December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: FCC & Internet phones
by tbyfield＠panix.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 12:47 PM 3/9/96, Mutant Rob wrote: >Yes... but the Internet is not like HAM radio. The FCC has no >jurisdiction outside the US, and it would cause various problems >for them to try to regulate the use of IPhone or how ISPs operate. Question of how practical enforcement would be haven't been big in a lot of the legislation we've seen coming out of various capitals, so I doubt the situation for bureaucratic rule-mongering would be much different. The WP article said that has ACTA has "asked the [FCC] to stop this kind of communications and study how to regulate it," probably--and not surprisingly --in that order. It looks like another case of trying to saddle ISPs with impossible enforcement burdens, though in this case one that a lot of ISPs might not mind so much, given the bandwidth that netphone usage eats up (cf. xs4all, I hear, has forbidden users to run CU-SeeMe). Q: Is it practically possible to find netphone traffic on a generic network at any level above the source and target addresses? Ted

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Re: TCP/IP Stego (was CU-SeeMe)
by JonWienke＠aol.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In a message dated 96-03-08 15:17:39 EST, you write: >The difference between the two methods is, as I said before, exactly >the same as the difference between TCP/IP and UUCP. Hiding info in >images or sound files works fine for "email" or file storage but has >no chance of being an interactive protocol, sometimes you need to >get things done in real-time. Haven't you ever heard of IPhone, Nautilus, or PGPfone? Jonathan Wienke

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Re: Square pegs in round holes, matchmaking, corporate mailservers
by Dimitris Tsapakidis 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Let's stick one thread this time. I lost track when the Subject header was changed. Twice! :-) The original definition of the problem: >>Bob must find out whether Alice has declared (commited) her interest >>in him, if and only if he has declared (commited) his interest in her. >>Before he does so, he can at most know that a girl is interested in >>him. Another description: Bob and Alice can have a date if they both >>commit to each other. If only one commits, nobody will ever find out >>about it. (PADGETT(a)hobbes.orl.mmc.com) wrote: >Instead of using a binary assymetric key, why not a triple ? (Just >because I do not know of any does not mean that one does not exist). >Given a triple (tertiary ?) function each individual would only need >their receive key and a "post office" transmit key. On sending a >message, it would be encrypted with a session key and the session key >encrypted with the post office key. You got me confused. Does this thing exist, or you would like it to exist? :-) Bill wrote: >If Bob wants to talk to Alice, he sends Trent B = g**b, marked >"For Alice", optionally anonymously. Trent calculates >X = B**t == g**bt, and sends it to Alice. Alice calculates >K = X**a == g**bat, calculates H = Hash(K) and posts it anonymously, >or sends it to Trent to post or mail to Bob. If Alice wants to talk >to Bob, she calculates A = g**a mod p, sends it to Trent, optionally >anonymously, marked "For Bob". Trent calculates Y = A**t == g**at , >and sends it to Bob. Bob calculates K' = Y**b == g**abt, calculates >H' = Hash(K') and notices that it's the same as the H he pulled off >the net earlier. Bob says "Oh, wow! Alice wants to talk to me!", >encrypts some lame drivel of a message M with key K'==K, and mails >it to Alice if he knows her address or posts it with Subject: H', >which Alice receives. on which Hal commented: >I don't think this satisfies the requirements. Once Bob