- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

Re: A Disservice to Mr. Bell
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 02:18 PM 11/8/96 -0800, Peter Hendrickson wrote: >At 1:32 PM 11/8/1996, jim bell wrote: >>At 09:12 PM 11/7/96 -0800, Peter Hendrickson wrote: >>> ...His conviction was not reversed until 1983 in the court of one >>> Judge Patel... > >> However, the fact that it took 40 years to reverse (and didn't, presumably, >> reverse the convictions of others, and didn't compensate people for lost >> property) is yet another reason to take a few pieces out of the hide of the >> SC, as well as a few pounds of flesh nearest the heart. > >Many of us are guilty of a grave disservice to Mr. Bell. I'm sure >that just about every reader of this list can only cringe when >messages such as the one above cross our screens. ("He can't be >a paid provocateur - it would be too obvious!") > >Not only is Mr. Bell apparently calling for the murder of a judge, he >is apparently calling for the murder of every justice on the Supreme >Court of the United States! I'm glad to see that you seem to be catching on. (although you made the minor error of referring to the current roster of the SC, as opposed to the 1943 makeup. But that's a minor point; the 1996 group have their own set of offenses...) In any case, it's really very simple: Kidnapping used to be a capital offense in the US. What the US Government did to the Japanese Americans during WWII was, quite simply, kidnapping. Or, at least, it would have been called kidnapping if it had been done by non-governmental entities. True, it was done "under color of law," but ultimately it amounted to the same thing. Lawyers, who have brought hypocrisy and double-standards to a high art form, are taught to accept this. And they are also taught to fight (at least a bit) for their clients rights. But ultimately, they are taught to accept the decision of a court even if it's wrong. Sure, they may have appeal rights and will occasionally exercise them, but there's no court past the SC. It turns out, of course, that since we now all (?) accept the idea that those SC decisions were simply wrong, it isn't possible to use the "they said it was okay" excuse. The most of the relocations occurred before the decisions, which means the governmental actions were done without them. And I consider a temporary (even a 40-year) approval by a group of nine clowns to be no more definitive than a fresh conviction that hasn't yet been through its first appeal. Please note that if it were 1943 and somebody called for the death penalty for the perp of a kidnapping case, he'd probably be called a fine upstanding citizen. (Interestingly enough, one of the cornerstone objections a lawyer (or judge) might have to my "playing hardball" on this subject is their belief that judges should be immune from prosecution for their decisions. The strange part, however, is that judicial immunity seems to be an entirely fabricated concept: It appears nowhere in the US Constitution, for example.) However, it turns out that there is a solution to this problem, the recent re-emergence of the "Common-law courts." A truly fascinating subject. Having competed (with varying levels of disrespect on both sides) with so-called "Equity courts" in England since well before the 17th century, they frequently represented a bulwark against the misuse of royal authority. Competing court systems might be considered somewhat analogous to competing companies in the private sector: Monopolies breed abuse; competition results in better service. There is no reason to believe that this effect would be any less applicable in courts than other markets. They might merely be a historical curiousity in America, except that the American Revolution had the predictable effect (supported by US court decision, apparently) that as a consequence of George III's loss and our win, all powers previously vested in the King were returned to the American people. Some, but by no means all of them were delegated to the Federal government, as the 9th and 10th amendments show. The really interesting part is that the authority to form common-law courts was never delegated to the Federal government, and (perhaps not surprisingly, considering recent governmental abuses) a number of groups around the country have decided to form their own such commonlaw courts. To American ears this will probably sound a bit like "taking the law into your own hands," but those courts are quite real and I predict they will become a substantially more powerful force in the next few years. Since selection of judges is part of the powers originally owned by George III and lost by him, this means that ordinary people have the power to run those courts and staff them, as odd as this will feel to those of us who were brought up on Perry Mason et al. Naturally, you can expect numerous lawyers and judges (all who consider themselves part of the competing "equity court" system, BTW) to cry foul. The effect is somewhat akin to a child who initially shares a communal sandbox with a neighbor kid, who subsequently moves away and is replaced by a childless couple. After a few years of de-facto sole ownership, the feelings of monopoly ownership are quite real, even if in reality sharing must once again happen due to the arrival of new neighbors. Interestingly enough, the one thing the Commonlaw court system needs is an effective enforcement system. One likely method is the commercial lien process, but even that tends to be resisted by people who are far more used to dealing with equity court personnel. It turns out that my AP system seems to mesh almost perfectly with their needs, although obviously in practice it would only be used as a "last resort." Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

