January 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Sifreli TV/Uydu Yayinlari Artik Bedava!...
by Net-Pa.Internet.Marketing.Center.Ltd.Sti.＠minder.net 05 Jan '03

05 Jan '03

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Re: Dossiers and Customer Courtesy Cards
by Eugen Leitl 05 Jan '03

05 Jan '03

On Sat, 4 Jan 2003, Sunder wrote: > Not in any 1U system that I know of unless you mean multiple racks. It doesn't matter. While NSA builds their own hardware, you can as well think in terms of vanilla Dells. > The biggest ATA drives I see on the market today are 200GB. Most 1U > systems won't hold more than two of these. That's nowhere near 1TB! Dell 1U have three drive bays. Whether it's 200 GB, or 300 GByte or TByte apiece (such drives exist) or how many U they occupy it doesn't matter, as this is an order of magnitude estimate. > Also you're forgetting about doing backups; and I don't know about you, I would not do backups for raw signint data. (If I would have to do backups I'd use RAID at disk or mirrored servers). I would do backups for targeted and destilled data, which is a tiny fraction of the entire sea of nodes. > but I get a fuckload more email than 1K/day. Granted, averaged out over The point is not how much you're getting (personal mail, mailing lists are redundant, so is spam -- NSA could offer the best spam filtering sources ever), the point how much people are _writing_. On the average. > the entire population of the earth - what over 99% of don't even have > email, it may well be 1k/day/person. > > Further, you'd want more than one GigE port on these machines just so as > to deal with the traffic. Off-shelf Dells come with twin GBit Ethernet ports. You can throw in other interconnects which scale better. The traffic is not that high, if you remember that you can hold entire's day email traffic in your hand. > And you'll need lots of cage monkeys to run around replacing failed disks. > Do the math if the MTBF of one disk is 10,000 hours, what is the MTBF of > say 2 spindles (disks) per machines multiplied by 10000 machines? One > failure every 5 hours? Hell, that's even assuming MTBF is that high! How much cage monkeys do you need to deal with a hardware failures in a 10 kNode installation which happens a few time in a workday? One. Two, if you want to deal with the failure immediately. You should look at personnel requirements and failure rate for COTS clusters in academic environments. > Have you see: http://www17.tomshardware.com/column/200210141/index.html ? > > You're probably also discounting the sheer amount of bandwidth required to > copy all that data, route it to each of those thousands of 1U nodes, and Email and fax and telex are easy. Voice might be tight. Dunno about videoteleconferencing, not many people are doing it yet. > then analyze it near real time and provide the ability to search through > the results. Oh, You'd need several such centers since the worlds data > flows aren't centralized. The system I mentioned was an illustration that you can process entire world's traffic in a single, not very large hall. On a very unremarkable budget. Yes, you can centralize the world's traffic (a TBit/s fiber link can feed one kilonode), but you don't have to. You can just switch the individual clusters into a grid with dedicated fiber lines, and treat it like a whole. It's just a database, after all. > I wonder what the specs are for those nice Echelon centers already in > existence.... Likely they're very different from what you propose. I have no idea what the specs are. All I'm saying that it can be done, now. The capabilities grow a lot faster than the number of subjects to survey, though threshold countries coming online (see DSL numbers for Chinese users) will result in a sudden surge of growth. After the world has saturated new growth will only come from intermachine traffic and new forms of communication (broadband video feeds). One would hope that by then the bulk of that traffic is encrypted, making gathering data largely an exercise in futility.

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Conférence & foire GeD 2003 GOL Conference & Tradeshow www.goltraining.ca
by Norm McKee 04 Jan '03

04 Jan '03

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Re: Dossiers and Customer Courtesy Cards
by Sunder 04 Jan '03

04 Jan '03

Not in any 1U system that I know of unless you mean multiple racks. The biggest ATA drives I see on the market today are 200GB. Most 1U systems won't hold more than two of these. That's nowhere near 1TB! Also you're forgetting about doing backups; and I don't know about you, but I get a fuckload more email than 1K/day. Granted, averaged out over the entire population of the earth - what over 99% of don't even have email, it may well be 1k/day/person. Further, you'd want more than one GigE port on these machines just so as to deal with the traffic. And you'll need lots of cage monkeys to run around replacing failed disks. Do the math if the MTBF of one disk is 10,000 hours, what is the MTBF of say 2 spindles (disks) per machines multiplied by 10000 machines? One failure every 5 hours? Hell, that's even assuming MTBF is that high! Have you see: http://www17.tomshardware.com/column/200210141/index.html ? You're probably also discounting the sheer amount of bandwidth required to copy all that data, route it to each of those thousands of 1U nodes, and then analyze it near real time and provide the ability to search through the results. Oh, You'd need several such centers since the worlds data flows aren't centralized. I wonder what the specs are for those nice Echelon centers already in existence.... Likely they're very different from what you propose. ----------------------Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--------------------------- + ^ + :NSA got $20Bil/year |Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\ \|/ :and didn't stop 9-11|share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\ <--*-->:Instead of rewarding|monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/ /|\ :their failures, we |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/ + v + :should get refunds! |site, and you must change them very often. --------_sunder_(a)_sunder_._net_------- http://www.sunder.net ------------ On Sat, 4 Jan 2003, Eugen Leitl wrote: <SNIP> > I think you're being very conservative here. You can package several > GBytes of memory and about a TByte worth of EIDE RAID drive into a 1U > system with dual GBit Ethernet. A single facility with a redundancy pool > of spares could contain 10^3..10^4 nodes, running for about a > megabuck/year for juice and air conditioning. 10 PByte of nonvolatile > storage and ~40 TByte of RAM accessed by dual CPUs could easily run data > mining on the entire Earth's population (in reality only a fraction of it > which generates traffic will be of interest), especially if they run > custom dbase code out of core, and use nonvolatile storage mostly as > libraries. > > Assuming there are some 100*10^6 users each of them is sending a 1 kByte > pure text email/day a single HD drive will hold a day of world's worth of > email traffic, uncompressed. Good quality human voice compresses to about > 1.5 kByte/s. Above assembly could store about 3 hours of 100 million > people jabbering simultanously. You can of course also run voice > recognition either in realtime, or do batch processing of selected stuff > from the library. <SNIP>

