December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Detweiler, you are WASTING YOUR TIME
by nobody＠pmantis.berkeley.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Detweiler is apparently the only one who cares enough to waste any time on this. He's been provided with ample information to prove or disprove his accusations. He has refused to do so, and in such a refusal, he comes off like a ranting loony. Is there any evidence _whatsoever_ that these accounts are indeed one person? P.Metzger and T.C May have both posted evidence that they are seperate people. In absence of _any_ evidence to the contrary, I accept their word for it. I don't see a motive, I don't see any evidence. No smoking gun - from my perspective, it's simply your word against theirs. Detweiler's given me not one iota of proof for your claims, just a blanket assertion. There is no reason whatsoever for me (again, I don't know anybody involved here) to doubt their words. Detweiler, on the other hand, has alleged a huge conspiracy that's gone to a huge amount of theoretically tracable work (phone lines for all the pseudos in 3 different area codes). This seems like an extremely expensive way to accomplish what should be a fairly straightforward (and I note, harmless) procedure. I will reconsider that opinion if he can post whatever it is that convinced you that this is one person. I pretty much assume everything on the net is crap, since its an insecure means of communication. Anyone not convinced of this is politely directed towards their nearest zumabot posting. Dave Criswell The true source of Oracle Corporation's wretched desperation, and low level stooge of the vast satanic cryptoanarchist conspiracy dcriswel(a)us.oracle.com

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TC May advertises cypherpunks as keeping your taxes from going to 'people of colour'
by gtoal＠gtoal.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Perhaps Detweiler was right after all about certain cypherpunks having a hidden agenda... seems TC May's rationale for running the cypherpunks list isn't to do with enhancing individual liberties but rather keeping all us WASPS safe from 'people of colour'... I want nothing to do with a list run by racists. Unsubscribe me now please (cypher(a)an-teallach.com) G >Subject: Re: neo-nazis "supported" by NETCOM >Newsgroups: netcom.general In article <tcmayCJMv4q.3wq(a)netcom.com> tcmay(a)netcom.com writes: > >And I appreciate that Netcom has never once warned my for what many of >my critics have called seditious postings. It is true that I look >forward to seeing the collapse of the U.S. governement and the end to >the taxation that steals from me to give to so-called "people of >color." > >Some call me a Nazi, which is wrong. I use Netcom to spread strong >cryptography, the tool which will help overthrow the corrupt U.S. >government and usher in anarcho-capitalism. > >If this view interests you, contact me about joining the "Cypherpunks" >mailing list. > >--Tim May

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SecDriver 1.1 versus 1.2
by Hal 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Aside from the technical differences between the two packages, I think the more significant difference is in the distribution. Edgar's 1.2 documentation encourages users to put the package up for FTP, while Mike's 1.0 (and, I presume, 1.1) docs ask that this not be done. Mike wants to protect himself against a PGP-style investigation into export of software. But if 1.2 is put up for FTP, it could conceivably lead to such an investigation. And Mike would presumably be a potential target. This is a confusing situation. What rights does Mike have to control a derivative product like 1.2, given that he is releasing it under the Gnu Public License? Maybe the GPL is not appropriate for the release of crypto software, at least if the author will attempt to restrict its distribution in this way. I don't blame Mike for his concern, but I think we need to recognize an inconsistency between the following three goals, for U.S. citizens at least: public recognition as the author of a crypto package; avoidance of Grand Jury investigations; free availability of the package in the U.S. Hal

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Forged messages (was: TC May advertises cypherpunks as keeping your taxes from going to 'people of colour')
by Matthew J Ghio 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

