September 2001 - cypherpunks-legacy

Fwd: FW: there is no Keyser Soze
by Bill Stewart 25 Sep '01

25 Sep '01

> >Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 02:13:47 -0700 > >Subject: there is no Keyser Soze > >From: Faisal Jawdat <faisal(a)faisal.com> > >To: farber(a)cis.upenn.edu > > > > http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,2001320012-2001330486,00.html > > > > Article too long for me to meaningfully excerpt from. > > It essentially says that terrorists we've caught are > > not who we thought they are, and it implies that the > > deception is apparently much wider and deeper than > > just some FBI fumbling with mistaken identity. > > > > -faisal > > > > > >For archives see: http://www.interesting-people.org/

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re: [texas-hpr] ATF letter (fwd)
by citizenQ 25 Sep '01

25 Sep '01

BATF planted that post as a troll so then they could peek at the IP of anybody hitting that URL, knowing they came from rocketry-texas-hpr(a)yahoogroups.com >To: Jim Choate <ravage(a)einstein.ssz.com> >Cc: sci-tech(a)einstein.ssz.com, The Club Inferno <hell(a)einstein.ssz.com>, > cypherpunks(a)einstein.ssz.com >Subject: Re: [texas-hpr] ATF letter (fwd) > >Not Found >The requested URL was not found on this server. >Please check the filename requested and/or the link that you followed.

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hono2000coverlet
by R.N.Yadav 25 Sep '01

25 Sep '01

------------------ Virus Warning Message (on relay) Found virus TROJ_SIRCAM.A in file hono2000coverlet.doc.lnk The uncleanable file hono2000coverlet.doc.lnk is moved to /etc/iscan/virus/virmtIsDm. --------------------------------------------------------- Hi! How are you? I send you this file in order to have your advice See you later. Thanks ------------------ Virus Warning Message (on relay) hono2000coverlet.doc.lnk is removed from here because it contains a virus. ---------------------------------------------------------

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[texas-hpr] ATF letter (fwd)
by Jim Choate 25 Sep '01

25 Sep '01

---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 01:20:32 -0000 From: chuck_webb001(a)yahoo.com Reply-To: rocketry-texas-hpr(a)yahoogroups.com To: rocketry-texas-hpr(a)yahoogroups.com Subject: [texas-hpr] ATF letter May be worth checking this out....not that anyone hasen't already.. http://www.atf.treas.gov/press/fy01press/09190/notice.htm Chuck ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/MDsVHB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/PMYolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

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Re: Democracy is our enemy
by Anonymous User 25 Sep '01

25 Sep '01

----- Original Message ----- From: "Anonymous" <nobody(a)hyperreal.pl> To: <cypherpunks(a)lne.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 5:22 AM Subject: Re: Democracy is our enemy ... > Putting it starkly, who is more evil: John Ashcroft or Mohammed > Atta? I only vote on homepages. > Is it possible that certain cypherpunks find themselves on the same > side as bin Laden and his fundamentalist killers? Do they secretly > support this murderous attacks on innocent civilians? Do you masturbate at work? Which female/male do you think about during those activities? >We now face biological and > chemical attacks, which are supposed to be even more "cruel and > shocking" than the WTC attacks. Are these cypherpunks in favor of > seeing more Americans killed by terrorist actions? Some people want to see dead people even though that could cause shock to face. Believe it or not, Americans want to see Dead Terrorists*. *insert all names of people americans* have wanted to see dead. *not necessarily you. - This is not justification for death. I don't believe in justice per se. > > The philosophical connection becomes even clearer with the frequent > statements by cypherpunks that those who disagree "need killing", > that blood must be shed by those of different political views. In > effect this is a call for a Cypherpunk Jihad (the word is often > translated as "holy war", but "justified struggle" is as valid a > translation). It is no different for Tim May to call for the > extinction of his enemies than for Usama bin Laden to do so. You're trying to censor us by applying your world morals on us. Say, make it law - be bold, please. > Cypherpunks need to take a hard look at themselves. Anyone who > feels horror and disgust at the terrorist acts should recognize > that the same sentiments are found here, just below the surface. > The thinly veiled threats of bloodshed are based on the same > philosophy of violent hatred and contempt for others which > motivates the terrorists. A big no no. Words do not kill. Only People or Guns kill People. Posers use words. We are Posers. Why be a moral poser? Do we have to succumb to your political Bullshit Jay Leno Far Edge Funniness Once in a while or can you let us exist in this high vibration of satanic flow? Your Eden, The Earth may not represent us, but why recognize it if we can't see it. > > Tim May and Usama bin Laden are now revealed as philosophical > cousins. It is becoming harder and harder to tell them apart. My name is Legion, for we are many

