Welfare Solution #389
At 07:30 AM 8/22/97 +0200, Anonymous wrote:
Welfare Solution #389: Many in the welfair class have their basic needs met by the government and then steal to buy heroin. How about this? - When a person on welfare is busted for heroin use, or theft to support a habit, the State thereafter sends the person's welfare check to a Crime Restitution fund and lets the person keep stealing, only now it is for the purpose of supplying their own basic needs.
In NY, when a defendant gets convicted of a crime including a drug offense, s/he has to pay a mandatory surcharge part of which is a Crime Victims' Fee. [Query: who is the victim in a drug case? -- but I digress...]. Also, if it was a crime where the victim suffered financial losses, the defendant not only has to pay the Crime Victim's Fee but also restitution to the victim. Additionally, pursuant to Federal Law, anyone convicted of a drug charge and, who is residing is federally-subsidized housing, becomes subject to eviction proceedings. [Quirk: if one family member is engaged in such business activities, the entire family is captured under the law's umbrella but, again, I digress..].
The crime rate stays the same, but the victims receive some amount of recompensation.
So-called crime rates are subject to the compilation *and* interpretation of statistics, and for those of us who were lucky enough to have studied Statistics, we know that these so-called statistical rates are ripe for producing the desired results versus providing an accurate statistical account. Case in point: Prior to Reagan's Administration, the Armed Forces were never included in the employed or non-employed categories. Reagan added the Armed Forces to the employed category, and the masses were tickled pink when the government announced that employment rates increased dramatically.
Damn, I'm smart...
Since I don't know you, I am in no position to comment. You may be smart, highly intelligent, or a genius - or you may possess the analytical processes of a gerbil. Whichever category you are within, perhaps you should keep in mind the old saying: "It's a thin line between genius and insanity." [A little appetizer for thought...]. ************************************************************************** Lynne L. Harrison, Esq. | Lazlo's Chinese Relatively Axiom: Poughkeepsie, New York | "No matter how great your triumphs or lharrison@mhv.net | how tragic your defeats, approximately http://www.dueprocess.com | one billion Chinese couldn't care less." ************************************************************************** DISCLAIMER: I am not your attorney; you are not my client. Accordingly, the above is *NOT* legal advice.
At 04:47 PM 8/22/97 +0200, Alex Le Heux wrote:
I Switserland they've gone even further now, and started supplying hardcore herion addicts with free heroin. The results were quite dramatic. Most of the addicts gave up stealing/etc and some even managed to get and hold a normal job. As it turned out, supplying them with free heroin was much cheaper than having them hang around and steal/rob/etc. It also served to reduce the call for extra police, and the call by the police for more rights/weapons/etc.
Of course there is another solution: legalize drugs. The reason why addicts have to steal to support their habit is that the costs of narcotics have been artificially inflated due to prohibition. Medical cocaine wholesales at about $0.50 per gramm. Heroin should be in the same price range. Nobody would have to steal to come up with a few dollars a day. As ususal, the government created the problem and then proudly comes up with a solution involving even more government. As the case is in Switzerland. First they make it too expensive to buy and then they discover they have to give it away to reduce the negative consequences of a situation they created in the first place. --Lucky Green <shamrock@netcom.com> PGP encrypted mail preferred. DES is dead! Please join in breaking RC5-56. http://rc5.distributed.net/
On Fri, 22 Aug 1997, Lucky Green wrote:
As ususal, the government created the problem and then proudly comes up with a solution involving even more government. As the case is in Switzerland. First they make it too expensive to buy and then they discover they have to give it away to reduce the negative consequences of a situation they created in the first place.
Making things more expensive rarely works. Infact, it has the opposite effect. Case in point: I recall many years ago back in high school one of the first business simulations out there came out; the class was split up into different teams, each a company selling competing products. Our team won by raising the cost of the items to the highest price possible. We still had enough simulated suckers purchasing the product to make more money than all the other corporations. Not that this is reflective of real life, but the point is that if you make something very very expensive and hard to get, then you will still have people buying it, not as many as if it were free, but if there is enough demand, you'll make a lot more money than if you were selling volumes of the stuff. Hence the illegalization (is there such a word?) of drugs serves only to make the drug dealers rich. The mob got rich the same way durring prohibition. Want to end the drug problem? Sell the drugs dirt cheap. Treat driving while high the same as driving while drunk. Treat drugs the same as alcohol. Treat junkies the same as alcoholics. The dealers will go out of business, or give them drug selling licenses - same as liquor licenses, and yes, the junkies will get even more addicted, but at least the ones that OD will be evolution in action and will be removed from the gene pool. Certainly, you'll no longer have drug related murders, or dealers buying BMW's. (On a side note: Though I still think selling alcohol on Sundays should be legal, especially to non-xians. This is one law that certainly crosses the separation of church and state... If one isn't Xian, non drinking on Sunday mornings being enforced is discriminatory against non-Xians.) =====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos============== .+.^.+.| Ray Arachelian |Prying open my 3rd eye. So good to see |./|\. ..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were |/\|/\ <--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run |\/|\/ ../|\..| "A toast to Odin, |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/. .+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were.... |..... ======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Mon, 25 Aug 1997, Ray Arachelian wrote: [...]