2 1

exclusion/censorship and the law (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > From: Greg Broiles <gbroiles(a)netbox.com> > Subject: exclusion/censorship and the law > > never faced any extended scrutiny because the parties settled. Also, > Prodigy, the defendant in Stratton Oakmont, exercised much greater > editorial control over postings on that service, and had the ability to > remove postings, which is something John Gilmore can't do. He certainly can, this list runs under Majordomo which allows exactly this kind of control if desired. I use it on my own lists and am quite familiar with its operation. It is completely feasible for the operator to look at EVERY submission prior to re-distribution and set the time stamp in such a manner that there would be no evidence it ever occured. > So my impression is that you've got the tail end of a useful concept > (ability to control is frequently a factor used to determine liability) but > are making far too much out of it. One really big difference I see here is > that editorial control of the Cpunks list has occurred once (in 4? 5? years > of the list's existence), is on a per-person not a per-message basis, and > *does not function to restrict who can send messages but only limits Vulis' > ability to _receive_ them on his usual system(s)*. How often it occurs is irrelevant, this is like saying one rape is not a crime but two is. Utter hogwash. Vulis was removed from the list, this means he can't SUBMIT posts. This is censorship. The act was based on the content or personality of Vulis' submissions. It was not based on a limitation of the software, the Internet feed to the list, or the ability of the hardware to handle more traffic. In short it was an emotionaly based action. > You might take a look at Mike Godwin's article on net defamation at > <http://www.eff.org/pub/Legal/net_libel_godwin.article>; by now it's a > little old, but I don't think anything's happened since which would change > its reasoning. I have read it. I live in Austin, TX. and am quite familiar with the whole Steve Jackson event (I was involved in it peripheraly) as well as how it started EFF. I am currently peripheraly involved with the Austin EFF chapter through the Austin Cypherpunks mailing list (which I host). My first exposure to PGP was v1.0 from Adelante BBS, and I had been using and playing vith various crypto related programs for quite few years prior to that. > The problem with absolute statements like this is that they ignore > important distinctions about scale - e.g., I think that it's very important > that people, generally, be free to discuss whatever they want in private > homes. But I also think it's very important that I be able to tell other > people that they're not willing to discuss whatever they want in *my* home. An action is right or wrong, irrespective of scale. If one person does it doesn't make it any more wrong than if hundreds or millions do it. Right and wrong are NOT scalable. But this is not a private list. It has no warning about policies at subscription time. It has been advertised for years as a open forum for the discussion of crypto and speech related issues in clearly public venues. I run a couple of 'private' lists. It is not possible for you or any other party to become involved without agreeing before the fact to certain editorial policies. This does not occur here. Where the 'press' is located is irrelevant to this discussion. The point which seems to be missed is that it takes in a single submission and then distributes multiple copies (without editing) to ANYONE who wishes to subscribe. In point of fact, the various articles in Mondo 2000 (back when the list first started) and those since can be clearly interpreted as an invitation to join the list via clearly publicly distributed medium. In effect it would be like declaring your home an 'Open House' via the local newspaper. > Not because I'm especially excited about censorship, but because I enjoy my > privacy and my peace & quiet. So on the level of national rights, yes, > unrestricted speech is an excellent thing. But on the level of my living > room, unrestricted speech is a very bad thing. Then don't invite people to your house via magazines, newspapers, or Intenet. Unrestricted speech is a good thing. Speech without personal responsibility for the consequences is a bad thing. There were no consequences to Vulis' speech other than the emotional impact it apparently had on the list operator. Personaly, I use the same standards of speech that I apply to the public at large as I do to that small sector I explicity invite into my home. I don't have a double standard in this regards. > I don't think anyone who is arguing that it's fine to throw Vulis off the > list would make the argument that it would be acceptable for the government > to throw Vulis off of the Internet. Who does the throwing is irrelevant. The point is that a policy of 'hands-off' was enacted over the years and it was changed with no warning or opportunity for other list members to become involved. This list is a community, it is not some individuals private property. In no way can you successfuly argue that my email address in the subscription list qualifies me in any way as 'property' of the list operator nor does it imply any agreement on my part to allow that party editorial control of my submission under the previous submission limitations (ie none). Another aspect is that the credibility of this list as an open forum for the discussion of crypto and speech related issues has been tarnished if not downright lost. As to the anarchy aspect, that has forever been lost. > The closest thing I can see to a First Amendment argument against Gilmore > is the "company town" argument, that the list is so much like a city or > town that it ought to be subject to the restrictions that the First > Amendment puts on municipalities and traditional public forums - but even > this (rather far-out) argument got shot down a few days ago when our > beloved Wallace of CyberPromo tried it in _Cyber Promotions v. America > Online_. The judge said "no way", and I think that argument's a lot more > plausible against American Online than against John Gilmore. It has nothing really to do with the First. It does have to do with the agreed upon contract between the operator of the list and its subscribers. By enacting this policy of censorship the original 'contract' (ie none) has been broken and a new contract put in place. Had everyone received a warning and then been unsubscribed and at the time of re-subscription a clearly worded explanation of new policy been made available I would have no problem. I do have a problem with arbitrary reprisals against individuals based upon their submission content. There but by the grace of God go I (or you). As a matter of fact, the issues raised in both the CompuServe and Prodigy cases did NOT revolve around the First but rather who held editorial control. This is EXACTLY the issue here. My previous referal to ;login is a pointer to a discussion of these two cases explicitly. > I don't think this makes any sense. "Public list" has no special meaning. public list = unmoderated and open to anyone > My impression is that you're trying to make an analogy to public places > which are privately owned like motels and lunch counters and amusement > parks, where the owners (despite being private actors) cannot discriminate > on the basis of race, gender, national origin, etc. (See, e.g., Civil > Rights Act of 1964, 42 USC 1981 et seq) Not at all. A 'public' list is a list which has no editorial policy and is open to any party for membership. It in effect has no qualification criteria. > But I don't think there's any especially credible allegation that Vulis was > discriminated against on the basis of protected class membership; nor is it > clear that the Civil Rights Act can be extended to the operation of mailing > lists. Can it be extended to my operation of a paper printing press in my garage through which I distribute pamphlets or flyers to any party which requests them by sending me their address? If so then it applies here. > If there's no prohibited discrimination (either because there's no > prohibition, or there was no "discrimination" within the terms of the > statute) then I don't see a cause of action. Wanting something you're not > getting isn't enough. Owners of "public places" like malls or stores or > restaurants are still free to exclude some people for non-prohibited > reasons (like not meeting the dress code, or having behaved poorly in the > past). But to do this they MUST post or publish those codes in a place where a patron can clearly see them. This was not done here. > I am pretty disappointed to see that none of the people who profess to be > shocked and wounded at Vulis' exclusion have bothered to set up your own > lists. In my mind, whatever moral outrage you claim to have looks awfully > small compared to the relatively small burden of doing something about what > you say is bothering you. I run several lists including two that are crypto related (Austin Cypherpunks and Advanced Computer Experimenters). > I think that "cypherpunks write code" can/should be understood as a > question, e.g., "what are you doing to change the things that bother you?" Among other things I am bitching about the arbitrary and unfair way this list is being run considering the environment it was supposed to foster. Jim Choate

2 1

Re: FW: Dr. Vulis is not on cypherpunks any more [RANT] (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > From: "networks(a)vir.com" <networks(a)vir.com> > Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 15:15:38 -0500 > > It seems that, like a bookstore, the cypherpunks mailing list has the > right to choose the content it distributes and who it distributes the content > to. Actualy bookstores distribute the books they are under contract to distribute via the publishers they have contracts with. An easy way to tell if a bookstore is a reasonable distributor and one with some level of ethics is to ask if they participate in the yearly banned books week. If they don't I would suggest you go elsewhere. Businesses in general are not allowed to prohibit patrons based on their belief, speech, or action unless it can be shown to pose some threat to the operation of the business or they post said policy in a public place where patrons can see it. An example may be in order. Here in Austin, TX. we have a problem with bums and kids who are homeless. They urinate on the walls and commit various other acts that are not acceptable to the community at large. In order to do anything about these people on public property the city HAD to pass two laws. These two laws are that it is now unlawful to camp overnite on public property. In effect you cannot reside on public property in Austin, TX between midnite and 6am. The other law was that it is now a crime in Austin, TX to emit a 'objectionable odor in public'. Strictly interpreted if you are in a city park at 12:01AM or before 6:00AM you can be arrested. Also, if you were to emit a fart outside your personal property you can be arrested. (Note that these laws have not resolved the indigent problems we have here) In short without this law (ie contract) it was not possible for the city or private businesses to do anything about this. > Bookstores are free to select what titles they offer for sale, and can > even refuse to sell a book to a particularly annoying customer if they > so choose (my legal knowledge is lacking, but I think this is correct). Irrelevant. The point is that bookstores are not legaly responsible for the contents of those books except in very special cases. The distributors or publishers are responsible. This list qualifies as a publisher so long as it retains editorial control of content of submissions prior to distribution. If they have no editorial control then they are in the situation of a bookstore which is protected from legal action on the contents of the books they carry except under special conditions. The action taken by the list operator explicity acts as an example of that editorial control. > To extend the analogy, what has happened in this particular case > is that Dr. Vulis is now forced to buy all his books by mail order :) What has happened here is that a member of a community has been expunged based on their beliefs. Not on any particular action they took which posed any sort of threat to that community. Jim Choate

