December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Key Server List Request
by jdblair＠nextsrv.cas.muohio.EDU 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Is there a list of all of the currently operational PGP Keyservers available? If so, I'd appreciate a copy. Thanks in advance, -john.

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AT&T phone logs
by Brad Dolan 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I've been told by someone I believe that the phone companies are ...uh... encouraged to keep call records for *at least* 3 years. bdolan(a)well.sf.ca.us

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CERT/Whitehouse/Clipper link - smoking gun...
by farber＠central.cis.upenn.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Posted-Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 12:28:53 -0500 Path: netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!demon!an- teallach.com!gtoal Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk From: gtoal(a)an-teallach.com (Graham Toal) Subject: CERT/Whitehouse/Clipper link - smoking gun... X-Fax: +44 31 662 4678 X-Organisation: An Teallach Limited Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 16:48:15 +0000 Sender: usenet(a)demon.co.uk Lines: 55 Apparently-To: farber(a)pcpond.cis.upenn.edu By God, I knew there was something fishy about that latest CERT release (the one that referred to things that happened last November and didn't actually say anything new, but somehow managed to hit the *WORLD* press extensively within 24 hours)... Well, here's the smoking gun... >From: CERT Advisory <cert-advisory-request(a)cert.org> >Date: Thu, 3 Feb 94 21:14:40 EST >To: cert-advisory(a)cert.org >Subject: CERT Advisory - Ongoing Network Monitoring Attacks >Organization: Computer Emergency Response Team : 412-268-7090 >============================================================================= >CA-94:01 CERT Advisory > February 3, 1994 > Ongoing Network Monitoring Attacks Note the date. The next day, we see this Whitehouse release: :THE WHITE HOUSE CONTACT: 202 156-7035 :OFFlCE OF THE PRESS SECRETARY :EMBARGOED UNTIL 3 PM (EST) FRIDAY, February 4, 1994 :STATEMENT OF THE PRESS SECRETARY :Information Infrastructure. A digital signature standard will enable :individuals to transact business electronically rather than having to :exchange signed paper contracts. The Administration has determined :that such technology should not be subject to private royalty :payments, and it will be taking steps to ensure that royalties are not :required for use of a digital signature. Had digital signatures been in :widespread use, the recent security problems with the Internet :would have been avoided. Note the reference to 'recent security problems with the Internet'. This is obviously referring to the highly publicised stories in the press *that day* which were engendered by the CERT report. Yet the whitehouse press release was written days before - see the 'embargoed until Feb 4th' warning at the top. So the Whitehouse had *prior knowlege* of the CERT release, and the fact that it would get extensive press coverage. I say CERT actively collaborated with the Whitehouse on the pro-clipper propoganda front, and I challenge them to deny it in a simple unequivocal statement. G PS The statement is also false: digital signatures would have no effect on network sniffing attacks; but it's just more FUD to strengthen the Whitehouse hand in a release that was buried in a flood of releases that day on Clipper.

