December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: anonymous video rental store
by Jim choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> > > Hi, > > Thanks for the insightful comments! > > > The engineering library at UT Austin used to have it under the glass at the > > check out desk. > > The checkout record or the court order? > > best regards, > > Nick > szabo(a)netcom.com > Uhhhh.......the check out records of course!.......;) Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

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Re: It had to happen...
by Jim choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Strange, I thought it was always 72 hrs.... I think we need a real lawyer at this point..:) Happy Holidays.

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Privacy and Public Libraries
by Michael Edward Marotta 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

YOUR PUBLIC LIBRARIES AND YOUR PERSONAL PRIVACY by Michael E. Marotta <mercury(a)well.sf.ca.us> Generally speaking, librarians are very sensitive to the issues surrounding privacy. As a rule, they protect the privacy of their patrons and they especially resist law enforcement requests for information about anyone's reading habits. There are some exceptions. A librarian can be coersed or cajoled into releasing privileged information. Unless they are very sure of their principles, an effective police interrogator will break down their resistance. Possible ploys run from pleas for professional assistance in criminal cases to good cop/bad cop. Here in Michigan, we have 455 MPA 1982, "The Michigan Library Privacy Act." In a recent case involving a librarian I met, the sheriff harassed the staff at a small, rural library. They refered him to her. She told him that her hands were tied: she was forbidden by law from doing what he asked. He went away. I have heard of other librarians in other states going to jail, having no law to fall back on. Also, here in Livingston County, we have MANUAL cards. You write your name. I can look at any book and see who read it. This is a violation of the law. Since no remedies obtain, I can't get a lawyer interested. My protest to the library was met with "We are changing. It will take some time." Furthermore, when working onsite at a Ford Motor Company plant in Louisville, I discoverd that the Shelby County Library also relies on hand- written checkout cards. However, here in Fowlerville, the librarian instituted card numbers several years ago, so our village of 3,000 is in compliance. Is yours?

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RE: Cyperwonks
by Pat Farrell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In message Fri, 24 Dec 1993 06:08:48 -0500 (EST), Harry Shapiro <habs(a)panix.com> writes: > Is anyone monitoring Cyperwonks? Is anything really happening there? I'm subscribed. There was a little initial activity about electronic democracy, and nearly nothing else. Of course, you get an occasional LD rant, but those are instantly unread and deleted - I took the pledge... Pat Pat Farrell Grad Student pfarrell(a)netcom.com Department of Computer Science George Mason University, Fairfax, VA Public key availble via finger #include <standard.disclaimer>

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Re: Cypherwonks
by remail＠tamsun.tamu.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> Is anyone monitoring Cyperwonks? Is anything really happening there? I'm on there. Detweiler succeeded in signing up a whole bevy of net.fascists to discuss 'electronic democracy' and defame cypherpunks, including: David Lawrence (runs the Usenet new newsgroups vote) consensus.com (commercial groupware company) David Sternlight Julf (provided the site for the list, but has since declared he will only passively support it) Joe Baptista Since somebody started forwarding all of Detweiler's noise on cypherpunks to cypherwonks, the same flame wars Detweiler started on cypherpunks have broken out there and dominated the list as they've done here. I recommended forwarding your old archived Detweiler/an12070 rants to cypherwonks in response to Detweiler posting his slanderous crap. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- To find out more about this anonymous remail service, send mail to remail(a)tamsun.tamu.edu with the word "remail help" as the only words in the subject field.

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Talk.politics.crypto is mostly about Detweiler
by tcmay＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Cyphertentacles, The new crypto newsroup, talk.politics.crypto, is almost wholly devoted now to the flames and rants of Detweiler and people respoding to him. I checked for the new messages there this morning and this is the list I got back: 1 The Data Highway Patrol Olaf Seibert 2 + CRYPTOANARCHIST INFILTRATION ALERT Lvx Fiat 3 + CRYPTOANARCHISTS ARE LIKE DRUG DEALERS Pablo Escobar 4 + THE CRYPTOANARCHIST CONSPIRACY S.Boxx 5 + THE GLORIOUS 1000 YEAR CRYPTOANARCHIST REICH The Allied Forces I know you're tired of Detweiler discussions, but I thought this to be an interesting snapshot of things. --Tim May -- .......................................................................... Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)netcom.com | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero 408-688-5409 | knowledge, reputations, information markets, W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments. Higher Power: 2^756839 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available. Note: I put time and money into writing this posting. I hope you enjoy it.

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pseudoparanoia and poison
by an12070＠anon.penet.fi 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

