December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the (fwd)
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Jim Choate writes: > Bill Stewart <bill.stewart(a)pobox.com> > > Absence of coercion doesn't mean absence of cooperation. > > Please demonstrate what about anarchy will coerce (there is no other term) > individuals to do what is best for their neighbor. Jim, This is the central disconnect between you and the other side. You obviously have as a core assumption that people should be /required/ to do what is best for their neighbor. Most anarchists would reject that assumption. Instead, an anarchist would say "The best thing I can do for my neighbor (and the only thing I 'owe' him) is to leave him alone." That is, I have no affirmative obligation to do anything for my neighbor to make his life better. All that being said, it may be in my own best interests to do "what is best" for my neighbor; then, if my house should catch fire, I have a much better chance that my neighbor will help extinguish the fire. > In the process you will > need to demonstrate as well why other systems prevent or prohibit such > expression currently. Non sequitur. I'm pretty nice to my neighbors now. Aren't you? This has nothing to do with any government. The defenders/proponents of anarchy here aren't saying that government prevents the function of any of the anarchist mechanisms. Rather that government is an unnecessary and onerous burden on its subjects. > Explain how it works, it's that simple (and repeated for about the umpteenth > time). What's to explain? As has been described on this list countless times, the examples of natural 'anarchist' behavior abound in everyday life. Who makes you get up each morning and go to work? What is it that (only) government does that makes it possible for you to go to the grocery store, or buy gasoline, or go to the movies, or sell your professional services, or any of the other countless aspects of life that would go on with or without government? > I find another aspect of anarchism pretty interesting, that is the level of > cooperation and homogeneity it would require for people to work together. > They have to give up various expressions of their religions and personal > beliefs in order to participate, othewise they let the assholes house burn > or whatever. Why so? I do not share a religion with any of my neighbors, yet I would gladly help if one of their houses was on fire. I do not share a religion with most of the people I work with (or race, gender and other attributes); yet I have no difficulty working with most of them. What "expressions" would I see from my neighbors were it not for the Wise and Just Hand of Government? Or do you mean I should be /Required/ to live and work with people whose personal beliefs or religion I find offensive or repugnant?

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DCS-NY: Dec. 15 Meeting: Win Treese of Open Market
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text Delivered-To: dcs-ny-announce(a)piermont.com To: "recipient list suppressed" <perry(a)piermont.com> Subject: DCS-NY: Dec. 15 Meeting: Win Treese of Open Market Reply-To: dcs-ny-rsvp(a)piermont.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) From: "Perry E. Metzger" <perry(a)piermont.com> Date: 17 Nov 1998 12:54:49 -0500 Lines: 110 Sender: owner-dcs-ny-announce(a)piermont.com [If you know of people who may be interested in this meeting, please feel free to forward this message to them.] The next luncheon meeting of the Digital Commerce Society of New York (DCS-NY), will be held on Tuesday, December 15th at 12:00. If you are interested in attending, please RSVP and send in your check (as explained below) as soon as possible. [Note: This month, DCS-NY will be on the third Tuesday of the month, not the second, because of scheduling conflicts.] This Month's Luncheon Talk: Does Internet Commerce Really Need a PKI? Win Treese Corporate Systems Architect Open Market, Inc. treese(a)openmarket.com It is now commonplace to claim that a "good PKI" [Public Key Infrastructure] is the technology that will enable the widespread growth of Internet commerce. But what does Internet commerce need from a PKI? Based on our experiences with many kinds of businesses, we will examine some of the real-world security requirements and how public-key systems may be appropriate or inappropriate solutions to those problems. Win Treese is Corporate Systems Architect at Open Market, Inc., (http://www.openmarket.com) a leading vendor of software for Internet commerce. At Open Market, he has worked on many different products and systems, with a particular focus on security for commerce applications. He has previously worked at Digital Equipment Corporation's Cambridge Research Lab and at MIT's Project Athena. He is co-author of the book "Designing Systems for Internet Commerce" (http://www.treese.org/Commerce) In addition, he chairs the IETF Working Group on Transport Layer Security (TLS), and is program chair for the 8th USENIX Security Symposium (http://www.usenix.org/events/sec99/) WHAT IS DCS-NY? The Digital Commerce Society of New York (DCS-NY) is a spin-off of DCS-Boston (DCSB). We meet once a month for lunch at the Harvard Club of New York -- usually on the second Tuesday of the month -- to explore the implications of rapidly emerging internet and cryptographic technologies on finance and commerce. If you are interested in attending our next luncheon meeting, please follow the directions located below. If you merely wish to be added to our e-mail meeting announcements list, you may send your e-mail address to "dcs-ny-rsvp(a)piermont.com". Perry PS We would like to thank John McCormack for his invaluable assistance in procuring the venue for our meetings. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- HOW TO RSVP: The meeting will start at 12:00 noon on December 15th at the Harvard Club, which located at 27 West 44th St. in Manhattan. The cost of the luncheon is $49.00. To RSVP, please: A) Send a check for $49.00 (payable to "The Harvard Club of New York") to: Harry S. Hawk DCS-NY LUNCHEON Piermont Information Systems, Inc. 175 Adams St., #9G Brooklyn, New York 11201 Please include along with your check: 1) The name of the person attending 2) Their daytime phone number 3) Their e-mail address B) Send an email message to dcs-ny-rsvp(a)piermont.com indicating that you have sent your check. The receipt of your check is your actual RSVP. We use the email to insure that nothing gets lost in the mail. You will get email from us once the check is received. Making final arrangements for our room requires that we have a good idea of how many attendees we will have. Because of this, it is very important that you RSVP quickly so that we will be able to get a larger room if necessary. All checks must be received no later than Friday December 11th. If you are uncertain that your check will arrive by the correct date, please use a messenger or express mail service. The late fee is $75 per person paid with a corporate check or money order. We will always try to accommodate everyone we can, even at the last minute. However, we can not guarantee that those who have not RSVPed will be seated. *Please* try to RSVP. Please note that the Harvard Club dress code requires jacket and tie for men and comparable attire for women. If you have special dietary requirements, please check with us by email before you RSVP. We are looking forward to seeing you! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Perry --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)philodox.com> Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism <http://www.philodox.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