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Digital Money, Sandy, Mark
by Scott Beaudreau 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Mark's wrote: > Sandy writes: > >I would like to start a new thread. I want to know what the > >people on this list intend to do with cryptography in the "real > >world." > >... > >My interest is more than academic. I am one of the Cypherpunks > >involved in creating a digital bank. > >Sandy - > > In the real world there are already secret banks. There are already >forms of untraceable cash and forms of completely fungible money. These >techniques are very ancient and time honored. They are well understood. >Many of them have stood the test of time and have not been compromised by >various incarnations of police states. > >Given the existence of efficient, accessible, secret, and widely accepted >monetary exchange I can't really see the need for a digital bank from the >privacy side. I can't really see anyone who uses the current techniques >being interested in a new experimental form unless they are techno-junkies. >Nevertheless, please continue. Some of us are techno-junkies. I read Mark's reply to Sandy's post. I believe it was well thought. I was interested in knowing more though. Please tell me more about the secret banks that exist today. I would like to hear about the time honored techniques for cash funelling. I am sure that we all have some familarity with the different power groups that exist, and the games they play. Are these groups secure? Are their methods efficient, accessible, secret, and widely accepted? How can I use this old system if I chose to today? That would be my real interest. I think that digital banks are very needed. I think they are feasible. I even think that some power groups might start using them as opposed to the old ways (whatever those ways are!) There are many different kinds of digital money systems possible. I would suggest to Sandy that any work in the area defintely continue. The Net today is only an infant. We all know what is coming. There seems to be a real need for a secure economic system for it. Mark has very valid points about what other technologies are needed in the privacy arena. I completely agree with him that many other problems must be solved as well. I think Mark views crypto technology with a good perspective. There is much more than technology involved. I am including the rest of Mark's post: > It is already well known to privacy fanatics that you should not use > credit cards, debit cards, checks, atm cards, or other forms of electronic > money. All transactions are logged and are easily analyzed. > > Astute people cash their pay check at the employer's bank and pay cash for > everything. Admittedly, this is somewhat paranoid, but on the other hand it > is fun to defeat the monolithic database builders who want to make money off > of selling information that belongs to you. > > Cypherpunks must concentrate on solving problems that are true problems > now. Do not spend time creating a variant of an existing/workable/fun > solution. Email privacy was a true problem. Clear text on your pc's hard > drive was a true problem. > > Right now there is the well known problem of ethernet sniffers and the > trivial security breaches that can occur. A telnet/lat traffic encrypter > is needed badly by the Sun/Dec/HP world. Novell needs something badly as > well. > > Cellular phones desperately need something. The masses just have NO > IDEA how badly cellular needs something! Fax machines need a variant of > PGP. Pagers probably need it too. > > I think the larger issue that cypherpunks need to blue sky about is wether > they will be content with a role as grey-area political criminals underneath > the boot of an ever growing police state. Can crypto be more than a defensive > weapon? What would people be defending against? > > Crypto can do some things but it won't be the total solution. In the end > we need to strengthen the rights of the little guy and devise ways to dilute > any new state powers that are created by technology. Crypto is just one > compartment on our batman utility belt. > > People always argue that criminals would use these tools. I'm certain > of it. Strengthening the state's hand to fight criminals always screws the > little guy. The criminals all go to work for the state when its powerful > enough! We've seen this over and over. > --------- > I'd like a 250 Mhz 128 bit hybrid processor with 64 meg of 8 way interleaved > memory, a 10 megabyte per second i/o channel, two 3 gig hard disks, two dat > drives with compression, and a large diet coke. /**************************************************************************** Name: Scott Beaudreau Occupation: Undergrad in Computer Engineering at Texas A&M. Graduate 05/94! Signature: No signature. I am working on it, Dammit! Opinions: !(In my opinion, everybody agrees with me and I'm always right!) -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.3a mQCNAi1ZjXYAAAEEAKr/Z+hhR4svDYqZq2FG1tyBXthOne5aCHY9Ff2cbIOQDhni gNlu7B86ARjyHf0c2XufqzYga5hb5AMdxV1n0WkKCE46EKtRPsWH9fQRp+fQjv7y meLjXK3cDgO9WMaFG8xIv9zfR3u6GI7/WjNz8CF/qkZ4xi61xg6eIvS4JXE9AAUR tCpTY290dCBKLiBCZWF1ZHJlYXUgPHNqYjgxOTVAemV1cy50YW11LmVkdT4= =obz5 -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- *****************************************************************************/

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Politics, Religion, MUDs, MOOs, the Internet, the Past, and the Future
by collins＠newton.apple.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Here is some cogent text from James Burke, a guy right at the top of my `man-I-wish-I-was-that-smart' list. He is noted for his television series "Connections", "The Day the Universe Changed", "Tomorrow's World", and "The Burke Special". After the last physical cypherpunks meeting, thoughts of MOOs and whatnot floating through my head, I chanced on a Discovery Channel broadcast of "The Day the Universe Changed" and when it was over, rushed right out to get the book. His comments about computers (particularly considering he made them in 1984-5), and the kind of future they can allow mixed in my head with all the things cypherpunks normally plan for and dream about and filled me with a sense of "Wow! This guy is dead on (and even still ahead of us in his thinking)." James Burke The Day the Universe Changed (companion to the public television series) 1985, Little, Brown, and Co. ISBN 0-316-11706-4 *** the first sentence from the Preface *** You are what you know. *** the last five paragraphs in the book *** The knowledge acquired through the use of any structure is selective. There are no standards or beliefs guiding the search for knowledge which are not dependent on the structure. Scientific knowledge, in sum, is not necessarily the clearest representation of what reality is; it is the artifact of each structure and its tool. Discovery is invention. Knowledge is man-made. If this is so, then all views at all times are equally valid. There is no metaphysical, super-ordinary, final, absolute reality. There is no special direction to events. The universe is what we say it is. When theories change the universe changes. The truth is relative. This relativist view is generally shunned. Is is supposed by the Left to dilute commitment and by the Right to leave society defenseless. In fact it renders everybody equally responsible for the structure adopted by the group. If there is no privileged source of truth, all structures are equally worth assessment and equally worth toleration. Relativism neutralizes the views of extremists of all kinds. It makes science accountable to the society from which its structure springs. It urges care in judgement through awareness of the contextual nature of the judgemental values themselves. A relativist approach might well use the new electronic data systems to provide a structure unlike any which has gone before. If structural change occurs most often through the juxtaposition of so-called `facts' in a novel way, then the systems might offer the opportunity to evaluate not the facts which are, at the present rate of change, obsolete by the time they come to the public consciousness, but the relationships between facts: the constants in the way they interact to produce change. Knowledge would then properly include the study of the structure itself. Such a system would permit a type of `balanced anarchy' in which all interests could be represented in a continuous reappraisal of the social requirements for knowledge, and the value judgements to be applied in directing the search for that knowledge. The view that this would endanger the position of the expert by imposing on his work the judgement of the layman ignores the fact that science has always been the product of social needs, counscioulsy expressed or not. Science may well be a vital part of human endeavour, but for it to retain the privilege which it has gained over centuries of being in some measure unaccountable, would be to render both science itself and society a disservice. It is time that knowledge became more accessible to those to whom it properly belongs. *** end of quoted material *** Scott Collins | "That's not fair!" -- Sarah | "You say that so often. I wonder what your basis 408.862.0540 | for comparison is." -- Goblin King ................|.................................................... BUSINESS. fax:974.6094 R254(IL5-2N) collins(a)newton.apple.com Apple Computer, Inc. 5 Infinite Loop, MS 305-2D Cupertino, CA 95014 ..................................................................... PERSONAL. 408.257.1746 1024:669687 catalyst(a)netcom.com

