December 2001 - cypherpunks-legacy

TheBostonChannel.com - Helen Thomas - What's After Phase I?
by Jim Choate 19 Dec '01

19 Dec '01

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/helenthomas/1129426/detail.html -- -- ____________________________________________________________________ Day by day the Penguins are making me lose my mind. Bumper Sticker The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: Does your business accept credit cards? ...
by Uran233＠aol.com 19 Dec '01

19 Dec '01

Michael Leary 412-798-9885 after noon EST

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BE SUCCESSFUL IN FINDING COLLEGE AID!!!
by g15949＠newmail.ru 19 Dec '01

19 Dec '01

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Trying to get in touch with BeOutdoors.com employee
by John Gorenfeld 19 Dec '01

19 Dec '01

Hi, I'm a reporter with a newspaper in Thousand Oaks, California. I was wondering whether anyone knew how to get in touch with "SeaChelle," who posted on here a year ago claiming to know the secret of the BeOutdoors.com spam. Thanks. John

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Randy Hoffman's spam e-mail
by John Gorenfeld 19 Dec '01

19 Dec '01

Hi, this is John Gorenfeld, reporter from the Thousand Oaks Weekly Acorn. I read your post about BeOutdoors.com and spam e-mail. Since Hoffman is running for office, it was interesting to read he was allegedly a spammer. Can you tell me more about this? John

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Pay per use remailers and remailer reliability tracking.
by Len Sassaman 19 Dec '01

19 Dec '01

Dear Cypherpunks and other unsavory characters, I was recapping for some other remops a conversation that Tim sparked at the last cypherpunks meeting regarding pay-per-use remailers, and I had some additional thoughts. I'm not an expert on digital cash, so please pardon me if I make any obvious errors. I welcome criticism of these ideas and explanations as to why they won't work as well as tips for improvement. I've been thinking about how to create pay-per-use remailers for some time. The reasons for needing a remailer payment system are obvious: aside from handling spamming and flooding, it would encourage more people to run remailers. If a remailer operator can expect to make money off of a remailer, or at least recoup his losses, he's more likely to do so. (Discussion of how liability changes when money is involved is for a different time.) "Digital cash" in the traditional sense isn't necessary for a pay-per-use remailer system. Like MojoNation, I am going to refer to the digital cash coins as something that has no monetary value in the traditional sense. Tim pointed out at the last meeting that what we think of as "money" has no inherent value. If you think of the remailer digital cash coins as tokens with a very specific purpose, a lot of the objections to using digital cash disappear. Additionally, I am assuming that there would be a suitable digital cash algorithm that could be used for these purposes. I am aware that there are algorithms similar to Chaum's in existence, but my level of knowledge isn't sufficient to know if they would work for these purposes. In any event, the Chaum patents expire soon enough. In this scheme, while the anonymity of the token buyer is essential, neither the bank nor the seller will have their anonymity protected. The system would work as follows, from the point of view of the user: The user would purchase remailer tokens (digital cash) from a token vendor (the bank). This is an exchange similar to car wash tokens or TicketMaster[tm], where the seller receives "real cash" and the buyer receives a tangible promise of a future service. The tokens could be purchased online using PayPal, credit cards, etc. (Yes, this means the number of paying remailer customers must be large enough to constitute a crowd.) The user than fires up his remailer client, and each remailer has pricing and token service information associated with its key and reliability stats. (In this system, multiple token vendors could exist, and remailers could be their own vendors. For simplicity's sake, I am going to assume that all remailers in this user's client accept the same ticket vendor's tokens.) Each remailer sets a price (i.e., number of tokens) for its use. Remailers could even charge a different amount depending on where in the chain it fell, with exit hop services costing more than beginning/middle chain positions. The user would select his chain based on the reliability stats and the pricing information for each remailer. The client would tally the cost, and when the user approved, it would remove tokens from the user's "purse" and attach them to the outgoing message, interwoven in the various layers of encryption in the message. Now, from the remailer's point of view: A message is received, and the encryption stripped off. Inside is a remailer token, which the remailer redeems with the token vendor after ensuring that the token covered the price of the message (accumulating a balance in his account, which can then be exchanged for cash by the remop.) The message is then delivered to the next hop, and so forth. I came up with this idea after an interesting conversation with Bram Cohen one night, and then after researching it realized that others had said basically the same thing. I'm interested in hearing problems with the above proposal, but for now I am going to assume it is sound. I have a further enhancement to this system that I just now realized might be possible, and this is what I'm really interested in discussing. One of the big problems with remailers currently is reliability. We can attempt to make remailer software more stable, place remailers on better, faster systems, add message redundancy to the protocol, etc., and we still don't eliminate the major flaw receipt verification. There is no way to report back to a message sender that a message did not make delivery, so when something does go wrong, the end user rarely has any idea why. Hal Finney discussed this, and a possible solution to the problem, here: http://nymip.velvet.com/pipermail/nymip-res-group/2001-August/000146.html If a system as I have described above were to be implemented, we could solve this problem (as well as the inevitable problems of remailers cheating and collecting payment without delivering mail, and the problem of double-spending) without having to reveal any useful information to an attacker who doesn't already have ability to observe the entire mix network. If the remailer client were to keep track of which tokens were paid to which remailer, the user could determine where in a chain message delivery failed, or if the message exited the last hop (not exactly the same as if it was delivered, but close. The last remailer could cheat, or the recipient's mail server could fail. There's ways to improve this, though.) After the remailer redeems the token with the token vendor, the token vendor publishes the token. No one but the user and the remailer know which message a given token was linked to, so information leakage is minimized. The user can query the token vendor for the most recent token redemptions, and will be able to determine where his message either is currently waiting in the chain, or where it died. (This isn't exact either. Failure, in this case, is pinpointed at the link between two remailers, rather than at a given remailer. If a user queried the bank and discovered that, out of a 5 remailer chain, remailers A, B, and C redeemed the tokens but D did not, this either means C is cheating, C is broken on sending, or D is broken on receiving. Further tests would be necessary to determine the exact nature of the failure.) Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Reasons why the payment system would not work? Reasons why the verification system would not work? Improvements to either system? Thoughts on the specifics of the digital cash algorithms needed? --Len.

