December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Wearing RSA shirt to school
by futplex＠pseudonym.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I wrote: > With respect to possession within the U.S., there aren't any > laws stopping you from waving strong cryptography around wherever you like > (at least, not yet). ---- ...and in private email, Jim Ray pointed out that showing the shirt to a foreign national might technically violate ITAR... ---- Yeah, I suppose I overstated it a bit. It appears that if the ITAR do cover the shirt (unclear at present, AFAIK -- any news on the CJR, Raph ?), then flashing it at a furriner could constitute a violation. Thanks for the correction. The gist of my previous message remains: No local or state authority in the U.S. (of which I'm aware) classifies strong cryptography as a munition, weapon, etc. I haven't heard of any restrictions on transporting crypto across state lines, either. Unless the Feds start cracking down on high schools, or the Perl-RSA shirt somehow violates some school dress code, (gang colors ? ;) the original questioner need not fret about his son wearing the shirt to school. -Futplex, just another slimy tentacle of the List Maintainer

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Re: State Charges in Weaver Case
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

A species of Monger named GovtLicensedMurderMonger wrote: > Ray Arachelian wrote: (re: "Just Following Orders" Horiuchi) > > Fine, then what shall we charge the one that gave the order with? And > > what shal be the punishment? If the one who takes the order relinquishes > > reposability, then the one giving the order must be doubly responsible. > Jeez, Ray. If you follow this twisted train of logic, you end up > expecting the President and the Legislature to take responsibility for > the State of the Union. > Are you some kind of godless Commie, or something? You'll certainly > feel foolish when the FBI lab proves that the trigger was pulled by > a drug dealer who was told to do so by a child molester. It's just a > shame that those poor federal agents had to be there to witness the > tragedy. The godless Libertarians are also spouting off the same type of ludicrous claims regarding government officials being responsible for their actions. Like the people we vote for actually had any say in how this country is run... Geez, wise up, guys. GeezMonger ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz 'Enough money to have fed every human on earth' "August 2, 1997, marks the 60-year anniversary of the failed and devastating American public policy of drug prohibition," announced California Libertarian gubernatorial candidate Steve Kubby of Lake Tahoe in a recent -- and refreshingly outspoken -- press release. "Just how big is $400 billion?" Kubby asks. "Adjusted for 1997 dollars, $400 billion is enough money to have fed every human on Earth, each year, for the past 10 years." "As one of the chief architects of the War on Drugs, Lungren has a lot of explaining to do," Kubby said. "What has been accomplished by spending such such an incredible sum of money? We've created the biggest prison system in the history of the world, with more of our own citizens rotting behind bars than any other nation in the world -- and drugs are cheaper and more easily available than ever before, especially to kids. "It's time to hold public officials like Dan Lungren accountable for the tragic waste of money and lives that has produced nothing but more drugs, more violence, more addiction, and more misery." "It is even more puzzling as to why Mr. Lungren thinks his colossal failures in the War on Drugs qualify him for higher public office." The "Kubby for governor" web page is at http://www.alpworld.com/kubby98. Vin Suprynowicz is the assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas Review-Journal. Readers may contact him via e-mail at vin(a)lvrj.com. The web site for the Suprynowicz column is at http://www.nguworld.com/vindex/. The column is syndicated in the United States and Canada via Mountain Media Syndications, P.O. Box 4422, Las Vegas Nev. 89127.

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Oddly enough, Clipper is helpful
by Deranged Mutant 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Despite a few rants about how the NSA has monkeywrenched potential standards for encryption with Clipper (market forces being what they are, even if there were no Clipper we may still have no standard by now...), I think there is oddly a good side to Clipper: the issue has thrown cryptography and security into the public debate, even if marginally. Prior to Clipper, PGP was not featured in national and international features in TV, newspapers and magazines... now a lot of people want their hands on it. People have become aware of communications security issues--very avaerage folks who one might even consider techno-illiterates or luddites are now concerned with the government's ability to listen in and watch them. Think of Clipper as an opportunity to propose something better, as an opportunity to make people more aware of the issue.