1 0

Re: FW: Dr. Vulis (ad nauseum) (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 17:12:47 -0500 > From: camcc(a)abraxis.com (Alec) > This is not a they; this is an individual with (and within) his own rights. Who or how many own the (digital) press is irrelevant. > Nonsense, no policy has been stated. The owner determined that the good Dr. > had been disruptive and had become a detriment to the owner's list (and > possibly sanity). Exactly! With no policy and the wide advertising of this list as a open forum for the discussion of crypto and speech related issues such action by the list operator constitute censorship (ie editorial control) and make the operator legaly responsible for the actions of those messages which LEAVE his machine. No contract means no contract. It applies to all parties involved. > PLEASE, let's not drag poor Tim into this. Hasn't he suffered enough?! > This does not follow even from the tortured logic above. Nobody ever suffers enough. > "Implies the right"?? Rights either exist or do not exist (endowed by their > Creator); they are not be implied. I suggest you read the 9th Amendment again then. You obvously didn't get the point the other time(s). > The content of speech is certainly not irrelevant. Disruptive speech and > behavior have never been protected. Vulis's speech was not distruptive. It did not interfere with anyone else being able to submit or filter submissions. His speech was outside the norm but posed no threat to the operation of the cpunks mailing list. > It says CONGRESS! We're not discussing an action by the federal govt. here. > I may choose to ask those visiting my house to refrain from discussing mumbo > jumbo; if the individuals persist, I can ask, nay demand, that they leave. > : > :And just to make shure it is clear, the right to put something on the paper > :(ie speech) is distinctly different from being the one doing the actual > :printing. Agreed. It was intended to make the point that this is the ideal we should all be striving for. We as members of a free democratic society should NEVER censor anyone on the content of their speech. > What paper? What does this mean? This list is a digital press. > Advertised? It has been a matter of regret that I _stumbled_ into this > unruly tangle of wits. Then you have not been reading a lot of computer and crypto related material. I see references to this list and how to subscribe several times a year in various sources going back several years. > Simply because one has argued that "the list is ... a defacto public list," > don't make it so any more than my arguing that a newspaper available to the > public can have no control over its own editorial policy. True, but the paper MUST publish that policy in its editions. Which papers and magazines do religously. Jim Choate

1 0

RRE: notes (8 Nov 1996)
by E. Allen Smith 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