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Talley and gbroiles offline taken offline by Speakeasy
by Greg Broiles 19 Dec '01

19 Dec '01

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- The Talley remailer is temporarily down (as well as my high-speed access; this msg is sent via CDPD modem); my DSL was disconnected by Speakeasy.net related to complaints about the Talley remailer. (Apparently the complaints are important enough to justify shutting off my service, but nobody's available to explain who sent them, which messages generated them, which addresses got things they didn't want to get, or so forth.) Anyway, Talley will return (likely pretty soon) when I find good connectivity for it; my personal email is accessible, but very slowly. Cpunks who are looking for DSL or dialup connections might want to avoid Speakeasy and their ad hoc disconnection policy. - -- Greg Broiles -- gbroiles(a)parrhesia.com -- PGP 0x26E4488c or 0x94245961 Eliminate due process, civil rights? It's the Constitution, stupid! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP Personal Security 7.0.3 iQEVAwUBPCEuCf37pMWUJFlhAQFwNgf+PjKr5otSC7u/COCnvuvF9txF6tX9W2eI cSCizda+qyftO9InfqD9+TltA8hvmOgYGPgD5HoRf5Nv3D1naRNOHXt7tNsCRxLg 5G2Rm/vq0hjFkzURUeAPMXxspc9qE/VztCvLiKvbJyvBSU6khxMQMCzrzRvZYEGP 0V/QHYcR0LtqHmhQn/+xWqGicZGtxitpJtL8way+A+qrv0HQK/SSfAh7382mqZ4o OjQ2k0ozes6bfj8A5UzOldCayCYL11DLrFTelr8SC9peqztiLJuFe0B39kLRhDDs a29fzpjtuihHEaN20FD+7dQXajrOkSYJt39pF2vUh8qH6iX5oU+ciA== =J78g -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Axed Intel Man Loses E-Mail Case
by Sunder 19 Dec '01

19 Dec '01

Ok, show of hands.... Who here claims to be a member of CACL? Ok, of those who claim to be members of CACL's, who claims to be a self-appointed CACL genius? Tim? Declan? Anyone? ----------------------Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--------------------------- + ^ + :Surveillance cameras|Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\ \|/ :aren't security. A |share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\ <--*-->:camera won't stop a |monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/ /|\ :masked killer, but |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/ + v + :will violate privacy|site, and you must change them very often. --------_sunder_(a)_sunder_._net_------- http://www.sunder.net ------------ On Thu, 13 Dec 2001, Jim Choate wrote: > On Thu, 13 Dec 2001, Gil Hamilton wrote: > > > It's interesting to note how much more pleasant Choate was in his > > early days on the list. In those days, he was not so intent on > > showing everyone that he was an authority on all possible subjects. > > That was before I knew what kind of sharks swim in this pool. You don't > like my interaction then change yours. I treat you people the way you > treated me back then. I didn't start it. Go talk to Tim, Delcan, and the > rest of the self-appointed CACL geniuses. > > You reap what you sow. > > > -- > ____________________________________________________________________ > > Day by day the Penguins are making me lose my mind. > > Bumper Sticker > > The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate > Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com > www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 > -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- > --------------------------------------------------------------------

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ok, you win... please help
by The Silence Booking 19 Dec '01

19 Dec '01

Ok, i am not gonna reply with a mean reply. I hope you can understand what is going on. Let me please explain, and mabey you can help me. I have four emails I use to book bands for my business, these are the emails: TheSilentBooking(a)yahoo.com TheSilentmusic(a)Yahoo.com TheSilenceKills(a)yahoo.com TheArmyOfSilence(a)yahoo.com Now, as of about a week ago, mabey less, i started to recieve stuff from CDR: Mailing list. Now, again, i woulnt have a problem with you sending me mabey a mailer aday, but, i am getting over 60 emails in my inbox. Just this morning, i had 132 emails in this email alone, which overloaded my yahoo account. I have looked at the Unscribing methods, and on my fathers grave I have. I have tried everything to be removed.I get replied with "Unscribe No Reconized". Now, for one, i just want this to please stop. I dont know how i got on her, mabey someone is playing a joke on me, I dont know, and they added me? but, again, all my emails are getting these CDR: replies. What can i do to have this stop, Again , i have tried what you said and its not working. I dont want any trouble from you, honestly, i just want to get back to business. My emails is the only way i communicate over the country with clubs and bookers and bands. If you can give me step my step instruction, that would help. mabey i am a moron, but, i do need some help here. Best Regards, Steve Juliano ===== MSM Management 5713 Harco St. Long Beach, CA 90808 Office: (213) 760-2258 Http://www.thesilencemusic.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

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gezerolee for a french
by JACQUELLE jean-louis 19 Dec '01

19 Dec '01

hello i would like to know where i can find "gezerolee box v1.01" thank you

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