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curfew laws
by Mark Hedges 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In response to an earlier thread about curfew laws being unconstitutional, apparently a federal appeals court thinks so too. The San Diego curfew law was struck down on June 9, 1997. The ACLU prosecuted. For the report and a link to the decision see http://www.aclusandiego.org/curfew.html. Mark Hedges

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Re: Spam-killing PGP5/ecash postage plugin Was Re: Remailer chaining plugin for Eudora
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text X-Sender: rah(a)mail.shipwright.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 18:31:17 -0400 To: e$(a)thumper.vmeng.com, mac-crypto(a)thumper.vmeng.com From: Robert Hettinga <rah(a)shipwright.com> Subject: Re: Spam-killing PGP5/ecash postage plugin Was Re: Remailer chaining plugin for Eudora Sender: <e$(a)vmeng.com> Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip 2.0 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:requests@vmeng.com?subject=unsubscribe%20e$> List-Subscribe: <mailto:requests@vmeng.com?subject=subscribe%20e$> At 4:29 pm -0400 on 8/21/97, Somebody wrote: > Sorry, but I think e-postage is among the worst ideas I've ever heard of. I > don't think it's clear that it would eliminate spam. It might even increase > it -- I'll bet the overall costs of email are lower than for paper mail -- But the relative present cost of spam (free) is, um, siginificantly, less than it would cost with e$postage. > and it would be the death of mailing lists. Not at all. At the very least, mail from lists I'm subcribed to could come postage due. And, since I'm the person who's charging postage, sender pays, remember, I could charge free postage to my friends, like the 1000 or so in cypherpunks, or the 300 on e$ and mac-crypto. :-). There are work arounds. Face it, the world is going to specific cash settled auction pricing on internet services, and not bulk, or even probabalistic, pricing. No problem. It'll mean cheaper services in the long run, not only because someone then owns the "commons", but because efficient autonomously run cash-settled auctions are always cheaper than transfer pricing and "planning". It's like comparing the Chicago Board of Trade wheat pit, the world's most efficient wheat market, to the committee which set Soviet wheat production quotas. Notice who was selling wheat to whom in *that* scenario. :-). Reality, economic or otherwise, is not optional... Cheers, Bob Hettinga ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- Where people, networks and money come together: Consult Hyperion http://www.hyperion.co.uk info(a)hyperion.co.uk --------------------------------------------------------------------- Like e$? Help pay for it! See <http://www.shipwright.com/beg.html> Or, for e$/e$pam sponsorship, <mailto:rah@shipwright.com> --------------------------------------------------------------------- --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/

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None
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 07:06 PM 8/21/97 +0200, a confused Zooko Journeyman wrote: >BULL SHIT. Two words used to describe EVERTHING Zooko is about to say. >This is a cop-out, used by emotionally stunted men to excuse >themselves from their solemn responsibility to ethically >justify their own actions and to deal fairly with their fellow >humans. What the hell is an "Emotionally stunted man", any way, Zooko? >By reciting mantras to one another emphasizing their sense of >having been mistreated and their sense of having >_unquestionable_ moral superiority, people in this situation >persuade each other to become more and more fanatical in their >attitudes, less and less in touch with reality, and less and >less compassionate towards the "others" who have been demonized >in the process. I don't see what's fanatical about hating a government. >Note that this process _always_ includes a group of other >humans which are demonized in order to serve as a scapegoat and >as a concrete focus for the participant's negative emotions. Question, Zooko: Who the fuck makes gun laws, helps pass censor laws, anti-freedom and encryption laws, anyway??? >This process is objectively identical to the process >experienced by _all_ hate groups, gangs and nationalists. We don't *demonize*, we put the blame on the guilty. >You are standing in the auditorium, Louis Freeh's face is >displayed on the screen, interposed with film of jackbooted >thugs breaking down your door, and you are screaming wordlessly >at him along with all of your brethren during the Two Minutes >Hate. Think about this, Zooko: You are standing, along with your other sheeple, screaming, throwing objects, at Tim McVeigh, with images of Flag-waving freedom-fighters (terrorists, by government terms) behind his face. >THAT should give you pause for thought, Ray. THAT above should give YOU pause for thought, Zooko. >Listen to me: I might take up arms in the trenches next to you >someday, if it comes to that. I might murder enemies or >civilians in their sleep, if I were convinced that it was the >only way to preserve the people and the ideals that I love. >I might work to deploy ideas and technologies that threaten to >induce social chaos, if I believed that those ideas and >technologies were the only way to ensure the blessings of >liberty and prosperity for my children. And that is what most of us feel. >But I will _never_ take one of these actions while intoxicated >by a cloud of hatred and self-righteousness. I will _never_ >tell myself that I am part of a sacred jihad which absolves me >of all guilt, and I will _never_ re-classify my enemies as >sub-human in order to justify my treatment of them. Sacred Jihads who work to overthrow the U.S. government, in order to establish a more libertarian one? I consider anyone as being sub-human who bursts through my door, armed heavily, and with intent to steal my possesions, and my freedom, and my sovreignity over my house. >So take a fucking BREAK man. Just get up from the computer and >go for a fucking walk in the mountains and think about your >fucking family and loved ones. And I'm sure you'll be thinking the same thing one day if THEY bust down YOUR door, and fire at your wife, holding a baby daughter of yours. If they come at your house with a tank, outside standing, are hundreds of armed ATF agents. If they come to steal your wealth, force you from your house, after seeing your are an enemy of the people, destroy your possesions, and force you to a concentration camp. Think about it, Zooko. Don't close your mind in the shroud of hatred for those different from you.