calculates H' >and sees that it matches H, he knows that Alice likes him, but Alice >doesn't know that he likes her. The whole point of the protocol was to >be fair. Bob must only learn that Alice likes him if Alice is >guaranteed to learn that he likes her. Correct. I believe my hash_k is equivalent to your **t (which I thought as well, but preferred to use hash_k in my original description). Hence, my "mediated off-line" protocol can also be written as: - Bob, who likes Alice, sends [g**ab, pseudo(B)] to Trend who posts [g**abt, pseudo(B)]. Alice learns nothing at this point. - If she ever decides she likes Bob, she sends [g**ab, pseudo(A)] to Trend, who posts [g**abt, pseudo(A)]. So Bob and Alice notice g**abt, pseudo(B) and g**abt, pseudo(A) being posted so they know they have a match. Somebody who knows t can only find out who is interested in them. Nothing more. T could possibly be replaced by n T(i)'s each of whom has a secret key t(i). But this is another thread. Hal added: >The easiest formulation is pairwise: >Alice and Bob mutually engage in the calculation of "Alice loves Bob" >AND "Bob loves Alice". Each inputs his feelings as an input bit, and >the output will be true only if they have mutual feelings. >Each pair of potential lovers would then go through the protocol with ^^^^^^^^^^ >each other. Assuming we have a fair AND protocol, Alice cannot initiate it with Bob, because this would demontrate her interest. Solutions: 1) You can force all possible pairs to execute the protocol, as you said, but is not very practical. 2) Alice could initiate the protocol even if she is not interested, in order to "hide" the cases when she is genuinely interested. Not very practical, either. 3) My proposal (protocol 3 in my previous posting) is that Alice approaches Bob anonymously. But they can't execute the AND gate, because Bob doesn't know who she talks to. What they compare is: Alice's number: g**ab and Bob's number: g**bx where x is the girl he likes. >This problem is solved in "Multiparty Computations Ensuring Privacy of >Each Party's Input and Correctness of the Result", by Chaum, Damgard, >and van de Graaf, in the proceedings of the Crypto 87 conference. They >even discuss this application directly: "Note that this AND-gate >computation, where both parties want to hide their input from each >other, has a meaningful application: consider the situation where Alice >and Bob have just met, and each considers dating the other. Neither >wishes to lose face in the following sense: if Alice wants a date but >Bob doesn't, Alice does not want to let Bob know that she wanted the >date. And the same holds for Bob. In other words: if a party does not >want the date it does not find out the other party's decision." Thanks, I will have a look. This will only work if there is a law forcing newly met pairs of people to enter the protocol, as in (1) above, right? Dimitris -- Dimitris Tsapakidis PGP keyID: 735590D5 dimitrt(a)dcs.rhbnc.ac.uk MSc in Information Security, This space reserved Royal Holloway, University of London for future use. Origin: Thessaloniki, Macedonia, Hellas

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Re: U.S. State Dept criticizes Chinese net-censorship
by jf_avon＠citenet.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- "Paul S. Penrod" <furballs(a)netcom.com> wrote to Declan: >IF you hold to the premise that self-censorship is based in a >large part on witholding your natural inclination and/or reaction >, then yes the argument can be made that self-censorship occurs >all the time. However, I would submit that J.F.A. is correct and >that your position is but a subset of the original statement. One problem that arise in all of the discussion around this theme is that peoples have very different ideas of the terms "self- interest" and "selfishness". The collectivists and mystics