- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

No Subject
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>Doesn't the act of taking it across the border, in the laptop, constitute >an act of export?? Well, yes it would, but the original scenario includes WRITING the code outside of the US, which means it never was a US creation, even if the creature that happened to be writing the code was native to the US. The question is whether the dude could pull a stunt like this and get away with it. I'd say go for it. You got a plausible loophole to a stupid law that might not hold in court anyways. -Anon

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[noise/rant] Re: Anonymous trashing of Jim Bell
by Alan Olsen 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

[Some people will object to this thread, and rightly so. This is very off topic. I understand it is off topic. But it needs to be said... If you don't want to read this, hit 'n' or equivalent now. I also request that responses to this be made in private e-mail and not to the entire list.] [Also note that I stripped off the references to the Libertarian list and the Democracy now list and avoided the urge to add the psychoceramics list.] Jim, I used to take your postings at least semi-serious. I ignored the ad hominem as much as I could and tried to concentrate on the validity of the arguments. I had difficulty with many of your ideas, but I have that problem with many people so it was not a big deal... Then I met you at the Portland Cypherpunks meeting. You blew whatever credibility that you had with me at that time. At that meeting you made claims that were fantastic and beyond belief. You gave no evidence to support those claims, just relying on some sort of future "proof". (Sorry, but the burden of proof in these sort of cases lies on the claimant, not the rest of the audience.) Assassination politics is immensely credible compared to your plan to disable electronic equipment. (And that is saying alot.) Assassination politics suffers from a number of problems. The biggest being its difficulty in being implemented. Such a system would suffer from Federal agents posing as hit men, outright fraud, and attempts to destroy the system from within and without. I have seen nothing that makes me believe it could ever be put into place. I have yet to see you address any of the flaws without resulting to flames and rant. Unfortunately, you would rather attack your critics than deal with the flaws in your beliefs. The following is an example... At 08:30 PM 1/26/96 -0800, jim bell wrote: >At 01:54 AM 1/27/96 +0100, Anonymous wrote: >>Jim Bell writes: >> >>>While this would normally be my cue to offer up my "Assassination Politics" >>>idea, which (if presumed to be correct) would stabilize "anarchy" and >>>prevent "lawlessness and social disorder" (at least as normally seen by the >>>average reader) I think that under the circumstances that would be redundant >>>here. >> >>I'm not *sure* that your Assassination Politics trip is the worst piece of >>tripe I've ever seen on the list, but if it's not, it's right up there. > >I notice that you responded through an anonymous remailer, and didn't even >use a nym. This is strange. If anything, the people who criticize my idea >seem to be under the illusion that it is _I_ who should be embarrassed for >proposing it, and in fact vociferously promoting it. "Those of you" who >object to it should be the ones who are "proudly" taking the "moral high >ground" and thus should be happy to identify yourself and defend your position. There are reasons why an individual would do that. Maybe they did not want to create a nym just to respond to one message. Maybe they thought that you would recognize their other nyms. Maybe it is someone you know. Whatever the reason, it does not diminish their arguments. >Even if, arguably, you invented the fiction that you feared for your life >trying to argue with people like me, nothing prevents you from developing a >stable nym and arguing your position using it, secure in the knowledge that >your body is safe from attack. Your arguments would still be subject to >sudden death, however. You think very highly of your arguments, but have shown nothing that would make me believe that you could actually do that without resorting to ad hominem attacks. In fact the poster brings up some interesting questions which you totally ignore, due to your unwavering belief in your pet theory. All you do is flame him, instead of dealing with the immense flaws in that theory. >>Those of us who are anarchists > >What?!? You imply that you are an anarchist, yet you don't approve of a >system which might not only produce anarchy, but in fact in record time? >Well, EXCUUUUUUUUSE MEEEEEE! Sorry to put you out of a "job." Not all anarchists believe in killing others. Sorry, but there are as many variety of anarchy as there are anarchists. As for the results of "Assassination Politics", you have yet to show that it would produce any results whatsoever, or if it is even possible to implement. In fact, I cannot see a way that it can be put into place without everyone involved being put in jail. >> are often that way because we think the *means* the State uses are evil, >>not to be excused by any amount of mumbo-jumbo. > >I think the state's ENDS are evil, too, not merely their MEANS. Yet you never explain why it is valid to use evil to fight evil. It is this lack of willingness to discuss the details of your beliefs that make people unwilling to take your ideas seriously. >> And you gleefully propose to let us *all* in on the immoral game of >>murdering those who annoy us sufficiently. > >Actually, if you followed my arguments carefully, you will notice that my >position is most accurately described by pointing out that I _could_not_ >keep you from participating in this "immoral game", even if I wanted to. Or not participating... Jim, if annoying people were a qualification for murder, you would need to watch your back pretty damn carefully. But it is not a qualification yet... You have yet to show, however, how your plan could ever be enacted. If it was possible to enact, you would probably be in jail for "conspiracy to commit murder" or some similar charge. Anyone who assisted in such a plan would also risk such charges. The feds are pretty ruthless in ferreting out people who try an hire hitmen. Especially from private citizens. the only people