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Re: ASN.1 and Kerberos version 5
by ethridge＠Onramp.NET 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>I don't think that the concept of ASN.1 is as bad as Jeff makes out. If it >worked >then ASN.1 would be very very usefull. But is just plain don't. > >ASN.1 is worse than useless, it means that a very good idea is rendered >unusable >because of a baddly botched implementation. > I'm not familiar with ASN.1 except for the occasional short piece in various books. But i was under the impression that it was similar to the language used to define TCAP and ROSE standards. These standards are reasonably well defined. I've gotten to the point where i get annoyed when working with protocols that treat everything like abitrarily organized bits and bytes (like NA Cellular protocols and PGP). So, would use of the language used to define TCAP and ROSE applications be a possibility? I've occasionally thought about developing such a protocol for PGP. allen

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Reputations and Reading Preferences
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

(This post has a second part, "Using Web Sites to Get Distributed Ratings," which you might want to read even if the first part looks uninteresting.} Hal has some interesting comments, as usual, about how positive feedback about authors can be integrated into mail readers and news readers. (Or at least I took Hal's post as a jumping off point to think about these issues--again.) I've given this some thought recently, but have reached no firm conclusions, except: it's probably not needed by most of us. That is, I have little interest in what others think. If the herd votes that "America's Funniest Home Videos" is their favorite program, or that Jackie Collins is their favorite author, who cares? At least I don't. I don't read stuff on the basis of a "beauty contest." I suspect the same is true of many others. But Hal was perhaps thinking in terms of the more sophisticated approach of creating scoring systems in which a matrix R[u,v] is created, where each element corresponds to the rating of u given by v. On the Cypherpunks list, for example, with more than 500 subscribers, each of the 500 might have a rating of perhaps 100 of the active posters, maybe only the 20 or 30 most active and memorable posters. (That is, many of you 500 readers would not have a meaningful entry, just because you have posted so little.) And more sophisticated models take into account one's reputation given to the views expressed by others. That is, some of those R[u,v] are discounted, some are held in high esteem. This results in a further weighting of the reputations. As an example, Madonna gives a good rating (0.8) to Da Dogg Pound, but I dislike Madonna and her taste, so I weight her rating accordingly. And one can imagine scoring systems in which cumulative ratings are considered. E.g., a lot of people whom I respect like the works of Thomas Pynchon, so I'll give him a try. (I use a simple scoring system in YA-Newswatcher, though it needs more work, IMO.) Things rapidly spin out of control, in terms of the communication needed, the difficulty of getting participation (like a lot of polls, the most thoughtful often are the least likely to respond), and so on. A few years ago on the Extropians list this was a hot topic, and various "rating systems' were proposed. I recall a particularly complex scheme by Alexander Chislenko which purported to solve this problem...unfortunately, it still looked to me to have the essential characteristics of a beauty contest. Fortunately, I can't see the need. Why not? And what's the better alternative? Here's a recipe which seems to work pretty well, and not just for me: * Apply filters based on one's own likes and dislikes. Killfile some posters, skip some threads, etc. * Periodically get inputs from others that one respects, a la book recommendations, movie reviews, etc. This effectively generates what the mass rating scheme would generate, albeit not identically (how could it?). One's favorite posters get read, and one's favorite posters can make some recommendations of other authors one should look at. Informal, but with many emergent advantages. Using Web Sites to Get Distributed Ratings Concretely, one way to do this is for people to do what Eric Blossom is doing with his "Cypherpunks Lite" mailing list. Or with the Web archives that Todd Masco has been running, and that Jay Campbell just started. Imagine: Rudy the Rater sets up a mail-to-Web-site archive, using whatever these folks above are using. Except, he screens the stuff to separate the bad from the good, using whatever criterion he thinks is right. People either use his site, or don't. (A Web site has some logistical advantages over subscribing to various mailing lists which do the same filtering.) Other services emerge with differing rating criteria, different aesthetic standards of goodness, or even different interests. (Some sites could filter out all of the political posts, others could filter out all the programming posts, etc.) Readers could pick the sites they wish to read, and simultaneously be exposed to authors they might have otherwise overlooked. The authors they like, and the filtering of the site operator, create a "clique" (as in math terminology) that effectively is similar to the vector weighting scheme present in the R[u,v] scheme. An advantage of the distributed site model over the R[u,v] model is the lack of any central coordination, the market anarchy of the process. Shared kill files are another possibility. As kill files become more commonly used, they may be traded around, weighted in the same way as described above. Again, I claim that an adequate and workable solution is not to solve the more general problem of everybody rating everyone else, but just of having access to a limited number of killfiles from people one respects. These approaches are doable today. Especially the distributed Web competing "best of" sites. I may do one myself! (If Jay Campbell lets me have Web stuff on his system.) --Tim May ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^756839 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders are just speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Microsoft TV announces new TV Dinner product
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

