December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Using PGP on Insecure Machines
by p.v.mcmahon.rea0803＠oasis.icl.co.uk 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

James Hightower writes: > Which brings me to the question; "What ARE people using, and what are > they GOING to use?" Can anyone point me to a survey of the most used > Consumer will be using so that we can be there with strong, usable ^^^^^^^^ Who? > crypto when he gets there. ^^^^^ Where? Or less tersely, which users of messaging are you interested in providing crypto for? Apart from the Defence sector, there seem to be three main communities: 1 "Formal" inter-business electronic messaging using commercial value-added networks (VANs) - which are perceived as secure - and associated user agent software (which varies greatly). About fifty thousand North American companies are "there" already (for EDI, and at a cost). Leakage (due to high VAN costs) of formal messaging business from VANs onto the insecure Internet is not yet significant - although CommerceNet will doubtless fix that. 2 Intra-organisation nessaging based on LAN or corporate workflow and email systems. This has built both bottom-up and downwards (e.g. from PROFS or equivalent). The prevalent software is diverse, proprietary and volume. I don't have total market figures to hand, but as an example, the 11JUL94 Government Computer News ranks MS Mail (Windows 3), cc:Mail (Windows), cc:Mail(DOS), MS Mail (PC Networks), and WordPerfect Office as the most preferred e-mail packages amongst Federal users. I would expect a similar list in most commercial email-enabled organisations (with the addition of Lotus Notes). Varying security facilities are bundled within these packages already. 3 The "informal messaging" sector (including most Internet traffic). The associated software is more diverse and "open", but its users have a marginal and/or occasional need for end-to-end / message-transfer security. Note: for both 1 and 2, an "insecure machine" (i.e.: with administrative intrusion potential into an individual's messaging security) is more likely a requirement than a problem for medium/large corporations - as management supervision and control over information assets need to be possible. -- Tim May writes: > I had assumed the poll was of *us*, which is both a manageable poll to > take, and a useful one. What would be done with the results? --- James A. Donald says: > High Tech industry has considerable experience with surveys of > consumers for nonexistent products. > > Such surveys are useless at best, and dangerous at worst. On the other hand, how else do you find out whether a sufficiently serious market exists to warrant investment in developing / productising a technology ? - pvm

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Digested Version no longer available
by Robert A. Hayden 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

It is with deep regret that I inform you all that the digested version of the list is no longer available. The machine that the digested version was running from was removed from the network due to a power-ploy by faculty and administration in computer services and the computer science department. It is my hope that in about two weeks when school officially resumes, I will be able to get the machine restored. At that point, I will attempt to recoordinate with Eric to get the digested list set back up. I apologize. ____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden(a)krypton.mankato.msus.edu \ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=- \/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> I do not necessarily speak for the \/ Finger for PGP Public Key <=> City of Mankato or anyone else

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Re: Nuclear Weapons Material
by koontzd＠lrcs.loral.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>The ammo used by the A-10 chain gun uses a depleted uranium core that is >designed to defeat Chobam and other types of reactive armor. It is also >used in F-14, F-15, F-16, and F-18's that are tasked with ground attack >missions where active armor tanks are expected to be encountered. A clarification. The A-10 is equipped with a 30mm weapon, the fighters are equipped with 20 mm. Its the size (30mm) along with the density (depleted uranium) that makes the kinetic weapon so effective against armored targets.

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Re: Nuclear Weapons Material
by jdd＠aiki.demon.co.uk 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In message <199408251440.HAA06649(a)netcom7.netcom.com> Mike Duvos writes: > > I wonder why the issue of bomb parts is now being given such a > huge push in the press? Maybe because several people have been arrested in Germany and Russia over the last week or two. According to the UK press a group at a Russian nuclear weapons facility were stealing tens of kilos of the stuff, and one guy supposedly was willing to trade a kilo of plutonium for 70 bottles of vodka. Occasionally coverage in the press does reflect events in the real world. -- Jim Dixon

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Re: U & Pu "poisoning of the environment"
by jdd＠aiki.demon.co.uk 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In message <9408251512.AA11369(a)focis.sda.cbis.COM> "Paul J. Ste. Marie" writes: > > > Epidemiologic studies of workers [even wartime workers with impressive > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > body burdens/ exposures] in a number of uranium bomb-making centers have > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > found ~ no health effects. > > > > This is quite similar to saying that nerve gas is harmless because > > scarcely anyone working in storage areas has been killed by it. Or > > that bullets won't harm you because people handle crates of them and > > they don't get shot. > > No, it is not. If you had read the message more carefully, you would > have had to phrase your example as, "This is quite similar to saying > that nerve gas is harmless because scarcely anyone who has inhaled > substantial amounts of it has been killed by it." In all of these cases there is a serious attempt to make sure that the workers are not harmed by the dangerous substances involved. I must say that the phrase "impressive body burdens" is fairly incomprehensible. But nevertheless, my point stands: workers are carefully protected from the plutonium and U235 in nuclear weapons plants. When their radiation badges show what is considered a high level dose, this does not mean that they have been exposed to anything like, say, the radiation from a kilo of unshielded plutonium. If radioactive substances are used as weapons, the intention will be to do the maximum possible damage. I don't think that anyone would survive for long after exposure to, say, a suspension of plutonium in air designed to be breathed in, perhaps as an aerosol. To repeat my point: you say that statistical studies of workers in nuclear weapons plants which are specifically designed to minimize the effects of radiation show that radiation has done little harm. Well, I should hope so. On the other hand I say that such studies are poor criteria for judging the effects of radiation intended to do the maximum possible harm. I think that this is really indisputable. -- Jim Dixon