who are able to hire hitmen and get away with it are the heavily funded or the government themselves. Setting up an organization to compete with these groups will not be viewed favorably. >For the record, I suspect some people who are total pacifists view the rest >of us, those willing use use violence to defend ourselves, as "immoral." This is not as easily defendable as self-defense. If you were shooting the politico yourself, then I might agree. But you are not. You are hiring someone else to do your dirty work for you. If you were actually helping out in the slaughter, then i might have a bit more respect for your argument. As it is though, I find it about as toothless as those who eat meat, but are too squeamish to go hunting themselves. >>I'll pass. > >Others won't. The digestibility of your plan has little relevance to its possible adoption... >>You know, if I were constructing an agent provacateur, I'd want a persona >>who's willing to be loudly clueless with ideas that show minimal or >>non-existent awareness of basic human hopes and fears, like security from >>random hit-squads. I'd have him go on and on with his ideas, until >>eventually they can splashed all over headlines and used to discredit the >>whole realm of privacy protection. > >Aha! You're implying (actually, implying is an understatement here) that I >am an "agent provocateur." Naturally, it would be useless to deny this >(although, for the record, I will deny it), because anybody who was >convinced of its truth wouldn't expect me to tell the truth anyway. Nope. The poster is claiming that you are *TOO CLUELESS* to be an Agent Provocateur. You are missing the point. >But hey, let's put it up for a vote. How many people out there believe that >I am an "agent provocateur"? C'mon people, don't be shy, you've seen my >prose. What do the rest of you think? I don't think you are any such thing. I believe that you are convinced of the rightness of your ideas and no amount of rational discourse will sway you from that belief. Being a fanatic does not make you evil or an Agent Provocateur. It does make you less credible though... >>But no, I don't think you're an agent. > >Good! I'd hate to argue with a person who didn't realize I am SERIOUS. You seem to miss the point that the poster was making, but no worry... >> More fool you, you're willing to do the government's disinformation work >>for it without even thirty pieces of silver or a 401K. > >To be perfectly honest, I did a lot of soul-searching in early 1995 about >whether I should publicize my ideas. No, it wasn't because I was AFRAID >that it might happen. I _WANTED_ it to happen. Every little bit. Every >government on the face of the earth, to come crashing down in a heap. >Complete, total, absolute anarchy. (But not the "anarchy" that most people >are pre-programmed to think of...) No more governments, no more borders, no >more taxes, no more holocausts, no more wars, no more politicians. Forever >and ever and ever. > >Rather, I was fearful that by publicizing the idea, I might end up >PREVENTING it from occurring. You know, by giving the governments advance >warning about what was going to happen, I might actually help them prevent it. > >That worried me, a lot. But eventually, I made my decision. After a huge >amount of thought that some day I might be inclined to relate. However, if >I'd REALLY wanted to PREVENT this, I would have alerted the government >secretly, so that they could manipulate things behind the scenes, secretly, >to prevent this "crypto/digicash/internet anarchy." _That_ I did not do. >I publicized it, allowed it to be criticized and therefore "perfected" (not >that it's "perfect, by any means!) it, and I'm now promoting it the best way >I know how. And with all due modesty, it's getting a pretty good reception, >considering how extreme and drastic it initially might appear. > >Part of my reasoning was that unless I engaged in the absurd conceit of >believing that I was, cumulatively, smarter than everyone currently in the >government, I had no choice but to conclude that the government was already >aware of the potential problem. And if that were the case, they were, at >that very moment, working desperately to PREVENT what I wanted, desperately, >to ACHIEVE. > >At that point, I made the choice of forcing the government's hand. The above speaks for itself. (I could say that this is one of the looniest things I have read in a while, but I do take the Psychoceramics list... It is pretty high up there.) It is definitely hard core crankdom of the purest form. If you were a threat to the Government, even a small one, you would have been picked up and put away. You seem to forget that this is an open mailing list. Many of the people who read this list are Government employees. (I am willing to bet that a sizable percentage work in some variety of law enforcement.) They know what you believe and what you are agitating for. But you are not a threat because you are not credible. No one is going to adopt your ideas because every time you open your mouth, you make yourself look like a loon. Not only do you make yourself look like a loon, but every organization and group you associate with looks bad. If you really desire to make your views accepted, you need to look at how you present yourself to others. Willingness to analyze your own belief structures and refine them is a first step. Ability to take criticism is a second step. Without that, your ideas will be taken as the views of an unwavering fanatic. You will not sway many people with fanaticism. >>At this point I recommend to you the 12-step program I explained to Vladimir. >> >>Signed, >>A Friend > >Recommendation: If you really want to be taken seriously, use your real >name or at the very least generate a stable nym. Preferably, with messages >signed by the nym's public key. Without it, you are a silly, unbelieveable >ass. Even with it, you may STILL be a silly, unbelieveable ass, but at >least people would pay more attention to you. I think that you have little to nothing to say about being taken seriously. If you continue to go off on pseudo-science rants at meetings at the drop of a hat, no one will take you serious there as well... Alan Olsen -- alano(a)teleport.com -- Contract Web Design & Instruction `finger -l alano(a)teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key http://www.teleport.com/~alano/ Is the operating system half NT or half full?