INSTRUCTIONS FOR MICROSOFT'S NEW TV DINNER PRODUCT : : You must first remove the plastic cover. By doing so you agree to : accept and honor Microsoft rights to all TV dinners. You may not : give anyone else a bite of your dinner (which would constitute an : infringement of Microsoft's rights). You may, however, let others : smell and look at your dinner and are encouraged to tell them how : good it is. : : If you have a PC microwave oven, insert the dinner into the oven. : Set the oven using these keystrokes: <\mstv.dinn.//08.5min@50%heat// : Then enter: <ms//start.cook_dindin/yummy\|/yum~yum:-)gohot#cookme. : : If you have a Mac oven, insert the dinner and press start. The oven : will set itself and cook the dinner. : : If you have a UNIX oven, insert the dinner, enter the ingredients of : the dinner (found on the package label), the weight of the dinner, : and the desired level of cooking and press start. The oven will : calculate the time and heat and cook the diner exactly to your : specification. : : Be forewarned that Microsoft dinners may crash, in which case your : oven must be restarted. This is a simple procedure. Remove the : dinner from the oven and enter : <ms.nodarn.good/tryagain\again/again.rats!. : This process may have to : be repeated. Try unplugging the microwave and then doing a cold : reboot. If this doesn't work, contact your hardware vendor. : : Many users have reported that the dinner tray is far too big, larger : than the dinner itself, having many useless compartments, most of : which are empty. These are for future menu items. If the tray is : too large to fit in your oven you will need to upgrade your : equipment. : : Dinners are only available from registered outlets, and only the : chicken variety is currently produced. If you want another variety, : call MicrosoftHelp and they will explain that you really don't want : another variety. Microsoft Chicken is all you really need. : : Microsoft has disclosed plans to discontinue all smaller versions of : their chicken dinners. Future releases will only be in the larger : family size. Excess chicken may be stored for future use, but must : be saved only in Microsoft approved packaging. : : Microsoft promises a dessert with every dinner after '98. However, : that version has yet to be released. Users have permission to get : thrilled in advance. : : Microsoft dinners may be incompatible with other dinners in the : freezer, causing your freezer to self-defrost. This is a feature, : not a bug. Your freezer probably should have been defrosted anyway.

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Re: pseudonyms & list health
by suedeenim＠censored.org 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Is this what your looking for? Love Always, Sue Deenim >but what if these people had just stopped subscribing under >their clear name? and started using a pseudonym? > >well, just some musings for those who unabashadly promote pseudonyms >to contemplate. > >--Vlad Nuri > > -- Member Internet Society - Certified BETSI Programmer - Webmistress *********************************************************************** Carol Anne Braddock (cab8) carolann(a)censored.org 206.42.112.96 My Homepage The Cyberdoc *********************************************************************** ------------------ PGP.ZIP Part [017/713] ------------------- M8H,),S$8G>&.WP(8IRA`-M['+`Q%&_C"">5-F%LX@<_Q$;*P'',Q$Z/AA[8M MF=O0H+*%(-S%&>S%+FS&<LS%3(Q&#W1"<]2%`H^;,]^1C$'HBN8PX$4SYAU^ MPGD<Q0ZLA0D+,`MCT!LA**4M[-JPAK9F?40!AJ,CW"'%DR#:'9?Q)3[%<DQ` ------------------------------------------------------------- for next chunk to export --> http://dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/export/