This has a rather chaotic mixture of inapplicable and useful information; I'll try to edit out the non-useful stuff (via [...]). He's made the distinct goof of misidentifying libertarianism with 60's style anarchosocialism, as well as other problems... I'll be emailing him myself with some comments. -Allen From: IN%"rre(a)weber.ucsd.edu" 9-NOV-1996 05:26:15.31 To: IN%"rre(a)weber.ucsd.edu" CC: Subj: notes Notes on network computers, blind copies, democratic culture, monopolies, and the idea of an Internet establishment... As a periodic reminder, a Web archive of nearly all the RRE messages ever sent can be found through http://communication.ucsd.edu/pagre/rre.html It turns out that the article on cryptography by Bruce Schneier that I forwarded from the Risks Digest the other day was actually an unfinished draft that Peter Neumann sent out by mistake. Bruce asks that everyone refrain from propagating that version around the net. Steve Lohr's article on the "network computer" in Monday's New York Times includes the following priceless quotes: The line between these network computers being used as really effective corporate tools and being used as mind-control tiger cages is a fine one. There will be a real temptation for corporate managers to go too far in the direction of control. -- Paul Saffo The paradise of shared knowledge and a more egalitarian working environment just isn't happening. Knowledge isn't really shared because management doesn't want to lose authority. -- Shoshana Zuboff What's a floppy disk? It's a way to steal company secrets. -- Scott McNealy We think we can go after the dumb-terminal market too. -- Bill Gates I wish we could rewind this whole computer revolution thing and start over. [...] Non-Americans keep remarking on the predominance of American items on RRE. That's simply a function of the items that RRE subscribers send me. If you come across interesting items from other countries, I hope you'll consider sending them along. [...] A while back, I came across an op-ed column addressed to teen-agers which purported to explain certain points about life. The first of these points was, and I quote, Life's not fair. Get used to it. All of the points were like this: each of them presupposed that their reader held a putatively naive or self-serving opinion about life, and they proposed to set the reader straight in a remarkably nasty and disrespectful way. I view this article as part of a larger and very depressing trend: the return of authoritarian culture. The purpose of authoritarian culture is to instil a mindless obedience to authority. It employs two basic methods. The first of these methods is stereotype: one's normal human tendencies to think critically and oppression resist are caricatured and ridiculed; endless stories are adduced to portray people who employ these innate faculties in a bad light; and labels such as "whining" and "complaining" and "victim" are liberally applied. The second method of authoritarian culture is the attempt to naturalize authority by hiding it behind large abstractions. In this case, the abstraction in question is "life". Having established that "life" is unfair, it becomes possible to label any protest against unfairness as a demand that the whole world conform to one's own immature whims. These teenagers are counseled to "get used to it" and to reconcile themselves to a life of being treated unfairly. No liberal nostrums about self-esteem here: this columnist's message was that nobody deserves to be treated with respect, and that it's arrogant to think otherwise. Another example of authoritarian culture is the contemporary American use of the word "accountability". Accountability, we are told, means "accepting the consequences of your actions". Everyone is supposed to "be accountable", and to embrace this condition as a concomitant of responsible adulthood. Authority here is hidden through a grammatical device. In normal usage, the word "accountable" takes a complement, as in "accountable to ...". When the complement is omitted, the human authority is displaced into the woodwork, and obedience to that authority is conflated with a variety of quite different conditions: responsibility, honesty, etc. No reasonable person has a problem with the idea of being responsible for one's actions. But nobody who believes in a democratic society can accept the idea that any person has absolute authority to judge any other person's actions, and hand down "consequences", without likewise being constrained by norms of responsibility, which in the old days were called "justice" and -- yes, that's right -- "fairness". It is not surprising when people in authority employ such language. But authoritarian culture requires more: it requires that people internalize this language, applying it to themselves and dissociating all desire for justice and fair treatment. We all have our failings, but we we cannot have a decent society unless everyone is treated with respect and judged with a reasonable regard for proportionality and due process. Healthy people don't just "get used to" injustice. Quite the contrary, genuine maturity begins with the skill and discipline of helping people organize to identify and overcome injustice. Shame and ridicule are the least violent of the tools that have historically been employed to condemn people to passivity. But they are also the most basic and, in the end, the most destructive. The basic method for promoting an extreme position is to harp on the evils of the opposite extreme. Authoritarian culture thus lives in a symbiotic union with its evil twin, libertarian culture, whose sole value is freedom from constraint. The symbiosis between authoritarian and libertarian culture has many facets: * Authoritarian culture holds that people are essentially bad and that nothing can be done about this; libertarian culture holds that people are essentially good and that nothing needs to be done to encourage this. * Authoritarian culture imposes constraint without respect for individual dignity; libertarian culture holds that individual dignity consists in the absence of constraint. * Authoritarian culture holds that people are innately irresponsible; libertarian culture denounces responsibility as an authoritarian myth. * Authoritarian culture and libertarian culture both conflate feelings with action, authoritarian culture to repress them both and libertarian culture to license them both. * Authoritarian culture crushes the spirit and eventually gives rise to an immature impulse toward libertarian culture; libertarian culture stands indifferent as great industries arise to support an epidemic of addiction, which then gives rise to a fearful impulse toward authoritarian culture. What authoritarian and libertarian have in common is their claim to follow a simple, objective rule that lies beyond human interpretation: the rule of order or the rule of freedom. The terra incognita that lies beyond the dysfunctionality of both authoritarian and libertarian culture is democratic culture: the form of culture within which everyone takes responsibility for living together constructively. Democratic culture is not just a matter of voting. It is a set of values, and it is a set of skills. Some of these skills are organizational: you can't have democratic culture unless people know, deep down in their bones, how to hold a productive consensus-based meeting. Other skills are emotional: you can't have democratic culture unless people can tell the difference between resisting oppression and acting out resentment, between organizing and polarizing, between freedom and irresponsibility, between pleasure and addiction, between discipline and shame, between personal boundaries and passive aggression. The sixties have left an ambiguous legacy because they blurred together two very distinct impulses: countercultural libertarianism, for which I don't have an awful lot of respect, and democratic experimentation, for which I have a great deal of respect. Recreational drug use, for example, is stupid and boring. But the democratic organizing traditions that arose and flourished in the sixties were an important cultural contribution, and it's sad to see them forgotten. The rise of authoritarian culture depends on this forgetting, and on crushing at an early age the hopes for human dignity with which all of us are born. Why isn't this obvious? One reason is that the American conservative movement originated as a marriage of convenience between authoritarians and libertarians, both of whom portrayed themselves as opponents of something called "government". But opposition to government tout court is opposition to democracy. We have been inundated in recent years by rhetoric that seeks to make democracy literally unthinkable by conflating all types of government, whether democratic or totalitarian, into a single stereotype of oppression. This stereotype requires its proponents to construct themselves as powerless victims, and it licenses all sorts of whining and complaint by the very people who make a big point of censuring whining and complaint by others. By treating the institutions of a democratic society as inherently beyond control, it also licenses an abdication of personal responsibility -- the responsibility to learn, practice, and teach the values and skills of a democratic society. Back in the Later Middle Ages, around 1994, I often found myself lectured by experts who asserted that great bureaucratic institutions, government and corporate alike, would necessarily and inevitably disintegrate in the world of the Internet. It's almost 1997 now, and as the months go by I find it ever harder to remember why this great disintegration was supposed to take place. If evidence counts for anything, we are actually living in an unprecedented era of concentration and centralization. ABC has now become the Disney Infomercial Channel, and British Telecom is buying MCI. And the more I learn about Internet economics, the more the Internet seems like a veritable engine of monopoly-creation. The reasons are numerous. Most of them are explained in the recommendations and bibliographies that I have provided in past issues of The Network Observer, and any one of them would suffice: * The Internet backbone business, like any other utility, involves high fixed costs and low marginal costs of serving additional customers, so that bigness is highly rewarded. And every provider has an incentive to give priority to packets that remain within its network, thus giving a quality-of-service advantage in the market to whichever provider first