December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Spreading Technology (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: Spreading Technology > From: shadow(a)krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) > Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 00:23:37 PST > >>What did Einstein say? "God does not play dice with the Universe"? > > This comment was made in reference to the Uncertainty Principle and > > Einstein's perception of the indeterminancy of quantum mechanics. He > > supposedly said it so many times that Neils Bohr, who was more > > philosophically inclined to accept the contradictions in modern physics > > than Einstein, once became so exasperated that he admonished Einstein to > > "stop telling God what to do!" > > And after the experiments that pretty much killed the "hidden > variables" interpretation, one physicist reportedly commented "Not only > does God play dice, he sometimes throws the dice where they can't be > seen." Bohr's objection was one of religion, not reality. His objection was one of familiarity breeding contempt of God. It was Stephen Hawking who made the quip about not seeing the dice. The SU(5) theory was arrived at by political contrivance in 1927 when the Solvay Conference was called to resolve the various theories that happened to be flying fast and furious at the time, instigated by DeBroglie. Because several of these theories were completely in agreement with experiment it was becoming impossible to make progress because of all the possibilities. The question asked was "what theory shows the most promise for continued research and acceptance of requests for operating capital." The SU(5) was arrived at by majority vote and not experimental verification. Einstein's objection to the Uncertainty Principle was the same as David Bohm's. In fact most physicists at the time were opposed to it, the famous Schroedinger Cat was meant to be an objection to the theory and in particular to show how unrealistic it was. If you happen to be willing to do away with the standard SU(5) theory then the Uncertainty Principle goes away, a good example is to look at David Bohms 'many worlds' theory as it has no uncertainty principle involved. Bohm was black-balled by the conventional physics community because he would not accept the SU(5) even in principle. It has only been in the last 15 years or so that serious review of Bohm's work has taken place. Alfven and others have used it and other approaches to bring many of the basic tenets of the SU(5) and the Big Bang into question. Interesting aspect is even his most strident opponents admitted their objection to his theories were based on emotion and mental attitudes and not on any failure regarding experimental verification. He was and is considered one of the greatest modern physicists, on a par with Einstein and et ali. You might check out David Bohm's last book before he died, The Undivided Universe: An ontological interpretation of quantum theory D.Bohm, B.J. Hiley ISBN 0-415-06588-7 ____________________________________________________________________ | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http:// www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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FTP site for t-shirt design
by Christian Void 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I forgot to put this in the last post... Our t-shirt design, as well as any other designs people come up will be available at netcom.com: ~pub/cvoid/cypherpunks. All files should be in *.gif format. Christian Void /T71 | "I don't like it, and I'm sorry I | V/M/Research, Inc. cvoid(a)netcom.com | ever had anything to do with it." | P.O. Box 170213 Tel. 1+415-807-5491 | -Erwin Schrodinger (1887-1961) | SF, CA 94117-0213 * PGP v2.3a Public Key Available Via Finger *

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RE: PGP 2.6.1 release from MIT
by Claborne, Chris 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

---------- > From: Philip Zimmermann <prz(a)acm.org> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > To: All PGP users > Date: 2 Sep 94 > Re: PGP 2.6.1 release > > This new version has a lot of bug fixes over version 2.6. I hope this is > the final release of this family of PGP source code. We've been working > on an entirely new version of PGP, rewritten from scratch, which is much > cleaner and faster, and better suited for the future enhancements we have > planned. All PGP development efforts will be redirected toward this > new code base, after this 2.6.1 release. Anyone have an idea of what these "enhancements" will be? New data formats? 2 -- C -- ... __o .. -\<, chris.claborne(a)sandiegoca.ncr.com ...(*)/(*). CI$: 76340.2422 PGP Pub Key fingerprint = A8 FA 55 92 23 20 72 69 52 AB 64 CC C7 D9 4F CA Avail on Pub Key server.

