December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

RMorality and Ethics (was Pseudonym's and Reputation)
by Jeff Davis 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: Blanc Weber <blancw(a)microsoft.com> To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Subject: Re: Pseudonyms and Reputations Quoting Detwieler(?) " ideally we can develop moral codes where our algorithms fail us. " >Ideally, you would be able to enforce these moral codes. >Ideally, they would reflect not only what is possible in reality, but >what is truly desireable. --------- McCandlish and I discussed morality and ethics early during our initial "handshake". Stanton said there is no morality, only ethics- what do you think? (substantial paraphrase I think serves the purpose of discussion) Here's my reply, and agree that the difference is semantic: *** Morality is the ablility to differentiate between right and wrong, without denotation. Thus, each situation defines an eidetic decision and implementation which would be the application of an ethical standard based on past experience. Therefore, endogenous morality is quite tangible, while exogenous morality is most likely unethical, and detrimental to the purity of being. *** Jeff Leroy Davis <eagle> -- PGP PUBLIC KEY via finger! JAFEFFM Speaking & Thinking For Myself! * eagle(a)deeptht.armory.com email info(a)eff.org * *** O U T L A W S On The E L E C T R O N I C F R O N T I E R **** ***** Committed to Free Public Internet Access for World Peace *****

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NSA security manual
by Jeff Davis 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Well Grady, You already know it's authentic. I'd love to call some of those secure phone #'s and see if my voice print still works. It would be a scream if it did >;) If any of you have tried one of the secure numbers out of curiosity, (and I've been out of the loop since 18 February 1983), you'll get a ring and a pause, then a rapid busy signal. This also lends credibility to my Psychological Warfare Primer, albeit subtely. I stated that the heavyweights in intelligence were the DIA, NSA, and the CIA, in that order. If *green* clearances are mere TS/IS, the DIA feeds them as well on a need-to-know basis. My analysis of the NSA mission is cryptography, (thanks for the hot tip, eh?), and interception. When AT&T broke up, it became possible to intercept transmissions that were previously protected by the monopoly. NSA is privy to all sorts of stuff, open long distance phone calls they can snag off the satellites without a warrent. They're pretty much public domain if one has the technology. Another thing I noticed was the Drug Policy. You note that they leave "authorized" drug use open. Amphetimines are SOP in some combat and combat simulation exercises. Christ, you want to laugh til tears roll down your cheeks, read the FOIA stuff released on the CIA's human experimentation with LSD. True keystone cop stuff. John Barlow and I were drinking some cokes and shooting the breeze here in Laramie a little over a year ago. He predicted an "opening" of the intelligence agencies after Clinton was elected- (This was the second to last weekend in October to be precise). NOW I see what he means. Thanks Grady! So THAT'S what the DoD pogues do. Can't wait to see a Field Manual for DIA intelligence officers. -- PGP PUBLIC KEY via finger! JAFEFFM Speaking & Thinking For Myself! * eagle(a)deeptht.armory.com email info(a)eff.org * *** O U T L A W S On The E L E C T R O N I C F R O N T I E R **** ***** Committed to Free Public Internet Access for World Peace *****

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Re: possible FTP site volunteer?
by Tomaz Borstnar 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In-reply-to: Your message dated: Fri, 08 Apr 1994 01:33:56 EDT > This may be a lot to ask, would anyone be willing to volunteer a little > space on an ftp site for the 1984 NSA t-shirt gifs? While its easy for Me, me, me! :) > me to mail it out. You'd get a complimentary shirt out of the deal :) Great! ;) I'm taking care of ftp.arnes.si.