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Re: Intercepts foretold of 'big attack' -- The Washington Times
by Declan McCullagh 25 Sep '01

25 Sep '01

You're pretty much right.But the Times has some very decent reporters, and get more national security and defense scoops than the Post. -Declan On Mon, Sep 24, 2001 at 01:05:10PM -0400, Trei, Peter wrote: > The Choate wrote: > > > Subject: Intercepts foretold of 'big attack' -- The Washington Times > > > > http://www.washtimes.com/national/default-200192213012.htm > > > Now, isn't the washtimes the paper which is owned by the Moonies? > This doesn't neccesarily mean it can't be a good paper, but it gives > me pause. > > Maybe my info is out of date > > Peter Trei

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Re: Democracy is our enemy
by keyser-soze＠hushmail.com 25 Sep '01

25 Sep '01

At 03:22 AM 9/25/2001 +0000, Anonymous wrote: >>Thomas Leavitt writes: >> I'm tired of hearing my fellow Americans referred to as cowards, >> weaklings, sheep, ignorant, easily mislead - this is a profoundly >> undemocratic sentiment, the same kind of crap spewed by totalitarian >> and authoritarian types from the far left and the far right as >> justification for abandonment of the democratic process and the use of >> force to impose their ideology on the rest of us. >Well said. >There was an article the other day about the terrorists, which made the point that capitalism and fundamentalism were much alike, in that both share a distrust of democracy. The same can be said for the cypherpunks. The same can be said for the framers. That's why we don't have a democracy butthead. >Is it possible that certain cypherpunks find themselves on the same side as bin Laden and his fundamentalist killers? Do they secretly support this murderous attacks on innocent civilians? We now face biological and chemical attacks, which are supposed to be even more "cruel and shocking" than the WTC attacks. Are these cypherpunks in favor of seeing more Americans killed by terrorist actions? I can't speak for others but I don't want to see any more Americans killed by terrorists than have been killed by U.S.-supported right-wing regimes in the past 50 years. Its only when the chickens come home to roost that the true price of our global hegenomy and "victory" against others with different idiologies will be driven home and our foreign policy adjusted accordingly. >The philosophical connection becomes even clearer with the frequent statements by cypherpunks that those who disagree "need killing", that blood must be shed by those of different political views. Not views, actions which impinge on our liberties. >In effect this is a call for a Cypherpunk Jihad (the word is often translated as "holy war", but "justified struggle" is as valid a translation). It is no different for Tim May to call for the extinction of his enemies than for Usama bin Laden to do so. >Cypherpunks need to take a hard look at themselves. Anyone who feels horror and disgust at the terrorist acts should recognize that the same sentiments are found here, just below the surface. The thinly veiled threats of bloodshed are based on the same philosophy of violent hatred and contempt for others which motivates the terrorists. One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter. Asymetrical warfare is here to stay. Get used to it! U.S. citizens feel their hands are clean because our leaders made sure Americans weren't holding the guns which slaughtered tens of thousands. They can't understand why so many now want us dead. What did we do to deserve this? Many of our mid-east puppets have used the U.S. as their whipping boy to deflect criticism from their own oppressive regimes and our tolerance of this over the past decades will now haunt our foreign policy for many years to come. If we want to stop terrorism we need to fix our foreign policy.