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T-Shirt Update
by Christian Void 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Okay. I have compiled a list of people interested in the shirt...If you are not on the list, and are interested, mail me. As for a design, we have a design we are working with, available (a rough draft) via anon ftp. If you have a better idea, or would like to take a crack at designing it, let me know and we can put these designs up as well. A sort of "vote for the best design". Also, Jef Poskanzer (jef(a)netcom.com) has given us permission to use his DOT crypto warning sign, if someone would like to incorporate that into thier idea. We will be finishing up our design over the next week, and working cost, sizes, etc. I'll keep you posted. Christian Void /T71 | "I don't like it, and I'm sorry I | V/M/Research, Inc. cvoid(a)netcom.com | ever had anything to do with it." | P.O. Box 170213 Tel. 1+415-807-5491 | -Erwin Schrodinger (1887-1961) | SF, CA 94117-0213 * PGP v2.3a Public Key Available Via Finger *

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Momma's boy
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

<ahem> ...."Lawrence?" From: jim(a)rand.org (Jim Gillogly) Newsgroups: talk.politics.crypto,alt.privacy,alt.privacy.anon-server,news.admin.policy,comp.org.eff.talk,comp.admin.policy,alt.conspiracy Subject: Re: CRYPTOANARCHIST INFILTRATION ALERT Date: 5 Dec 1993 21:58:36 GMT Organization: Banzai Institute Message-ID: <2dtlic$naj(a)rand.org> References: <dasherCHH3Ey.J1F(a)netcom.com> <tcmayCHH6MA.Mzw(a)netcom.com> <Dec04.105319.36526(a)yuma.acns.colostate.edu> In article <Dec04.105319.36526(a)yuma.acns.colostate.edu>, L. Detweiler <ld231782(a)casco.lance.colostate.edu> wrote: >oh, BTW Mr. May, when did you decide my first name was Larry and not Lance? >You called me Lance for 10 months or so on the cypherpunks list. Given that somebody using your account in '91 posted an article to sci.crypt about factoring under the name "Lawrence Detweiler", I suppose that either Larry or Lance might be a reasonable guess... if perhaps overly familiar. What nickname do you prefer, if any? Does this make me a pseudopod of the ubiquitous anonymous organism? Will Suicide Squid come out of retirement to counter this new evil? Is L. Detweiler the Colo State equivalent of C-MU's Harry Q. Bovick? The world wonders... -- Jim Gillogly Hevensday, 15 Foreyule S.R. 1993, 21:58