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Re: Big Brother PostScripts
by qwerty-remailer＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Robert Hayden wrote, >[As a side note, I'm thinking of breaking into the lab some night and >putting these stickers on all of the workstations. Just thinking about >it, not actually going to do it :-)] How about payphones? No they aren't Clipper phones. But the point is to make people paranoid, and thus make them think about the issues. For soon it WILL be a Clipper phone. -=Xenon=- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.3 iQCVAgUBLWJGIASzG6zrQn1RAQEglwP/UvzVBo9VDGZX62u3yqM76Pe1GP804HMa dZppBecPtH1ioClP2cR7InCTE8ORSxhPbWBsRDxtF05/ABpSwZogVZcvUzu+s6Lv 2nZtvZWpX18bCI1zdHnJyI4M9EhLLmGe3uoMP7gK8RxK7vVu4YwA6KD/FWgl3uhl jnnfBfvDrtQ= =4w6z -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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No Subject
by Ophir Ronen 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hello everyone, I will pop out of the shadows for a moment to say that I have a fairly illuminating tutorial on ATM if anyone is interested. <Poof> Ophir dissappears in a somewhat murky cloud of smoke Ophir Ronen <a-ophirr(a)microsoft.com> KeyID 1024/54FF05 1994/02/16 Key fingerprint = EA BF 5C 85 F6 C3 A7 8E AA 48 2A AC B9 BC 4B D2 "So long and thanks for all the phish" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.3a iQCVAgUBLWKhlo/5gSeVVP8FAQEo7AP+PwyOebCkIZM32aG1wyzpYdSkabLLy07E +4cyFlJzrQp+OGmctiMBOG7aZfuzOxscaGkXjsUY6GfhI5lZUhtVKkrv1nVyuImo J8Zoy85mV9bK4UriNZX5wOrVfQXwXfu8eF6JMmEhYe2dNOfik4C9feQEmusKZGBE ffRvIXiy24w= =k2Uk -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Detweiler remailer abuse
by qwerty＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Matthew Ghio wrote, >It does work like the postal service. You don't have to put a return >address on the letter. You can put anything in the from line that you >want. You could put From: Anonymous Shithead and it would work. But, >like the postal service, it will get postmarked where you mail it from, >so it will show that it came from netcom.com. Ah, and what better way to get qwerty placed in all the other remailer's kill files? A remailer not part of a network isn't a happy remailer. I'm already too close to being labeled as some sort of renegade idiot to pull this anytime soon. The remailer police will pounce on me for this one, when I change my mind. It would be a lot funner than the level of "punk" I see out here. However, I think the real solution is moderated remailers. Then I'd have and excuse to charge $1 (yes, cheaper than the others :-) ) a pop, and it would add batching, which could be done in random order. However, sadly, I personally don't have the time to maintain such a system :-( . Ah, but I could hire someone to do it for me $-) ! Encryption would keep people's mail private, and Usenet is already public, and my bad memory would not constitute a "log" of who is getting e-mail. The remailer script could EVEN be set up to avoid my even seeing the addresses involved, were they private e-mail. -=Xenon=- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.3 iQCVAgUBLWJmYgSzG6zrQn1RAQG3BgQAn9yos2C1C2sVu+tNxaZqjPhE9uWRAczC XIXc6SgzRtuRvCRH1l4uOdik3f8B/06n11+Q3BEWPtcKMGPR7aKyoAGKMLudZmR9 mQkeJlD5Of89gqcNSvoqRO3L5gVVaK7em4sS03TMi9I9qmAvxKfjl3d9lQdNfX9d 37eDGqOs11k= =CDsI -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: unsubscribe
by hammond＠census.gov 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>From owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com Wed Feb 16 09:12 EST 1994 >Date: Wed, 16 Feb 94 08:53:55 EST >From: katz(a)spectrum.cs.bucknell.edu (lonne katz `94) >To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com >Subject: unsubscribe > >unsubscribe me please > # ditto! i have tried every combintion of *cypherpunks*(a)toad.com # i can think of and i can't find the one to turn it off !!! # while some msgs are thoughtful about importnt things, i don't # need 75 msgs a day. i'm one of those with an unintelligent mail # facility ... please help ... unsubscribe