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ACTION: Anti-Terrorism Act of 2001
by Matthew Gaylor 25 Sep '01

25 Sep '01

<http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/action.html> URGENT ACTION ALERT The Administration's proposed Anti-Terrorism Act of 2001 is currently scheduled for mark-up by the House Judiciary Committee tomorrow (Tuesday) morning. It is critical that consideration of the legislation be delayed until the Committee holds comprehensive public hearings on the serious civil liberties issues the proposal implicates. The Committee is currently planning to proceed to mark-up after testimony only from the Attorney General and a short, informal "briefing" on the issues that raise constitutional concerns. There is an urgent need for concerned organizations and individuals to contact members of the Judiciary Committee and urge them to delay consideration of the bill until its impact on civil liberties can be carefully and fully considered. These contacts need to be made IMMEDIATELY to delay tomorrow morning's scheduled mark-up. Committee members and their contact information follows. It would be particularly useful if constituents of these members express their concern. Please forward this alert to your members, affiliated organizations and appropriate mailing lists. Judiciary Committee List Name, party, state, phone, fax, e-mail: James Sensenbrenner, Chair, R-WI, (202) 225-5101, (202) 225-3190, sensen09(a)mail.house.gov Henry Hyde, R-IL, (202) 225-4561, (202) 225-1166. John Conyers Jr., D-MI, (202) 225-5126, (202) 225-0072, john.conyers(a)mail.house.gov George Gekas, R-PA, (202) 225-4315, (202) 225-8440, askgeorge(a)mail.house.gov Barney Frank, D-MA, (202) 225-5931, (202) 225-0182 Howard Coble, R-NC, (202) 225-3065, (202) 225-8611, howard.coble(a)mail.house.gov Howard Berman, D-CA, (202) 225-4695, (202) 225-3196, Howard.Berman(a)mail.house.gov Lamar Smith, R-TX, (202) 225-4236, (202) 225-8628 Rick Boucher, D-VA, (202) 225-3861, (202) 225-0442, ninthnet(a)mail.house.gov Elton Gallegly, R-CA, (202) 225-5811, (202) 225-1100 Jerrold Nadler, D-NY, (202) 225-5635, (202) 225-6923, jerrold.nadler(a)mail.house.gov Bob Goodlatte, R-VA, (202) 225-5431, (202) 225-9681, talk2bob(a)mail.house.gov Bobby Scott, D-VA, (202) 225-8351, (202) 225-8354 Steve Chabot, R-OH, (202) 225-2216, (202) 225-3012 Mel Watt, D-NC, (202) 225-1510, (202) 225-1512, nc12.public(a)mail.house.gov Bob Barr, R-GA, (202) 225-2931, (202) 225-2944, barr.ga(a)mail.house.gov Zoe Lofgren, D-CA, (202) 225-3072, (202) 225-3336, zoe(a)lofgren.house.gov William Jenkins, R-TN, (202) 225-6356, (202) 225-5714 Sheila Jackson Lee, D-TX, (202) 225-3816, (202) 225-3317, tx18(a)lee.house.gov Christopher Cannon, R-UT, (202) 225-7751, (202) 225-5629, cannon.ut03(a)mail.house.gov Maxine Waters, D-CA, (202) 225-2201, (202) 225-7854 Lindsey Graham, R-SC, (202) 225-5301, (202) 225-3216 Marty Meehan, D-MA, (202) 225-3411, (202) 226-0771, martin.meehan(a)mail.house.gov Spencer Bachus, R-AL, (202) 225-4921, (202) 225-2082 William Delahunt, D-MA, (202) 225-3111, (202) 225-5658, william.delahunt(a)mail.house.gov John Hostettler, R-IN, (202) 225-4636, (202) 225-3284, john.hostettler(a)mail.house.gov Robert Wexler, D-FL, (202) 225-3001, (202) 225-5974 Mark Green, R-WI, (202) 225-5665, (202) 225-5729, mark.green(a)mail.house.gov Tammy Baldwin, D-W, (202) 225-2906, (202) 225-6942, tammy.baldwin(a)mail.house.gov Ric Keller, R-FL, (202) 225-2176, (202) 225-0999 Anthony David Weiner, D-NY, (202) 225-6616, (202) 226-7253 Darrell Issa, R-CA, (202) 225-3906, (202) 225-3303 Adam Schiff, D-CA, (202) 225-4176, (202) 225-5828 Melissa Hart, R-PA, (202) 225-2565, (202) 226-2274, melissa.hart(a)mail.house.gov Jeff Flake, R-AZ, (202) 225-2635, (202) 226-4386 ************************************************************************** Subscribe to Freematt's Alerts: Pro-Individual Rights Issues Send a blank message to: freematt(a)coil.com with the words subscribe FA on the subject line. List is private and moderated (7-30 messages per week) Matthew Gaylor, (614) 313-5722 ICQ: 106212065 Archived at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fa/ **************************************************************************

