December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: properties of FV
by Andrew Lowenstern 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> > That would make this counterparty pseudonymity, not anonymity. > > The merchant, while not knowing the true identity of his clients, > > is still able to correlate the transactions of individual accounts > > (and must be able to under FV's policies). A malicious merchant, > > for instance, could recognize that a particular account is more > > interested in certain types of information and charge accordingly. > > Good point. I stand corrected, at least as far as the terminology > is concerned. However, as far as the particular malicious-merchant > scenario is concerned, I must say I'd be skeptical about any merchant > who didn't tell me the price up front, *before* he asked me for my > account-id... -- Nathaniel Of course, but what if you bought something from a Web server, revealing your account-id to the server. A smart server could adjust the prices on pages that haven't been retrieved yet. I don't know if this is necessarily possible with hhtp (i.e. does your client always use the same return port number for requests during a given instance of the client? <bear with me, I don't know the real details of http>), but you get the idea. Worse, linkability of transactions also allows the merchant to do 'payment traffic analysis' in an attempt to determine the real identities of it's clients. Many merchants can get together and compare transaction logs as well... These 'attacks' are a feature of any payment system that has only counter party pseudonymity (as opposed to anonymity), not just First Virtual... andrew

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FV fine print
by eric＠remailer.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In looking over the FV docs, I found the following interesting tidbit. ---------------------- * YOU shall retain computer data of all sales for at least three years from the date of the transaction. In the event you are not able to store such information, you may contact infohaus-info(a)fv.com to make storage arrangements. ---------------------- Interpretation is left to the reader. Eric

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Question for remailer operators
by dmandl＠panix.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

For the anon remailer operators out there: I'm looking for figures on the average number of messages that pass through the different remailers a day (or week, or whatever). This is for an article I'm working on to be published in a local paper here in NYC. I'd appreciate any numbers I can get from any of you. Estimates are fine if you don't have exact figures. (Sorry to spam the list like this. It's just that I'm sure my list of remailers is very out of date, and even if it's not, I wouldn't know how to reach the operators of most of them.) Many thanks. --Dave. -- Dave Mandl dmandl(a)panix.com

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Re: Less Flaming, More Civility
by amanda＠intercon.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> C'punks, when this list started we were a bunch of idealistic privacy > freaks. Look who's on the list now: the developers of cutting edge Internet > software. The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive :). And from this point of view, I have to say that for all of my complaints about the specifics of various things Netscape has put forth, I cannot fault them for trying to improve the status quo. One thing that everyone has in common here is that we all believe that the issues we discuss are important, and that it's worth trying to solve the problems. This is in part, I think, why tempers flare from time to time--I know this was true in my case. Amanda Walker InterCon Systems Corporation

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Re: PGP 2.7
by NetSurfer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Thu, 15 Dec 1994, DNA wrote: > I keep seeing pgp 2.7 in public key & sig blocks. > > Where do we get it? Viacrypt. It is the commercial version of 2.6.x - -NetSurfer #include <standard.disclaimer> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> == = = |James D. Wilson |V.PGP 2.7: 512/E12FCD 1994/03/17 > " " o " |P. O. Box 15432 | finger for full PGP key > " " / \ " |Honolulu, HI 96830 |====================================> \" "/ G \" |Serendipitous Solutions| Also NetSurfer(a)sersol.com > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - --- [This message has been signed by an auto-signing service. A valid signature means only that it has been received at the address corresponding to the signature and forwarded.] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Gratis auto-signing service iQBFAwUBLvB4nyoZzwIn1bdtAQFBKgF8Cpy4syrgzPe7Q4vQ7elW/7gvcK+3rfwJ byzKrS8TF7rwL1eLiVZfW+qolOyMB2TG =svxJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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voice over SLIP?
by erc＠khijol.xmission.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

This might be somewhat off-topic, but could someone send me a list of ftp'able software for doing voice over SLIP? I'd prefer linux-based software, but DOS-based would work, too... Thanks very much! -- Ed Carp, N7EKG Ed.Carp(a)linux.org, ecarp(a)netcom.com Finger ecarp(a)netcom.com for PGP 2.5 public key an88744(a)anon.penet.fi ** PGP encrypted email preferred! ** "What's the use of distant travel if only to discover - you're homeless in your heart." --Basia, "Yearning"