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Re: Nuclear Weapons Material
by jdd＠aiki.demon.co.uk 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In message <9408251708.AA04970(a)vail.tivoli.com> Mike McNally writes: > Mike Duvos writes: > > The idea is that the > > uranium penetrates the armor and the charge then explodes once > > the round is inside. > > I don't know much about modern munitions, but I do know that armor > piercing rounds may have no charge in them at all. Most do. RPGs, for example, definitely do. As I recall, a shaped charge punches a tiny hole through the armor and then injects a blob or jet of liquified metal into the vehicle. It's much worse than a ricochet. The explosion occurs outside the tank, driving the jet of metal in. Armor piercing artillery rounds are called HEAT (High Explosive Anti- Tank). The name says it all. -- Jim Dixon

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swIPe
by alex 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The other day, while I was poking around the C'Punk FTP site, I ran across swIPe, the low-level network security protocol by Matt Blaze and John Ioannidis. I'm not as knowledgeble as many of the people here, but swIPe strikes me as "The Right Way" to apply crypto to net-communications. Instead of having secure email, secure mosaic, secure telnet, etc., you have secure IP traffic. It's comparatively simple, it's very flexible, and it's transparent. I haven't heard much about swIPe, and I was wondering if someone could bring me up to speed on it, let me know the status of the project, the conventional wisdom, etc. In particular, I'd like to know if anyone uses swIPe with Linux. Also, I'm curious about the practicality of using swIPe as a component in a larger secure mail (or secure anything) system. If I understand the situation properly, swIPe would only be one piece of a total security system. You'd still need to protect against unauthorized break-ins on your machine, and you'd still have to trust root, you'd still depend on the OS's built-in security, you'd still need a CFS type of program to store your swIPe keys, etc. Finally (I know I'm asking a lot of questions here), does anyone have any pointers to anything about the key-exchange system (apart from what was at soda)? Thanks, Alex

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Re: Nuclear Weapons Material
by dance＠cicero.spc.uchicago.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>I wonder why the issue of bomb parts is now being given such a >huge push in the press? For one thing, Germany has been going ballistic because of the sheer number of people trying to smuggle Uranium/Plutonium from the ex-Soviet Union across its borders for sale on the world market. The Christian Science Monitor had a good article on this last week sometime. _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ Disobedience is the true _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/ _/ foundation of liberty. _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ The obedient must be slaves. _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ "Civil Disobedience" _/ (Thoreau)

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'What A Long Strange Trip It's Been' by Lewis Sanders
by ajteel＠andronix.org 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

================================================= === "What A Long Strange Trip Its Been: === === A Hippy's History Of The 60's & Beyond" === === By Lewis Sanders, 2nd. Edition, 1994 === ================================================= Dear Friend I am sending this special announcement to all of the addresses of net.friends that I found in my mailbox. I have come across a book that I am sure that many of you may be interested in. This is a one-time, special announcement and is _not_ the start of new mailing list. The book is, in my opinion, important enough to tell all of you about. "What A Long Strange Trip It's Been" is now available in an autographed, limited edition printing. This new and updated version of Sanders' 1989 underground classic has the reviewers raving. Readers can't put it down. Colleges are using it with great success in American History and Sociology classes. With unique first-hand knowledge of the subject, Sanders writes a detailed account of the people and events of the era. Users of my InfoBot might be especially interested in the appendix regarding 'world domination'. To obtain a brief flyer containing excerpts, a synopsis, and reviews about this riveting account of major trends of the last three decades, simply send a message to walstib-info(a)andronix.org. The author may also be reached at walstib(a)andronix.org <Lewis Sanders>. If you are not interested, _please_ _disregard_this_message_. Regards, -A. J.- =*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-= Without Prejudice UCC 1-207, A. J. Teel, Sui Juris, SLE <ajteel(a)andronix.org> USPS: A.C.T., A. Freeman, c/o 637 So. Broadway #B-212, Boulder, NON-DOMESTIC Colorado Republic, (u).S.A., P.Z.: 80303/TDC (303) 687-4935 24 Hours NIC: AJT =*=-=*=-=*=-= Random Liberty/Freedom Quote for this message =-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*= TREATY. "... Treaties usually provide for their own termination, but independently of that it has been held that when a treaty becomes dangerous to the life or incompatible with the independence of a state or a permanent obstacle to the development of its constitution or the rights of its people, it can be abdicated, and also when the condition of affairs which formed the basis of the treaty has become so modified by time that its execution has become contrary to the nature of things and the original intent of the parties: 22 Ct. Cls. 408." --Bouvier's Law Dictionary, 1897 edition. (Is NAFTA a "treaty" or an "agreement"?!) =*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-= No posts from .andronix.org may be commercially quoted without permission. Email frink-info(a)andronix.org for important 'Freedom, Ink.' Archives Data. Email walstib-info(a)andronix.org for What_A_Long_Strange_Trip_It's_Been Info.

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Re: Nuclear Weapons Material
by David K. Merriman 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> >Occasionally coverage in the press does reflect events in the real >world. >-- >Jim Dixon > Christ, don't let the press find out they screwed up like that - otherwise, we'll *never* hear another bit of Real News (tm) again! Dave "I wish I wasn't joking so much" Merriman - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Finger merriman(a)metronet.com for PGP/RIPEM public keys and fingerprints. Unencrypted Email may be ignored without notice to sender. PGP preferred. Remember: It is not enough to _obey_ Big Brother; you must also learn to *love* Big Brother.

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