have made us accept the basic premise that selfishness means "acting in a way harmfull to others". They just trained us to blank out the fact that, as rational animals who love life, our best inte- rest might very well coincide with the one of our neighboor. Man, after being a rational animal is also a social animal. There is plenty of crypto relevency in this discussion and it lies in the basic view of Man of the individuals in such discussion. Is Man an intrinsical blood thirsty beast that either kills or cry or is Man a rational animal that can enjoy life in a peaceful and constructive and exciting way? The one who have the first opinion wants more govt, more laws and GKE. The others wants freedom. JFA -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2i iQEVAwUBMUGA6MiycyXFit0NAQGlLQf8DxmsCoNvqlmbsvb87/IS5UsZOVFXgdG+ cdLSY9A0UDl7bCPtyKJ5V/kvA8VDiL5H4K/Le9yRD6pYcLWf5S9sHdMhM24odhqy 7/7lIK0ud1+4oD0SIfZyPNcSpJc0AWIMn6E6Xa2K/khtjl9qtKvS+byRyZumExrS p3ScxHPe2WJvR2wCN7lnrwzLoj8MA8+XaHomOa7pQme7z+YjmM76gi/8lzt9i+J7 tmGz39UfDQx8QAaq0NfVmUelmT80xsDxCmWU19lgdCoY2P8QGjR8pie/gZPdJiXl LtutVcefHb7cP9gKYXPHwxV4krM2urMhBM2cS469lwQqZY8VYN5NaQ== =SVWp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Public Key at http://w3.citenet.net/users/jf_avon Jean-Francois Avon <jf_avon(a)citenet.net> 2048 bits key ID:C58ADD0D 1996/03/01 fingerprint=52 96 45 E8 20 5A 8A 5E F8 7C C8 6F AE FE F8 91

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Re: Assassination Politics(tm) was V-chips, CC, and Motorcycle Helmets
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 01:45 PM 3/9/96 -0500, Jean-Francois Avon (JFA Technologies, QC, Canada) wrote: >>At 10:42 PM 3/8/96 -0800, Bill Frantz wrote: >>>(1) Assassination Politics (AP) will be most useful to a fired-up group of >>>people who want to silence a single person. Madeline Murray O'Hare comes >>>to mind. (She was a Texas atheist who challenged school prayer and won.) > >I quote this text as an example of an ongoing thought process in >the analysis of the AP scheme. A little statistical mechanics >would not hurt here. The above example shows *one* possible >interaction between two entities, each having their own charac- >teristics leading to a given inter- action. But in all theses >examples, the specific variables that is forgotten is the time >variable. > >What will be the *dynamic* characteristics of such a system. > - the above paragraph describe an interaction in a given > direction. > - what are the others interactions that could *speed up* the > above process > - what are the others interactions that could *slow down* the > above process >Any analysis of the problem that blanks out the >probability of occurence (which happens in the time domain) of >each partial reaction cannot describe the outcome of the scheme. Ever since I started publicizing my "Assassination Politics" idea, I've noticed that self-selected opponents of this idea frequently invent these hypothetical scenarios to try to criticize it. Now, I can't deny that any given scenario can happen, but I respond that I don't believe that it would occur very frequently, and I usually give reasons why. I don't normally get any kind of challenge to this: They've shot their wad, so to speak. >Proponents of such a scheme should stick a bit more to crypto... Well, I agree, but keep in mind that the text you quoted above was apparently written by a critic, not a proponent. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com Klaatu Burada Nikto -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMUH8TPqHVDBboB2dAQG68QP/Uzlblek07Fihu73pDWw/Tf50QK92x4hY j6qeP0lgnFjn4Y2k3ELYv4DbxpJi5vJM4Z/7CIZZaWJnHSeoT9QBF9D3GG88N/5q OjGN1Wwe3b4wHmuaEPen5CWEUfAFFE51zdlBknjYWUBqBKOsZ9lfqoMCKGysqshR gW9UH9zicsA= =qubI -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Why the phone companies are going after Internet phones?