establishes a dominant position in a given segment of the market for network services. * The pattern of high fixed costs and low marginal costs is even stronger for software: if two software products compete then the price of each is determined by its development costs divided by the number of customers. As a result, other things being equal, the company with the larger market share completely destroys its competition. If other things aren't equal, a company with an existing flow of monopoly rents can simply give away its products until its competitors' capital is depleted. * And then there are de facto standards: the dynamics of standards are fantastically complicated, but the Internet still needs several additional service layers, and even a single proprietary standard could give one firm immense power to extract rents from Internet users and dictate future directions for Internet architecture. Since most of the forthcoming standards will be implemented in software, the monopoly tendencies of the software market will promote the rise of proprietary networking standards. Past experience with the Internet is misleading: small players and ARPA philosopher-kings can establish a new standard in the world if the big players are asleep, but the big players are awake now. In the future it will take capital and speed to impose a standard, and winner takes all. * The economics of information -- "content" -- are no more reassuring. Since information can be replicated cheaply, an overwhelming, life-or- death incentive exists to leverage creative effort across as many channels as possible. Of course, every industry has an incentive to increase its revenue. But as the marginal cost of selling additional units approaches zero, prices are directly determined by market share, thus giving rise to a positive feedback loop and eventual monopoly. This suggests that, to the extent that the Internet is a vehicle for the delivery of information commodities, it will necessarily be absorbed into the institutions of the media system. Nobody will be able to afford to produce a news service that only operates on the Internet, for example, given that existing news services can adapt their work to the Internet for much less than it costs to produce a competing service from scratch. And content providers who already operate in other media will have a powerful incentive to adapt their services to the Internet, provided only that additional money can be made by providing those services in the Internet medium. It is commonly argued that the Internet, by reducing transaction costs, will cause organizations to break apart and industries to reorganize on a more entrepreneurial basis. I have argued this myself. But the argument doesn't work. The Internet (and not only the Internet, but a world of other technologies) reduces transaction costs and coordination costs alike, making it less efficient to operate large organizations that cross many disparate functions but more efficient to operate large organizations that do one standardized thing. Thus we have waves of both outsourcing (due to decreased transaction costs) and concentration (due to decreased coordination costs). And high-tech industries increasingly favor those firms that can see standards battles coming and prepare to fight them in a coordinated way. Other arguments against the monopoly scenarios have more force. Internet service provision is not yet a monopoly, and it is not obviously headed in that direction right now. Nobody understands the ISP business very well, and it would appear that the smaller entrepreneurial firms have an advantage in adaptability in an environment of rapid technological and market change. AT&T, moreover, would seem to be falling apart at the seams in very much the fashion that Schumpeter, that patron saint of entrepreneurs, would have predicted. Even MCI has been hitting itself on the head pretty hard during the last few years. So my point is *not* that the Internet is definitely going to be locked up by cigar-smoking corporate titans. My point is simply this. It's almost 1997, and yet the airwaves and magazine pages are still full of ideologues, still reciting old-wave technological determinist mantras about how the Internet will inevitably bring us a decentralized world of freedom. Technological determinism, however, is a kind of cargo cult: it asserts that we can obtain a happy society if we simply work hard enough at idolizing the technology. The world doesn't work like that. Significant forces are operating in several directions, some of those directions are more pleasant to contemplate than others, and the outcome is not preordained. It seems to me that the proponents of a totally unregulated economy should learn a little more economics. It also seems to me that it's time for a revival of the democratic values that make it possible to imagine a conscious choice about our technological future. [...] After my comment about the Journal of Internet Banking and Commerce the other day, I got an irate message from the Journal's editor. Among his less extravagant suggestions was that I am a member of the Internet establishment who has the power to destroy people with a word. Gosh. My first response was to wonder if Hallmark has a card for this occasion: To a childhood friend, after all these years I can still remember how, it seems You never picked me for your teams I have no idea now where you've went But I'm a member of the Internet establishment So you better watch out what you say Or with my keyboard I'll blow you away Then I thought about it more seriously. I'm not here to take shots at struggling Internet publications, unless you count Slate. My only goal had been to plug the Scout Report, and the truth is that I was too lazy to dig up an issue of TSR that I was 100% comfortable with. I won't go into the reasons for the opinion I formed of JIBC back in the spring, since you can easily judge for yourselves. Of course I should take ordinary care not to slam people at random, and by trying to run this list in odd moments of the day I'm all too likely to get careless. The harder question is, is this guy right? Never mind that he had a grossly exaggerated estimate of RRE's readership -- the idea that I am a member of any kind of establishment is completely foreign to me. Of course, this could simply be a self-serving delusion. After all, as a white guy who was born in the United States, I enjoy numerous social privileges that I have never earned. And as a graduate student at MIT, my cohort and I were located so close to the center of the post-WWII military-academic complex that we had the resources to pretend that we were antiestablishment nonconformists. Still, if the Internet establishment exists and holds councils, I have never been invited to them. I have met some of the publicly prominent Internet people once or twice and have found them to be remarkably decent, but I hope you will agree that my message on RRE is not particularly congruent with theirs. Yes, I organized a CPSR conference a few years back, but look what's happening to CPSR. So, at the end of the day, am I basically just another guy with a mailing list? When I started RRE, I assumed that surely by now the Internet would be crawling with filter lists such as my own. But even though some other excellent filter lists do exist, including some (David Farber's, for example) with many more subscribers than my own, my assumption hasn't come close to being true. Why is this? I can think of a few reasons: * Limited access to the tools. The hardware keeps getting faster, but the software for maintaining mailing lists isn't much better than it was in 1993. It's still impractical for 95%+ of Internet users to maintain large mailing lists. This is a scandal. * Flexibility of the tools. The assumption that lots of people would start filter lists depended on another, implicit assumption: that the Internet only supports a limited number of interesting mechanisms. Lots of people are doing great things on the Internet, and they have shaped tools to fit their particular visions, which simply differ from mine. Even the other filter lists vary widely in their traffic, contents, respect for copyrights, and amplitude of editorial voice. * Network externalities. As I mentioned the other day, it's possible that once a list like RRE establishes a large subscriber base, other lists will have a hard time getting enough traction to compete. This is because the success of such lists depends in part on the number of subscribers they have, and I got the subscribers first. On the other hand, 4300 is a small fraction of the total world of Internet users. * Critical mass. RRE is mostly about the social and political aspects of networking and computing. This is a fashionable topic, and it is a topic likely to appeal to a large proportion of Internet users. Someone who wanted to run a filter list devoted to medical issues, for example, would be limited by the number of Internet users in the medical field. On the other hand, one major early source of RRE messages was Gleason Sackman's high-volume filter list on education. I wish I could say that the Internet affords freedom of the press to those who don't own one. But it's not true, not yet. So maybe, on some very tiny scale, I'm an Internet analog of Rush Limbaugh or Scott Adams. Those guys could hardly be more different on one level, but they also reflect an important convergence. Rush didn't invent talk radio with its structured listener involvement; the innovation of his show was that it's basically about his opinions. Dilbert didn't invent the comic strip; his innovation was to use the Internet to involve his readers in thinking up the ideas. In each case, the result is a voice that seems on the surface like a synthesis of the star's voice with that of his audience, and the fear is that this result is a sham, giving just enough of an appearance of audience involvement to authenticate the star as the Voice of the People. Likewise, by forever soliciting subscribers' submissions while exercising absolute editorial control, I can imagine that this list conveys a sense of omniscience that has little basis in reality. As a recovering know-it- all, I can testify how addictive this position can be. I can imagine how this list can be perceived as more authoritative than it really is. And since perceptions of authority are largely self-fulfilling, I can appreciate how an RRE message can do more damage than it has any right to. I don't really know for sure, nor is it mine to judge. But I suppose I should err on the safe side.

