocks of 8 bytes each, or 2^60 bytes. At $40 per Mb, or so, that would come to ... let's see ... $4 * 10^51 for memory alone. And once the list of blocks started growing as the attack progressed, could the interface processor keep up with the other two, in real time? Massively parallel processors might speed both ends of the attack, but the "database comparison phase" would be the real bottleneck, IMHO. /--------------+------------------------------------\ | | Internet: davesparks(a)delphi.com | | Dave Sparks | Fidonet: Dave Sparks @ 1:207/212 | | | BBS: (909) 353-9821 - 14.4K | \--------------+------------------------------------/

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Re: Leaving the Country
by wcs＠anchor.ho.att.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tim writes: > I say "popularization" instead of coinage, because Goldwater use a > variant ("There isn't...") in his 1964 campaign, reportedly written by > one of his speech writers, Karl Hess. (The same Karl Hess who is > involved in libertarian matters.) _was_ involved, I'm afraid. Karl's heart disease caught up with him this spring. He'll be long remembered. Bill # Bill Stewart AT&T Global Information Solutions (new name for NCR!) # 6870 Koll Center Pkwy, Pleasanton CA 94566 1-510-484-6204 fax-6399 # Email: bill.stewart(a)pleasantonca.ncr.com billstewart(a)attmail.com # ViaCrypt PGP Key IDs 384/C2AFCD 1024/9D6465 KH: "A good friend, good lover, good neighbor" Q: "That's all there is to being an anarchist?" KH: "What did you expect, a lot of rules?" Karl Hess, 1923-1994 - R.I.P.

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Re: National I.D. Cards
by wcs＠anchor.ho.att.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Brian writes: > It would seem we are missing a point about having National I.D. > cards. The rest of the world seems ready to rush in and adopt some > form of "Clipper" chips to monitor their own citizens. (There doing > it in the U.S.!) Do we really doubt they will adopt "The Card" as > well? (don't leave home without it!) > > Step 2: International I.D. Cards...... > > Can you say "New World Order?" Sure you can....... Various other people write: > But what about the tourists? But we've had *international* ones for years. Passports. Go visit Morocco, or Egypt, or other places with heavy-duty bureaucracies, especially *French* bureaucracies, and you'll find you need to show your passport or National ID Card to stay in a hotel or change money; some of those places even have the beginnings of computer infrastructure to let them coordinAte that information. Disgusting, but all too common. In Egypt, they stick paper stamps like postage stamps on all the paperwork to show you've paid the fees. We've escaped that stuff for a long time (not surprising, considering how upset some of our ancestors got about a 3% tax on tea...), but we could join the rest of the world just about the time they're giving it up....

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Detweiller
by Random H0Z3R 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

hello, I hope this isn't a stupid question (if it is, the anonymity protects me!!) ghio said that Detweiller must have forged that Big Collision message sent to his remailer, because the person it was attributed to hadn't logged in. I wonder if "rsh" shows up in that type of login?? maybe he "rsh"ed to the account to send from there?!?! and didn't log in to have a cover story?? btw, I haven't seen anything from Detweiller at tmp(a)netcom.com. I assume he still has the account?!?! maybe if someone calls netcom and complains they will do something?? i'm glad ghio caught that message in his mailbox through careful screening so that it wouldn't go out to the newsgroups. I always thought the remailers were automated, but I guess in most case the operators are screening all the stuff. this is good, because we don't need any more Detweiller junk out there (amazing how peaceful things are without him!!!) too bad if the message was forged, because it would be LOTS of fun to EXPOSE THE BASTARD!!! (insert evil smirk here) BTW, here is something I was wondering. on the Detweiller message he has an "errors-to: /dev/null" field. what does that do? why did he put that in there, anyway? i've never seen any documentation reference it. do the remailers handle it? "wondering"

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