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VOTE: Proposition desist: no
by fnerd＠smds.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Shut Detweiler out of the cpunx list? no. I have no problem skipping his posts; presently I'm not worried about the bandwidth through the modem into /dev/null. He posts interesting things once in a while (most recently, that piece by Kapor about libertarians vs. "decentralists.") I wouldn't mind the creation of a special "Detweiler free" filtered version of the list, as long as it was just a postprocessor on the true list. -fnerd quote me -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.3a aKxB8nktcBAeQHabQP/d7yhWgpGZBIoIqII8cY9nG55HYHgvtoxiQCVAgUBLMs3K ui6XaCZmKH68fOWYYySKAzPkXyfYKnOlzsIjp2toust1Q5A3/n54PBKrUDN9tHVz 3Ch466q9EKUuDulTU6OLsilzmRvQJn0EJhzd4pht6hanC0R3seYNhUYhoJViCcCG sRjLQs4iVVM= =9wqs -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Welcome to cypherwonks
by Majordomo＠Lists.EUnet.fi 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Welcome to the cypherwonks mailing list! If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, send the following command in email to "Majordomo(a)Lists.EUnet.fi": unsubscribe cypherwonks Stanton McCandlish <mech(a)eff.org> Here's the general information for the list you've subscribed to, in case you don't already have it: This is the Cypherwonks mailing list Below is The Cypherwonk Charter, by L. Detweiler, Cypherwonk Janitor The cypherwonks are a splinter group from the cypherpunks also interested in promoting and implementing cryptographic technology. However, we have unique ideas on how to successfully implement these radical new capabilities to ensure privacy without encouraging criminal behaviors like forgery and `online predation'. We are also interested in a far more ambitious goal of `technological progress' that transcends a mere obsession with privacy and anonymity. The cypherwonks believe that many aspects of a identification and government are necessary and crucial for any social stability (particularly related to judicial and law enforcement systems), and are quite alarmed at talk about a `cryptoanarchy' resulting from the mere implementation of software protocols -- although we realize that radical new forms of government may appear with these new technologies, embodied in one term `Electronic Democracy'. We believe that while sometimes the `majority' can become a `tyranny', in general the idea of voting as a civilized way of resolving proposals and `one person, one vote' are sacred, and we are interested in implementing systems that promote interaction and collaboration among motivated and enthusiastic members, whether within the cypherwonk organization or within their nations (cypherwonks, of course, try to think free of local prejudices, and globally). Cypherwonks understand that *trust* and *honesty* are inherent in all human endeavors, *particularly* communication. We recognize that people trust others not to reveal our private email unless given permission, we trust others not to use information from our mail or about their identities to adverse aims, we trust that systems delivering mail will not be corrupted by criminals, or if they get caught there will be serious consequences, and many other explicit and implicit variations. We know that there are many ingenious ways of minimizing the amount of trust required in unknown components such as with the use of cryptography or pseudonyms, and we seek passionately to invent and use them, but at the root level, email is an exchange between human beings who trust each other. Therefore, we hold a sense of ethics and morality in strong reverence, and even though we're not always precisely sure what they entail, we know that they exist and we strive for the right ideal. We abhor the idea that `it's not wrong if you can get away with it' or other variations of moral relativism. Cypherwonks are also extremely interested in promoting and implementing `digital cash', but believe that while invariably the state's taxes tend to become burdensome, few civilized, technological societies are free of them, and certainly we do not advocate tax evasion, `black marketeering', or any other subversive or illegal activities through cryptographic techniques, and even beyond this we seek design protocols that discourage these subversive aims in general, because of their toxic, fragmentary effect on social unity. Cypherwonks recognize that our mailing list is extremely critical in coordinating our movement and our fellow members. It is our central nervous system. While the list is informal, we demand a professional atmosphere, and will privately object to people who are publicly rude or belligerent. But we are also extremely careful about what we say to each other in private, because people can be extremely influenced by what they receive in mail. We would be aghast and horrified to find that somebody viciously criticized someone in private mail based on public postings, for example. We place high value on being courteous to each other and minimizing disagreement where possible, forging consensus, and the art of diplomacy in surmounting political barriers. We trust each other on the list and in personal email. We wish to have an open, uplifting, inspiring, honest, representative, polite, respectful, egalitarian dialogue. We will never use the mailing list for personal or selfish reasons -- we strive to serve our fellow cypherwonks through our postings. We are what we claim to be. We abhor secrecy, `security through obscurity', and conspirational cliques. Cypherwonks are extremely interested in promoting some forms of anonymity. However, we do not necessarily believe that others are required to read anonymous postings. To the contrary, we believe that the individual should have the tools and freedom to filter his or her own mail based on real identities. In particular, we condemn the practice of `pseudospoofing,' the dangerous deception where a person builds up a pseudonym and misrepresents it as being that of a real person's identity. We police each other on the list to prevent it, and require a promise that our members refrain from it. While our trust can be betrayed, only those that are honest are true cypherwonks, and anyone who betrays our trust we consider a dishonist hypocrite, or worse, a tra *itor. Cypherwonks are extremely interested in building tangible systems. Engineers who love to discuss the nitty-gritty details of some scheme are at home on the cypherwonks list. We like to impress each other with our knowledge but at the same time state it in relevant and humble terms. We are not trying to win popularity contests with our postings. We are trying to accomplish ambitious endeavors. We are especially ecstatic to make connections with other cypherwonks interested in the same projects we are, and cooperating to build useful tools. We like to give status reports of our intermittent real-world meetings and

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We interrupt this LD thread with CCC'93
by Giuseppe Cimmino 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

are any of the TENTACLES planning on attending CCC'93 in the FLESH? i'd be interested in hooking up over there. vergiss nicht diene PSEUDOSPOOF pgp key mitzubringen. Giuseppe

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Security (Encryption) Corps
by Matthew J Miszewski 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

To interupt the Monster in the name of Cypherpatriot Activity... I plan on starting up a security and consulting firm over the next few months. A great deal of what we will address are practical applications of crypto technology. Due to the fact that pre-LD experience with this list has showed a great deal of impressive peole or net.entities out there, I would like those interested in getting involved with an upstart (and yet comprehensive) corporation to contact me. The corporation will deal with all aspects of information security including telco product security, data integrity, data security, communication security, and general computer consultations. If you are interested, or have any ideas you think are ready for commercialization, let me know. Cypherpunks Start Corporations! (No longer merely write code). --Matt ______________________________________________________________________________ In defense of liberty, encrypt for all purposes, civil and professional. In defense of privacy, encrypt all correspondence, personal and professional. In defense of sanity, do not encrypt your dry cleaning invoice! ++++++++--------mjmiski(a)macc.wisc.edu (c)1993

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PGP Question
by jaeck＠alc.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Would someone please explain exactly what it is that using PGP to sign an electronic post is supposed to be good for? Given that I will understand that, how can I decipher a PGP block, and how can I create one? Thanks.

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