December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: your mail Re: on anonymity, identity, reputation, and spoofing
by owen＠autodesk.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> From: m5(a)vail.tivoli.com (Mike McNally) > D. Owen Rowley writes: > > Personally I think that accountability is going to be required as the > > price for reasonably secure encryption, reasonably open access, and > > reasonably secure privacy of data. IMNSHO, it is unreasonable to > > expect an anarcho-libertarian outcome to these issues. If you can > > prove me wrong I will be thrilled. > By whom is accountability going to be required? How will it (or how > can it) be implemented? What sort of mechanisms can be expected to > reliably and universally evolve in the decentralized anarchic network > we know today that will make "paying the price" a meaningful concept? > I con't prove you wrong because I cannot understand what you predict. The comercial use of internet is growing at a very fast rate, and it is predicted to overtake other uses in scope eventually. wide scale networks provide capabilitys which are very attractive to a variety of business enterprises. I suspect that a first pass will be made to try and use internet and the current suite of protocols and services as they are now. I also suspect that such attempts will flush out a whole raft of problems and deficiencies along with those who exploit such things. Hopefully new protocols and services can be developed which will minimise vulnerability and maximise protection for bussiness assets while allowing us as much freedom as possible. Nobody really knows what those things will be, and it is sorta problematic to make public laundrey lists of vulnerabilitys without some sort of idea how to deal with cleaning up the mess. We are going to have to learn by example. My main point though is that eventually business will find decentralised anarchic networks to be hostile territory, and will move on to less vulnerable, more reliable networks where user authentication, and accountable security are provided. It may be that there will be barriers between the anarchic networks and the business-place networks,that require users to provide proof of identity before they can pass. >>It seems to me that multimedia extensions have an *unfolding of the lotus >>like effect upon the issues involved. > Explain: is it because of the medium itself or because of the nature > of information that'll be available with multimedia delivery systems? yes. :-) seriously.. note that you asked "because of the medium itself". It's multiMedia, thats jargon for multiple mediums interacting with each other, and presenting data interactively on multiple fronts. It means an unfolding from two dimensional thinking ( text) to three dimensional thinking ( virtual reality ). > > I also see very little regarding potential for breaking the mind machine > > link, or biologic interfaces? > Uhhhh, OK. perhaps you are unaware of some of the more starling things that are being done with biofeedback interfaces. but even more simply than that.. lets take something mundane and achievable like hand gestures sensed by the data-glove. you want to get a privileged message to a colleague. If you can both access a data-space in real time and view an interactive simulation of each other in a prileged manner that insures no one else can capture and render either view, all you need to do is communicate via ASL or even a proprietary sign language, via the dataglove interface. this is very doable.. right now. let the Intelligence analysts chew on that! BTW, that scenario was suggested to me by an individual of my aquaintance who lives on the other side of the --uh-- tracks. he was very keen to be able to have such privileged communication, and cost is no factor to him, he pays in cash. (I should point out that I turned down the offer to contract the application) we are about to enter into an era of computing that provides quite a bit of potential to evade surveilance just because of the sheer multitude of possibilities. This is what is really driving those who want to do surveilance mad. Don't be surprsed if the ultimate result is draconian restriction in order to reduce the odds that are currently in our favor. Don't be surprised if you see your decentralised anarchic net go away and never return. LUX ./. owen

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"Is-a-person" Credentials, Fiat-Shamir paper
by tcmay＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

A minor correction to my post: "...this stuff have access to the CRYPTO Proceedings at large university libraries, and the Fiat-Shamir paper is definitely a nice little ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ intro, so I'm not sure it's worth the couple of hours it may take to get a good clean copy suitable for uploading to the list." I left out a "not, " which alters the meaning. What I meant to say is that the Fiat-Shamir paper is definitely *not* a nice little inro. It's an academic paperr, not a primer on is-a-person credentialling. Few primers on advanced cryptology exist, as I'm sure you've all noticed. I'll be interested to see Bruce Schneier's new book, "Practical Cryptography," to see if it covers any of these newer ideas. --Tim May -- .......................................................................... Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)netcom.com | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero 408-688-5409 | knowledge, reputations, information markets, W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments. Higher Power: 2^756839 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available. Note: I put time and money into writing this posting. I hope you enjoy it. -- .......................................................................... Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)netcom.com | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero 408-688-5409 | knowledge, reputations, information markets, W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments. Higher Power: 2^756839 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available. Note: I put time and money into writing this posting. I hope you enjoy it.

