December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

How do I unsubsrcibe
by AFCO73%IRMFAO01.BITNET＠vm.cnuce.cnr.it 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Good day, would someone please advise me how I could unsubscribe from this list? Thanks for your help. Johnny Hua at FAO of the UN, Italy

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APOLOGY!!!!
by carugo o 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Yes, I want to make a public apology on behalf of my obnoscious brother he is the only neg I know. More relevant information will come from me. u.r.carugo e0004353(a)brookes.uk.ac

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Words, words, words
by an31122＠anon.penet.fi 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Fellow cpunks, I'm a little ashamed to admit it, but I enjoy a bit of flame war. I genuinely do not care what happens to Mr. BatGuano ("if that IS your name"), so a clever insult once in a while is fun to read. If Detweiler really IS Boxx, so what? If he says that you're a moron, so what? If someone creates a second name to use when they're mad and want to flame, that's their business. What's important is the ideas in someones head, not the name they use. While I'm interested in dining cryptographers, I also find it enlightening to listen to Tim May or Duncan Frissell talk politics. I don't see any reason to limit this list to discussions of random number generators. It would be a terrible waste to ignore the collected wisdom and experience of the group because it was marginally off topic. If people would have simply ignored Detweiler rather than answering his tomes, he would have gone away sooner. It only takes a few lines to see whether a post will be interesting or not. If not, DON'T READ IT. Forget it, trash it, delete it. Most importantly, don't get upset about it. It's just words; they can't hurt you. I give Detweiler a paragraph or two. We all know who is worth listening to and who isn't. Once you've figured out what Detweiler, rjc, or Boxx have to say, don't bother reading them anymore. That's all there is to it. My point, I guess, is that net.talk isn't all that different from real.talk. There are real people on the other end of the line, regardless of the names that they use. Some are worth listening to, some are not. It's not hard to tell them apart, and not hard to ignore the wierdos. Talk of censoring people, charging for posts, or sharply defining the scope of the group all seem to make things worse rather than better. It's silly to talk of the way that things "should be". It's far more productive (and easier!) to figure out how to get what you want from the way that they already are. See you in the Zone, Tyrone Slothrop (RocketMan) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help(a)anon.penet.fi. Due to the double-blind, any mail replies to this message will be anonymized, and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned. Please report any problems, inappropriate use etc. to admin(a)anon.penet.fi.

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hardware projects and stuph
by hiscdcj＠lux.latrobe.edu.au 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

: > Here's some topics that I've been wanting to bring up with : >the CypherPunks. I figured it'd be best to just drop one email/post : >rather than 4. : : > Or is anyone interested in starting a parallel list of sorts for the : > hardware-punks? 'ware-punks? :-) or perhaps an even better name : > would be The Homebrew Computer Club^2. : : >3. PUNK-NET: (see HARDWARE above) : : I may be able to get a mailing list for punk net going. If people : don't mind discussing hardware in that, that's cool. : : However: I'm not big on unix (at all, actually), so I can subscribe people : and stuff like that, but if it crashes it may take a while to get going : again. : Can anyone tell me how much diskspace a listserver will take up? : I have about 15 meg to play with, that should be more than enough : ( he says, innocently ) : : Dwayne. : (Dwayne Jones-Evans IRC: ddraig ) ( SCA: Cynon Yscolan ap Myrddin, Stormhold, Lochac, West) PGP public key available. finger me. be gentle. internet---> hiscdcj(a)lux.latrobe.edu.au

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Re: blacknet international offers DOSSIERS for SALE
by major＠dcd.wa.gov.au 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

cman(a)IO.COM (Douglas Barnes) writes: > > Trust me, its worth it just for the nude photographys of me with an > > ostrich. (How they got a camera into that vault, I'll never know.) > > Yeah? You're probably getting a cut. Heck, you could *be* blacknet :-). I'm sure Perry is shocked, simply shocked that anyone would suggest that. Major

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Re: My Key
by an41418＠anon.penet.fi 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hugh, I agree with most of what you say. However, my point was, that say someone wants to become Wonderer (I mean, it's great being me, who wouldn't want to?), they could forge a message as coming from me and include a public key. From them on, they would be wonderer, and it would be more believable than if I sent the messages myself. They could prove they were me better than I could. My point was that if someone sent me private mail, and I responded with my public key, that would be much less likely to be a forgery. However, I will concede. Here's my public key, and after this one, I'll sign my messages. If anyone wants confirmation of my public key, or wants to sign it for me let me know. However, since there is no certificate, I probably wouldn't sign your key under the same circumstances, so it's up to you. The problem I have with public key cryptography is that it is easy for an imposter to publish a public key and get people to believe that it is valid. Wonderer -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.3 mQBNAizOm20AAAECAMfolwrccyUip9pUcpLQjLSw0BWgmIhW2v1YjGOxTqJdU8+v Nh9eXckudk6h6LCcs7KIn++PSl04HWRMm6ugMP0ABRG0CHdvbmRlcmVy =foLb -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help(a)anon.penet.fi. Due to the double-blind, any mail replies to this message will be anonymized, and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned. Please report any problems, inappropriate use etc. to admin(a)anon.penet.fi.