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RE: Cyphernomicon, and a section on Escrow and Reputations
by Pat Farrell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> I know of a couple of alternative places. I too got tired of Netcom's anon ftp server. An unaltered, ASCII copy of Tim's CP-FAQ is available as http://www.isse.gmu.edu/~pfarrell/crypto/CP-FAQ This is a low usage site, so response should be fine. BTW, there is a page for the DC-area Cypherpunks as http://www.isse.gmu.edu/~pfarrell/dccp/index.html And a guide to every US GovernmentWWW page that I could find (including locations of spook facilities) starting at http://www.isse.gmu.edu/~pfarrell/government/usgov.html Other crypto related resources are available starting at http://www.isse.gmu.edu/~pfarrell/crypto.html Pat Pat Farrell Grad Student http://www.isse.gmu.edu/students/pfarrell Info. Systems & Software Engineering, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA PGP key available on homepage #include <standard.disclaimer>

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Re: State Charges in Weaver Case
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Ray Arachelian wrote: > > On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, Mike Duvos wrote: > > > I suppose it has something to do with that "only following > > orders" thing. :) > > Fine, then what shall we charge the one that gave the order with? And > what shal be the punishment? If the one who takes the order relinquishes > reposability, then the one giving the order must be doubly responsible. Jeez, Ray. If you follow this twisted train of logic, you end up expecting the President and the Legislature to take responsibility for the State of the Union. Are you some kind of godless Commie, or something? You'll certainly feel foolish when the FBI lab proves that the trigger was pulled by a drug dealer who was told to do so by a child molester. It's just a shame that those poor federal agents had to be there to witness the tragedy. GovtLicensedMurderMonger

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Breaking Legal News....
by Tim May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

(Apologies if these stories have already been discussed...my ISP is making changes to the system, and outages have ensued...) First, the Ruby Ridge killer Lon Horiuchi will have to leave his protective WitSec program to stand trial for the murder of Vicki Weaver, who was unarmed and whom he fired at recklessly. The charges: manslaughter. (I don't defend the bounty being placed on Horiuchi's head, which I understand is up to $125,000. Them danged militias are practicing AP. My hunch is that old Lon is gonna get shivved one way or another.) Second, charges have also been filed against Kevin Harris, who was tried in a Federal court, and acquitted. Now the state is repeating the trial. (And the litigation was extensive in the Harris case, and Harris was acquitted based on a self-defense argument--for those who didn't follow it, the Feds were lying in camouflage, shot the dog, then the son of Randy Weaver fired at the Feds, the Feds killed the son, then Kevin Harris fired back, killing a Fed. In other words, a classic close quarters fire fight, initiated by the Feds without warning.) As with the Rodney King Four, this is not being called a case of "double jeopardy." If the state charges don't stick, try again in a different jurisdiction, Federal. If the Federal charges don't stick, file in a different jurisdiction, the state. I call this double jeopardy, and I don't see how a reasonable person cannot call it this. Perhaps the Feds can have a victim persecuted (er, prosecuted) first at the local level. If that fails, the state level. If that fails, the Federal level. And should that fail, the World Court in the Hague could take over the case and put Interpol onto the persecuted. Third, the Disneyland case is proceeding. The children "traumatized" by seeing the actor playing Mickey remove his mouse head in front of them. Oh, the horrors! And this is set to be a _jury_ trial. If I were called in and forced to sit on this jury, collecting my oh-so-generous $5 or $10 a day, I'd pull out my H & K and blow someone away. (The hysterical grandmother, acting out her inner demons, deserves a Hasty Pudding prize for overacting and absurdity. You have to see it yourself.) Fourth, and then there's the Florida case of the woman who claimed a CAT machine took away her psychic powers and collected a million dollars in a jury trial. (I lied about this one being "breaking" news...it's actually from Peter Huber's excellent book about frivolous lawsuits and science on trial...I think that was the name of it, "Galileo's Revenge: Science on Trial," or similar.) And the taxpayers gets to pay for most of this shit. --Tim May There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws. Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!" ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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passing on a chuckle (fwd)
by Ray Arachelian 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Noah's Ark... If it happened today And the Lord spoke to Noah and said, "In six months I'm going to make it rain until the whole earth is covered with water and all the evil people are destroyed. But I want to save a few good people, and two of every kind of living thing on the planet. I am commanding you to build An Ark." And in a flash of lightning, He delivered the specifications for an Ark. "Okay," said Noah, trembling with fear and fumbling with the blueprints. "Six months, and it starts to rain," thundered the Lord. "You'd better have the Ark completed, or learn to swim for a very long time." Six months passed, the skies clouded up and rain began to fall. The Lord saw that Noah was sitting in his front yard, weeping. And there was no Ark. "Noah," shouted the Lord, "Where is the Ark?" "Lord, please forgive me!" begged Noah. "I did my best. But there were big problems. First, I had to get a building permit for the Ark construction project, and your plans didn't meet code. So I had to hire an engineer to re-draw the plans. Then I got into a big fight over whether or not the Ark needed a fire sprinkler system. "Then my neighbor objected, claiming I was violating zoning by building the Ark in my front yard, so I had to get a variance from the city planningcommission. "Then I had problems getting enough wood for the Ark, because there was a ban on cutting trees to save the Spotted Owl. I had to convince the U.S. Fish and Wildlife that I need the wood to save the Owls. But they wouldn't let me catch any owls, So, no owls. "The carpenters formed a union and went out on strike. I had to negotiate a settlement with the National Labor Relations Board before anyone would pick up a saw or hammer. Now we have sixteen carpenters going on the boat, and still no owls. "Then I started gathering up animals, and got sued by an animal rights group. They objected to me taking only two of each kind. "Just when I got the suit dismissed, EPA notified me that I couldn't complete the Ark without filing and environmental impact statement on your proposed flood. They didn't take kindly to the idea that they had no jurisdiction over the conduct of a Supreme Being. "Then the Army Corp of Engineers wanted a map of the proposed new flood plain. I sent them a globe. "Right now, I'm still trying to resolve a complaint from the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission over how may Croatians I'm supposed to hire. The IRS has seized all my assets, claiming I'm trying to avoid paying taxes by leaving the country. And I just got a notice from the state about owing them some kind of use tax. I really don't think I can finish the Ark for at least another five years," Noah wailed. The sky began to clear. The sun began to shine. A rainbow arched across the sky. Noah looked up and smiled. "You mean you're not going to destroy the earth?" Noah asked hopefully. "No," said the Lord sadly. "The government already has."

