December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

"Fortune" article on crypto
by Timothy C. May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Wading through 150 or more messages from while I was away (a huge fraction of them either about or from Vulis), I didn't see mention of the long article on crypto, export issues, RSADSI, Bidzos, the NSA, etc., in the current issue of "Fortune" magazine, 11 November. One think caught my eye, though I haven't finished reading the whole thing. "Bidzos professes what seems sincere respect for the spy agency--several of its former staffers even work for him. But he insists that it needs a gadfly: "I've gone there a few times and listened to their dark-side folks. I always come out feeling that I'm a traitor. I deserve to die. I'm causing the early demise of society and should just scuttle the company, But an hour after I leave the agency, my head clears and I think, "Okay, back to reality."" This echoes the feeling I often have (though I have never been given the "If you knew what we know" spiel, though I have a vivid imagination and have known for the last half-dozen years what the implications of strong and untraceable crypto implies). That is, I understand the role of the NSA and the longterm "threats" strong crypto implies. (I avoid blather about how all it is useful for is to protect the democratic and privacy rights of citizen-units. That's comforting twaddle, popular with some journalists and some namby pamby privacy advocates. In fact, strong crypto is a tool for deconstructing and demolishing democratic institutions, which is why I support it. Obviously. Yes, I sometimes get concerned about the lives which will be affected, but, ultimately, the ubermensch must do what he must do, regardless of how some in the herd are affected.) Also Sprach Tim, "The government announcement is disastrous," said Jim Bidzos,.."We warned IBM that the National Security Agency would try to twist their technology." [NYT, 1996-10-02] We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1,257,787-1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Vilus
by amp＠pobox.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Many thanks for all who have kept the discussion of Vilus and censorship in the subject lines of the current threads. It greatly aids the elimination of much garbage (like this post). I won't even see this post. Apologies for all with less efficient filters. ------------------------ Name: amp E-mail: amp(a)pobox.com Date: 11/05/96 Time: 05:41:19 Visit http://www.public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum EARTH FIRST! We'll strip mine the other planets later. ------------------------

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Re: just what we #$%^&* needed from big brother....
by Adamsc＠io-online.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Mon, 04 Nov 96 19:15:39 +0000, attila(a)primenet.com wrote: >Welcome to 1984+ what else with useless and illegally constituted >bureaucrats add to their total infringement of every facet of our life. > >.NEW SYSTEM LINKS LENDERS, IRS >.information for the previous couple of years. If the cross-check turns up a >.more than $10,000 discrepancy between the earnings claimed on the application >.and those declared for tax purposes, the IRS has the option of pursuing the This isn't actually the end of the world. In fact we should be applauding their efforts to make their abominable system more efficient. Whether it should be scraped is another issue. In other words, as long as they are going to do it, they might as well do it right. # Chris Adams <adamsc(a)io-online.com> | http://www.io-online.com/adamsc/adamsc.htp # <cadams(a)acucobol.com> | send mail with subject "send PGPKEY" "That's our advantage at Microsoft; we set the standards and we can change them." --- Karen Hargrove, Microsoft (quoted in the Feb 1993 Unix Review editorial)

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WinSock Remailer Down
by Joey Grasty 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Y'all: Effective immediately, winsock(a)c2.org is down until I find a new home for it. The account expired today, so it is an opportune time to find a new location. It will probably end up at Cyberpass, as soon as I have time to read the User Agreement from Hell (tm). I expect to have it back up at a different location in less than a week. I'd like to thank Sameer at C2NET who has hosted the WinSock Remailer during its painful birth and childhood. I now need time to grow the remailer into adulthood (read Windows NT and 95), so that remailers can spread widely. Regards, Joey Grasty WinSock Remailer Operator -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQB1AwUBMoAY38ODO2V89BZZAQH2lAL+ITKvy9e8WB+66sQXwFqOatoV6SHYqY7Q mcWad9UE43bqnHA10YJiCKqe/vfhEbpNgh9hB5JIn9bVkiWCvIDtl8tIzkHyvo9q 2l6xwMx0pwaN4SmfPBkn/0FLagT6pvdp =L3Iq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- Joey Grasty jgrasty(a)gate.net [home -- encryption, privacy, RKBA and other hopeless causes] jgrasty(a)pts.mot.com [work -- designing pagers] "Anyone who considers arithmetical methods of producing random digits is, of course, in a state of sin." -- John Von Neumann PGP = A7 CC 31 E4 7E A3 36 13 93 F4 C9 06 89 51 F5 A7

