December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Sign-or-delay
by wcs＠anchor.ho.att.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Eric Hughes writes > I am still considering the "sign-or-delay" proposal for the toad.com > server, that is, sign your articles to the list or they'll be delayed > and eventually rejected. Well, it's easy to require people to include PGP signatures. However, for some people, it's difficult to do signatures in a secure and also convenient fashion across a mix of mailers; Tim's netcom+Mac example, or anyone using an insecure system. My laptop where I get my work-related mail really can't handle the volume of mail I get from cypherpunks; I'm using it as a terminal to talk to a netblazer to telnet to a Sun where I still have an account several gateways away, on which I haven't been root for over a year... Sure, I forward some of the interesting mail to the not-very-diskful laptop, and could wait for it to arrive and PGP-sign my replies, which will delay my articles anyway. On the other hand, if I sign them here, half of AT&T could probably grab the passphrase with a sniffer, so it's not something I'd trust my real keys to. Similarly, I wouldn't put real keys on netcom or other mass service provider. On the other hand, how carefully were you planning to make your system check signatures - does toad.com have the spare cycles to validate them all, or are you really going for syntax only? Thanks; Bill -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 3.2beta AjtHiSiSnOtAsIgNaaTuretHiSiSnOtAsIgNaaTuretHiSiSnOtAsIgNaaTurexZ ITsBoGustHiSiSnOtAsIgNaaTuretHiSiSnOtAsIgNaaTuretHiSiSnOtAsIgfoo ReAlLyTrUsTmetHiSiSnOtAsIgNaaTureLouisFreehWasHeretHiSiSnOtAsIgN tAsIgNaaT -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

3 2

Fighting Censorship at Canadian Universities
by werewolf＠io.org 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Used to be that Universities were bastions of free thought and discussion. Guess not nowadays, if this E-Mail to me earlier today is any indication: - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - From kyleh(a)cs.mun.ca Wed Nov 30 01:01:19 1994 Date: Wed, 30 Nov 1994 00:47:41 -0330 From: Kyle Douglas Hearfield <kyleh(a)cs.mun.ca> Subject: interested in PGP To: werewolf(a)io.org Mark, I am a Student at Memorial University of Newfoundland, and I have recently been censored and had my postings to newsgroups aborted. I received a message from our system administrator that the messages(of a political nature) were not appropriate. I was wondering if I could use PGP to get past them? I have read some about PGP, but I am still kind of in the dark as to how it works and what it can do. Any info you could provide me would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance, - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Maybe he was posting some stuff that contravened university policy...shrug. But with the recent events at McGill University in Montreal, I'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt. The first step was to provide him with the instructions to the the xs4all remailer. If he figures that is what he needs (more importantly....if he isn't scared off!) then I'll give him the list of the other remailers and mail him a copy of PGP. Who knows? Maybe all he needs is anon.penet.fi :> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBLtwbn6+YbMzawbu5AQHFUwP8CbzooBrhWKVHRaRIBn55ha3mYWIO62lZ 6D09DJvc9YAnwxbSVcE1X8MjNuR9XbRRrJfQMI8lnSWt8pr13FsI8cjHQqjzS9yk HXMYSKy7mdnerHaZSTK0RZdFrRHST6a5qVdNw4ffZsjO4WM/02nN/u9n5ywgsu4C dbCQlp9EMPQ= =mnSN -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

1 0

Is Pr0duct Cypher still around?
by lcottrell＠popmail.ucsd.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Having posted that massive spam asking Pr0duct Cypher for some information, it occurs to me to ask if he has been heard from lately. Has anyone seen anything from him lately? -------------------------------------------------- Lance Cottrell who does not speak for CASS/UCSD loki(a)nately.ucsd.edu PGP 2.6 key available by finger or server. Encrypted mail welcome. Home page http://nately.ucsd.edu/~loki/ Home of "chain" the remailer chaining script. For anon remailer info, mail remailer(a)nately.ucsd.edu Subject: remailer-help "Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra. Suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night the ice weasels come." --Nietzsche