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Re: Inside the Cypherpunks Cult (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 19:24:51 -0700 > From: Tim May <tcmay(a)got.net> > Subject: Re: Inside the Cypherpunks Cult > On the subject of cults, neither do cult leaders sit on panels at the > Computers, Freedom, and Privacy conference and mingle with the leading > lawyers, law professors, NSA employees, and Justice Department > representatives. Never heard of the Pope then... or Reverend Moon perhaps? Or Mother Teresa... Or perhaps the crazy guy from Oklahoma or Kansas or wherever who sat with Bush during the final moments of his first election. I believe he was also there when Desert Storm was launched. Has a big university named after him. Oh Jesus, just can't think of his name... Cults of personality are a function of being human, not what that human does with their time. You are confusing cause and effect. > Where we differ is that first, I don't worry overmuch about what some > foreigners are doing to other foreigners. I take George Washington at his > word: avoid foreign entanglements. Not America's business if the Hutus are > killing the Tutsis, or vice versa, or if the Nazis are killing the Jews, or > vice versa. And, yet, at the same time he had no compunction at all against buying arms and influence from France... Are any of them American Jews?... Remember one thing oh Great Bawana Hunter May... He who stands alone, dies alone. What I would like to see is our favorite TLA jack-booted thugs to surround some poor compound and then find themselves surrounded by thousands of pissed-off gun-toting Americans daring the chicken-shits to do anything about it. Any TLA clown that doesn't put their guns down immediately clearly doesn't make much of the oath they swore to uphold the Constitution. And any soldier who fires on Americans is clearly going against prima facia evidence that the framers intended for American military force to NEVER be used against American citizens on American soil. The soldier who killed the kid down in the valley and got off scott free should face charges of treason. So should his commanders all the way to ole Billary. Consider, the law recognizes a parents right to sue an amusement park because some incidental activity led to emotional distress what prevents us from sueing the federal government for various criminal and civil penalties relating to the physical and emotional suffering their actions have caused. Hell, file a suite in the name of all Americans... ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Participation requires more than just bitching! | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http:// www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Key Recovery Solution # 12 / Re: Socio-Economic Cults (Re: CypherPunk Cults)
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Lucky Green wrote: > Remember this the next time you hear some clueless idiot claim that > industry wants full key recovery. The last thing industry needs is access > to all their confidential information during discovery. Key Recovery Solution # 12: In order to keep the keys safe from the prying eyes of government, industry could escrow them with a private company like INSLAW.