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[FACTS] Germany, or "Oh no not again"
by Thomas Roessler 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I had the prosecutor's spokesman on phone today. The result is that someone gave a hint to the prosecutors which explicitly mentioned Zundel, T-Online and Compuserve. Consequently, the prosecutors *had* to start investigations against Zundel, T-Online and Compuserve. In particular, they are right now *checking* whether providing internet access is a criminal offence due to the possibility to gain access to `inciting material' (the German word is `Volksverhetzung') via the Net. This means that it is not even clear whether the investigations against internet providers will be dropped or not; in fact many people believe that these investigatinos *will* be dropped. My personal guess about all this is that some net.citizens are trying to have the prosecutors engaged in absolutely absurd investigations (or, even better, achieve a court room clash on this subject) to get some clarification of the legal situation of the Net in Germany. Quite similar to the RSA T-Shirt story in the States. ,-) tlr

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Sneak Preview!!!
by sneakpreview＠amninc.nu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

CLICK HERE with the word GO in the subject line for a sneak preview of an incredible new website with over 200,000 music CDs, cassettes and more, at the lowest prices on earth. For example: * "Show Me Love" CD single by Robyn * elsewhere $3.95; our price $2.63 * "Tubthumping" CD by Chumbawumba * elsewhere $12.99; our price $10.40 * "To the Moon & Back" cassette by Savage Garden * elsewhere $3.99; our price $2.48 We ship worldwide with low shipping charges, usually $3 for up to six CDs or cassettes. You must CLICK HERE with the word GO in the subject line to receive advance notice. You will *not* receive future e-mail from this address unless you reply.

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No Subject
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

nobody(a)REPLAY.COM wrote: ----------------------------------------------------- Here is description of my stream cipher, it operates one ... ... VB source code: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------------------------------ Who the hell uses VB of all languages - to write a crypto algorithm? And, which sane person uses MicroSucks Winduhz?

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Re: Time codes for PCs (fromn German Banking)
by JR＠ns.cnb.uam.es 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: SMTP%"jimbell(a)pacifier.com" 27-JAN-1996 03:43:05.83 >A peripheral I've long wanted to see, commonly available: ACCURATE time, >broadcast to the millisecond/microsecond/nanosecond, available from sources >as varied as TV VIR's, FM subcarriers, and other sources, available as an >easy input (via a peripheral card) to a computer. > Yup! Do you think it is really possible? If I remember well speed of light is 300.000 Km/s. That means that light takes around 1 ms. to cover 300 Km. If you use a satellite, antenna, whatever to broadcast a timing signal, the accuracy will depend on when do you receive it, and that in turn on your distance from the source. By the time the signal reaches you it may be several milliseconds old (and thousands of microsenconds and millions of nanoseconds). We are so used to think of TV, whatever as an instantaneous broadcast medium that we forget that there are speed limits in the Universe. And you can't exceed them by just paying a ticket. Note that this was a best case scenario: using the speed of light to transfer the information and using the shortest path. In reality most waves won't travel as fast in the air, and will depend on atmospheric circumstances. >I have a 12-year-old Heathkit "Most Accurate Clock" that I assembled myself, >and had the foresight to install it with its computer interface option. >(receives 5, 10, or 15 MHz signals broadcast from Boulder, Colorado, >containing "exact" time.) > Just remember that the best you can get would be microseconds if you're in a 300 meter radius, or milliseconds on a 300 Km. And possibly nanoseconds at 0.3 m. Even then you need to know exactly (i.e. with an accuracy of between centimeters to a few Km depending on the timing you want) your position. And depending on the media you use, possibly the atmospheric conditions in between the emisor and your receptor. Then remains the cypherpunk part on all this: how can you trust the *signal* your receptor receives? How do you know no one is interferring it or sending an inaccurate or false one? So you need a GPS... And a timing source that can be trusted. You'd wantthe signal not to be tamperable or at least to be able to detect when it has been tampered. And that on a broadcast system. A system owned by someone who you may not trust (say a private TV channel, radio or satellite). So you may want to have several sources, and to be able to verify that the signals you receive all come from their respective sources. Yum! a nice problem to think about. One factor is that you wouldn't expect changes in public sources used by sensible systems since those could not pass unnoticed and might raise big protests. But you still have the MITM attack to consider... Oh well, it's too late now. See ya... jr