1 0

We are ALL guests (except Eric)
by skaplin＠skypoint.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- With the recent furor over the possibility of mandatory key signing on this list, I think we all are forgetting something. We are all guests here. Eric is our host. I've seen proposals for voting on the issue, I've seen posts saying "I'm not going to do it, wah wah wah." This list is analogous to Eric's home. We are his guests. If a host asks his guests to do something he or she has two choices, do it or leave. If someone walked into my house and I asked them to do something and they said: "Lets vote on it," they would be out the door quicker than a 'toon on a banana peel. Eric has been a gentleman about this. He is not asking those who do not wish to comply to leave. This is Eric's house and I think we need to play by his rules while we are here. One caveat for Eric though, hosts with stringent rules are usually very lonely. ============================================================================== A government is the only know vessel that leaks from the top. --James Reston-- ============================================================================== skaplin(a)skypoint.com | "...vidi vici veni" - Overheard | outside a Roman brothel. PGP encrypted mail is accepted and | preferred. | Change is the only constant in the | Universe..."Four quarters, please." E-mail key(a)four11.com for PGP Key or | Finger skaplin(a)mirage.skypoint.com | Smile!! Big brother is watching. ============================================================================== -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBLtwymApnimeWAf3FAQGOkQQAgK6OrqyifMk3aICiLdtjHWILxUyAyTWx HyEXgfNdo3VXKALOCpON3sbtgiYlopFU9PyqQY4JGhievAfElEFOgUzfcOcNutKR vLeT73zsvYl0zJPk6TkKhBwLymykHcBq5VtM8qLFustkEOynlVNHanBZlCQEj1sC HKYfjJbX65E= =5hb+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

9 31

Re: We are ALL guests (except Eric)
by dmandl＠bear.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> From: <jamesd(a)netcom.com> > > If you claim that Eric does not own the list then you claim that it > is unjust for him to change the rules without consent. > > If I claim he owns the list then I claim that it perfectly proper > for him to change the rules without consent, regardless of whether > or not he has a good, or even sane, reason. [...] So what's the point? Fortunately, Eric and not you is running the list, and he's a reasonable man. Yeah, sure, according to the rules of PPL or Roman Law or mathematics or whatever, he has every right to take unilateral action and do whatever he wants to with the list. OK, he's the "owner," so? This is the real world, not an algebra lesson: the whole reason this discussion is happening is that Eric realizes there are a few hundred friends (damn, I should have said "comrades") involved here and he would like to discuss the issue. This "ownership" thread seems like a gratuitous exercise in abstract propertarian philosophy. Man, some people actually seem EAGER to have Eric make some drastic unilateral move just so they can bleat "Yes sir, he's the owner, that's his right! Yes sir, he's the owner, that's his right!" and have their worldview sanctioned. Yes, that IS his right, but he's obviously too nice a guy to just do it tomorrow morning without discussing it first and then inform us all of the new status of his "property." So why don't we just discuss his proposal? I agree with Tim that effortless encryption/signing of email is still a dream for most of us. I don't think there should be any "punishment" for not signing (not even having the non-signer's mail delayed). I do think signing should be encouraged. I think that at some time in the future (a year?) Eric's proposal may be reasonable, but I don't think it's time yet. --Dave.

2 1

The Market for Crypto--In Real Life
by gnu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tim May ranted: > In any case, the notion that a bunch of us--students, dabblers, > activists, engineers, etc.--can somehow create a finished product, or > a company, as some folks periodically try to argue for ("Let's do a > company!"), is not too likely. As Heinlein said, babies aren't too likely either. I'm immediately looking for a contractor to work on documentation for Cygnus Network Security, the Kerberos software. Our goal is to create a finished product. A bunch of us dabblers already created the company and got it to make money. If you're interested, send me mail at gnu(a)cygnus.com and show me why you'd be good at it and how soon you're available. The writer who started the job ended up unable to finish it for personal reasons. It'll help a lot to be in Boston or SF Bay Area since our Kerberos engineers who can explain what to write are there. I'm also "likely to" eventually need another crypto programmer, contract or full time. For this we don't have a burning need yet, but talk to me if you might come available, and stay in touch. General programming wizardry on some platform is the basic requirement. Not mastery, not skill, not a degree. Wizardry -- exceptional skill. Interest and expertise in crypto technology, markets, and politics are desirable. Interest and expertise in the guts of compiler tools is also desirable, since that's our other main business, and people swap back and forth at times. Yes, it's a job posting. I just couldn't resist this followup to Tim. And I suspect some of you might actually care to read job postings for crypto jobs here; I would. John -- John Gilmore gnu(a)toad.com -- gnu(a)cygnus.com -- gnu(a)eff.org Can we talk in private? Chairman, Crypto Committee Not if the FBI and NSA have their way. Electronic Frontier Foundation Board Let's sell free crypto software. Product Manager, Cygnus Network Security