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take The Boulder Pledge now!!!
by cypherpunks＠toad.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Eventually, all spam, and spamscam, would stop if everyone followed the advice of film critic Roger Ebert. He wrote in *Yahoo*: Last spring I was on a panel about "Bad Manners on the Net" at the Conference on World Affairs at the University of Colorado. We agreeed that junk e-mail (then no more than a mote in the eye) could eventually bring the whole cooperative endeavor of online mail crashing to its ruin. On the spot, I devised the Boulder Pledge, and we solemnly crossed our hearts and took it. The Boulder Pledge Under no circumstances will I ever purchase *anything* offered to me as the result of an unsolicited e-mail message. Nor will I forward chain letters, petitions, mass mailings, or virus warnings to large numbers of others. This is my contribution to the survival of the online community. The Boulder Pledge works by making junk mail unprofitable. If nobody *ever buys anything,* spammers eventually will quit. I hope. End the Plague. Raise your right hand. Read aloud [the Boulder Pledge]. Then, pass it on, via Email to 10 or 20 of your concerned friends. Thanks. -- http://131.107.1.68/bbs/msnbc-commerce/710.htm

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ROTFL / Re: Socio-Economic Cults (Re: CypherPunk Cults)
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Ray Arachelian wrote: > > On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, Tim G. May wrote: > > > "When all you have is a gun, everything looks like a target." > > > > Tim G. May > > When all you have are arrest warrants, everyone looks like a drug dealer. > :) "When all you have is spam, everyone looks like Tim C. May." - Dimitri Vulis, KOTM

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Re: State Charges in Weaver Case
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Mike Duvos wrote: > FBI director Louis Freeh said he was "extremely disappointed" in the > charges against Horiuchi, and promised that the Federal Government > would spare no expense in defending him against them. > > Hey, I've got an idea. Is Stephan Jones free? :) No. Give him Jim Bell's lawyer--he can get them to reduce the charges to "making the mortuary smell bad."

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Welfare Solution #389 / Re: Socio-Economic Cults (Re: CypherPunk Cults)
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

William H. Geiger III wrote: > A prime example is the welfair class in America. All their basic needs are > provided for by the State (food, housing, medical, education, ...) and yet > they have the highest crime rates. And make no mistake this isn't 18th > century England where people are stealing a loaf of bread to survive the > majority of these criminal are commiting their crimes to support their > entertainments. Welfare Solution #389: Many in the welfair class have their basic needs met by the government and then steal to buy heroin. How about this? - When a person on welfare is busted for heroin use, or theft to support a habit, the State thereafter sends the person's welfare check to a Crime Restitution fund and lets the person keep stealing, only now it is for the purpose of supplying their own basic needs. The crime rate stays the same, but the victims receive some amount of recompensation. Damn, I'm smart... SmartMonger

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Incoming! / Re: Chiropractic
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Bill Stewart wrote: > And By The Way, Tim, your aura indicates a high level of cynicism, > which interferes with the psychic abilities of people around you. That's not his aura, that's tracer bullets, Bill. Bill...? Bill.......???

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US DoC on anonymizer
by 3umoelle＠informatik.uni-hamburg.de 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/speeches/licomnet_101496.htm "A Vision of Tomorrow: Using Technology to Empower, Not to Control" We also endorse the use of technology to give privacy protection. For instance, individuals can use filtering technologies that read rating tags and block those that fail to achieve a desired level of privacy. PICS technology is being adapted to screen out Web sites that do not adhere to a specified level of privacy protection. Another example is the "anonymizer," which assigns an anonymous identity to a user and allows the user to shield personal information from Web sites that he or she visits.