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Digital rights organisation
by Stephan Schmidt 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi, thinking about what happend in Germany, are there any 'digital rights' organisations in Germany ? If not, we would like to found one. Are there any international orgs (EFF?,...) who can help us ? What goals do they have ? To Germans: How do I found an e.V. in Germany ? Thanks for the help in advance, -stephan

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167 business and financial reports -53016
by 77224.who＠cygnus.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Commercial delegate in Egypt
by awbd＠awbd.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Feb. 18th 1998. . Dear Sirs, I have the pleasure to enclose herewith a copy of my C.V. introducing myself to you as a person of very good experience in Freight Forwarding & International Transportation and in the different commercial services related thereto; and proposing myself for representing your company in Egypt and the Middle East as its own local resident COMMERCIAL DELEGATE looking after your interests and projects in this area. As a matter of fact, among lots of investors, many international freight forwarding & transportation companies have started their own presence in Egypt seizing the opportunity of the economic reformation achieved in this area; as now is the right time for business starting in Egypt. Starting with Commercial Delegation I foresee our final target, in case my proposal meets your interest, is to develop that delegation into the full operating companys branch in Egypt. That is to be achieved gradually by time, but as quickly as possible, through building a good account of clients and by selecting and training an efficient professional work team. In addition to my qualifications shown in my enclosed C.V., I am actually a USA resident as per the Green Card I have got for lawful admission for permanent residence in America (Employment Authorized). Such advantage is considered as a good asset for a person appointed by an American company to represent it as its own Commercial Delegate in the area where he was grown up. Speaking their own language and understanding their mentality and the way they think, such delegate can move among the companys correspondents & agents, its clients, the local official authorities, and any other concerned parties to intervene, for his companys favor, to avoid any probable problems and to enhance the companys achievements in this area. For any further details and/or information, please feel free and do not hesitate to contact me through any of the contact means listed among my personal data in my C.V. attached hereto. You may also contact me, for the time being and until Feb. 24th when I leave back to Egypt, through my address in USA which is as follows: 915 Mount Olive Dr. #3 Duarte, CA 91010 Tel & Fax (626) 357 0243 E-mail: info(a)awbd.com Looking forward to getting the honor of working with your esteemed company, I wish you all the best and remain faithfully yours. Isaac Youssef CURRICULUM VITAE PERSONAL DATA: Name: Isaac Youssef Atiya Nationality; Egyptian Place and date of birth: Cairo, On Oct. 5th 1951 Marital Status: Single Education Degree: B.Sc. Cairo University Contact Address: PO Box #15 Al- Afdal Post Office Cairo-11627, Egypt. Tel: 00202-235-3997 Fax: 00202-236-7413 E-mail: andyeg(a)eis.egnet.net JOB HISTORY & BUSINESS EXPERIENCE: Jan. 1st. 94 - Currently: PARTNER and MANAGER of CFT Int1., CENTRE DU FRET ET DU TRANSPORT INTERNATIONAL, which is actually an extension of GONDRAND Egypt (A former company mentioned below). As CFT Intl., I represented the following companies: = SDV group, including SCAC, TTA, & ATT France = TRANSCAP INTERNATIONAL France = GEFCO France Aug, 15th 91 - May 31st 94 The GENERAL MANAGER, and the only ACTIVE PARTNER of GONDRAND Egypt, one of the most leading freight forwarding agents and the international transport companies working in Egypt. As GONDRAND Egypt, I was the agent of many world wide companies such as : = S.F.T. GONDRAND FRERES France = MACH + France = SAVING SHIPPING & FORWARDING Italy = UTC, UNION TRANSPORT CORPORATION USA = UAT, UNION AIR TRANSPORT Europe = DSL, DISTRIBUTION SERVICES LTD USA = GEFCO France = TRUST FREIGHT USA Sep. 1st 88 - Aug. 14th 91: During that period, besides managing an export- import group consisting of 3 sister companies, I worked in the following companies: = DMC, the Egyptian daughter company of DOLLFUS MIEG ET CIE, one of the most leading world wide French threads manufacturers, in which I worked as the MATERIALS / INFORMATION FLOW & PURCHASING MANAGER. My duties included the following: 1- Supplying and furnishing both of the clients of the company and its employees with whatever they needed of information, materials, services, and /or products. 