We just wanted to let you know that we are going to really start firing up all our *real* tentacles over the next few weeks beyond what we have already been using. We gave you the chance to give up after the attacks from an12070 alone, an obviously pseudonymous entry point. We have attempted to adhere to a code of ethics for as long as possible and give you every opportunity to surrender. But increasingly, to catch conspirators and saboteurs we must think and act like them. Since our previous efforts have been only marginally effective, we are going to shift our campaign to rely much more heavily on the same type of unidentifiable entry points that you promote. We have been stockpiling them over the past few months in preparation for exactly this kind of eventuality, hoping that we wouldn't have to resort to anything this treacherous. (Some in important positions may have noticed the `blip' increase in new Internet subscribers lately at the public domain sites around `out there'. But we won't be more specific, so that you can play the delightful game of `name that tentacle' without meddlesome biases.) It's extremely costly and burdensome to support such an infrastructure, especially at the scale you work at, as you are well aware, but our members are as fanatical as you are and as creative and ingenious with the coordination. And careful study of your own techniques and software has given us an excellent starting point! Like S.Boxx was fond of saying, everyone *knows* that `he' is pseudonymous. And what havoc `he' has wreaked! Imagine what we can do with *true* tentacles, *more* than all of yours combined! All exercised with the utmost, meticulous, professional, untraceable, undetectable quality! S.Boxx was just our warmup measure, our way of playing nice and hoping you would relent. We had a lot of fun laughing together (or perhaps _at_ each other!) but in war, allegiances are torn violently in the face of the Enemy. One cannot have mercy on the Enemy, because the Enemy will not have mercy on us. We are going to work into this nice and gentle, too, emulating exactly your own modus operandi. Of course, we didn't really give a damn about anyone guessing S.Boxx loyalties. It was part of the fun to watch people who supposedly promote `privacy' to do everything possible to invade his! But these new tentacles will be *completely* indistinguishable from everyone else in cyberspace, *even* your brainwashed followers, we assure you. Oh, and they will also be indistinguishable from all the *real* people who have begun to understand the true extent of your own corruption. And you will be meeting them in the most interesting places! On all the `key' mailing lists, in the newsgroups, and in your mailboxes, perhaps even in the published journals like RISKS and CUD. After all, if the Enemy points his gun at you, one has to be the first to draw if one wants to live. We will no longer trade our compassion for betrayal. We do not enjoy slowly bleeding to death. Let us see how you enjoy the same experience. The most effective poison is that which goes undetected to the end! Reminds us of one of our favorite words, `insidious'. (Hee, hee.) Yes, regrettably, it does lead to an extremely paranoid atmosphere where previously constructive activity is sabotaged, but as they say, all is fair in Love and War. Fighting fire with fire and all that. Hopefully, in the long run, the cure won't be worse than the malady, and the host will fight off the parasite instead of dying from it. The next few months will determine whether hair of the dog that bites can cure the illness. Remember, ``On the internet, no one knows if you are a dog...'' ------------------------------------------------------------------------- To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help(a)anon.penet.fi. Due to the double-blind, any mail replies to this message will be anonymized, and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned. Please report any problems, inappropriate use etc. to admin(a)anon.penet.fi.

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Impuning my reputation by association
by collins＠newton.apple.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hello, I paraphrase, not quote, you in this message. Please tell me if the meanings I have extracted from your posts are not what you intended. I suspect, however, that whatever you might have intended, I attribute the same meanings to your posts as the majority readers. You say that there are no honest cypherpunks, only liars, slinking cowards, and people too stupid to realize they are being 'taken'. You attribute many characteristics, particularly immoral ones, to cypherpunks, which throughout the rest of this message I will summarize with the words: lying, liar, etc. If a cypherpunk is: 'anyone engaged in traffic on the cypherpunk list', then both you and I are cypherpunks. I believe myself to be honest, forward, and intelligent. I assume, of course, that you believe the same of yourself. Therefore, there must be at least two honest 'punks. Since you cannot easily verify that my beliefs about myself are true, it could be that there is only one honest 'punk. (From the old testement: "If, even one righteous man dwells therein, I will stay My hand.") If a cypherpunk is: 'anyone who uses cryptographic tools for the purposes of fraud', then there can be no honest cypherpunks by definition. I have never, am not now, nor do I intend to in the future, use cryptographic tools for the purposes of fraud, deception, character assassination, or other wrongs. Regardless of which definition of cypherpunks you, "L. Detweiler", believe, people to whom you speak will assume the _first_ definition, which as a set, contains you, me, and other potentially honest individuals. If you didn't mean that definition (they will not even bother to think to themselves), you would have used the word 'criminals' or a derivative, thereof. You tell people "all cypherpunks are liars". If they pass the initial paradox (that you, a cypherpunk, are telling them you are liar), by presuming your honesty, and therefore, necessarily, your exclusion from the set, then they must now believe the false notion that I, Scott Collins, _am_ a liar. -1- "L. Detweiler" tells people 'Scott Collins is a liar'. -2- I, Scott Collins, am not a liar. My beliefs (including, like our Justice system, a general presumption of innocense) about other cypherpunks does not even come into play here. The issue is: you are impuning my character. I leave the logical conclusion of statements -1- and -2- as an exersize for the reader. It seems that you have made yourself my judge, and worse, an executioner. How will you ensure Justice? How will you find, with certainty, the Truth? Or, do you consider the persecution of innocents to be 'acceptable losses'. The precedents set in every written guideline of moral behavior that I have read are exactly opposite this. In our legal system: a) defendents are presumed innocent until proven guilty, and b) are guaranteed due legal process. In the major religions with which I am familiar, it is only the deity who may judge and punish, not man. There are bad things in this world, and I hate those things. You and I even agree on what some of those things are. But I ask you this: Who are _you_, to judge me? Who are _you_, to persecute me? Scott Collins | "Few people realize what tremendous power there | is in one of these things." -- Willy Wonka ......................|................................................ BUSINESS. voice:408.862.0540 fax:974.6094 collins(a)newton.apple.com Apple Computer, Inc. 5 Infinite Loop, MS 305-2B Cupertino, CA 95014 ....................................................................... PERSONAL. voice/fax:408.257.1746 1024:669687 catalyst(a)netcom.com

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Re: pseudoparanoia and poison
by jim＠bilbo.suite.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> > Remember, ``On the internet, no one knows if you are a dog...'' On the Internet, everyone knows you're Detweiler...

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list
by jvarley＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I don't know if this is the right address, but please add me to the list. Thanks. -- jvarley(a)netcom.com | "...Soul of a woman was created below!" Tomes on IRC | --Led Zeppelin

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