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Welfare Solution #389
by Lynne L. Harrison 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 07:30 AM 8/22/97 +0200, Anonymous wrote: > >Welfare Solution #389: > Many in the welfair class have their basic needs met by the government >and then steal to buy heroin. > How about this? - When a person on welfare is busted for heroin use, >or theft to support a habit, the State thereafter sends the person's >welfare check to a Crime Restitution fund and lets the person keep >stealing, only now it is for the purpose of supplying their own >basic needs. In NY, when a defendant gets convicted of a crime including a drug offense, s/he has to pay a mandatory surcharge part of which is a Crime Victims' Fee. [Query: who is the victim in a drug case? -- but I digress...]. Also, if it was a crime where the victim suffered financial losses, the defendant not only has to pay the Crime Victim's Fee but also restitution to the victim. Additionally, pursuant to Federal Law, anyone convicted of a drug charge and, who is residing is federally-subsidized housing, becomes subject to eviction proceedings. [Quirk: if one family member is engaged in such business activities, the entire family is captured under the law's umbrella but, again, I digress..]. > The crime rate stays the same, but the victims receive some amount >of recompensation. So-called crime rates are subject to the compilation *and* interpretation of statistics, and for those of us who were lucky enough to have studied Statistics, we know that these so-called statistical rates are ripe for producing the desired results versus providing an accurate statistical account. Case in point: Prior to Reagan's Administration, the Armed Forces were never included in the employed or non-employed categories. Reagan added the Armed Forces to the employed category, and the masses were tickled pink when the government announced that employment rates increased dramatically. >Damn, I'm smart... Since I don't know you, I am in no position to comment. You may be smart, highly intelligent, or a genius - or you may possess the analytical processes of a gerbil. Whichever category you are within, perhaps you should keep in mind the old saying: "It's a thin line between genius and insanity." [A little appetizer for thought...]. ************************************************************************** Lynne L. Harrison, Esq. | Lazlo's Chinese Relatively Axiom: Poughkeepsie, New York | "No matter how great your triumphs or lharrison(a)mhv.net | how tragic your defeats, approximately http://www.dueprocess.com | one billion Chinese couldn't care less." ************************************************************************** DISCLAIMER: I am not your attorney; you are not my client. Accordingly, the above is *NOT* legal advice.

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IPsec product progress
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text Reply-To: rgm3(a)chrysler.com X-Sender: rgm3(a)pop3hub.is.chrysler.com Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 07:11:56 -0400 To: ipsec(a)tis.com From: Robert Moskowitz <rgm3(a)chrysler.com> Subject: IPsec product progress Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-ipsec(a)ex.tis.com Precedence: bulk If anyone will be in Detroit next week tues-thurs and can make it to AutoTech, we will be having a live demonstration of IPsec products interoperating. Things are touch and go. We have had routing and hardware problems that have significantly delayed us. We do have 5 vendors here and on monday I will know exactly what to whom we will be demonstrating real automotive applications secured with IPsec. All of the products are configured for the current ESP DES-CBC explicit and AH HMAC-MD5. Oakley is handling session establishment. We did not get the hardware for the CA in time to set up certificates, so we are using pre-shared keys. Robert Moskowitz Chrysler Corporation (810) 758-8212 --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/

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Welfare Solution #389
by Lynne L. Harrison 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 07:30 AM 8/22/97 +0200, Anonymous wrote: > >Welfare Solution #389: > Many in the welfair class have their basic needs met by the government >and then steal to buy heroin. > How about this? - When a person on welfare is busted for heroin use, >or theft to support a habit, the State thereafter sends the person's >welfare check to a Crime Restitution fund and lets the person keep >stealing, only now it is for the purpose of supplying their own >basic needs. In NY, when a defendant gets convicted of a crime including a drug offense, s/he has to pay a mandatory surcharge part of which is a Crime Victims' Fee. [Query: who is the victim in a drug case? -- but I digress...]. Also, if it was a crime where the victim suffered financial losses, the defendant not only has to pay the Crime Victim's Fee but also restitution to the victim. Additionally, pursuant to Federal Law, anyone convicted of a drug charge and, who is residing is federally-subsidized housing, becomes subject to eviction proceedings. [Quirk: if one family member is engaged in such business activities, the entire family is captured under the law's umbrella but, again, I digress..]. > The crime rate stays the same, but the victims receive some amount >of recompensation. So-called crime rates are subject to the compilation *and* interpretation of statistics, and for those of us who were lucky enough to have studied Statistics, we know that these so-called statistical rates are ripe for producing the desired results versus providing an accurate statistical account. Case in point: Prior to Reagan's Administration, the Armed Forces were never included in the employed or non-employed categories. Reagan added the Armed Forces to the employed category, and the masses were tickled pink when the government announced that employment rates increased dramatically. >Damn, I'm smart... Since I don't know you, I am in no position to comment. You may be smart, highly intelligent, or a genius - or you may possess the analytical processes of a gerbil. Whichever category you are within, perhaps you should keep in mind the old saying: "It's a thin line between genius and insanity." [A little appetizer for thought...]. ************************************************************************** Lynne L. Harrison, Esq. | Lazlo's Chinese Relatively Axiom: Poughkeepsie, New York | "No matter how great your triumphs or lharrison(a)mhv.net | how tragic your defeats, approximately http://www.dueprocess.com | one billion Chinese couldn't care less." ************************************************************************** DISCLAIMER: I am not your attorney; you are not my client. Accordingly, the above is *NOT* legal advice.

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