December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: wealth and property rights
by Murray Hayes 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Wed, 27 Nov 1996 15:00:36 -0800 (PST), Dave Kinchlea wrote: >On Wed, 27 Nov 1996, snow wrote: >You are clearly an angry young man. I am sorry you have such a poor >opinion of people, I am even more sorry if it is justified. You can >believe me or not, but what you describe is *not* the ordinary case in >this country. Of course, in this country we have a disgusting 10+% >unemployment rate. Even if people DO want to work, there are no jobs. > >All that aside, I can tell you do not have a family if you thing that >$6.50/hr is a living! Even accounting for the difference in our dollar, >I would say that is barely subsistence income for a single person. Are >we *all* not worthy of more than that? > Yes, there are maany angry young men in this country. Unions prevent young men from compeating in the market place. Unemployment Insurance artificialy increases the unemployment rate by 2% (this is a figure that many people more knowledgable than me have stated) welfare increases the unemployment rate by another 1%. The Canadian Pension Plan is out of money and yet I am still forced to contribute and for what??? Will it still exist when I retire? Not bloody likely. Fortunatly NAFTA has forced some of our companies to compeat or die. Take a look at Canadian. Are they gone? I didn't get to watch the news today...... I'll bet that most of the employees would gladly take a 10% wage cut to save to company but the union leaders won't let them vote on it. Why? Because they would loose power. Look at what the govn't do. Most of them just contribute to the problem by offering hand outs. They don't need hand outs! ONE gov't (Alberta) offered to lower the fuel taxes. YAAAAA RALPH!!! (Who's ecinomic reforms incidentally (sp) was hearalded by the Post as a model for govn't across North America) Cut taxes and kill the union leaders. Sorry for siting my sources..... mhayes(a)infomatch.com It's better for us if you don't understand It's better for me if you don't understand -Tragically Hip

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PO-2 Brain wave meters.
by Napalm 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Has NE1 heard of these things? Supposedly you plug it into your printer port and it shows you your brain waves so you can try to reach "alpha" waves or something. I think they cost around $500. If it`s for real you could do some neat things with it; how bout your computer waking up when you wake up... that terminator 2 plot comes closer every day.... NEway if anybody knows anything about it let`s have it. L8R -Napalm SFNF9UY(a)SCFN.THPL.LIB.FL.US

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NYC area Cpunks Meeting?
by Marc J. Wohler 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- NYC area Cpunk's, I have obtained a meeting place on the upper west side of Manhattan. It is available on Tuesday or Thursday 12/17 or 12/19. What would be your interest in a meeting (party?). Ideas & suggestions for agenda-speaker-entertainment? Season's Greetings to all, Marc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMpyrGGeikzgqLB7pAQE2xwQAyVipF2GeVLQCW2MYhfnWt0RSMb+jiSAX G9ufnekOv2Y54lpXX0rctpbjQ81bCZx4rpWfEzhnogteKhqx/DBYEH/2WCShmZW/ kk2ahsLcep30sBm3c6T3P0tN1qyi3hYHYZCOpK5ptkI1OGjX9FtGDrWSdY5lyWBT RGIxqzpZtBw= =fFNa -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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RE: IQ and age
by jbugden＠smtplink.alis.ca 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

ichudov(a)algebra.com (Igor Chudov) wrote: >Would you dismiss strong correlations between IQ and success in life >and academia as something irrelevant? Remember: Correlation is not causation. In this as in many other correlations, unreported third factors can strongly affect the outcome. In England, Cyril Burt devised an IQ test given to English school children at age 11 in order to decide whether they should proceed through the trade school system or university system. Unsurprisingly, those with higher IQs at age 11 (whatever the reason) typically received better educations and greater monetary success in life. In France, you may find that rich parents correlate well to "success in life and academia" substantially because they achieve more frequent placement in polytechnical institutions which correspond to the best universities in the U.S. and Canada. Poorer students, independently of IQ, usually go to less capable institutions. In the U.S., the Graduate Management Admissions Test (GMAT) administered by ETS is often required for people applying for post-graduate studies. The obstensible reason is that it gives an indication of the probable ability of the applicant to succeed in the course. By ETS's own figures, the correlation is only 30% with successful completion of one year of studies and lower for full completion. There are higher correlations for other factors (incoming institution, age), yet the GMAT number is still mandatory. The draw of a single number is compelling. Did I mention that ETS is also a monopoly. Ciao, James If you can't measure it, it doesn't exist. "What hit him?" "I don't know, I didn't see."

