December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Clipper and Congress
by pcw＠access.digex.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

><In mail Stanton McCandlish said:> > >> Unlike the Senate panel, there seemed to be some support for the Clipper >> proposal on the House Subcommittee. Rep. Dan Glickman (D-KS), > > I wonder if these Representatives (and Senators for that matter) would be > so supportive of Clipper if they were reminded that for it to be effective > even THEY would have to have the chip on THEIR HOME PHONES, THEIR OFFICE > PHONES, THEIR CELLULAR PHONES... > > I doubt many Congressional members are "clean" enough to support a chip > with such a threat over their lives. > > "Hey, Rep. Joe Smith, did you know that if someone wanted to make a few > dollars they could get the key from escrow and blackmail you about that > affair you've been having!?" > > Just a thought > Jim > At one of the earlier CSSPAB board meetings, a bunch of law enforcement officers came to speak about Clipper. They pointed out that 13 states do not allow their state and local police to use wiretaps. Some officers surmised that this was because wiretaps are really valuable in cases of bribery and corruption. I.e. where crimes can be committed through talking. >-- > Tantalus Inc. Jim Sewell Amateur Radio: KD4CKQ > P.O. Box 2310 Programmer Internet: jims(a)mpgn.com > Key West, FL 33045 C-Unix-PC Compu$erve: 71061,1027 > (305)293-8100 PGP via email on request. > 1K-bit Fingerprint: 8E 14 68 90 37 87 EF B3 C4 CF CD 9A 3E F9 4A 73

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Re: The Value of Money
by joshua geller 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> The idea is to create a unit of currency whose value is convenient for > typical transactions. Some amount that is easily grasped by the average > person. Originally the US dollar was 1/20th of an ounce of gold. That > amount of gold, today, has the buying power of US$18, or so. A bag of > groceries more or less. The amount of gold determines the total value of > the money supply, but the number of people and transactions in which it > must take part determines the number and denomination of bills and coins > to be printed and minted. in 1875 you could get a colt .45 for a $20 gold piece. you still can. I am sort of confused by all these folks talking about precious metals as if they still have something directly to do with currency. I thought they hadn't for some decades. josh

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Re: EFF Summary of May 3 1994 Clipper and Digital Telephony Hearings
by joshua geller 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> The Administration continues to maintain > that the market would accept the Clipper standard based on the > assumption that it is the strongest encryption scheme, regardless of who > holds the keys. but that is just an assumption if the algorithms are not available for study. > NSA's Clinton Brooks expressed support for Congressional Consideration > of the Clipper issue. He argued that Clipper is a sound technological > solution to a legitimate law enforcement and National Security dilemma, > and that a public debate on its merits would eventually remove the > misinformation and mistrust of government, and would prove Clipper to be > in the public interest. and 'a public debate on its merits' is difficult when details are secret. josh

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Re:The Value of Money
by rah＠TIAC.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

GRABOW_GEOFFREY(a)tandem.com asked: >Didn't Nixon take the U.S. off of the gold standard? > Sort of. The market made him do it. Any real bankers out there can answer this better than I can. The way I remember it, the Bretton Woods agreement made the "dollar as good as gold", which was intended to stabilize the postwar economy and back up the Marshall plan, I think. In the late '60s and early '70s, the european economy was good enough that people (Charles DeGaulle's government in France, among them) started to call the US Treasury's bluff, and cash in dollars for gold. I believe Nixon made two changes. First, he decoupled the dollar from the price of gold, thus making the dollar more explicitly a part of the floating exchange rate mechanism (or more so, anyway). Second, he started making it legal for americans to own gold again, something FDR outlawed during the depression. Moving it more towards crypto here. . . IMO, someday there *will* be a strictly digital, anonymous, liquid medium of exchange, a currency, simply because computer transmissions are just another means to transmit promises, like metal and paper. However, the next real step in that direction is to develop "securities" like money market instruments, which are denominated in an existing currency, but are "traded" not by institutions, but by people and/or business on the internet, in order to meet very real needs, like selling software, information, entertainment, etc. I guess that's why I subscribed to this list, and why I'm somewhere in the middle of the stream cypher section of Schneier's book. :-). Bob ----------------- Robert Hettinga "There is no difference between someone Shipwright Development Corporation eats too little and sees Heaven and 44 Farquhar Street someone who drinks too much and sees Boston, MA 02313 USA snakes." -- Bertrand Russell (617) 323-7923