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Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 14:00:53 -0500 > From: Michael Hohensee <mah248(a)nyu.edu> > Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the (fwd) > > > Just because you don't have a social institution that announces > > > that it has the job of killing anybody who competes with it or > > > fails to obey its proclamations of the will of the majority > > > doesn't mean you don't have social institutions. > > > > Nobody claimed that Bill, straw-man. > > Now wait a minute, which side was it that said that an "anarchistic > society" was an oxymoron? It wasn't me, I said it was axiomaticaly contradictory. A oxymoron is two terms with contradictory meaning used together (eg deafening silence). You know, that we can't have a society > without a state? Than anarchy is sooooo screwed. The state is nothing but an organization which kills > anyone who doesn't obey its will (however that will is determined, or > however many orders it will give you before disobedience is fatal). That's your rather self-serving definition. A state, used as a synonym for government, has a much broader group of responsiblities. By > saying this, you *are* saying that it is necessary to "have a social > institution that announces that it has the job of killing anybody who > competes with it or fails to obey its proclamations of the will of the > majority" in order to have *any* social institutions (i.e., to have a > society). Demostrate please. I have not said, nor said anything that implies that. I have said that people have a right to self defence and as an extension the need of armies and other such institutions are an extension of that. I also believe that police should exist and should have the responsibility to use deadly force, just not in as many instances as now. Anarchist would leave it to the individual to decide, a bad precidence. > *We* weren't the ones who raised that strawman. ;) No, *YOU* are exactly the ones who raised it. ____________________________________________________________________ Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want the right answers. Scully (X-Files) The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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RE: Question about anarchic systems and natural disasters (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > From: "Brown, R Ken" <brownrk1(a)texaco.com> > Subject: RE: Question about anarchic systems and natural disasters (fwd) > Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:30:18 -0600 > No-one's yet noticed that my Jim's house burning down is a problem for > his neighbours. I noticed, it's been interesting the way it was dealt with... > Of course, that applies to cities, not to the country - but cities are > where it's at. We have volunteer fire depts. here in Texas (and most other states I've been in). Typicaly they have no equipment, no training, and no money. But, hey, they'll save the slab. ____________________________________________________________________ Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want the right answers. Scully (X-Files) The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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FC: More on Network Associates and its crypto-politics
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text X-Sender: declan(a)mail.well.com Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:44:01 -0500 To: politech(a)vorlon.mit.edu From: Declan McCullagh <declan(a)well.com> Subject: FC: More on Network Associates and its crypto-politics Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-politech(a)vorlon.mit.edu Reply-To: declan(a)well.com X-Loop: politech(a)vorlon.mit.edu X-URL: Politech is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/ Cabe Franklin <cabe.franklin(a)cbpr.com> forwards this statement from Wes Wasson, director of marketing for Network Associates' security division: >"NAI officially withdrew from the Key Recovery Alliance in late 1997. In May >of 1998, NAI acquired Trusted Information Systems, which had been an active >member of the KRA. NAI subsequently reliquished the leadership role TIS had >taken in the organization. NAI Labs' TIS Advanced Research Division continues >to monitor the KRA's activities from a technical perspective, but Network >Associates in no way advocates mandatory key recovery." >- Cabe Franklin (NAI PR) >415-975-2223 TIS supports export controls on encryption products. My article: http://www.well.com/user/declan/pubs/cwd.shadow.cryptocrats.0298.txt -Declan -------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- the moderated mailing list of politics and technology To subscribe: send a message to majordomo(a)vorlon.mit.edu with this text: subscribe politech More information is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)philodox.com> Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism <http://www.philodox.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

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ANNOUNCEMENT: RPK SECURITY ADDS NOTED XIONICS EXECUTIVE GARY AMBROSINO TO BOARD OF DIRECTORS
by Jack Oswald / CEO / RPK Security Inc. 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