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Re: RE: Expectation of privacy in public?
by Robert 25 Sep '01

25 Sep '01

----- Original Message ----- From: "Trei, Peter" <ptrei(a)rsasecurity.com> To: <cypherpunks(a)lne.com> Sent: Monday, September 24, 2001 1:24 PM > > Cal. Penal Code ' 631, 632 (Deering 1999): It is a crime > in California to intercept or eavesdrop upon any > confidential communication, including a telephone call or > wire communication, without the consent of all parties. > It is not a crime for an agency of another country to eavesdrop on you as long as they are physically located outside the U.S. Similarly, it is not illegal for a US agency to intercept messages in another country, as long as they do it from outside the that country. This is how (if it really does exist) the Echelon network works. Agencies in Canada, England, Australia etc. intercept messages in the U.S. and then pass on the intelligence to their U.S. counterparts. This information sharing by-passes legal jurisdictional limits. Robert Andrews Is your personal data exposed? http://www.PrivacyExposed.com

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Re: [silk] Re: Avoid hard targets tomorrow (fwd)
by rishab＠dxm.org 25 Sep '01

25 Sep '01

hey tim, maybe you remember me from the early days of cypherpunks(a)toad.com. just wanted to butt in here and reply to your post which i saw forwarded to some other list... it beats me why americans and the western media generally likes to get worried about the "most dangerous spot in the world" and "next nuclear warzone" that is south asia, given that everyone in india and pakistan knows neither country will use any nuclear weapons. the border population density is too great in both countries and population centres close enough that any major attack by one country on the other will have a direct fallout on both (taking delivery range into account). besides, neither govt is or has been remotely close to dreaming of nuclear attacks, though pakistan occasionally talks about them in the hope of getting america worried enough to get involved in the dispute over kashmir. indians and pakistanis don't worry about nuclear war because we know that the nuclear tests were for attention - india has had the Bomb since 1974, and pakistan has been known to have it for a decade. india carried out the tests because it felt the us was ignoring india (media coverage of "asia" typically limited itself to east asia) and wanted more attention. obviously pakistan had to show that it was as good as its neighbour. that's it. india's govt has been quietly (and cynically) satisfied at these events, because now, as some people have said, "the US finally wants to do something about the terrorists and training camps India's been complaining about for years." india won't get involved in pakistan's troubles. rather, it hopes the US will somehow manage to shut down the training camps and networks which harbour groups that attack india... and if that puts pakistan's govt in a tight situation, well that's just a nice little bonus isn't it. -rishab > From: Tim May <tcmay(a)got.net> > To: cypherpunks(a)lne.com > Subject: Re: Avoid hard targets tomorrow > If the growing street protests/riots in Pakistan (Pesawar, Karachi, > Islamabad) trend toward a new ultra-Islamic, pro-Taliban government, I > expect India to strike first. India cannot allow a nuclear state on its > border with Taliban leanings. India will knock out Pakistan's nuclear > capabilities if it can. > A nuclear war between India and Pakistan will utterly dwarf recent > events, will crash the Dow to 1000, and will have other profound > consequences.

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