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Re: FV fine print
by Nathaniel Borenstein 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Excerpts from fv: 15-Dec-94 FV fine print Eric Hughes(a)remailer.net (403) > * YOU shall retain computer data of all sales for at least > three years from the date of the transaction. In the event > you are not able to store such information, you may contact > infohaus-info(a)fv.com to make storage arrangements. > Interpretation is left to the reader. FYI, this is a direct carryover from the standard terms & conditions of a Visa/MasterCard merchant account. Basically, this is a legal necessity to process inquiries from the cardholder's issuing bank, etc. You'll note that we don't say you have to provide the information to us, merely that you have to keep it -- that way, if there's a court action requiring us to provide the information, we can point out that you are required to have the information. If you haven't kept it, you won't have nearly as much of a problem with us as with the government. In any event, the most we can do is say, "oh, you violated our terms and conditions, you can't be an FV seller any more." What we're doing here, in essence, is allowing ANYONE to function as a Visa/MC merchant, with the addition of the 90 day hold and a few other things. In order to do that, our terms and conditions have to ensure that you comply with the Visa/MC terms and conditions, that's all. -- Nathaniel

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Re: FV & PGP (was Re: First Virtual email security)
by Nathaniel Borenstein 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Excerpts from fv: 15-Dec-94 Re: FV & PGP (was Re: First.. NetSurfer(a)gold.chem.hawa (1237*) > Without cryptography how exactly are you going to protect my credit card > numbers from sniffer-snoopers and crackers? Either you will send the > credit card text in the clear, or it will be encrypted somehow. Or perhaps > you will have customers call you over the phone to give you their credit > card info? We NEVER put your credit card number on the Internet. It is entered ONCE via telephone, and after that it is never needed directly -- people sell you things using your FV account-id, which does not have the same security properties as a credit card number. For more information, please send mail to info(a)fv.com or check out our web pages at http://www.fv.com. - --- [This message has been signed by an auto-signing service. A valid signature means only that it has been received at the address corresponding to the signature and forwarded.] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Gratis auto-signing service iQBFAwUBLvCB4CoZzwIn1bdtAQHLuAGAzvgG7jYAqpyHC/HD2NCmN3DkxnCeGT6J 3opxp30Uyo0T/5me04hlzvYe4A6IEDbA =yQOr -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: FV & PGP (was Re: First Virtual email security)
by NetSurfer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Thu, 15 Dec 1994 nsb(a)nsb.fv.com wrote: > Moreover, if we supported PGP today, we might indirectly lend > credibility to what we perceive as the incorrect belief that > cryptography is NECESSARY for commerce. Because we see cryptography as > helpful, but not necessary, we aren't going to support PGP right away, > but will probably add such support when a large enough portion of our > customer base wants it and can make use of it. Without cryptography how exactly are you going to protect my credit card numbers from sniffer-snoopers and crackers? Either you will send the credit card text in the clear, or it will be encrypted somehow. Or perhaps you will have customers call you over the phone to give you their credit card info? - -NetSurfer #include <standard.disclaimer> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> == = = |James D. Wilson |V.PGP 2.7: 512/E12FCD 1994/03/17 > " " o " |P. O. Box 15432 | finger for full PGP key > " " / \ " |Honolulu, HI 96830 |====================================> \" "/ G \" |Serendipitous Solutions| Also NetSurfer(a)sersol.com > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - --- [This message has been signed by an auto-signing service. A valid signature means only that it has been received at the address corresponding to the signature and forwarded.] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Gratis auto-signing service iQBFAwUBLvB6FCoZzwIn1bdtAQE9PAF/W2kx2n8l+Qz9Z/51MVQqjjPgGPdQRK8p WFPmh42CywQKiUjjg2qhqPrmzzz6V91r =6zTt -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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1984 shirt
by 'Kasey Uthurusamy' 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> > Hi, > > Do you know where I could order 2 XXL shirts? These are the ones that > say '1984 ....we're behind schedule'... > > Thanks! :) > > Kurgan > -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- _O_ "Ah...the KURGAN...he kurgan(a)gnu.ai.mit.edu \/\ /\/=<---- is the strongest of the punisher(a)ccwf.cc.utexas.edu * immortals...." kaseyu(a)acad.stedwards.edu / \ _/ |_ "INVICTUS MANEO" -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

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