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Re: Keyserver service outRAGE
by Tom Allard 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- gtoal(a)an-teallach.com (Graham Toal) sez: [...] > The restriction on what new keys they accept was part of the deal, but > stop and think what it really means - is it going to affect *anybody*? Yes, it will effect those not in the U.S. Or did you forget about them? > And what's to stop you fetching 2.5 and loading/re-dumping your old > key from that version? ITAR. [...] rgds-- TA (tallard(a)frb.gov) I don't speak for the Federal Reserve Board, they don't speak for me. pgp fingerprint: 10 49 F5 24 F1 D9 A7 D6 DE 14 25 C8 C0 E2 57 9D -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.3a iQCVAgUBLcjYyKAudFplx0TNAQH+cgP9EG7/jn0XdD1ZmCZTK4mk+VEjie13LXwH V927mWRLLgSu11Tj+6SsdNg9g9R2xIpXt47mMGetr3n6A6hB35UshaGAxyMPNI4V bBetgRTZUx2wzKbd2V3Gyi8hxw6Kf64FuCZnUZNe5Ds6Jg2w8Do8a4AYCbV5Ua/M 1s/MtSUY9Dk= =1vax -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re:The Value of Money
by trestrab＠GVSU.EDU 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Robert Hettinga writes: > GRABOW_GEOFFREY(a)tandem.com asked: > >>Didn't Nixon take the U.S. off of the gold standard? >> >I believe Nixon made two changes. First, he decoupled the dollar from >the price of gold, thus making the dollar more explicitly a >part of the floating exchange rate mechanism (or more so, >anyway). Second, he started making it legal for americans >to own gold again, something FDR outlawed during the >depression. The US$ was devalued from $35 to $38 /oz gold and the Treasury stopped redeeming dollars from anyone other than central banks in '69. This created a two tier market. The US devalued again in '70 (0r '71) to $45 /oz, and then threw in the towel and stopped backing the currency with anything other than "the full faith and credit of the US government" [:)]. US citizens were permitted to own gold bullion again as of Jan '75, under Ford. Jeff trestrab(a)gvsu.edu