"gtoal(a)gtoal.com" <gtoal(a)pizzabox.demon.co.uk> writes: > Perhaps Detweiler was right after all about certain cypherpunks having > a hidden agenda... seems TC May's rationale for running the cypherpunks > list isn't to do with enhancing individual liberties but rather keeping > all us WASPS safe from 'people of colour'... > > I want nothing to do with a list run by racists. Unsubscribe me now > please (cypher(a)an-teallach.com) > > G A few headers from the message: Received: by toad.com id AA16763; Sat, 15 Jan 94 05:13:04 PST Received: by toad.com id AA16671; Sat, 15 Jan 94 05:09:48 PST Received: from gate.demon.co.uk ([158.152.1.65]) by toad.com id AA16667; Sat, 15 Jan 94 05:09:42 PST Received: from pizzabox.demon.co.uk by gate.demon.co.uk id aa06847; 15 Jan 94 13:04 GMT Received: by pizzabox.demon.co.uk (AA25018); Sat, 15 Jan 94 13:01:35 GMT Date: Sat, 15 Jan 94 13:01:35 GMT Message-Id: <9401151301.AA25018(a)pizzabox.demon.co.uk> From: "gtoal(a)gtoal.com" <gtoal(a)pizzabox.demon.co.uk> Reply-To: Graham Toal <gtoal(a)pizzabox.demon.co.uk> To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Subject: TC May advertises cypherpunks as keeping your taxes from going to 'people of colour' Note that pizzabox.demon.co.uk [158.152.8.236] doesn't tell where it got the message from. Could it have been longs.lance.colostate.edu? I liked Detweiler better when he just used anon.penet.fi. P.S. I sent myself a test email by telnetting to pizzabox.demon.co.uk 25, but it identified the IP address I telnetted from... hopefully the site administrators at demon.co.uk have recognized the problem and taken steps to prevent further detweiling. But be on your lookout, this will only hold him off until he can find another SMTP port to spoof from.

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WARNING: IGNORE ANY RECENT POSTINGS FROM MY SITE
by gtoal＠gtoal.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I've just caught someone logged on to Matthew Ghio's account mg5n(a)glenn.res. andrew.cmu.edu abusing my system to post mail purportedly from "anon(a)detweiler.com". I suspect it was aimed at cypherpunks though since I'm now no longer subscribed, I don't know what he posted. I can't tell the recipient from the minimal logs here. I've notified the andrew.cmu.edu postmaster that someone may have abused Ghio's account and be using it to hack from. Graham

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SecureDrive 1.1 & 1.2
by W. Kinney 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hal <hfinney(a)shell.portal.com> writes: >Mike wants to protect himself against a PGP-style investigation into >export of software. But if 1.2 is put up for FTP, it could conceivably >lead to such an investigation. And Mike would presumably be a >potential target. > >This is a confusing situation. What rights does Mike have to control a >derivative product like 1.2, given that he is releasing it under the >Gnu Public License? Legal questions aside, one might hope that within the Cypherpunks at least there might be more of an ethic of respecting the wishes of an author. Edgar seems awfully casual about exposing other people to legal difficulties without their consent, and justifying that by some bullshit technicality doesn't change the reality of it one bit. I for one am most unimpressed. -- Will -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.3 iQCVAgUBLTfaV/fv4TpIg2PxAQG8TgP7B1RCFmNquI1ctKdLqVutIcWy8S8ycM3F wjZXGuCRiDZnRQh6q+WTp7aG5p07suF0qmVCFZnvAmrLBZx/PfsFxRPuSZML5J4R b+Clw9uq2rADxUbClgekp7oL4MXmOuXjYCiXdc2CoogME2s4fZRdT9cdteS6hieW kQOWTzfGQzw= =CQtw -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Using the tools we have
by VACCINIA＠UNCVX1.OIT.UNC.EDU 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- The detman has been blathering for weeks about how he will subvert the list and we now see all sorts of rants impugning the reputations of certain cypherpunks. Postings are reiterated with the message that so and so said this or that and this person is a nazi, or some such drivel. I have no idea who said what because many of the technowizards don't avail themselves of the technology which they themselves have made available and promote as a powerful new tool for the future. Positive reputations? Without an electronic sig, you don't have one. Future? It's here. If even we don't use the available tools, then they are indeed worthless. Expect a long campaign of det-rants if people don't take steps to negate this bullshit now. I personally don't want to see the list go back to the way it was in the days of an12070. Many of you have been hard at work developing NET tools for the future, I applaud you for it but it seems that you will soon need them-like now. It's a pain in the ass for me to sign stuff and I am probably the least techno-capable of all of you. I do it because I see the writing on the wall, you see it too. The time is now punks. Scott G. Morham !The First, Vaccinia(a)uncvx1.oit.unc.edu ! Second PGP23a Public key by request! and Third Levels ! of Information Storage and Retrieval !DNA, ! Biological Neural Nets, ! Cyberspace -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.3a iQCVAgUBLTefRz2paOMjHHAhAQFhfwP9EKM24d0ha4jktJhykLiIRU31MjJ5ne8q V7YDgKFfYnaj5SmwcSCDSDyeKfEBlKdEW32MJlNRmE+OpgINv/+IlZivJzof3bCx Qqr/FS2erUHGRTcDo1D164PEMaNbqAwCgSfVaaW1EnzNbGqv/4q0aVV17IlOl7Zq gPmbueEPfrs= =nTSc -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Detweiler is really losing it...
by remail＠tamsun.tamu.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Question: has anybody actually had any contact with Detweiler recently? I know he used to be a rational and respectable Usetter; keeper of the Privacy FAQ, runner of an autoposter service for other people's FAQs, etc. I'd like to think this is all somebody's research project or piece of performance art, but otherwise... it's pretty ugly to watch this disintegration happen. The deterioration has been marked even within the last few weeks. The RISKS posting was coherent enough, and no more paranoid than say, the average talk.politics.guns poster. My opinion is just from his language, logic, reaction to other people - whether his conspiracy theories are true are not is pretty irrelevant. Multiple identites mapping to one person is hardly unusual in electronic spaces, but most people regard tracking them down as a challenge or an entertainment, not as the cause for desperate rage and paranoia. Cf. the netsport of hunting down John Palmer identities. Is he actually a student at Colorado State? If so, and he's genuinely sending out death threats, the recipients might seriously consider forwarding them there. Not to get him in trouble, but perhaps to get someone to look into the situation before this accelerating downward curve gets where ever it is going. There's plenty of nuts on the net, but the level of their nuttiness is stable enough. I don't think I've ever seen someone fall apart like this before. Of course, maybe it *is* just performance art... Laura -- -------------- Laura Burchard / burchard(a)digex.net ---------------- "It didn't take very much reductio to get right down to absurdium from where you started." ------------------------------------------------------------------------- To find out more about this anonymous remail service, send mail to remail(a)tamsun.tamu.edu with the word "remail help" as the only words in the subject field.

