December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

pem-dev requests "Articulation of PGP point of view?"
by henry strickland 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

If someone wants to answer this, it may help the people on the Privacy Enhanced Mailer Developer <pem-dev@tis-com> list add the capability for the web-of-trust model of key distribution. I think this is a chance to preach to the unconverted-but-convertable. Notice one wants a speaker, one merely a posting. Who's articulate? strick Forwarded message: # From pem-dev-request(a)magellan.TIS.COM Thu Oct 21 08:40:42 1993 # Message-Id: <9310211453.AA22593(a)smiley.mitre.org.sit> # X-Sender: shirey(a)128.29.140.20 # Mime-Version: 1.0 # Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" # Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 10:54:43 -0500 # To: pem-dev(a)tis.com # From: "Robert W. Shirey" <shirey(a)mitre.org> # Subject: Articulation of PGP point of view? # # Is there anyone who has, or is able to, articulate # the PGP point of view for public key management and # compentently contrast it to the PEM point of view? # # Is there, perhaps, someone who has written on this # subject or spoken publicly in an organized fashion? # # I am seeking such a person for a presentation and # panel discussion at an international conference. # # I need names ASAP! # # Please feel free to forward this message to # appropriate newsgroups. # # # Regards, -Rob- # SHIREY(a)MITRE.ORG * tel 703.883.7210 * fax 703.883.1397 # Robert W. Shirey, The MITRE Corporation, Mail Stop Z202 # 7525 Colshire Drive, McLean, Virginia 22102-3481 USA # Forwarded message: # From pem-dev-request(a)magellan.TIS.COM Thu Oct 21 09:41:29 1993 # Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 16:27:16 +0100 # From: Ruediger Grimm <grimm(a)darmstadt.gmd.de> # Message-Id: <9310211527.AA19289(a)ipsi.darmstadt.gmd.de> # To: shirey(a)mitre.org # Subject: Re: Articulation of PGP point of view? # Cc: pem-dev(a)tis.com # # > Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 10:54:43 -0500 # > To: pem-dev(a)tis.com # > From: "Robert W. Shirey" <shirey(a)mitre.org> # > Subject: Articulation of PGP point of view? # > # > Is there anyone who has, or is able to, articulate # > the PGP point of view for public key management and # > compentently contrast it to the PEM point of view? # > # # How much I would like to read the output of this! # Does such a statement exist? This list is certainly # a thankful forum of interested readers. # # Ruediger #

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MATH: factoring, # of bits
by Karl Lui Barrus 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >First, we need an equation that tell us how difficult it is, in # of >operations, to factor a number of N bits. eg: N_ops(N) = # of >operations it will take. I think the fastest method that anyone admits to, by Odzyklo (spelling?), has an order of magnitude defined by: e^(sqrt(ln(x) ln(ln(x)))) I've been dusting off my Mathematica skills working on the crypto techniques Matt posts :-) so it looks like this in Mathematica: f[x_] := N[Exp[Sqrt[Log[x] Log[Log[x]]]]] x in bits difficulty 200 2.27 E11 384 5.54 E16 <- PGP casual 512 6.69 E19 <- PGP commercial 664 1.18 E23 1000 1.75 E29 1024 4.42 E29 <- PGP military 1500 8.11 E36 2000 3.11 E43 3000 5.49 E54 4000 2.44 E64 6000 7.06 E80 8000 8.99 E94 I don't know how many seconds until the end of the universe, but I think you'll be covered using an 8000 bit key :-) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.3a iQCVAgUBLMbFXYOA7OpLWtYzAQEwrwP9G60hCktxcj7MwkOV2H7QPQ1+i+j5ceTK DEcj74ZFZdsp1vouMxtsN+zvqkdy1+DTzNUuXusWKhogDLFEPTuASZD3tcFgkoUT Uk0B805mJi/gfiBa7+CBWHgjF0T7NSZe1lTjqfru1u+XeU/7iAq+erU0ojydL/xi tqBAZZg3gEs= =wkBt -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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why an envelope
by pmetzger＠lehman.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Enough people have asked that I'll explain why envelopes are seperated from headers in mail. Lets say I'm sending mail with the following header To: foo, bar, baz Mail gets stored and forwarded many times during its delivery process on a large internet. If at every stage the only hint the mailer had for delivery was the header address, every mailer along the way would have to generate three copies of the mail in order to guarantee delivery. Kind of nutty, eh? Thats why there is a seperate envelope. When you generate the mail, three seperate copies will be produced with seperate envelopes indicating the mail whould be sent to "foo", "bar", and "baz", and the mailers in between don't look at the headers at all. This is a slight simplification because envelopes can contain multiple addresses -- but thats when you are sending one message to many people via a common path -- the mailer at the last step where the mail can take a common path is expected to break the envelope up before sending it further along. Perry