1 0

Son of Cyberpromo?
by Ernest Hua 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The message speaks for itself. Ern -------- Return-Path: MREMAIL(a)red.pobox.net Received: from red.pobox.net (www1-208-135-28-26.asatte.com [208.135.27.80]) by xenon.chromatic.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA24960 for <hua(a)chromatic.com>; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 18:50:57 -0700 (PPET) Message-Id: <199611090150.SAA24960(a)xenon.chromatic.com> Received: from MR.EMAIL (Cust27.Max22.Los-Angeles.CA.MS.UU.NET [153.34.81.27]) by red.pobox.net (post.office MTA v1.9.3b ID# 0-10245) with SMTP id AAW87; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 17:46:00 -0800 From: MREMAIL(a)MREMAIL.COM To: YOU(a)YOU.COM Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 17:48:54 PST Subject: I M P O R T A N T ! ! ! EMAIL WORKS $499.00 WE KNOW YOUR BUSINESS Our software and provider service enables any business to launch a professional and effective mass marketing of a product or service via bulk email. Our mission is to give the average, small or new business, and even the big guys, the tools required to utilize the Internet for generating sales figures not achievable through conventional advertising. EMAIL WORKS V3.1A EMail Works v3.1 is by far the most advanced bulk e-mail software available on the market. Its power and depth are only matched by it s ease of use. Features Sends at 13000 to 15000 per hour with 14.4 modem Posts to thousands of news groups automatically Collects at 75000 per 24 hours Works while your computer is: surfing, getting email or word processing Easy to use remove name feature. Parsing table 45000 to 100,000 per hour Stand alone - NO Pegasus-Eudora-Freedom- or other email program needed Sends & Gathers & Parsing at the same time! Marketing Tables Time & date stamp on all mailings Filtering system Auto remove screen disables mail from being sent to people who dont want it! When SoftCell becomes your postmaster you will never lose your e mail addresses, dial-up connection or web site domain ever again. BULLET PROOF WEB SITE DOMAIN 10mg never have your site ripped down again 10 MEG WEB DOMAIN We move your site and transfer or register your domain with internic REMOVE NAMES All mail is parsed against several large remove name lists 5 Meg FLAME PROOF E MAIL BOX We will not except multiple message or unmarked attachments from any user. FIRE WALL Over 70,000 e mail addresses that can not access our server AUTO RESPONDER Easy and fast response Additional provider services: Online secure credit card transactions $35.00 per mo. Shopping Basket $20.00 per mo. Additional Auto responders $15.00 per mo Additional E Mail Accounts $30.00 per mo Additional Web space $10.00 per Mg per mo. Access our remove name and parse out the undeliverable and remove names $49.00 per month! Bulk E-Mailing Services E Mail addresses for sale Our addresses are by far the best available on the internet because they are all 75+% deliverable and we never sell the same list to the same type of business twice. We currently have over 7 million active e mail addresses. 100,000 $199 300,000 $399 500,000 $599 1 Million $1000 Bulk E-Mailings DONT HAVE THE TIME? WE DO! 1.5 Million 1 Time $1200 2 Time $900 3 Time $800 4 Time $700 5 Time $500 Web Design Free web design and hosting can be arranged for companies & can show net earnings in excess of 1 Million dollars. In return for a percentage of sales SoftCell Marketing will develop, host and maintain you web site. Call now for more information: 714-825-4815 F R E E D E M O D O W N L O A D ! ! ! CALL NOW -- MR. EMAIL (DAVID) SoftCell Marketing Inc. CONTRACT IMPORTANT! FAX THIS LEGAL DOCUMENT TO: 714-574-9773 NAME:_____________________________________________ COMPANY NAME:_____________________________________ ADDRESS:__________________________________________ __________________________________________ TELEPHONE:________________________________________ BUSINESS PHONE:___________________________________ FAX:______________________________________________ CREDIT CARD TYPE:_________________________________ CREDIT CARD NUMBER:_______________________________ CREDIT CARD EXPIRATION:___________________________ E-MAIL ADDRESS:___________________________________ The business or company herein is referred to as the client, and SoftCell Marketing Inc. is referred to as "Company" , enter into this agreement to be effective as of date accepted by the "Company" subject to the following conditions: As a client I understand that the Company makes no Guarantee of success or financial gain. As a client I realize the "Company" is authorized to bill client credit card or cash client check or money order plus shipping and handling for "company"servivices or products. As a client I realize that the company will place my order for provider service to be billed on the (first) of the month, each and every month until a 30 day written notice is received from client. As a client I understand that once the "Company" has rendered services, or the client has been issued an access code, unlock code, turn on code or credit card approval have been gained, no refunds are possible. Please check the box(s) that apply: BOX 1:_____ EMAILWORKS V3A $499.00 BOX 2:_____ PROVIDER SERVICE $99.00 PER MONTH. WITH FIRST AND LAST MONTH AND $75.00 SET UP FEE. TOTAL $273.00 BOX 3:_____ BOTH (BOX 1 AND 2) TOTAL $772.00 CLIENT SIGNATURE:_________________________ DATE:___________

1 0

Re: Why is cryptoanarchy irreversible?
by nobody＠replay.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Peter Hendrickson <ph(a)netcom.com> wrote: > What are the benefits of being a cryptoanarchist? Maybe you get > to double your income. Most people won't see this as worth the > trouble. If you don't have enough to eat, doubling your income is worth the trouble. Crypto-anarchy benefits the poor more than the rich. The underlings of society are going to love it.

