November 2000 - cypherpunks-legacy

CDR: RE: A very brief politcal rant
by Bill Stewart 10 Nov '00

10 Nov '00

At 12:51 AM 11/10/00 -0500, Ernest Hua mimed : My original point still stands.  The voters should get what they want, unless they want something clearly illegal.  That's a clear Yup. And they should get it good and hard.... (Man, your mailer is broken...) Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart(a)pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639

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CDR: Re: A successful lawsuit means Gore wins!
by George＠Orwellian.Org 10 Nov '00

10 Nov '00

Jim Burnes > wrote: # I could stomach 'might be illegal', but illegal? George(a)orwellian.org wrote: > Warren Christopher was just on TV, calling the ballot illegal. > Let's leave it at that until a court decides. Declan, King of the Wired, wrote: # Warren Christopher, the arbiter of truth? Right... I said the courts would be. James "too damn bad about the 19,000" Baker ain't no piece of cake either, FYI. ---- Heh-heh-heh. Perot threw in with Bush, pissing off Bucanan. Buchanan now says most of his Palm Beach County votes are actually Gore's. Pat Buchanan and Jesse Jackson united!o (Looking around for hellfire blast prior to anti-Christ arrival...)

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CDR: Minesweeper and defeating modern encryption technology
by Carskadden, Rush 10 Nov '00

10 Nov '00

http://digitalmass.boston.com/news/daily/11/01/minesweeper.html from the article: "Proving the conjecture false would mean that modern encryption technology, the foundation of electronic commerce, would be open to easy attack." Isn't that a little general? Possibly jumping to some hasty conclusions about P versus NP as well? ok, Rush

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CDR: RE: A very brief politcal rant
by Ernest Hua 10 Nov '00

10 Nov '00

Um ... this is a good technical argument, but it does not address the basic premise that what the voters wants is what the voters should get. There is no question what the voter wants. They knew ahead of time that they would be voting for a dead man's wife. The appointment may be technically flawed, but for a judge to throw this out would require finding a serious problem. Technicality is probably not a serious enough problem to go against the electorate. Ern -----Original Message----- X-Loop: openpgp.net From: Jim Burnes [mailto:jburnes@savvis.net] Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 9:13 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: A very brief politcal rant On Wed, 08 Nov 2000, William H. Geiger III wrote: > In <973697805.3a09730d4e448(a)webmail.cotse.com>, on 11/08/00 > > at 09:36 AM, brflgnk(a)cotse.com said: > >If the citizens of Missouri chose to elect a deceased person as Senator, > >I think that's exactly what they should get. Leave the seat empty for > >two years. > > Someone had brought up the Constitutionality of having a dead man on the > ballot. The reasoning was that the deceased are no longer legally citizens > and therefore do not meet the Constitutional requirements for office. Even more significant is that a dead man cannot take the oath of office. If he can't take the oath of office he can't occupy the office. The governor only has the power to replace a senatoratorial position if the current office holder dies. Since Carnahan died before he took office, the office remains unfilled. The governor does not have power to appoint senators willy-nilly. The office must be held before it can be filled. The correct solution would be to hold a special election so that the public has a chance to know who they are voting into office. What the democrats are afraid of is that his wife might be less fit to hold that office than her husband in some democrat's minds (after debates etc). Here is a question? Would it be vote fraud to run one person's name on the ballot and replace him with someone else when he won? jim -- Sometimes it is said that man can not be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the forms of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question. -- Thomas Jefferson, 1st Inaugural

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CDR: Re: A successful lawsuit means Gore wins!
by George＠Orwellian.Org 10 Nov '00