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BUR_ke
by azur＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

December's Internet World contains a good article by futurist James Burke ('Connections', and 'The Day the Universe Changed') on the societal impact of the Net. He discusses the international legal challenge of the Net, privacy/anonymity, its effect on copyright and publishing, and worldwide intellectual growth. PGP Fingerprint: FE 90 1A 95 9D EA 8D 61 81 2E CC A9 A4 4A FB A9 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Snoop Daty Data | Internet: azur(a)netcom.com Grinder | Sacred Cow Meat Co. | --------------------------------------------------------------------- Hacker Opportunities (Let's Make Lots Of Money) I've got the brains, you've got the tricks Let's make lots of money You've got the code, I've got the hooks Let's make lots of ... I've had enough of scheming and messing `round with jerks My crypto code's compiled, I'm afraid it doesn't work I'm looking for a partner, someone who gets things fixed Ask yourself this question: do you want to be rich? I've got the hacks, you've got the keys Let's make lots of money You've got the code, I've got the hooks Let's make lots of money You can tell I'm educated, I studied at CalTech Doctored in mathematics, I could've been set I can program a computer, choose the perfect time If you've got the inclination, I have got the crime Ooooh, there's a lot of opportunities If you know when to take them, you know There's a lot of opportunities If there aren't, you can make them (Make or break them) I've got the brains, you've got the tricks Let's make lots of money Let's make lots of ... You can see I'm single-minded, I know what I could be How do you feel about it? Come, take a walk with me I'm looking for a partner regardless of expense Think about it seriously, you know it makes sense Let's (Got the brains) Make (Got the tricks) Let's make lots of money (Money) Let's (You've got the code) Make (I've got the hacks) Let's make lots of money (Money) I've got the brains (Got the hooks) You've got the code (Got the keys) Let's make lots of money (Money) Money!

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Re: just what we #$%^&* needed from big brother....
by Adamsc＠io-online.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Wed, 6 Nov 1996 05:41:52 +0000 (GMT), attila wrote: >> >Welcome to 1984+ what else with useless and illegally constituted >> >bureaucrats add to their total infringement of every facet of our life. >> >.NEW SYSTEM LINKS LENDERS, IRS >> >.information for the previous couple of years. If the cross-check turns up a >> >.more than $10,000 discrepancy between the earnings claimed on the application >> >.and those declared for tax purposes, the IRS has the option of pursuing the >> >> This isn't actually the end of the world. In fact we should be applauding >> their efforts to make their abominable system more efficient. Whether it >> should be scraped is another issue. In other words, as long as they are >> going to do it, they might as well do it right. >> > my point is more towards: "...here goes another direct batch of > information directly into the federal computers --home location and > the link between real and 'imagined' income which immediately opens > the door for the IRS CID to start a tax-fraud investigation which > quickly leads to liens on your property, etc. while they audit the > living life out of you. just one more piece, a major one at that, in > the national databank ready to persecute you.... Yes. I was just trying to point out that as long as they are going to do something, it's refreshing to see that they do it right. Whether they should be doing it at all is an entirely different matter and I have little doubt that most of the list subscribers believe, as I do, that there should be some major reforms. Still, government incompetency is rather frustrating and helps inspire cynicism.s # Chris Adams <adamsc(a)io-online.com> | http://www.io-online.com/adamsc/adamsc.htp # <cadams(a)acucobol.com> | send mail with subject "send PGPKEY" "That's our advantage at Microsoft; we set the standards and we can change them." --- Karen Hargrove, Microsoft (quoted in the Feb 1993 Unix Review editorial)

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Re: Any Info for Sen. Pressler....
by stewarts＠ix.netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 12:57 PM 11/4/96 -0700, "Troy M. Barnhart" <barney(a)rapidnet.com> wrote: >If anyone has any specific bits of info on cryptography, etc... >please feel free to send it to me... >I live in South Dakota... >Due to circumstances I occasionally see and speak >w/ Senator Larry Pressler - (Committee Leader)... At this point, I think he's now Ex-Senator Pressler, if I saw the election returns I think I saw. # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk # Nov. 5 is Guy Fawkes Day - Vote Early and Often, and create Fireworks!