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re: one time pad plus
by Brian D Williams 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Ben replies; >Ok, I'm new to this crypto bit so I probably will have more >mistakes here than correct answers. Anyways I'm going to give a >shot. >1)If you have the secure channel(sneakernet) that you have to >re-init each time you use th eone time pad, then this will be most >likely a novelty, since Lousie could have slipped Thelma the >plaintext when she slipped her the pad. >2)If you're using a pad like this, if I'm not mistaken isn't this >what Kahn calls a 'book cipher' where it would be simpler to crack >than a true one time pad that is truly random. >3)Thelma could have used stenographic technology to send the same >information, she could have used faxes that when decoded could >yield a message(kinda like the old punch cards) >Anyways, this is just the view of a complete rank amateur. Give >me feedback y'all. Thanks for your comments Ben. Yes this does suffer from all the same problems of a classic one time pad. (pad exchange etc) Obviously Thelma and Louise should have exchanged mutiple pads well in advance,(and are co-conspirators) and the "pseudorandom pad" E would be exchanged through an alternate path (intercompany mail,sneakernet,messenger,etc). The part I find fun is that assuming random file B is truly random, say from an RS232 "crypto-dongle" (if anyone builds them, count me in!) then ciphertext file C is unbreakable, It dosen't matter if E is random or not, C is still unbreakable, and using E to decrypt will only produce D. This was not intended as a cure all, just an interesting application of cryptography that has interesting effects in the world of corporate politics as well. One small step for cypherpunks..... Brian Williams Extropian Cypherpatriot "Cryptocosmology: Sufficently advanced comunication is indistinguishable from noise." --Steve Witham "Have you ever had your phones tapped by the government? YOU WILL and the company that'll bring it to you.... AT&T" --James Speth -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.3a iQCVAgUBLckIjNCcBnAsu2t1AQEubAP7B3t3cIiUkZXESOA53OMcXbpdLnu7qZXf Z+Q7tFC9kzYL9+weGXHVC2aEnjsjDUbxEYHgz4vw+T9fBdFr2g2RcQqM36+dKee+ BfuOtwKY4UCKtjw8W/BETaUpK2aNjeO2pXBdrzVpZHXu6xyM2n2QFmm4GiUDYPO9 xdzq0JcVH4U= =oPn1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Anonymous phone calls.
by dmandl＠lehman.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: Duncan Frissell <frissell(a)panix.com> > "Why did William Jefferson Blythe Clinton accept a Rhodes scholarship when > women (and non Commonwealth citizens) were excluded from same? Sounds like a > racist, sexist, bigoted, and (for all we know) homophobic act to me." Current theory here in Brooklyn: Freemasonic/Trilateral/Illuminati connections (you know about Cecil Rhodes, right?). Looks like Willy was groomed for his present assignment from an early age. This is as good a time as any to post the following, which is not much less relevant to cypherpunk issues than a lot of other recent threads. And it's hilarious. As mentioned above, though, our current theory is slightly different. Enjoy. --Dave. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Impeach Clinton --------------- by Rev. P. Lamborn-Wilson, M.O.C., U.L.C., etc., etc., The Deanery, Chatsworth, NJ Feb. 14, 1994 (no copyright--please reproduce freely) Clinton first came to the attention of the ILLUMINATI when he saved the asses of Grand Master Oliver North & Past Master G. Bush (the Freemasonic Messiah) by quashing the investigation into Mena Airport in Arkansas. We can use this cracker, they thought. Another Southern Democrat whose name starts with "C." The Konspiracy may have to lay low for four years & this yuppie redneck'll fill the Bill. Sure enough, Bush loses it--bigtime--openly proclaims the Novus Ordo Seclorum--bombs Babylon in a vain attempt to destroy Illuminati archives--etc., etc. The CFR/Bilderbergers declare:--Bush must "lose." The Pres. of Japan (an inner-circle member) dons his special Medici-ring & sits next to Bush at sushi-time:--the whole world gawks as Bush pukes in the lap of this unsmiling samurai--Who's losing face? Who's losing _lunch_? ///// Lloyd Bensen (32-degree) takes hick Clinton to Bilderberg Konklave in Baden-Baden 6 months before the "election." Ushered into the inner sanctum Clinton hears the Offer from a hooded figure mit a Cherman accent und Harvard manners. "Look, Bill, all zis can be yours: real estate, blow-chobs, Sviss bank account, revenche, your name in 'History.' All you haff to do is serve Us for four years. Betray 'Liberalism' for four years. Stab in the back all those minorities who will vote you in:--Blacks, queers, women, the poor. Always you vill say 'compromise'--but holding a dagger in your schleeve. Betray Haiti. Betray homosexuals (and alienate the military!), betray Christians & burn their children, betray peace-lovers--bomb Iraq _again_! (we'll think of some lame excuse); betray women--transform them into their own oppressors. As for the poor, I have a great plan, Bill:--you will fund poverty programs by _taxing food stamps_. Hilarious, eh? Environmentalists? Talk green, dump chemicals in the wetlands. We will spread rumors about your use of 'pot,' Bill, so all the drug-fiends will vote for you--then we'll _intensify_ the 'War on Drugs.' You see? Beautiful concept, _nein_? In four years they will _beg_ us to return to power. The 'Liberals' themselves will vote for Quayle & Noriega in '96! Ha ha ha! Und zen, ve shall enchoy anuzzer tvelf years of Undiluted Power! Perhaps a war in Mexico? Hmm, let me think. Here, Bill, here's a million dollars for your 'election' campaign fund--that's just for starters, Bill. Now, sit here on this throne while this naked starlet sucks your crank, Bill. Promise them anything! I know! I've got it! Promise them _health-care_. Outlaw all herbs, vitamins, everything like that--we can't allow the unwashed swine to prescribe for themselves, can we now? Tsk tsk dear me no. Promise them health-care--& then raise their taxes! Give them SHIT, Bill. Eh? How do you like it? That wife of yours (sorry, Bill)--she can pose as an angel of mercy ... while you--tinpot JFK--pure simulation--first 'virtual' president--bumble toward Armageddon like some sinister clown. Power--the great aphrodisiac, eh Governor? Or should I say ... _Mr. President_???"

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Re: The Value of Money
by f_griffith＠ccsvax.sfasu.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>>Unless of course you have a $ bill that is a specie note. I have a few ten >>dollar bills that state that they are redeemable for specie. > >You'll have much better luck taking them to a numismatist than to Fort >Knox. Specie notes are, to the best of my knowledge, no longer redeemable >in specie. > >-- >Lefty (lefty(a)apple.com) >C:.M:.C:., D:.O:.D:. Right! All redemption promises were repudiated. Gold in 1933, silver somewhat later.

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Re: Lobbying/Politics/etc.
by wcs＠anchor.ho.att.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> I suspect serious problems implenmenting a law that criminalizes crypto It wouldn't be that hard to get rid of lots of it, as long as they made exceptions to let the big corporate customers stay happy (e.g. banks). The key would be using the civil forfeiture abuse to let them confiscate computers that *appear* to be using illegal crypto; you can hire a lawyer to help you get your box back if they suspect it's got UnAmerican Software. Your goverment crypto license will let you use Clipper if you obey the rules; just think of it as your driver's license on the information superhighway.... The Feds could enforce the 55mph speed limits better if they used confiscation as well. Drowning in bad metaphors, .... Bill

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