by E. ALLEN SMITH 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I suspect that the below bit of information may explain why the phone companies are going after regulation of the Internet phone market. -Allen ----------------- Reuters New Media [...] _ Friday March 8 6:04 PM EST _ Firms to Offer Computer to Telephone System [...] NEW YORK (Reuter) - Two New Jersey companies said Friday they have developed technology that will allow voice conversations via the Internet between users of computers and ordinary telephones. The two companies, VocalTec Inc. of Northvale, and Dialogic Corp. of Parsippany, said they expect the system to be available in the next few months. The company said the computer-to-telephone connection, known as the Internet Phone Telephony Gateway, will allow computer users to place calls to normal local, long-distance or international telephone users. Internet-based phone communication presents a low-cost alternative to traditional telephone communications handled by local and long-distance carriers. It enables callers to combine the low cost of Internet connections, the convenience of initiating calls from either PCs or telephones, and the ability to communicate with anybody with a telephone via the public switched telephone network. However, the Internet poses technical problems such as variable voice quality and momentary speaking delays that preclude, at least for now, any widespread replacement of existing phone networks by Internet telephone communications. VocalTec chairman Elon Ganor said the software provides the conversational quality of a good cellular phone connection, but the quality may vary depending on the sophistication of the Internet access company providing the local connections. He said the Internet telephone gateway is expected to be available as a complete system in the second quarter of this year. [...] The product will be available to third party product developers to incorporate into their own products. Ganor said the products will be sold through Dialogic and Vocaltec's existing networks of resellers, system integrators and direct channels. VocalTec said the Internet Phone Telephony Gateway will enable new applications that use the Internet as a low-cost network for computer-to-telephone and phone-to-phone calls. Calls to wireline and cellular phones are possible. The system is comprised of a PC running Windows 95 and the VocalTec gateway software and a Dialogic computer telephone adapter card and linked to the telephone network and the Internet through a 28.8 kilobit or faster modem connection. The new software complements the company's existing Internet telephone software, which currently can only connect one personal computer user to another. ``The availability of the Internet as an open, global information network has generated considerable interest from our customers,'' said Bob Heymann, vice president of business development at Dialogic. ``The Internet Telephony Gateway will enable (resellers) and systems integrators to offer innovative applications such as international 'hop off' and Internet-based customer service,'' he said. Dialogic is a leading maker of add-on computer hardware circuit boards that enable computers to function as telephones. [...] VocalTec is headquartered in Herzliya, Israel and has U.S. offices in Northvale, N.J. It went public Feb. 7, 1996.

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frequency of remailer use?
by Michael Froomkin 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I would be very grateful for pointers to data concerning the number of messages that pass through remailers. (Not anon.penet.fi -- real remailers.) I am currently in a conversation with a journalist who should know better, but claims that secure anonymous remailers are never used by anyone -- just a curiosity. A. Michael Froomkin | +1 (305) 284-4285; +1 (305) 284-6506 (fax) Associate Professor of Law | U. Miami School of Law | froomkin(a)law.miami.edu P.O. Box 248087 | http://www.law.miami.edu/~froomkin Coral Gables, FL 33124 USA | It's warm here.

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Re: Remailer Security
by E. ALLEN SMITH 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: jrochkin(a)cs.oberlin.edu (Jonathan Rochkind) >Um, there's no reason why your remailer's account needs to be logged into >interactively, is there? Seems like remailer ops should disable login to >remailer accounts, putting '*' into the password field in /etc/passwd, or >however unix lets you disable login (I know it does). This depends on the setup at the remailer machine. If I'm operating a remailer off of a rented account on a commercial machine, how am I going to maintain the remailer when it crashes if I can't get into that account? This would work to some degree if the machine in question had the remailer program in a publically-accessible account, and all the remailer account was doing was A. acting as a forwarding account and B. containing info like the private key of the remailer. But it could still go wrong in a way such that you'd need to get into the account (or have root access, which is equivalent from what I know of the subject). -Allen

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Virtual Magistrate Project