1 0

The pain of encrypting email
by dmandl＠bear.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> Jonathan Rochkind wrote: > > > Because premail makes it incredibly easy to use PGP on a unix box. "Incredibly easy" is an exaggeration, since the docs themselves say that you need root privileges to install premail properly. The alternative is using premail in stand-alone mode, i.e., entering your mail line-by-line a la the generic mail program! Now, I think premail is beautiful, but the bottom line is that at this point it's not something I can actually use, like most email-encrypting tools I hear about, alas. --Dave.

1 0

Economist's Dash for E-cash
by rishab＠dxm.ernet.in 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I've been away for a couple of days so I don't know if this has come up already, but... The Economist has proven yet again my firm belief that it's the most wired magazine around. In a special report on e-cash in the latest issue, it presents a lucid description of the pros and cons of different digicash, including Chaum. It then goes on to discuss in detail how e-cash could work, how it would be backed by real money and therefore not earn interest, how governments might get worried by the development of implicit currency markets beyond their control, how eventually e-cash might become an independent currency with no 'real' value, hinting at my outline of 'cooking-pot' markets in Electric Dreams #37. ObHeeHee: an article on the anti-DWEM backlash against Shakespeare quotes Gary Taylor, editor of the Oxford Shakespeare, as saying that "Shakespeare helped murder" Nicole Simpson. Why? The play Othello "makes a wife-murderer not only tragic but also, pervesely, heroic." ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rishab Aiyer Ghosh "Clean the air! clean the sky! wash the wind! rishab(a)dxm.ernet.in take stone from stone and wash them..." rishab(a)arbornet.org Voice/Fax/Data +91 11 6853410 Voicemail +91 11 3760335 H 34C Saket, New Delhi 110017, INDIA

1 0

Re: PGP hook for Eudora?
by jrochkin＠cs.oberlin.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 9:17 AM 11/30/94, dmandl(a)bear.com wrote: >I keep hearing about PGP hooks for (Mac) Eudora, but a casual search >of at least five advertised ftp sites has turned up nothing. Can >someone post an address where this stuff can definitely be found? There is a bunch of applescript PGP stuff, in various states of done-ness, at ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/xenon. I'm not quite sure what the status of this stuff is, or if it's actually final release software, or just betas and such, because xenon seems to have disappeared for an indefinite period of time and isn't answering email. You want the MacPGPKit Installer, and the Eudora/PGP scripts (I'm not sure about the exact name for the Eudora scripts). In my own experience, the Eudora scripts work really well and are quite stable, but the more general purpose MacPGPKit has some problems and isn't so stable.

1 0

Re: The Market for Crypto--A Curmudgeon's View
by shamrock＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Sandy wrote: > >Here's my suggestion. Eric should unilaterally impose his first >step, i.e., all unsigned messages and messages with spoofed >signatures will henceforth be flagged as such. Let's see what >effect, if any, that has on the way people post their messages. >After the protocol has been in effect for some time, we can >re-open the topic for further discussion. It seems we have pretty much reached a consensus. Eric should implement a way to flag un signend posts. [Loved the various headers in Eric's post. They were real funny.] After this is implemented lets se how it works and see what else should be done. However, I agree that this is Eric's list and Eric's rules. If he decides that it would be a Good Thing to incentivise us Cypherpunks to use more crypto when posting to the list, he is free to do so with our without anyone's consent. -- Lucky Green <shamrock(a)netcom.com> PGP encrypted mail preferred. "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." <George Washington>

1 0