10 Nov '00

George(a)Orwellian.Org previously wrote: # There's legal precedent for Florida judges # to take corrective action if the will of the # people (their votes) was thwarted. It's started. http://www.gopbi.com/shared/news/politics/florida_gopbi.html # # Judge halts certification of Palm Beach ballots # # The Associated Press # # West Palm Beach -- Presidential ballots in Palm Beach County # can't be certified by the state pending a Tuesday court hearing, # a circuit judge ruled Thursday. # # The preliminary injunction means the county, embroiled in a # controversy over punchcard ballots that allegedly confused voters, # could further delay for days the outcome of the presidential # race between Republican George W. Bush and Democrat Al Gore. # # The order, issued Thursday night by Circuit Judge Kathleen Kroll, # is the result of one of six lawsuits filed in Palm Beach County # by voters who say they may have mistakenly voted for Reform Party # candidate Pat Buchanan instead of Vice President Gore because # of the way the ballot was designed. Two other lawsuits filed # in Tallahassee allege race discrimination in Tuesday's balloting. # # The Palm Beach County voters want a new election in the county. # # In the order, Kroll wrote that based on a lawsuit filed by two # Boca Raton women it appears they would suffer ``irreparable # injury'' if the votes are certified before the case can be heard. # # ``To preserve the electoral process in this presidential election # and the important voters' rights at stake, there is an immediate # need for a resolution in this case,'' Kroll wrote. [snip]

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CDR: Re: [Correction] More blather from the DEMS on FL
by David Marshall 10 Nov '00

10 Nov '00

Harmon Seaver <hseaver(a)harmon.arrowhead.lib.mn.us> writes: > im Burnes wrote: > > > Maybe Ms. Reno still has connections in Dade county. If I were a Republican > >I'd demand chain of evidence from any so-called 'lost' ballots. > > > OTOH, it's gwbush's brother runs the state, eh? 8-) And didn't the exit > polls say Gore won? Gov. Jeb Bush of Florida has reclused himself from supervising it, citing his obvious conflict of interest. Exit polls are generally worthless, and are totally unofficial and untrustworthy. Joe Cuban goes into the polls, votes for Bush because he's well-to-do and wants a tax cut for his small business. He leaves, and an exit-poller asks him how he voted. He says that he voted for Gore because he would like to keep his business from mysteriously burning down, his daughter from mysteriously being raped, himself from mysteriously being shot, and maybe his car from mysteriously exploding. This is why we have anonymous voting. If you don't believe that the people in the area are capable of doing that kind of intimidation, I suggest that you turn on CNN (or virtually any other news network) and watch the crowds of morons protesting in Miami. They claim that they were "denied their right to vote" and that their "civil rights were violated" because they were too stupid to: A) Vote for only one candidate. B) Vote for the candidate that they actually wanted. C) Realize that presidential elections are an election for a _pair_ of candidates, one for President, and one for Vice-President. Anybody who thinks that they can vote for more than one candidate for the same office or who doesn't realize that Gore is running for President and Lieberman is his _running mate_ probably shouldn't be voting. once on CNN, there is no cause for confusion. The candidates are clearly marked, and there are arrows pointing to the selector for the appropriate candidate. Whatever Florida state law said about the format of the ballot is irrelevent. It was clearly marked. Anybody who screwed up their ballot should have talked to an election judge. The ballot was designed by a Democrat. The ballot was vetted by both major parties. The ballot was mailed out to the voters in Palm Beach County well before the election and nobody complained. Couple this with the election fraud in Missouri, and we get a situation which is less than appealing. There's also apparent election fraud in Florida, and as close as this election was there will probably be total recounts in Oregon, Iowa, and a few other states. A second election is simply not workable. As Tim May wrote yesterday, the people of Palm Beach would know that they and they alone are electing the President of the United States. Money will be spent to buy each and every voter. There's a massive problem there, which is pretty obvious. A second nation-wide election runs into many similar problems, the biggest of which is people changing their votes to sway the election (e.g. changing from Nader to Gore). I think that the major parties involved had best be very careful about how they handle this, but I fear that there will be major unrest either way. If Gore wins, large portions of the population (much of which consists of white America, which is generally sick of being crapped upon by everything from affirmative action to minority-only programs but is generally too politically correct and fixated on self-preservation to say it) is going to, at the very least, be pissed. At the very worst, they rebel. If Bush wins, the Democratic base (much of which consists of: <fill in the blank>) will probably riot and rebel on a massive scale. The next president, whether it be Bush or Gore, is likely to be a lame duck either way, which is probably a good thing. Meanwhile, the national legislature is fairly evenly split. After watching CNN and listening to the Democrats whine, bitch, and moan, I guess that maybe this is the first shot of the Second American Civil War. I guess I'd better go get more guns to defend myself against rioting welfare fungus which may try to claim that I am a "white capitalist oppressor" and kill me. I just hope the Democrats don't win; I wouldn't want to live in the world of "Harrison Bergeron" where I'm basically lobotomized to bring me down to the level of people who can't read a ballot.