2 1

TRY THIS FOR FUN - $$payt~1.doc (1/1)
by markets＠mindspring.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

begin 644 $$payt~1.doc MT,\1X*&Q&N$`````````````````````/@`#`/[_"0`&```````````````! M````%```````````$```%0````$```#^____`````!,```#_____________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_______________________<I6@`8^`)!`````!E`````````````````P`` M[Q@``",E````````````````````````[Q4````````````````````````` M`````````````````````"```&H`````(```:@```&H@````````:B`````` M``!J(````````&H@````````:B```!0```"T(````````+0@````````M"`` M``````"T(````````+0@````````M"````H```"^(```$````+0@```````` M220``#$```#.(````````,X@````````SB````````#.(````````,X@```` M````SB````````#.(````````,X@````````5"(```(```!6(@```````%8B M````````5B(``"T```"#(@``U````%<C``#4````*R0``!X```!Z)```6``` M`-(D``!1````220`````````````````````````````:B````````#.(``` M````````#0`.``$``@#.(````````,X@```````````````````````````` M`,X@````````SB````````!))````````!`B````````:B````````!J(``` M`````,X@`````````````````````````````,X@````````$"(````````0 M(@```````!`B````````SB```$(!``!J(````````,X@````````:B`````` M``#.(````````%0B``````````````````#@P;X-B,Z[`7X@```4````DB`` M`"(```!J(````````&H@````````:B````````!J(````````,X@```````` M5"(````````0(@``1````!`B```````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````D)"1%05).($U/3D59($9!4U0@04Y$($Q% M1TE424U!5$4A(2$A#0U.;W0@82!#:&%I;B!,971T97([($YO($EM<&QI960@ M5&AR96%T<SH@(%1H870G<R!W:&%T($D@;&EK92!A8F]U="!I="X-#4]++"!/ M2R!S;R!H97)E($D@86T@=')Y:6YG(&]N92!O9B!T:&5S92!P<F]G<F%M<RP@ M=V5L;"!)(&9I9W5R960L('=H>2!N;W0L(&9O<B!T:&4@97AP;W-U<F4@;V8@ M)#4N,#`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`D-3,L-C8T(&EN M('1H92!S86UE(&%M;W5N="!O9B!T:6UE+B`@1&%N(%-H97!S=&]N92!S87ES M(&ET('=A<R!O;FQY("0Q-RPP,#`@9F]R(&AI;2X@($1O($D@:VYO=R!T:&5S M92!F;VQK<S\@3F\L(&)U="!W:&5N($D@<F5A9"!H;W<@=&AE>2!S87D@=&AE M>2!D:60@:70L(&ET(&UA9&4@<V5N<V4@=&\@;64N("!%;F]U9V@@<V5N<V4@ M=&AA="!))VT@=&%K:6YG(&$@<VEM:6QA<B!C:&%N8V4@=VET:"`D-2!O9B!M M>2!O=VX@;6]N97DN("!.;W0@82!B:6<@8VAA;F-E+"!)(&%D;6ET("TM(&)U M="!O;F4@=VET:"!I;F-R961I8FQE('!O=&5N=&EA;"P@8F5C875S92`D-2!I M<R!A;&P@86YY;VYE(&5V97(@:6YV97-T<R!I;B!T:&ES('-Y<W1E;2X@(%!E M<FEO9"X@(%1H870G<R!A;&P@36%R:W5S+"!$879E+"!O<B!$86X@:6YV97-T M960L('EE="!T:&5I<B`D-2!N971T960@=&AE;2!T96YS(&]F('1H;W5S86YD M<R!O9B!D;VQL87)S(&5A8V@L(&EN(&$@<V%F92P@;&5G86P@8V]M<&QE=&5L M>2!L96=I=&EM871E('=A>2X@($AE<F4G<R!H;W<@:70@=V]R:W,@:6X@,R!E M87-Y('-T97!S.@T-4W1E<"`Q#0U);G9E<W0@>6]U<B`D-2!B>2!W<FET:6YG M('EO=7(@;F%M92!A;F0@861D<F5S<R!O;B!F:79E('-E<&5R871E('!I96-E M<R!O9B!P87!E<B!A;&]N9R!W:71H('1H92!W;W)D<SH@(E!,14%312!!1$0@ M344@5$\@64]54B!-04E,24Y'($Q)4U0N(B`H26X@=&AI<R!W87DL('EO=2=R M92!N;W0@:G5S="!S96YD:6YG(&$@9&]L;&%R('1O('-O;65O;F4[('EO=2=R M92!P87EI;F<@9F]R(&$@;&5G:71I;6%T92!S97)V:6-E*2X@($9O;&0@82`D M,2!B:6QL+"!M;VYE>2!O<F1E<BP@;W(@8F%N:R!N;W1E(&EN<VED92!E86-H M('!A<&5R+"!A;F0@;6%I;"!T:&5M(&)Y('-T86YD87)D(&QO8V%L(&UA:6PO M<&]S="!T;R!T:&4@9F]L;&]W:6YG(&9I=F4@861D<F5S<V5S.@T-,2X)4"Y2 M+B!#;W)S=V%N9'0-"4AU8F5R='5S86QL964@-BTX#0E$+3$T,3DS#0E'15)- M04Y9#0TR+@E3=&EG($5R:6MS96X-"5-T;VQS:&%U9W8N(#(T#0E.+34T-C`@ M2%533D53#0E.3U)705D-#3,N"50N($QA=FEG;F4@#0DQ.2!7:&ES<&5R($QA M;F4-"4UI;'1O;BP@5E0@,#4T-C@-"55300T--"X)4BX@1V%S:VEN<PT),3(W M,B!'<F5A="!.96-K(%)D(",R,C`-"59I<F=I;FEA($)E86-H+"!602`@,C,T M-30-"55300T--2X@"4I51`T)-#<@5V5S="!0;VQK(%-T<F5E=`T)4W5I=&4@ M(S$P,"TR,3(-"4-H:6-A9V\L($E,("`@-C`V,#4-"55300T-4W1E<"`R#0U. M;W<@=7-I;F<@86YY('=O<F0@<')O8V5S<V]R('!R;V=R86TL(&]P96X@=&AI M<R!D;V-U;65N="`H;W(@<F4M='EP92!I="!Y;W5R<V5L9BD@<F5M;W9E('1H M92!T;W`@;F%M92!F<F]M('1H92!L:7-T+"!A;F0@<F4M;G5M8F5R+B`@5&AI M<R!W87D@(S(@8F5C;VUE<R`C,2P@(S4@8F5C;VUE<R`C-"!A;F0@<V\@;VXN M#0U0=70@>6]U<B!N86UE(&%N9"!A9&1R97-S(&EN(&%S('1H92!F:69T:"`H M(S4I(&]N('1H92!L:7-T+@T-4W1E<"`S#0U0;W-T('1H92!A<G1I8VQE('1O M(&%T(&QE87-T(#(U,"!N97=S9W)O=7!S+B`@5&AE<F4@87)E(&%T(&QE87-T M(#$Y,#`P(&YE=W-G<F]U<',@870@86YY(&=I=F5N(&UO;65N="!I;B!T:6UE M+B`@5')Y('!O<W1I;F<@=&\@87,@;6%N>2!N97=S9W)O=7!S(&%S('EO=2!C M86XN("!296UE;6)E<B!T:&4@;6]R92!G<F]U<',@>6]U('!O<W0@=&\L('1H M92!M;W)E('!E;W!L92!W:6QL('-E92!Y;W5R(&%R=&EC;&4@86YD('-E;F0@ M>6]U(&-A<V@A#0U3=&5P(#0-#7EO=2!A<F4@;F]W(&EN(&)U<VEN97-S(&9O M<B!Y;W5R<V5L9BP@86YD('-H;W5L9"!S=&%R="!S965I;F<@<F5T=7)N<R!W M:71H:6X@-R!T;R`Q-"!D87ES(2`@4F5M96UB97(L('1H92!);G1E<FYE="!I M<R!N97<@86YD(&AU9V4N("!)="!I<R!H87)D('1O(&EM86=I;F4@;F]T(&)E M;F5F:71I;F<@9G)O;2!T:&ES(&9R:65N9&QY(&5X97)C:7-E(&EN('1H:7,@ M:6YC<F5D;&4@<F%P:61L>2!G<F]W:6YG(&UA<FME="X-#4YO=R!H97)E(&ES M(&AO=R!A;F0@=VAY('1H:7,@<WES=&5M('=O<FMS.@T-3W5T(&]F(&5V97)Y M(&)L;V-K(&]F(#(U,"!P;W-T<R!M861E+"!E>'!E8W0@-2!R97-P;VYS97,N M#5EE<R!T:&%T(')I9VAT+"!O;FQY(#4N("!9;W4@;6%K92`D-2XP,"!I;B!C M87-H+"!N;W0@8VAE8VMS(&]R(&UO;F5Y(&]R9&5R<RP@8G5T(')E86P@8V%S M:"!W:71H('EO=7(@;F%M92!A="`C-2X-#45A8V@@861D:71I;VYA;"!P97)S M;VX@=VAO('-E;G0@>6]U("0Q+C`P(&YO=R!A;'-O(&UA:V5S(#(U,"!A9&1I M=&EO;F%L('!O<W1I;F=S('=I=&@@>6]U<B!N86UE(&%T(",T+"`Q,#`P('!O M<W1I;F=S+B`@3VX@879E<F%G92!T:&5N+"`U,"!P96]P;&4@=VEL;"!S96YD M('EO=2`D,2XP,"!W:71H('EO=7(@;F%M92!A="`C-&LL+BXN+B`D-3`N,#`@ M:6X@>6]U<B!P;V-K970A#0U.;W<@=&AE<V4@-3`@;F5W('!E;W!L92!W:6QL M(&UA:V4@,C4P('!O<W1I;F=S(&5A8V@@=VET:"!Y;W5R(&YA;64@870@(S,@ M;W(@,3`L,#`P('!O<W1I;F=S+B`@079E<F%G92!R971U<FXL(#4P,"!P96]P M;&4@/2`D-3`P+C`P('1H97D@;6%K92`R-3`@<&]S=&EN9W,@96%C:"!W:71H M('EO=7(@;F%M92!A="`C,B`](#$P,"PP,#`@<&]S=&EN9W,@/2`U+#`P,"!R M971U<FYS(&%T("0Q+C`P(&5A8V@@)#4L,#`P+C`P(&EN(&-A<V@A#0U&:6YA M;&QY+"`U+#`P,"!P96]P;&4@;6%K92`R-3`@<&]S=&EN9W,@96%C:"!W:71H M('EO=7(@;F%M92!A="`C,2!A;F0@>6]U(&=E="!A(')E='5R;B!O9B`D-C`L M,#`P(&)E9F]R92!Y;W5R(&YA;64@9')O<',@;V9F('1H92!L:7-T+B`@06YD