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Re: Dossiers and Customer Courtesy Cards
by John Kelsey 04 Jan '03

04 Jan '03

At 01:46 PM 12/31/02 -0800, Bill Stewart wrote: ... >The scalability of the problem is much different depending on your goals. >If you want to sort through the transcriptions of people who >bought drugs and knives and airline tickets but no luggage >in an effort to find potential terrorists, that's useless. >But if you've already got a suspect, like a Green Party member >who wrote an annoyed letter to the President and threatened to >tell her Congresscritter in person what a bad President he is, ... It's worth pointing out that if you can afford to do the computerized part of this search for your top 16 suspects today, you'll be able to do it for your top thousand suspects in less than ten years, just assuming processing and storage gets cheaper at current rates.... --John Kelsey, kelsey.j(a)ix.netcom.com

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Hiya!
by marvislb＠net4u.com 04 Jan '03

04 Jan '03

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Tarzan code
by Michael J. Freedman 04 Jan '03

04 Jan '03

Hi everybody, So tonight I threw up a tarball of Tarzan's code, after finally updating it against new releases of its dependencies. It's released under the GPL. http://pdos.lcs.mit.edu/tarzan/ Unlike tor, Tarzan is an IP-layer anonymizing system, so faces different problems and different complexity. Roger suggested that I announce this on or-dev. Unfortunately, I don't plan on continuing developing Tarzan actively anymore. If anybody else is interested, please drop a line. Thanks! --mike ....if America were tempted to ''become the dictatress of the world, she would be no longer the ruler of her own spirit.'' What empires lavish abroad, they cannot spend on good republican government at home: on hospitals or roads or schools. A distended military budget only aggravates America's continuing failure to keep its egalitarian promise to itself. -- John Quincy Adams (extended)

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Tarzan code
by Michael J. Freedman 04 Jan '03

04 Jan '03

Hi everybody, So tonight I threw up a tarball of Tarzan's code, after finally updating it against new releases of its dependencies. It's released under the GPL. http://pdos.lcs.mit.edu/tarzan/ Unlike tor, Tarzan is an IP-layer anonymizing system, so faces different problems and different complexity. Roger suggested that I announce this on or-dev. Unfortunately, I don't plan on continuing developing Tarzan actively anymore. If anybody else is interested, please drop a line. Thanks! --mike ....if America were tempted to ''become the dictatress of the world, she would be no longer the ruler of her own spirit.'' What empires lavish abroad, they cannot spend on good republican government at home: on hospitals or roads or schools. A distended military budget only aggravates America's continuing failure to keep its egalitarian promise to itself. -- John Quincy Adams (extended)

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Re: constant encryped stream
by Peter Fairbrother 04 Jan '03

04 Jan '03

Get the "pull" from a "party popper" and wrap it in a dollar bill. Record the serial number of the bill (some crypto here maybe). Make it impossible to open the closet without setting the "pull" off, ie no trapdoor. Fairly good tamper-evidence, and the token is hard (and very illegal!) to forge. Also the dollar bill is still spendable, so the only cost of your accesses are the "pull"s. Depends on your threat model, of course. -- Peter Fairbrother

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Re: Using Brin to thwart ISP subpoenas
by Steve Schear 03 Jan '03

03 Jan '03

At 12:41 PM 1/3/2003 -0500, you wrote: >On Thu, Dec 19, 2002 at 06:16:48PM -0500, Trei, Peter wrote: > > A year or two ago, I suggested to someone associated with > > http://www.thebunker.com (an ISP based in an underground > > ex-RAF bunker in Britain) that they set up a web-accessible > > camera on the entrance, so that anyone could detect an > > attack in progress. > >Hmm. Why couldn't any corporate officer of an ISP be served at home, >on the golf course, in a car on the way to work, at a grocery store, >etc.? And why couldn't the court order say "be silent?" If cypherpunks >and the general pubilc know about such security practices, the TLAs >would as well. One of my parallel suggestions was to have all the officers and directors non-resident foreigners. steve

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