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No Subject
by anonymous＠extropia.wimsey.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Subject: NSA Security Manual You realize, of course, that by posting the manual verbatim you have allowed them to discover where the leak was. They have the ability to change the wording slightly on every document, so that when you quote the document they can discover who gave it to you. That is why newspapers no longer report quotes from documents that they have, or never show pictures of secret documents. Then again, for something as simple as a manual, they may not bother to change each one. But the capability exists. user(a)host.domain.site

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Re: NSA Security Manual
by Graham Toal 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The information itself is not damning but law enforcement tends to frown on the CONCEPT of such releases. If it were seeded, Grady never would have been called. What I found interesting was that it was published in Phrack about a week ago, and nothing happened, but when Grady reposted it, suddenly phone-calls come aflying. Either this means that the NSA read Grady's posts more diligently than everyone else's, or Grady went out of his way to tell them that he'd posted it, which wouldn't surprise me... G

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request
by satan 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

satan(a)ccwf.cc.utexas.edu request for mailing list

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disposable cash VISA
by cort 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

... along the lines of anonymous cash (and contrary to the AntiCash!) ... What does it take to _issue_ bank cards? Can any bank or credit union issue bank cards? What does it take to get the VISA or MasterCard name? It _seems_ that it should be so simple to set up anonymous credit cards. Here is one simple scenario: Mr. Credit Union gets VISA's approval to issue "secure" (prepaid) VISA cards. Mr. Credit Union has a _good_ reputation, and this reputation is important to his business. Mr. Credit Union sets up 1000 accounts with $500 in each account. A bank card is associated with each account. The name on the front of the card is something like "Joe Cash". Miss Customer walks into Mr. Credit Union's place of business and buys one of these cards for cash (the green, paper kind). She chooses one from a fish bowl full of them (ensuring a random acct #). The card would cost something like $505. No exchange of names, no SS #s, no credit checks. Miss Customer uses the card like any other VISA. When the $500 is gone, she "discards". It would be easy for Mr. Credit Union to cheat. Therefore, the reputation is important. Why not? Why can't _I_ sell these sorts of credit cards? Does this truly provide additional privacy? Cort.

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Re: tmp@netcom.com
by Hal 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> Mr. TMP: > > You can easily settle this by attending or meeting with a CP in your area > who can sign your public key based on your Drivers License etc. > > While it might not be fair, it would put an end to the debate... Another way would be for people to get a *blind* signature from someone else saying "I am not Detweiler" (if that is all people care about). Sup- pose some nym were able to exhibit such a signature from a respected list member, ideally one who has given out a great many such signatures. No one would be able to link the nym to his True Name; all anyone would know is that at one time the True Name corresponding to this nym received a blinded signature making this assertion. This allows a nym to keep his anonymity while still responding to accusations like these, if he wishes. Hal

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Re: Pseudonyms and Reputations
by Hal 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: greg(a)ideath.goldenbear.com (Greg Broiles) > Hal Finney writes: > > > The simple blinded signature model provides a pretty simple way to allow > > only one pseudonym per True Name in a given forum, if you assume there is > > some way to distinguish people in the real world. > [...] > Real-world application of this protocol still depends on folks not > using the credentials of friends/family/dead people, especially where > "real name" <-> credential mapping isn't available. This is true, but the main purpose of this technology is to prevent users from creating large numbers of pseudonymous accounts. No technology can stop people from cooperating in an on-line forum, and the use of friends' or family members' accounts is also very hard to prevent. So collusion at some limited level will always be possible. But at least it should be possible to prevent the massive use of nyms. Hal

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Re: Pseudonyms and Reputations
by Hal 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

A (semi) real-world application of the is-a-person technology was suggested to me a year ago by someone whom I think is now a list member. To protect his privacy I will change the story slightly. He wanted to set up an online game which would be ongoing for some time, and which new people could join periodically. New members would be given a certain amount of resources (fuel, money, etc.) to start with, and then they would compete with others in the game to try to get more. At any given time standings would be available to show who had done the best in terms of getting the most resources. The problem was that based on the rules of the game it was hard to prevent people from colluding to transfer resources among themselves. This would allow someone who was doing poorly to create a bunch of pseudonymous accounts, enter them in the game as new users, and then to transfer their initial resources to his main account. The result would be that the standings would reflect skill at creating pseudonyms more than the abilities which the game was supposed to test. He asked whether there would be some way to ensure that only one account per person was playing the game. Basically, he was asking for an "is-a-person" credential. One solution would simply be to get a name, address, and phone number from each participant, but he didn't want to violate his players' privacy to that extent. Without an infrastructure supporting this kind of credential, he decided not to go ahead with his plans for the game. This is too bad because the game was actually going to test some very interesting economic and political theories and it would have been good to see it in action. Hal

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