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East Europ{ean view on Clipper
by an65939＠anon.penet.fi 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The widespread discussion of the Clipper Chip in both US media and relevant discussion lists is limited mostly to American people. Therefore, I wish to add my small opinion from behind the former Iron Curtain based upon my lifetime experience of living in Poland. The discussion is very interesting for me because in a few years' time when we will be more technologically developed (and have bigger GDP so that secret services may flourish) it may repeat itself in my country. I was inspired by the contribution of prof. D. Denning whom I appreciate for outstanding book about cryptography and data security. For years we lived here with the overwhelming impression of being under constant surveillance by omnipotent secret services maintained by undemocratic regime supported by Moscow. For instance people were afraid not to take part in then sham elections. Those elections were openly unequal - their results were obvious for everyone before the results - but were hyped in the media as an act of support for the government. The widespread belief was that if one did not participate he will be denied some "privilege" for example passport and exit visa to the West on the next request. The same applied to not taking part in 1st May official parades which were said to be voluntary. The regime was also afraid of every way of people's informal associating. Participants in unofficial gatherings were photographed and videotaped with the hope of identifying them. Telephone was always considered insecure and all international calls were "for sure" supposed to be wiretapped. As the published files of East Germany's STASI showed these fears were not groundless. From the four years' distance then polish secret service does not seem to had been so strong but its files WERE NOT revealed and the overall impression remains obscure. For years the society had a highly positive attitude towards West and particularly American people despite officially publicized love for Russian liberators. Unfortunately the knowledge of the West was very, very incomplete. Not surprisingly when the communism collapsed in 1989 the society wanted to integrate quickly with the West hopeful to reach their level of freedom and prosperity soon. And to their surprise the West did not fulfil their expectations either because they were false or because at the same time some of Western ideals had proven unrealistic and were to be abolished. And we learned that the Swedish model of caring state is economically infeasible in the long run, that new gospel should be promulgated to change the fast way of western life, that the World had just entered into global recession so everybody is afraid of newly emerged poor democracies, that our model USA is indeed (as described by former pro Moscow propaganda) a ruthless oppressor for some disobedient nations. At the same time we entered the Cyberspace. It was really a unique experience to have the freedom of sending out (to the West) everything one wishes just after the period of total censorship. Recent developments in cryptography and the work of Cypherpunks have created perhaps for the first time in mankind's history the opportunity to create global communities that evade government's surveillance. It seemed that an omnipotent repressive regimes may one day become hardly possible at all. And now we learn that such a privilege cannot be extended to voice communication. I am afraid that similar regulations will apply to communication over future high throughput electronic highways and that the present loose regulations concerning Internet are the result of first incredible speed of the development of this medium (the democratically elected regimes didn't catch up) and second the smaller (for the time being) popularity of email communication when compared to for instance fax and phone. And now conclusions. Despite the gloomy picture I have just presented I am on the whole an optimist. Properties of mathematics behind cryptography are part of the nature itself and like the software cannot be destroyed by human regulations. The governments may slower the outburst of universal privacy but will not evade it. In the Clipper's case I agree with the conclusion of "Newsweek" from 14 Feb. '94 which suggests that the US users will use foreign made devices and foreigners will be reluctant to use US made ones that can be wiretapped. As the fall of Berlin Wall showed the regulations that do not have popular support will one day collapse. Thank you for taking time to read my private opinions and please excuse me poor language (I am not native) and contents (I am very technical). Doodeck ------------------------------------------------------------------------- To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help(a)anon.penet.fi. Due to the double-blind, any mail replies to this message will be anonymized, and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned. Please report any problems, inappropriate use etc. to admin(a)anon.penet.fi.

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