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Re: Star Trek: First Contact
by Phillip M. Hallam-Baker 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>> Are any of the characters in the new Star Trek gay? >The bold guy who plays Captain Picard is very gay in real life. >(He probably hated all those love episodes with women :-) Actually the opposite is the case, he is a notorious womanizer. He played a gay man in the recent remake of La Cage aux Folles and made the point that he has also played Stjannus in "I Claudius" and nobody asked if he was a homicidal maniac. Yet more proof that nothing Dimitri says is relevant or interesting. Phill

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Issuers of E-money
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text Date: Thu, 28 Nov 96 01:31:21 +0100 To: dcsb(a)ai.mit.edu Subject: Issuers of E-money From: a9050756(a)unet.univie.ac.at (Mike Alexander) Sender: bounce-dcsb(a)ai.mit.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: a9050756(a)unet.univie.ac.at (Mike Alexander) I'd like to compile a current list of actual Internet-based E-money issuers and wich technology they are using; pls. mail me any additions to the list from the Cybercash homepage below. I will then post the complete list back here if it's long enough. (info on trials is OK also) THX American Heritage Bankcard Banque SOFINCO Barnett BayBanks Credit Corporation Boatmen's Credit Card Bank Busey Bank Chittenden Bank Compass Bank First Bank of Beverly Hills Bank of Hawaii First Bankcard Center First Hawaiian Bank First National Bank of Omaha First Union Corporation First USA Paymentech Humboldt Bank Huntington Bank Michigan National Bank National Bank of the Redwoods Norwest PNC Bank Silicon Valley Bank SouthTrust Bank Unified Merchant Services / Nationsbank U.S. Bank Vantage Services, Inc. Wells Fargo Bank Best Regards, Michael Alexander Doctoral Student at the University of Vienna -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.3i mQCNAzIhxYwAAAEEALtfkL/X6GuZpEECWnmkmbqqtGwNalb94Om82VUiBE8iU1OX 2e5WXQGsq1oManSqVQn3TpVo7VE9pMJr5vITAmkEA6szGRt5zbK5u/dIqhLnJnRE sVpiY61Xw6RvQKoXX7LSqOYSCqvIiY8GJ5gRpiKQNPZVuJRqbLipmU0fPqylAAUR tDFNaWNoYWVsIEYuIEFsZXhhbmRlciA8YTkwNTA3NTZAdW5ldC51bml2aWUuYWMu YXQ+iQCVAwUQMiHFjbipmU0fPqylAQGy4QP+LjB6lZXVYFZDpoVB7j8AGvkghSsr XicZapXPmsFX6xpt+S29EF4DGoDJIDq6VLJMZ2rQ1gFfEvvWzL7ekZ3orhLSpJoO WWRZF1MNZVWBNhzxBcdK2T6yrx4cBwQX7t299Ho0y1Go69VE9e3LN8YInIXoQYp5 bc4M0u16GqmV5eI= =5l49 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To unsubscribe from this list, send a letter to: Majordomo(a)ai.mit.edu In the body of the message, write: unsubscribe dcsb Or, to subscribe, write: subscribe dcsb If you have questions, write to me at Owner-DCSB(a)ai.mit.edu --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "The cost of anything is the foregone alternative" -- Walter Johnson The e$ Home Page: http://www.vmeng.com/rah/

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Re: IQ and age
by Clay Olbon II 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Have we had an influx of fuzzy-thinking liberals lately? Not that this is a bad thing, it is hard to argue with people who agree with you on everything :-) At 06:49 AM 11/28/96 -0600, Lurker wrote: >>I would. If you look at who has the oppertunities to go college you will >note that those who are good at taking tests (SAT, ACT, or IQ) are those >who get to go. You will also note that money also breeds success, or can >someone give me an argument for the fact that there are more rich kids >going to Harvard, Yale, Stanford, and the like than poor kids. (These >schools almost gaurentee success.) The ability to spell helps to gaurentee success as well. Seriously, you ignore the correlation between performance in college and standardized test scores. There is a reason these are used in admissions - they are actually pretty good predictors of the ability to perform college level work. >If you want to find a correlation look for it in money not tests. And if >you are insistant on finding it in tests, ask why the scores are as they >are (was the test written to the advantage of one group over another or can >one group buy the "A" with special courses which teach the skills needed to >score high.) Oh, I forgot. Only certain racial/ethnic groups are capable of understanding basic mathematical concepts. Of course, caucasians are one of these groups (since they consistently are outperformed by immigrants from other countries). I know it makes you feel good to believe that all that is wrong is caused by conspiracies led by the EVIL RICH in this country. I happen to feel better believing in the potential for any individual in this country to succeed through hard work. Clay ******************************************************* Clay Olbon olbon(a)ix.netcom.com engineer, programmer, statistitian, etc. **********************************************tanstaafl