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Color Copiers
by Peter Capek (TL-863-6721) 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I suspect the desire to have color copiers "attended" is more a matter of controlling cost than anything else. I heard some years ago that the Secret Service had asked manufacturers who were working on color copiers to "strut their stuff" and demonstrate the best copies they could make of US currency. The SS was aghast at the results, and I believe these results were at least part of the motivation for the anti-counterfeiting measures recently introduced, such as the microprinting on $50 and $100 bills. There is also alleged to have been an effort by the government to degrade the quality the machines could deliver, or to make "equal size" copying unavailable (and provide only 5% reduction/increase at a minimum). Apparently Xerox said something to the effect of "Nothing doing; we worked for years to get it this good and aren't going to degrade it to solve your problem." Amen. Peter Capek

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Article on Cashless Society
by Philippe_D_Nave 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hello, all! There is an article in Information Week's October 11 issue titled "The Cashless Society" that discusses debit cards, smart cards, etc. This magazine is a management-type trade publication that bills itself as "The newsmagazine for information management." A fair-sized article; it may be of interest. Over the years, I've found this mag to be a fairly good place to watch for trends; they carry the sort of articles that our brass photocopies and gives us with notes like "Can we do this?" attached. FYI. ........................................................................ Philippe D. Nave, Jr. | The person who does not use message encryption pdn(a)dwroll.dw.att.com | will soon be at the mercy of those who DO... Denver, Colorado USA | PGP public key: by arrangement.

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Re: backing?
by swc＠uc1.ucsu.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I propose a simple basis for digicash: gold. REAL gold in a depositary, for which the digicash is basically a warehouse receipt. Try this: Alice purchases 10 ounces of gold and puts it in Bob the Banker's account at a depositary institution (like the big one in Zurich that holds much of the world's physical gold). When she makes the deposit, she annotates the transaction with an encrypted message to Bob saying "This deposit from <long random number>." Alice then logs into Bob's public access system with a pseudonymous account (automatically generated by Bob's hacked login software). Alice sends another message to Bob saying "Hey, that deposit you got from <long randome number> was from me: pseudonym." Bob issues digicash to <pseudonym> (not knowing this is Alice), and Alice happily spends the money under a DIFFERENT pseudonym. OK, fire away, my head is down :-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Stuart W. Card, Consultant, Card & Associates -- Research & Development Box 153 RR 1 Newport Rd Utica NY 13502 315-735-1717 / FAX -8469 swc(a)uc1.ucsu.edu or cards(a)top.cis.syr.edu "Who is John Galt?"

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Re: S Boxx blathering
by jamie＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>I've figured it out. He's a Borg. Seems there's more to the story. Borg do exhibit collective intelligence. Punksters, it's such a feeling of raw power over lesser intelligences

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Re: jrk@sys.uea.ac.uk (Richard Kennaway)
by peb＠PROCASE.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>Go to you local copier store. Pay cash. No one will care. I'm talking about buying the color *copier* itself. In all the copier businesses I've seen, none of them allowed one to make color copies unattended. Is this because they are complicated or expensive per copy or because of some kind of technology restriction (e.g., high quality color copies cannot simultaneously be anonymous and private). Paul E. Baclace peb(a)procase.com

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request for Pgp
by NAME GARY 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I'm new at this, and i don't want to ask any favors (i've seen what can happen to others that do) but i just need someone to tell me where i can find the pgp program so i can start to learn for myselt. all you have to do is give me the ftp site, and i don't care how much i get flamed because it'll be worth it.

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JUDGMENT PROOFING
by Sandy 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SANDY SANDFORT Reply to: ssandfort(a)attmail.com . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Robert J. Woodhead quoted Nate who wrote, in part: Imagine if all your money . . . was tied up in anonymous accounts and that all your property was owned by digital pseudonyms (from whom you rented the property). To which Robert responded: . . . Do not be so quick to assume that these wonderful and interesting techniques we discuss will solve long-standing problems. . . . No assumption necessary, Robert. Non-digital variations of these techniques have been used successfully for generations. The rich and politically savvy have always seen to it that exposure to litigation and the burden of taxes fell only on the middle class. Computers, the nets and crypto technology just make it easier for the rest of us to get in on the same deal. Once critical mass is reached, governments can't survive. The end, not with a bang, but a whimper. As for all the other nasty things governments can do to you: Remember, they have to see you as a threat or a juicy victim before they can focus in on you. If you use traditional and electronic privacy techniques, there is very little likelihood that you will come to their attention. Low Profile = Minimal Hassle S a n d y >>>>>> Please send e-mail to: ssandfort(a)attmail.com <<<<<< ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Re: Canon copier engine
by peb＠PROCASE.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> The worrisome item was the statement that the copiers would add > some sort of unspecified marking to each copy made, allowing copies > to be traced back to their source. Steganographic signatures. Similarly, signatures are being put into explosives (although they are somewhat traceable already) by using various mixtures of trace elements. Paul E. Baclace peb(a)procase.com

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