You have received this message because at some time in the past your name was submitted to our e-mail mailing list database. If you do not wish (or no longer wish) to receive announcements, updates and news concerning the RPK Encryptonite Engine or the RPK InvisiMail e-mail security products, please forward this message to remove(a)rpkusa.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- CONTACT Paula Miller Lyn Oswald Nadel Phelan, Inc. RPK Security Inc. 408-439-5570 x277 212-488-9891 paulam(a)nadelphelan.com lynoswald(a)rpkusa.com FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE RPK SECURITY ADDS NOTED XIONICS EXECUTIVE GARY AMBROSINO TO BOARD OF DIRECTORS San Francisco, California, October 27, 1998 - RPK Security Inc. (www.rpkusa.com) a technology leader in fast public key encryption, today announced that Gary Ambrosino, recent vice president and general manager of Xionics Document Technologies (Nasdaq:XION), will join its Board of Directors. Following a recent round of seed financing, Mr. Ambrosino's addition to the Board is part of RPK's overall strategy to expand its management team. Prior to joining RPK, Mr. Ambrosino spent five years at Xionics where he led the marketing and early stage sales program for the company's Multifunction Peripherals embedded control technology. Mr. Ambrosino has headed several seed stage technology companies, and spent eight years with Hewlett-Packard. "We are pleased to welcome Gary to our Board of Directors," said Jack Oswald, president and CEO of RPK Security. "His experience in driving business development and his extensive industry knowledge will be extremely valuable in the next phase of growth and deployment of our Encryptonite software and FastChip encryption technology into applications like secure remote printing." "RPK Security has now reached, on schedule, several significant milestones," said Mr. Ambrosino. "These milestones include completion of a very low cost, high-speed encryption chip, the release of the Encryptonite development platform, and continued growth in acceptance of RPK InvisiMail, the world's easiest-to-use secure E-mail add-in." RPK's core technology, the patented RPK Encryptonite Engine, is an exceptionally fast public key algorithm for encryption, authentication and digital signatures. It offers a unique combination of the benefits of public key systems and the high performance characteristics of symmetric or "secret key" systems. RPK Encryptonite is available as a software toolkit or a high speed ASIC capable of large key encryption speeds of up to 100 megabits per second. Applications include streaming video and audio narrowcasting, secure cellular and satellite telephones, and VPN implementation. Developed outside of the U.S., the RPK Encryptonite Engine is available globally with strong encryption, unlike competing products that are restricted by U.S. export regulations. ABOUT RPK SECURITY Founded in 1995, RPK Security, Inc. is a technology leader in fast public key encryption. RPK's cryptographic research and product development is based in New Zealand, Switzerland and the U.K, with worldwide sales and marketing in San Francisco, CA. Contact RPK at www.rpkusa.com or (212) 488-9891.

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statgraphics....
by Bernardo B. Terrado 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Could someone give me a copy of statgraphics for dos or windows? I would gladly appreciate it. Thank you very much. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "If a student is particular about his studies, especially while he is too young to know which are useful and which are not, we shall say he is no lover of learning or of wisdom; just as, if he were dainty about his food, we should say he was not hungry or fond of eating, but had a poor appetite. " ---- PLATO By the way, it's Bernie not Bernardo. metaphone(a)altavista.net ``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````

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manners....
by Bernardo B. Terrado 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> Bernardo B. Terrado wrote: > > > > Could someone give me a copy of statgraphics for dos or windows? > > I would gladly appreciate it. > > > > Thank you very much. > > > > I will assume this is a piece of commercial software and respectfully > tell you to go fuck yourself. What kind of fucking list do you think > this is? Well I thought this list was a list of intellectuals, not only good in hacks and coding and programming and the likes but also well "tailored" with their manners, I have posted similar mails asking something but I have never received one like this. At least the less obvious thing to do is to ignore my message, simply delete it!, is that a hard thing to do? I have sent mails asking for something but it is OK with me if they are ignored. My apologies to the list members. Maybe it's time to REMOVE my name in the list. Thank you. It was nice having sent and replied by the members. Thank you for your great help especially for the last months.

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Re: manners and piracy
by Jim Gillogly 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Bernardo B. Terrado wrote: > > Could someone give me a copy of statgraphics for dos or windows? > > I would gladly appreciate it. and then took issue with somebody obscenely taking him to task for asking these lists for a pirated version of this software: > Well I thought this list was a list of intellectuals, not only good in > hacks and coding and programming and the likes but also well "tailored" > with their manners, Bernardo, this package costs in the neighborhood of $900 US. What makes you think the mannered intellectuals you expect to find on these lists would either condone or contribute to software piracy on this scale? Or that they would not take violent verbal objection to the suggestion that they would do so? Take your piracy requests elsewhere. These aren't warez lists. -- Jim Gillogly 29 Blotmath S.R. 1998, 01:12 12.19.5.12.12, 4 Eb 5 Ceh, Ninth Lord of Night

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