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CDR: Re: A successful lawsuit means Gore wins!
by George＠Orwellian.Org 10 Nov '00

10 Nov '00

There's legal precedent for Florida judges to take corrective action if the will of the people (their votes) was thwarted. Which is how it should be. ---- http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/decision2000/lat_legal001110.htm # # Florida Judges Have Power to Upset Elections # # By DAVID G. SAVAGE and HENRY WEINSTEIN, Times Staff Writers # # # WASHINGTON--Florida's Supreme Court has given judges in the state # broad power to overturn an election if flawed ballots create # "reasonable doubt" that the outcome truly reflects "the will # of the voters." # # The law is not clear, however, on how to remedy such a mistake, # especially when a flawed ballot in one county might have changed # a statewide result--let alone possibly determine the outcome # of a national election for president of the United States. # # "We are in uncharted territory," said University of Florida Law # School Dean Jon Mills. Yet Democratic lawyers in Florida were # pointing Thursday to legal decisions that give them a basis for # going to court to challenge the outcome there because of ballot # confusion in Palm Beach County. # # In an opinion issued in 1998, the Florida Supreme Court said # that disputed elections can be voided even when there is no # evidence of fraud or vote stealing. The justices stressed that # election results should reflect the will of the voters. [snip]

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CDR: Re: A successful lawsuit means Gore wins!
by George＠Orwellian.Org 10 Nov '00

10 Nov '00

This is interesting: an unsuccessful lawsuit can mean Gore wins! ---- [snipped] http://www.nytimes.com/2000/11/10/politics/10DATE.html # # Dec. 18, the day that presidential electors are to meet in 50 # state capitals and the District of Columbia, may produce a # political crisis if Florida's 25 votes are still in dispute. # But the crisis will not be constitutional, scholars say, for # the Constitution enables a president to be chosen even if a big # state like Florida does not vote. # # The Constitution requires only that a winning candidate have # the votes of "a majority of the whole number of electors # appointed." If Florida's votes are not resolved by then, or if # a legal restraining order bars Gov. Jeb Bush from filing a # certificate listing Florida's electors, then Mr. Gore has enough # votes from other states, if current vote totals stand and if # his electors keep their pledges, to reach a majority of the 513 # electors actually appointed. # # In either of those cases, or if either Mr. Gore or Mr. Bush gets # Florida's votes, the House of Representatives would have no role # in choosing a president, other than to participate in a Jan. # 6 ceremonial counting of the votes in a joint session with the # Senate.