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Judge Kozinski responds to our responses
by Jim Ray 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com, jmr(a)shopmiami.com Date: Wed Nov 06 16:38:58 1996 Dear cypherpunks: Judge Alex Kozinski has mercifully (unless you consider _this_ noise, too) given me permission to post the following message. This will be my last posting signed by this key. I will now attempt to implement my new one, hopefully without denying myself access to Pronto at the same time. JMR ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To start with, we should probably thank the people who helped. Black Unicorn, Mike McNally, Declan McCullagh, Loren Rittle, Lynne L. Harrison, Tim May, Lucky Green, Greg Broiles, A. Michael Froomkin, and E. Allen Smith all had good thoughts to share, and I am probably leaving someone out. Oh well. Anyway, Judge Kozinski wrote: > Jim: Thanx for forwarding the various messages which I have > found eye-opening in many respects. It's take me a while to > review and digest it all and I find there are certainly many > aspects of the anonymity problem that I either was not > aware of or had not fully appreciated. Although I cannot > quite say I'm entirely persuaded on this issue, I think we > may be a lot closer. Rather than responding to individual > messages (several of which made related points) I will give > you my reaction to what I thought were the most important > points. > > 1. I agree entirely that you should be able to post > anonymously to a list-serv or discussion group. Anonymity > there may encourage people to express unpopular views, and > there is no offsetting fear that this will be viewed as an > invasion of privacy by anyone. We have a long tradition of > anonymous or pseudonymous political tracts (e.g. Federalist > Papers) and there is no reason not to continue this in the > electronic medium. Indeed, as suggested by one of the > messages you forwarded, there may be greater reason because > messages posted to discussion groups do get retained and > indexed for posterity. > > 2. I also agree that it should be possible to have mutually > agreed-upon anonymity--i.e. I write to you and you write to > me and we both know who we are, but nobody else does. No > problema--it's nobody else's business. > > 3. I still have some difficulty with direct mailing of > anonymous messages to individual mailboxes. Actually, having run a remailer and seen some abuse for a while, I do too. Respected cypherpunks are working hard on this right now. I think what we would all like to eventually see is a "default off" situation, with no mail (or at least the warning message I mentioned before as a first message to new recipients) rather than default-on. Unfortunately, e-mail is a default-on situation and so (for now) are anonymous remailer messages for first-time recipients, at this early stage in their evolution. I am confident that this situation will change in the future, as more sophisticated software is written. > The arguments > in favor if doing so are good but not airtight. Here are my > responses to the ones I thought were most compelling: > > a. You have anonymous snail-mail and telephone calls--why > not e-mail? The truth is, anonymous snail-mail and > telephone calls are also an invasion of privacy, but there > is not much we can do about them. Someone asked whether I > objected to getting anonymous snail mail if it was not > threatening. The answer is YES, just like getting an > anonymous phone call is objectionable. When the person who > communicates with you insists on retaining anonymity, there > is always an implicit threat--they know who you are, but you > don't--you feel vulnerable, you doubt their motives, you > have difficulty knowing whether to trust their > representations. Anonymous complaints against co-workers > and supervisors was a standard way to get people into big > trouble in Communist Romania when I was growing up. The thing is, I find many anonymous messages that I see on the list not too valuable initially, and the anonymous or pseudonymous poster, in order to build some "reputation-capital," has to stay around a while and post interesting stuff, like Black Unicorn or Lucky Green. This is, IMO, as it should be. There is an incredibly funny humorist lurking on the list, who posts the "cypherpunk enquirer" anonymously, and I can send you a few of those if you like. [The judge hasn't asked me to, yet. He doesn't know what he's missing. :) ] We certainly don't want the situation you were all-too familiar with growing up, but as a remailer-operator I find that I must take the bitter with the sweet, and I am fully ready to admit that