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RE: Re: wealth and property rights
by jc105558＠spruce.hsu.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: MX%"dave(a)kachina.jetcafe.org" 22-NOV-1996 00:41:58.20 To: MX%"aba(a)dcs.ex.ac.uk" CC: MX%"freedom-knights(a)kachina.jetcafe.org",MX%"cypherpunks(a)toad.com" Subj: Re: wealth and property rights Return-Path: <cypherpunks-errors(a)toad.com> Received: from toad.com by spruce.HSU.EDU (MX V4.1 VAX) with SMTP; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 00:41:55 EST Received: (from majordom@localhost) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA04549 for cypherpunks-outgoing; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 18:36:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from kachina.jetcafe.org (jetcafe.org [207.155.21.2]) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA04544 for <cypherpunks(a)toad.com>; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 18:36:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([127.0.0.1]) by kachina.jetcafe.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA02028; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 18:35:51 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <199611220235.SAA02028(a)kachina.jetcafe.org> X-Authentication-Warning: kachina.jetcafe.org: Host [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Adam Back <aba(a)dcs.ex.ac.uk> CC: freedom-knights(a)kachina.jetcafe.org, cypherpunks(a)toad.com Subject: Re: wealth and property rights Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 18:35:49 -0800 From: Dave Hayes <dave(a)kachina.jetcafe.org> Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com Precedence: bulk > Btw, people of your mentality (communists/socialists) already make it > very difficult for me to accumulate, due to the exhorbitant tax rates > to support those who chose to blow their money as soon as they have > it I don't necessarily want to support "socialism" nor "capitalism". Both are extremes of a situation which does no one any good to exist. However, I would question the implication that "socialists" are responsible for the higher tax rates you currently experience. For example, I could make a strong case that you really have some clever "capitalists" who have learned how to express their "capitalism" quite effectively across the space of all people in a "country". 8-) ------ Dave Hayes - Altadena CA, USA - dave(a)jetcafe.org Freedom Knight of Usenet - http://www.jetcafe.org/~dave/usenet It is the wise bird who builds his nest in a tree.

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RE: Counterproductive Dorothy Denning Flames
by jbugden＠smtplink.alis.ca 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

mpd(a)netcom.com (Mike Duvos) wrote: >It is perhaps a point in Dr. Denning's favor that her most >vitriolic detractors can spell neither "Dorothy" nor "fascist". > >I must admit that I am at a loss to understand the heat which >Dorothy Denning generates on the Cypherpunks list It should not surprise you too much, as people have often vilified those they disagree with. The more you accept the other person as a human being, the more difficult it becomes to dismiss their view without first confronting the issues. It's easier to treat them as an idiot, and then their views becomes idiotic by association. I know all this, and still I do it. Ciao, James

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Re: Dorthy Denning is a boot-licking fasicist!!!
by Robin Whittle 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

William H. Geiger III <whgiii(a)amaranth.com> wrote: > Dorthy Denning is a boot-licking fasicist!!! > Dorthy Denning gave the most pro-government speech I have ever > heard. Is this clueless bitch on the government payroll?!! Spelling please! "Dorothy". She is a US academic. It may be emotionally satisfying to rail against (what for us may be evident as) the wickedness and stupidity of our opponents. I did not see the testimony, so I can't comment on it. However I believe that Dorothy Denning is motivated as much as many of us by the desire for a healthy society. The sharp difference in crypto policy can probably be explained by a differing understanding of: 1 - The likely behaviour of professional criminals, normal people, government officials and criminal government officials in the future with various forms of crypto system. 2 - Different levels of trust and fear regarding crime in general, big-time crime in particular and the use and abuse of law enforcement and other government powers. 3 - Probably other things too. I think that there are different personality types at work here. Adding to that is the tendency for governments to employ people who generally trust governments, their desire to perpetuate their former abilities to detect and deter crime and especially the problem of *groupthink*. Groupthink is the tendency for like minded individuals to reject uncomfortable notions, and so develop a seriously inadequate understanding of reality. JFK admitted they were stupid to commence the Bay of Pigs invasion. Clinton will probably say the same thing about crypto export controls. There is clear evidence that, being surrounded by like minded advisers, both presidents were the victims of groupthink. If we nod our heads to "Dorthy Denning is a boot-licking fasicist!!!" then we too are succumbing to groupthink. See: http://www.ozemail.com.au/~firstpr/crypto/oecd_dr.htm for Dorothy Denning's response to my challenge for justifying costs of key-escrow/recovery against the likely benefit in crime reduction. I don't think it is a very strong response, and while many on this list will know more about her than I do, her response does not strike me as the work of someone who is unintelligent, uninterested in the future of society or a fascist. The net result of various misunderstandings (such as Clinton and Co. must have about the freely available nature of strong crypto) may well be stupidity on a grand scale. There are personality types who lean away from privacy and towards dangerous levels of government control. I think this can be amplified by the circumstances in which these people work - and groupthink is a big part of that. oecd_dr.htm is a recent draft of some OECD crypto work, with my comments, especially concerning the likely behaviour of criminals communicating both with other criminals and with non-criminals. It also has some information on an essay by Irving L. Janis called "Group Think" which I recommend to everyone who is involved in policy debates. - Robin . Robin Whittle . . http://www.ozemail.com.au/~firstpr firstpr(a)ozemail.com.au . . 11 Miller St. Heidelberg Heights 3081 Melbourne Australia . . Ph +61-3-9459-2889 Fax +61-3-9458-1736 . . Consumer advocacy in telecommunications, especially privacy . . . . First Principles - Research and expression - music, . . music industry, telecommunications . . human factors in technology adoption. . . . Real World Interfaces - Hardware and software, especially . . for music .

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