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Chaos - A noun we can live with
by an41418＠anon.penet.fi 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> i like cpunx the way it is: uncontrolled. I too agree with this statement up to a point. I don't believe there should be any control by the list management. However, I see no problem with the democratic process of participants on the mailing list saying whatever they can to quiet those who are disrupting the intelligent discussions that are taking place with useless banter and silly flames. Personally, I always found flaming to be an unproductive way of expressing one's self. Constructive criticism is always better in my view. Wonderer p.s. something's wrong with my pgp, I'll start signing soon. Sorry. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help(a)anon.penet.fi. Due to the double-blind, any mail replies to this message will be anonymized, and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned. Please report any problems, inappropriate use etc. to admin(a)anon.penet.fi.

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Signing our keys
by an41418＠anon.penet.fi 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Well, it is true that you have built up a reputation on the list. I am trying to do the same. Quite an interesting experience. It seems to me that we have an interesting dilemma here. If we are willing to sign a key based on an entity that we KNOW does not really exist, then what does a signature mean? You have been an active and productive participant on cypherpunks for quite some time now, so if that's what I'm saying by signing your key, then I would be willing to. Off line methods wouldn't work in this case because we aren't real. Something strange is going on in the word when nym's are signing each other's keys... I am going to register my public key as you suggested. If you send me a signed copy, I will add it to my keyring. Please send me your public key, and I will sign it for you. The world is becoming a more interesting place. Wonderer p.s. I believe something may be wrong with my pgp here at my oranization. I type: pgp -sat file -u wonderer +cleartext=on as someone on the list suggested, and this does not work. What command do you use to sign your messages? I will include a detached signature of this message below. -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: 2.3 iQBVAgUALM/wPh1kTJuroDD9AQEq5AH+Nxou8vx4F3JsDhSDvUpy6P0yvXz2Be/F Q32ZwM+AiBD/Sijb/XX3Z2jixDTWP/xs/lr2Iw1tmbK8RBWS4iZDLQ== =rjX8 -----END PGP MESSAGE----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help(a)anon.penet.fi. Due to the double-blind, any mail replies to this message will be anonymized, and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned. Please report any problems, inappropriate use etc. to admin(a)anon.penet.fi.

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Re: Signing our keys
by paul＠poboy.b17c.ingr.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In an interesting list message, Wonderer wrote: >It seems to me that we have an interesting dilemma >here. If we are willing to sign a key based on an >entity that we KNOW does not really exist, then what >does a signature mean? Here's a terrific example of one of the interesting differences between the PEM-style key hierarchy and the PGP web. Consider that any entity (real or spoofed) can own a key pair in either model. A PEM key is bound to a particular identity by a certificate. Right now, you can only get these certificates from entities that want some concrete evidence of your True Name; this makes sense, since the certificate establishes that key X belongs to True Name Y. PGP, OTOH, doesn't have any direct equivalent of a certificate. If I get Wonderer's key with no signatures, I can't guarantee anything about the association between that entity and the key I get. If I get that same PGP key with signatures from Phil Karn and L. Detwiler, I know that they're willing to certify the assocation. Does that mean anything? Well, it depends on who the signers are :) A set of PGP signatures can be equivalent to a PEM-style certificate; that is, the set of signatures on a key, establishing that a particular key belongs to a particular entity, can potentially be as trustworthy as a certificate from Dun & Bradstreet or RSA. The PGP feature that a key doesn't have to belong to the True Name of an entity is a big plus in my book; otherwise, we'd have no Wonderer, no deadbeat, and no S. Boxx. - -Paul - -- Paul Robichaux, KD4JZG | Caution: cutting edge is sharp. Avoid contact. Intergraph Federal Systems | Be a cryptography user - ask me how. ** Of course I don't speak for Intergraph. ** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.3a iQCVAgUBLNAJ2yA78To+806NAQF/DAQApsjQgIjW26GPvL2kINfCzTGyxn6zXJr9 OZVdLjPRe/J7eudxXfe5q7MlENxyomXgXqnUr5AxmTEjPzWCj63D1Yq2qr2Gcjq+ i7YTg8d9P+L+yTsTVUBk+ZIbBv+AFnD35yCEQnIC5nCE0kK644cpwa1FjDyLla01 2m4fvPNTOnM= =ZF43 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Words, words, words
by J. Michael Diehl 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

According to wonderer: > > Some words that can hurt you: > - death threats > - "You're fired" > - "I don't want to see you ever again." > - "You're ideas are stupid; take them somewhere else." > - "We see no option but to declare war!" > you get the idea. You forgot: Bitch, nigger, queer, spick, Nazi, dumbfuck, chink, wop, etc. Simply a call for people to try to be a bit more polite to each other. J. Michael Diehl ;^) |*The 2nd Amendment is there in case the mdiehl(a)triton.unm.edu | Government forgets about the 1st! <RL> Mike.Diehl(a)f29.n301.z1 |*God is a good Physicist, and an even .fidonet.org | better Mathematician. <Me> al945(a)cwns9.ins.cwru.edu|*I'm just looking for the opportunity to (505) 299-2282 (voice) | be Politically Incorrect! <Me> Can we impeach him yet? |*Protected by 18 USC 2511 and 18 USC 2703.

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