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Re: CDR: Re: More blather from the DEMS on FL
by Evan 10 Nov '00

10 Nov '00

what the hell is the electoral college still doing in existance? it should have gone out w/ unlimited presidential terms.... voting with their conscience my ass.... voting in a partisan fashion is more like it ===== <img src="http://www.geocities.com:80/TimesSquare/5415/Signiture.jpg"> __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/

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CDR: RE: BSA deploys imaginary pirate software detector vans
by Simpson, Douglas S 10 Nov '00

10 Nov '00

yep was suposidly done for them at Cambridge in UK - thought they rejected it though? SOFT TEMPEST Article: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/ih98-tempest-slides.pdf http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/ih98-tempest.pdf Kindest Regards Douglas Simpson Manager - National PKI Services ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ KPMG Information Risk Management The KPMG Centre 45 Clarence Street Sydney NSW 2000 Australia Ph: +61 2 9335 8612 Mb: +61 410 581 588 Fx: +61 2 9299 7077 E-mail: dssimpson(a)kpmg.com.au Smoke Signal: Puff---Puff-Puff-Puff Morse:... .. _ _ ._ _. ... _ _ _ _ . ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: Neil Johnson [mailto:njohnson@interl.net] Sent: Friday, 10 November 2000 11:27 To: cypherpunks(a)EINSTEIN.ssz.com; cryptography(a)c2.net; cypherpunks(a)cyberpass.net Subject: Re: BSA deploys imaginary pirate software detector vans Wasn't there some articles some time ago about Microsoft doing research into Tempest/Van Eck (sp) radiation ? It was speculated at the time that they were going include software to "broadcast" their serial numbers so that illegal copies could be detected. I wonder how the Supreme is going to rule on that case where the police used an infrared camera to determine they had probable cause to go after a marijuana grower based on the heat radiating from his house ? Neil M. Johnson njohnson(a)interl.net http://www.interl.net/~njohnson PGP Key Finger Print: 93C0 793F B66E A0C7 CEEA 3E92 6B99 2DCC ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. A. Hettinga" <rah(a)shipwright.com> To: <cryptography(a)c2.net>; <cypherpunks(a)cyberpass.net> Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 7:05 AM Subject: CDR: BSA deploys imaginary pirate software detector vans > > --- begin forwarded text > > > Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 10:13:26 +0000 > To: usual(a)espace.net > From: Fearghas McKay <fm(a)st-kilda.org> > Subject: BSA deploys imaginary pirate software detector vans > Reply-To: "Usual People List" <usual(a)espace.net> > Sender: <usual(a)espace.net> > List-Subscribe: <mailto:usual-on@espace.net> > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/14562.html > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > BSA deploys imaginary pirate software detector vans > By: Kieren McCarthy > Posted: 08/11/2000 at 10:57 GMT > > The Business Software Alliance aka The Pirate Busters is growing so > frustrated in its hopeless efforts to cut down on software piracy > that it has decided propaganda and misinformation is the way forward. > > Visitors to Glasgow Central Station yesterday were surprised to be > confronted by a Ford Transit van with a small radar and rusty Sky > satellite dish mounted on top. What was this apparition? Why, the > BSA's latest weapon in the war against software-stealing scum. > > A wise reader asked one of the "consultants" what exactly the dishes > were able to do and was informed they could detect PCs running > illegal software. When pushed a little further, she admitted the van > was "just a dummy" but the BSA still had a fleet of the real things > rushing around Scotland detecting and nabbing unsuspecting criminals. > > Expressing incredulity, things turned nasty and our loyal reader was > threatened. He'd "better watch out" because the BSA with its new > super software-finding equipment will "get him easily". He quickly > ran off and slid into the shadows before he was photographed and his > face wired to Interpol and the CIA. > > Can you believe this? This has to be one of the most insane things > we've heard in years. The BSA needs to take a valium and lay down for > a bit. ® > > Related Stories > BSA offers £10K bounty to catch software thieves > > --- end forwarded text > > > -- > ----------------- > R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)ibuc.com> > The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/> > 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA > "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, > [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to > experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' > ********************************************************************** " This email is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above and may contain information that is confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this Email is strictly prohibited. When addressed to our clients, any opinions or advice contained in this Email are subject to the terms and conditions expressed in the governing KPMG client engagement letter. If you have received this Email in error, please notify us immediately by return email or telephone +61 2 93357000 and destroy the original message. Thank You. " **********************************************************************...

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