by E. ALLEN SMITH 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Unfortunately, the below system seems a bit civil liberties-unfriendly in some ways (deeming laws against "obscenity" ever to be justified, for instance). On the other hand, it's an arbitration mechanism - which should have competitors and different contracts using different arbitratiors. Of course, Phil Agre tends to want the "whole community" involved with stuff instead of, as is proper in most cases, the people involved. Progressive liberals... sigh. -Allen From: IN%"rre(a)weber.ucsd.edu" 5-MAR-1996 03:35:20.71 [Is this scheme too naive to work? Well, if we want cyberspace to be self-governing then surely we need something like this. What's important, I think, is legitimacy. That is, people should regard it as having the moral stature to actually make judgements and have them stick. Certainly *I* think that Bob Gellman is a good person to have in charge of a project like this. But it's the whole community's opinions that matter, not just mine. Should we have elections on the net for jobs like this? Or what?] =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= This message was forwarded through the Red Rock Eater News Service (RRE). Send any replies to the original author, listed in the From: field below. You are welcome to send the message along to others but please do not use the "redirect" command. For information on RRE, including instructions for (un)subscribing, send an empty message to rre-help(a)weber.ucsd.edu =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 10:18:04 -0500 (EST) From: Paul Evan Peters <paul(a)cni.org> To: Multiple recipients of list <cni-announce(a)cni.org> Subject: Announcement of the Virtual Magistrate Project Dear cni-announce subscribers: Attached please find a press release announcing the establishment of the Virtual Magistrate Project. CNI is facilitating discussion of this project, and I encourage your attention to it. Let me know if you have any observations or suggestions that you would like me to pass on the project's organizers. Best, Paul Paul Evan Peters Executive Director Coalition for Networked Information 21 Dupont Circle Washington, DC 20036 Voice: 202-296-5098 Fax: 202-872-0884 Internet: paul(a)cni.org URL: ftp://ftp.cni.org/ URL: gopher://gopher.cni.org:70/ URL: http://www.cni.org/CNI.homepage.html PRESS RELEASE PRESS RELEASE PRESS RELEASE PRESS RELEASE For Immediate Release, March 4, 1996 Virtual Magistrate Established for the Internet Voluntary Dispute Resolution for Network Conflicts A newly established Virtual Magistrate Project will assist in the rapid, initial resolution of computer network disputes. The specialized system of online arbitration and fact-finding was announced by Timothy C. Leixner, Chairman of the Board of the National Center for Automated Information Research (NCAIR) which is funding the pilot project. The Fellows of the Cyberspace Law Institute helped in the development of the project. "Millions of people around the world communicate and conduct business on computer networks," said Mr. Leixner in announcing the project. "Disputes are inevitable, and existing courts can be too slow, too cumbersome, and too local to have global effect. We need to explore new forms of dispute resolution, provide timely relief, and develop appropriate sanctions that are suitable for worldwide computer networks. That is the purpose of the Virtual Magistrate Project." A pool of neutral arbitrators with experience in the law and in the use of computer networks will serve as the Virtual Magistrates. The magistrates (who do not have to be lawyers) will be selected jointly by the American Arbitration Association and the Cyberspace Law Institute, and will undergo training in arbitration techniques. Complaints will be accepted through either through electronic mail or through a form on the Virtual Magistrate's World Wide Web site. Internet users, system operators, and others affected by network messages, postings, and files may be the source of complaints. Initially, the Virtual Magistrate will decide whether it would be reasonable for a system operator to delete or otherwise restrict access to a challenged message, posting, or file. Objections may be based on copyright or trademark infringement, misappropriation of trade secrets, defamation, fraud, deceptive trade practices, inappropriate (obscene, lewd, or otherwise violative of local system rules) materials, invasion of privacy, and other wrongful content. At a later date, the Virtual Magistrate may accept complaints about other network- related activities. The need for a fast and accessible resolution of disputes is highlighted by ongoing litigation involving Netcom On-Line Communications Services and the Church of Scientology. The Church alleged that postings made by a Netcom user infringed on the Church's copyrights. The case is before federal district court, and a lengthy proceeding is expected. Arbitration though the Virtual Magistrate Project might have been able to offer an independent assessment of whether there was infringement. Prompt identification of reasonable responses for system operators would clearly be beneficial to all. Use of the Virtual Magistrate for immediate resolution of