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Re: Mail delivery question
by peter honeyman 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

i think you want to check out rfc 821, which describes smtp. peter

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Re: backing
by hfinney＠shell.portal.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Perry wrote: > > A digital currency can be backed by gold held in some secure location > > like the Zurich Free Transit Warehouse. U.S. Dollars are backed by > > absolutely nothing other than blind faith in the U.S. Governement. > > Who's kidding whom? Banks are contractually obligated to turn over mortgage notes in exchange for U.S. dollars. These contracts are valid over approximately 30 years, and provide unencumbered title to valuable property. These and similar contracts may be said to give value to dollars independent of government promises. Hal

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Colorado Cypherpunks
by W. Kinney 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Count another Colorado 'punk, Boulder. Writing code (slowly) for the Mac. That pesky thesis keeps getting in the way... -- Will

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re:backing
by F_GRIFFITH＠CCSVAX.SFASU.EDU 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>workable barter currency? Aug/Sept 93 Mother Earth News has an article "The Ultimate Barter" about "A currency based on time-hours is a boon to a rural community." >poorly-backed digital currency will win out over e.g. U.S. dollars? Depends on legal tender status (see post by Perry). Note too his point that digital currency needn't be poorly backed. However, also note that government issued dollars would circulate in preference to gold backed digital currency issued by someone else according to Greshams law (which was stated in reference to metal coins, but applies to other forms as well). Solution might be to denominate digital currency in something other than $ (e.g. gold grams) & have parallel monetary system develop.

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re:700 Club etc.
by F_GRIFFITH＠CCSVAX.SFASU.EDU 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

This is another thread only slightly related to cypherpunks. I find the paranoid reaction to the "Religious Right" strange. Perhaps it is based on relying on the establishment media for a picture of it. Would you rely on such media to give you an accurate picture of what the government is doing with cryptography or of teh need for gun control? The media picture of the Religious Right is just as distorted. The right to encryption and the "right" to abortion don't have the same basis - encryption kills no one.

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Calling all Colorado CypherPunks
by nate＠rodin.VIS.ColoState.EDU 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I am planning (if it hasn't been done) to start the Colorado branch of the CypherPunks. If you are a CypherPunk interested in this (and live in the vicinity), please send me email, I'll start thinking of things to do, and we can work out where to meet and how often. -nate -- +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Nate Sammons email: nate(a)VIS.ColoState.Edu | Colorado State University Computer Visualization Laboratory | Finger nate(a)monet.VIS.ColoState.Edu for my PGP key | #include <std.disclaimer> | Title 18 USC 2511 and 18 USC 2703 Protected --> Monitoring Forbidden +--------+ Always remember "Brazil"

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(fwd) Articulation of PGP point of view?
by Carl_Ellison＠vos.stratus.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 10:54:43 -0500 >From: "Robert W. Shirey" <shirey(a)mitre.org> >Subject: Articulation of PGP point of view? >Is there anyone who has, or is able to, articulate >the PGP point of view for public key management and >compentently contrast it to the PEM point of view? >Is there, perhaps, someone who has written on this >subject or spoken publicly in an organized fashion? >I am seeking such a person for a presentation and >panel discussion at an international conference. >I need names ASAP! >Please feel free to forward this message to >appropriate newsgroups. >Regards, -Rob- >SHIREY(a)MITRE.ORG * tel 703.883.7210 * fax 703.883.1397 >Robert W. Shirey, The MITRE Corporation, Mail Stop Z202 >7525 Colshire Drive, McLean, Virginia 22102-3481 USA

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