about 1/3 of the messages that go through WinSock are abusive, judging by the stuff I see in the reject bin. That's one of the reasons Joey (the other operator, and the author of the WinSock Remailer software) and I went to PGP-encrypted messages only, we felt that abusers were less likely to learn and use PGP. > Now, the fact that we can't stop anonymous snail-mail and > telephone calls doesn't mean we shouldn't stop anonymous > e-mail if we think it's a bad thing. The fact that an evil > cannot be remedied in its entirety does not mean that we > should not remedy the part that we can. Perhaps the answer > is that the post office should not accept mail unless there > is a clear indication of who the sender is on the upper left > hand corner of the envelope. In any event, I find the > argument based on analogies to snail-mail and telephone not > entirely persuasive. I feel that the fact that an evil is this hard to remedy through traditional legal means suggests that a very hard look at technological means is in order. I hope that we can both agree that in many cases, technology can adapt to situations and problems faster and cheaper than law can. > b. You can't really ever prevent anonymity because people > can get e-mail accounts anonymously--paying for them in cash. > Arguments based on futility are always suspect. Sure, some > people will circumvent any laws or regulations, but that's > not a reason not to have laws. For one thing, most people > don't get anonymous accounts and don't know how to do so. True. > Even if you do get an anonymous account, you can be shut > down if you break the rules and then you'll have to go > somewhere else. This point, I believe, is actually in "my" side's favor. There are time costs to this kind of setup stuff that even the abusers may dislike, and abusers' names and methods tend to get put on lists that ISPs look at. I am sure that privacy providing ISPs look at these lists. > And maybe all this suggests is that we > ought to require e-mail providers to obtain id from their > patrons and require payment by check or credit card. I am > not suggesting these measures, mind you, but insofar as > futility is used as an argument against regulation, it can > equally well serve as an argument for MORE regulation. I agree that it's not our most powerful argument, but it is a consideration, because with futility comes high cost and disrespect for the law. Witness the failed drugwar and the lack of respect for the law it has engendered, even among government agencies. Often, this disrespect for the law comes with no legal or political cost to perpetrators (unless you count my ranting as a political cost). > c. People can use filters. Well, yes, maybe. But most > people don't know how to use filters. I consider myself > above-average in my e-mail sophistication, and I don't know > how to use filters. I could probably figure it out, but > most people who use aol or prodigy probably have no ability > to install a filter even if they knew how they worked. In > any event, I find it a little troublesome to put the burden > on the recipients to adopt a hi-tech solution. And who says > there aren't ways around most common filters--or such > ways won't be developed--which would put recipients in a > technology race with anonymous mailers? True, and the abusers already _are_ in a technology race with the remailer-operators, as I see just about every day on the remailer-operators list. I have serious doubts that yet-another law would either change or improve the situation. * * * > Anyway, thanx for a stimulating series of messages. I do > think we've made some progress. And we'll keep the channels > of communication open. The pleasure has been all mine, Judge Kozinski. JMR -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMoEFd21lp8bpvW01AQHR1AQAib06JhpWx06H6Pr25uuMUj6fQVXZIYfc KeUdP/QSSWQHfIwxs2SX1a++SCbnx6Ev//ninb7Q8F5kj56mk0yq0SE/ID91WgwJ iFEr+2V1oTf+JZISh68F/a/fPBrP8GL8rjUce+WYhiY704rlsNyr5L9UhtylkzNg GM5Ml/A7qjc= =tVan -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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No Subject
by Bovine Remailer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The arrival of warm weather is heralded by the pig shit (or whatever kind of shit Intel swines have for brains) getting soft in Timothy C[rook] May's mini-cranium and the resulting green slime seeping through key cocaine- and syphilis- damaged nose and onto his keyboard.

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UNSUBCRIBE CENSORSHIP
by Pos Indonesia 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

UNSUBCRIBE CENSORSHIP

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