disputes would not preclude traditional litigation. An impartial magistrate will be assigned to each complaint. Proceedings will normally take place through electronic mail. The goal is to reach a decision within 72 hours (three business days) whenever possible. Information on cases decided by the Virtual Magistrate will be publicly available at a World Wide Web site maintained by the Villanova Center for Information Law and Policy at <http://vmag.law.vill.edu:8080/>. Other documentation for the Project is available at the same Web site. David Johnson, Co-Director of the Cyberspace Law Institute said: "The Virtual Magistrate Project is not a solution to all network problems. Some matters will inevitably end up in traditional courts. If the Virtual Magistrate Project can contribute to the swift, inexpensive, and fair resolution of some disputes, then it will be a success." Paul Evan Peters, Executive Director of the Coalition for Networked Information, a diverse partnership of over two hundred institutions and organizations promoting the scholarly and intellectually productive uses of the Internet commented: "This project promises an extremely important and much needed alternative to legislation, contract negotiation, and litigation for addressing the uncertainties that we should all face together in the rapidly evolving networked resource and service environment." The Virtual Magistrate Project is a pilot project. Adjustments to the rules and procedures will be made based on experience. The Project will be evaluated by the participants at a conference to be convened by NCAIR and CLI in May 1996, and decisions will be made about finding a more permanent structure and funding. NCAIR has made $75,000 available for the operation of the pilot. NCAIR is a non-profit, educational corporation actively engaged in the study and application of technology to the to the legal and accounting professions since 1966. The American Arbitration Association (AAA) is a public-service, not-for-profit organization offering a broad range of dispute resolution services to corporations, attorneys, insurers, individuals, trade associations, unions, consumers, and all levels of government. AAA has been an international focal point for private dispute resolution since arbitration became an acceptable alternative to courts in the 1920s. George Friedman, Senior Vice President of AAA said: "Given the increasing inaccessibility of the court system and the explosive growth of online technology, it is quite appropriate that an effort would be made to develop a means of resolving disputes simply and quickly online. The American Arbitration Association is delighted to be a founding partner of the Virtual Magistrate Project, which will undoubtedly pave new ground in advancing alternative dispute resolution." The Villanova Center for Information Law and Policy will maintain a public online repository of Virtual Magistrate complaints, decisions, and documents. The Villanova Center will also maintain electronic discussion groups for magistrates, participants, and other interested parties, and it will work jointly with AAA to prepare training materials. The Villanova Center is at Villanova University School of Law, near Philadelphia. Contacts: Virtual Magistrate Project, Robert Gellman, Executive Director, 202-543-7923, rgellman(a)cais.com Cyberspace Law Institute, David R. Johnson, 202-496- 9523, djohns06(a)counsel.com; David Post, 202-364-5010, dpostn00(a)counsel.com Villanova Center for Information Law and Policy, Henry H. Perritt, Jr., Professor of Law, 610-519-7078, perritt(a)law.vill.edu National Center for Automated Information Research: Timothy C. Leixner, Chairman of the Board, 954-462-3300 emoleixner(a)aol.com American Arbitration Association: George Friedman, Senior Vice President, 212-484-4120, usadrghf(a)arb.com Electronic Addresses for the Virtual Magistrate Project VM Web Page: http://vmag.law.vill.edu:8080/ AAA Web Page http://www.adr.com Complaints: vmag(a)mail.law.vill.edu Help: vmag-question(a)mail.law.vill.edu vmag-help(a)mail.law.vill.edu VM Operations: vmag-admin(a)mail.law.vill.edu vmag-owner(a)mail.law.vill.edu AAA Administrator: vmag-aaa(a)mail.law.vill.edu VM Executive Director: rgellman(a)cais.com

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Re: News on RSA vs. Cylink Injunctions and Patents
by jamesd＠echeque.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 05:31 PM 3/8/96 -0500, Adam Shostack wrote: > Is RSA now saying that the original Diffie-Hellman patent > (#4,200,770) is not valid? I'm curious, because in the past, as I > understand things, RSA has said that the DH patent covers El Gamal. > If RSA no longer considers DH to be a valid patent, that would mean El > Gamal is not patent encumbered. That is what this court decision says: If Diffie-Hellman does not cover RSA, then it does not cover El Gamal either. --------------------------------------------------------------------- | We have the right to defend ourselves | http://www.jim.com/jamesd/ and our property, because of the kind | of animals that we are. True law | James A. Donald derives from this right, not from the | arbitrary power of the state. | jamesd(a)echeque.com

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