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On leaving the list; and forgeries
by gtoal＠gtoal.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Ah. Now I see why Matthew was forging mail from my site. Thanks for your concern Matthew, but the mail was indeed from me, and pizzabox is quite secure since I run home-brew fingerwarz and pidentwarz daemons. I'll pgp-sign this confirmation just to keep everyone happy. Yes, I have unsubscribed from cypherpunks because I don't want to be part of a list which is advertised elsewhere on the net as being sympathetic to people who don't want their tax money going to coloured people. If he'd said he didn't want his tax money going to unemployed people or poor people, I could have understood his viewpoint (though not sypmathised with it), but to explicitly single out coloured people in a posting soliciting like-minded people for cypherpunks tells me its time to move on. And as for doug@netcom's rant, I'm not even going to dignify it with an answer. G : Note that pizzabox.demon.co.uk [158.152.8.236] doesn't tell where it got : the message from. Could it have been longs.lance.colostate.edu? I : liked Detweiler better when he just used anon.penet.fi. : : : P.S. I sent myself a test email by telnetting to pizzabox.demon.co.uk : 25, but it identified the IP address I telnetted from... hopefully the : site administrators at demon.co.uk have recognized the problem and taken : steps to prevent further detweiling. But be on your lookout, this will : only hold him off until he can find another SMTP port to spoof from. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.2 iQCVAgUBLThdO3CRCOmNcN2dAQG80QP/aWyl1C2AsVpxtR/Jvtaj2egf+CAtXtZq KSYzmo2xLe/8iTJdD495Ttjrsp/hSB9Z630EU0bTfPQ7o82uf75JE3F1oz+tzRiq LlNjpUwaEX3PVZNQkyiSrZ7dEALWbkaGVZgCsrXWXcvuGjdf/BSZpCSNtgj0O39h ZENhzUN+dfM= =X/Zc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- PS Matthew - I'll mail the andrew.cmu.edu postmaster and tell him it was a misunderstanding.

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Apology to Graham Toal & Cypherpunks
by Matthew J Ghio 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I'd like to apologize for stating that the post made by Graham Toal <gtoal(a)pizzabox.demon.co.uk> was a forgery. It has now come to my attention that it was not. Graham Toal had always posted from <gtoal(a)an-teallach.com> until today, when he suddenly posted from: "gtoal(a)gtoal.com" <gtoal(a)pizzabox.demon.co.uk>, talking about a racist post by TC May that I had never seen, and asking to be removed from the list. Naturally, I got suspicious. I still don't know what's going on with the email address switching, but I guess the recent events on cypherpunks have made me a bit overly paranoid. Hopefully, I haven't made a complete fool out of myself over this misunderstanding. I guess we have another good reason to sign with PGP...

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