Want to end the drug problem? Sell the drugs dirt cheap. Treat driving while high the same as driving while drunk.
Of cause such actions should be done within the context of a harm minimlisation scheme (needle echanged ect) - -- Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header. Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep. ex-net.scum and proud You Say To People "Throw Off Your Chains" And They Make New Chains For Themselves? --Terry Pratchett -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBNAG4/6QK0ynCmdStAQH4GAP/fV+xS6qODPeEYFVWScSaDCcc3n9e/B2M F2K8vE9JTsgm1W8Ul/FnzIxGwpCo7PGM8QdQWfouAoF2AtdnKdFWPfsWAnE8/oHx uGzJNPkmRqRZii/cfXSRI+NBAO6SUyICxZQ9PClNhCGdBvEqzLY1KWK8GYhxysNN 4uFtGymnSuc= =PiYB -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <Pine.LNX.3.93.970826025239.104E-100000@shirley>, on 08/26/97 at 02:55 AM, ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} <dformosa@st.nepean.uws.edu.au> said:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
On Mon, 25 Aug 1997, Ray Arachelian wrote:
[...]
Want to end the drug problem? Sell the drugs dirt cheap. Treat driving while high the same as driving while drunk.
Of cause such actions should be done within the context of a harm minimlisation scheme (needle echanged ect)
Amuch better solution would be to put a synthetic Morphine out on the streets that had a mortality rate of say 1/5 for every uses. At least these junkies would the be serveing a usfull purpose as worm food. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNAH1+o9Co1n+aLhhAQFR3QP/YL4Xo8o01DgKTJSKuowv0QqsvvNWwXzn 7t10CzUIn+xOKN0dECTQtSU0aq3SlLfQ4VHKsfILqcbQKfD0MqIbSx4WVFxOl81r 1SpgNPPph3pKyCtIgCwuuonALv2nriRtLtBWxBfbl4/1Bcj2PVsf6huNmyMTvKyy WPApo39AG38= =XnEa -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Lynne L. Harrison writes:
At 07:30 AM 8/22/97 +0200, Anonymous wrote:
Welfare Solution #389: Many in the welfair class have their basic needs met by the government and then steal to buy heroin. How about this? - When a person on welfare is busted for heroin use, or theft to support a habit, the State thereafter sends the person's welfare check to a Crime Restitution fund and lets the person keep stealing, only now it is for the purpose of supplying their own basic needs.
In NY, when a defendant gets convicted of a crime including a drug offense, s/he has to pay a mandatory surcharge part of which is a Crime Victims' Fee. [Query: who is the victim in a drug case? -- but I digress...]. Also, if it was a crime where the victim suffered financial losses, the defendant not only has to pay the Crime Victim's Fee but also restitution to the victim.
Additionally, pursuant to Federal Law, anyone convicted of a drug charge and, who is residing is federally-subsidized housing, becomes subject to eviction proceedings. [Quirk: if one family member is engaged in such business activities, the entire family is captured under the law's umbrella but, again, I digress..].
Kicking a drug addict out of his home, or taking away his one source of income is not going to solve anything. It'll only make things worse. Worse for the addict and for society. This will only serve to remove the addict even further from society and thereby make him more of a burden for that same society. Here in The Netherlands we treat drug addiction more as a disease than as a crime. We try to intergrate him/her back into the normal world of having a house, paying rent, getting a job, etc. I Switserland they've gone even further now, and started supplying hardcore herion addicts with free heroin. The results were quite dramatic. Most of the addicts gave up stealing/etc and some even managed to get and hold a normal job. As it turned out, supplying them with free heroin was much cheaper than having them hang around and steal/rob/etc. It also served to reduce the call for extra police, and the call by the police for more rights/weapons/etc. Criminalizing drug offences is a Bad Thing. Unfortunately our own government is slowely succumbing under the international pressure, and soon we'll have our own War On Drugs here. This will serve no one, not the addict, not the casual user and not the general public. Probably it'll only serve the various law enforcement agencies. Alex /// I dabble in techno-house and sometimes, /// I do that badass hip-hop thang... /// But the F U N K gets me every time!
At 7:47 AM -0700 8/22/97, Alex Le Heux wrote:
I Switserland they've gone even further now, and started supplying hardcore herion addicts with free heroin. The results were quite dramatic. Most of the addicts gave up stealing/etc and some even managed to get and hold a normal job. As it turned out, supplying them with free heroin was much cheaper than having them hang around and steal/rob/etc. It also served to reduce the call for extra police, and the call by the police for more rights/weapons/etc.
The Swiss friends we visited earlier this week agree that this policy has had positive effects. We passed a park in Zurich that had formally been used by heroin addicts as a "shooting gallery", and was now being used by ordinary citizens including families with small children. They mentioned the change in the park as one of the benefits of the new policy. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | The Internet was designed | Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | to protect the free world | 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz@netcom.com | from hostile governments. | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA
participants (7)
-
? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} -
alexlhï¼ yourchoice.nl -
Bill Frantz -
Lucky Green -
Lynne L. Harrison -
Ray Arachelian -
William H. Geiger III