2- Controlling the flow of all the materials imported or locally purchased. 3- Supervising the import formalities and regulations with Banks, Customs and Governmental authorities, Air and Maritime lines, and Freight Forwarding agents. 4- Supervising purchasing and maintenance of the company assets through different contractors, suppliers, and services companies. 5- Controlling the circulation of raw materials and products. = AMECO, an Egyptian freight forwarder which, in the same time, represents ships owners. In AMECO I had the position of the ASSISTANT MANAGER of Cairo branch. = MEDTRANS, The Egyptian correspondent of a group of European and American freight forwarding companies, such as the French company S.F.T. GONDRAND FRERES, And the American company DANIEL F. YOUNG Inc.. In MEDTRANS I had the position of the EXECUTIVE MANAGER. Feb. 1st 80 - Aug. 31st 88 : A SUPERVISOR and a DEPARTMENT HEAD in MFA - MISR FREIGHT AGENCIES - The Egyptian branch of the world wide DANZAS company for international transportation and freight forwarding - which had, at that time, 450 offices distributed in 42 countries with the head office in Switzerland. In MFA- DANZAS Egypt - I supervised the following departments: 1- Sea Freight Dep. (Conventional and General Cargo, and Containerized Shipments). 2- Air Freight Dep. 3- Projects Transport Dep. 4- Transit Goods & Distribution Dep. 5- Fairs & International Exhibitions Transport Dep. 6- The Local Operations & Inland Road Transport Dep. 7- Besides the above, I supervised some special inter-branches relations between MFA and the other world wide branches of DANZAS group. Before MFA was founded, I worked in the above capacities for the COMMERCIAL DELEGATION OF DANZAS in Egypt. Sept. 78 - Jan. 31st 80: The DIRECTOR ASSISTANT of CENTER FOR EGYPTIAN CIVILIZATION STUDIES, in which I supervised the following: 1- Planning & Execution of programs 2- Administration 3- Public Relations 4- Correspondence 5- Translation OTHER QUALIFICATIONS: = Courses in MANAGEMENT SKILLS FOR SUPERVISORS AND DEPARTMENT HEADS organized by Monadonck International Limited - London, for International Management Development. = A seminar and a long training course in PROJECTS TRANSPORT, SEA FREIGHT, and INLAND ROAD TRANSPORT in DANZAS branch in Zurich city, and in AIR FREIGHT in its branch in Kloten airport of Zurich. = Courses in BUSINESS ADMINISTRATION including FINANCE FOR NON- FINANCIAL MANAGERS, AN INTRODUCTION TO COST ACCOUNTING, and BASIC PRINCIPLES OF FEASIBILITY STUDIES. These courses were organized by The Egyptian-German Association for Economical and Social Development of The Arab-German Chamber of Commerce in Cairo, among the Business Administration Program in Egypt sponsored by Konrad-Adenauer Foundation. = Write and Speak English language. = Some courses in French language, and still studying. = Traveled in Business Trips to many countries, such as Switzerland, UK, France, Germany, Turkey, and USA. = Active, Head Working, Ambitious, and willing for constant movement & traveling. = Fond of creating new businesses in Egypt. Signature Isaac Youssef PS: Besides the ordinary transport activities and the services related to the freight forwarding business, I represent my clients in the various official authorities, e.g. Customs Authority; Investment Authority, General Organization for Fairs & International Exhibitions, Egyptian General Petroleum Corporation, National Authority for Wire and Wireless Communications, Traffic Administration, The Import Rationalization Committee of the Ministry of Foreign Trade, Banks, Embassies, and Chambers of Commerceetc..

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your request
by jenni＠biznetandmarketing.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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