M('1H870G<R!O;FQY(&EF(&5V97)Y;VYE(&1O=VX@=&AE(&QI;F4@;6%K97,@ M;VYL>2`R-3`@<&]S=&EN9W,@96%C:"$@(%EO=7(@=&]T86P@:6YC;VUE(&9O M<B!T:&ES(&]N92!C>6-L92!I<R`D-34L,#`P+@T-1G)O;2!T:6UE('1O('1I M;64@=VAE;B!Y;W4@<V5E('EO=7(@;F%M92!I<R!N;R!L;VYG97(@;VX@=&AE M(&QI<W0L('EO=2!T86ME('1H92!L871E<W0@<&]S=&EN9R!Y;W4@8V%N(&9I M;F0@86YD('-T87)T(&%L;"!O=F5R(&%G86EN+@T-5&AE(&5N9"!R97-U;'0@ M9&5P96YD<R!O;B!Y;W4N("!9;W4@;75S="!F;VQL;W<@=&AR;W5G:"!A;F0@ M<F4M<&]S="!T:&ES(&%R=&EC;&4@979E<GEW:&5R92!Y;W4@8V%N('1H:6YK M(&]F+B`@5&AE(&UO<F4@<&]S=&EN9W,@>6]U(&UA:V4@=&AE(&UO<F4@8V%S M:"!E;F1S('5P(&EN('EO=7(@;6%I;&)O>"X@($ET)W,@=&]O(&5A<WD@86YD M('1O;R!C:&5A<"!T;R!P87-S=7`A(2$A#0U3;R!T:&%T<R!I="X@(%!R971T M>2!S:6UP;&4@<V]U;F1I;F<@<W1U9F8L(&AU:#\@($)U="!B96QI979E(&UE M+"!I="!W;W)K<RX@('1H97)E(&%R92!M:6QL:6]N<R!O9B!P96]P;&4@<W5R M9FEN9R!T:&4@;F5T(&5V97)Y(&1A>2P@86QL(&1A>2P@86QL(&]V97(@=&AE M('=O<FQD+B`@06YD(#$P,"PP,#`@;F5W('!E;W!L92!G970@;VX@=&AE(&YE M="!E=F5R>2!D87DN("!9;W4@:VYO=R!T:&%T+"!Y;W4G=F4@<V5E;B!T:&4@ M<W1O<FEE<R!I;B!T:&4@<&%P97(N("!3;RP@;7D@9G)I96YD+"!R96%D(&%N M9"!F;VQL;W<@=&AE('-I;7!L92!I;G-T<G5C=&EO;G,@86YD('!L87D@9F%I M<BX@(%1H870G<R!T:&4@:V5Y+B`@06YD('1H870G<R!A;&P@=&AE<F4@:7,@ M=&\@:70N("!P<FEN="!T:&ES(&]U="!R:6=H="!N;W<@<V\@>6]U(&-A;B!R M969E<B!B86-K('1O('1H:7,@87)T:6-L92!E87-I;'DN("!4<GD@=&\@:V5E M<"!A;B!E>64@;VX@86QL('1H92!P;W-T:6YG<R!Y;W4@;6%D92!T;R!M86ME M('-U<F4@979E<GEO;F4@:7,@<&QA>6EN9R!F86ER;'DN("!9;W4@:VYO=R!W M:&5R92!Y;W5R(&YA;64@<VAO=6QD(&)E+@T-268@>6]U)W)E(')E86QL>2!N M;W0@<W5R92!O<B!S=&EL;"!T:&EN:R!T:&ES(&-A;B=T(&)E(&9O<B!R96%L M+"!T:&5N(&1O;B=T(&1O(&ET+B`@0G5T('!L96%S92!P<FEN="!T:&ES(&%R M=&EC;&4@86YD('!A<W,@:70@86QO;F<@=&\@<V]M96]N92!Y;W4@:VYO=R!W M:&\@<F5A;&QY(&YE961S('1H92!B=6-K<RP@86YD('-E92!W:&%T(&AA<'!E M;G,N#0U214U%0D52+DA/3D535%D@25,@5$A%($)%4U0@4$],24-9+B`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`H86YD('1H870G<R!A9G1E<B!T=V\@;6]N=&AS*2X@(%1H96X@ M:&4@<V5N="!T:&4@-2!B:6QL<RP@<&5O<&QE(&%D9&5D(&AI;2!T;R!T:&EE M<B!L:7-T<RP@86YD(&EN(#0M-2!W965K<R!H92!D860@;W9E<B`D,3`L,#`P M(0T-5%)9($E4($%.1"!93U4G3$P@0D4@2$%04%DQ,3$-#5=!4DY)3D<Z($E4 M($E3($E,3$5'04P@5$\@55-%(%1(25,@241%02!7251(3U54(%!!64E.1R!& M3U(@250@1$\@64]5(%=!3E0@5$\@4U!%3D0@-"TW(%E%05)3($E.($I!24P@ M1D]2($U!24P@1E)!540A(2$_/S\_#0T-)"1005D@5$A/4T4@0D]42$524T]- M12!"24Q,4R0D#14`I-`OI>`]I@@'IP@'J*`%J:`%J@``________________ M____________________________________________________________ M___________________X?_____________\/________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_________________P`#``#O&```!AD```#^```````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````"=0$"``,``"8#```G`P``;0,` M`&X#``"2!```DP0``&<%``!H!0``>P4``'P%```]"```/@@``$4(``!&"``` MP`D``,$)``#3"0``Y(a)D``.\)``#X"0``^0D```D*```9"@``*`H``#`*```Q M"@``0`H``%$*``!C"@``:`H``&D*``!W"@``D`H``*L*``"P"@``L0H``+D* M``#."@``W@H``/,*``#X"@``^0H````+```!"P``MPL``/X``<`A\`#^``'` M(?``_@`!P"'P`/X``<`A\`#^``/`(?``_@`!P"'P`/X``L`A\`#^``'`(?`` M_@`!P"'P`/X``<`A\`#^``?`(?``_@`!P"'P`/X``<`A\`#^``'`(?``_@`$ MP"'P`/X``<`A\`#^``'`(?``_@`!P"'P`/X``<`A\`#^``'`(?``_@`!P"'P M`/X``<`A\`#^``'`(?``_@`!P"'P`/X``<`A\`#^``'`(?``_@`!P"'P`/X` M`<`A\`#^``'`(?``_@`!P"'P`/X``<`A\`#^``'`(?``_@`!P"'P`/X``<`A M\`#^``'`(?``_@`!P"'P`/X``<`A\`#^``'`(?``_@`!P"'P`/X``<`A\`#^ M``'`(?``_@`!P"'P`/X``<`A\`#^``'`(?``_@`"P"'P``````````````$` M`"VW"P``N`L``/0+``#U"P``_`L``/T+``#[#```_`P```,-```$#0``\PT` M`/0-```?#@``(`X``%H.``#+#@``S`X``*0/``"E#P``G1```)X0``"@$0`` MH1$``"<2```H$@``!!,```43``!.%0``3Q4``!D6```:%@``T!8``-$6```S M&```-!@``%(8``!3&```SA@``,\8``#0&```[Q@``/X``<`A\`#^``'`(?`` M_@`!P"'P`/X``<`A\`#^``'`(?``_@`#P"'P`/X``<`A\`#^``'`(?``_@`! MP"'P`/X``\`A\`#^``'`(?``_@`!P"'P`/X``<`A\`#^``'`(?``_@`"P"'P M`/X``<`A\`#^``/`(?``_@`!P"'P`/X``\`A\`#^``'`(?``_@`#P"'P`/X` M`<`A\`#^``+`(?``_@`!P"'P`/X``\`A\`#^``'`(?``_@`&P"'P`/X``<`A M\`#^``+`(?``_@`!P"'P`/X``\`A\`#^``'`(?``_@`$P"'P`/X``<`A\`#^ M``'`(?``_@`!P"'P`/X``L`A\`#^``'`(?``_@`!P"'P`/X````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M`````````````````````0``*`X`#P`(``$`2P`/```````:``!`\?\"`!H` M!DYO<FUA;``"`````P!A"00`````````````````````````(@!!0/+_H0`B M`!9$969A=6QT(%!A<F%G<F%P:"!&;VYT````````````````````[Q4```,` M[Q@`````_____P,`!"#__P$``"#__P(`!B#__P,``````/D'```:$P``[Q4` M````!P````$`M(a)````(````````#```&&0``#0```P``MPL``.\8```.``\` M`````&T"``!T`@``O0(``,,"``#$`@``R@(``#4#```^`P``D`0``)8$``!^ M!0``A@4``,0&``#(!@``R08``-(&``#4!@``X08``/P&````!P```0<```@' M```*!P``%`<``#<'```^!P``;P<``'8'``#"!P``Q@<``!X)```H"0``1`D` M`$X)``"$"0``C@D``-(*``#:"@``^0\``/\/```($```#1```#$0```T$``` M>A,``'X3``!O%```<Q0````5```%%0``YQ4``.X5``#Q%0``!P`<``<`'``' M`!P`!P`<``<`'``'`!P`!P`<``<`'``'`!P`!P`<``<`'``'`!P`!P`<``<` M'``'`!P`!P`<``<`'``'`!P`!P`<``<`'``'`!P`!P`<``<`'``'`!P`!P`< M``<`!``'`$0`#DIA;65S($AA;6EL=&]N,D,Z7$UY($1O8W5M96YT<UPD)%!! M62!42$]312!"3U1(15)33TU%($))3$Q3)"0N9&]C_T!(4"!,87-E<DIE="`U M4`!,4%0Q.@!(4%!#3#5-4P!(4"!,87-E<DIE="`U4`!(4"!,87-E<DIE="`U M4``````````````````````````$`024`$```V<`!@$``0#V!/H"```!``$` M6`(!``$`6`($```````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````&`0```@`````````````` M`0!``$U3541.`TA0($QA<V5R2F5T(#50````````````````````````Y`$` M```````[`0`````$`&0`"@```$A0($QA<V5R2F5T(#50```````````````` M``````````0!!)0`0``#9P`&`0`!`/8$^@(```$``0!8`@$``0!8`@0````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M``````````````````````8!```"```````````````!`$``35-51$X#2%`@ M3&%S97)*970@-5````````````````````````#D`0```````#L!``````0` M9``*`````X`!`.X5``#N%0``!P`!``$`[A4```````#.%0``,0`5%I`!``!4 M:6UE<R!.97<@4F]M86X`#!:0`0(`4WEM8F]L``LFD`$``$%R:6%L`"(`!`!Q M"(@8``#0`@``:`$`````\DL+QO)+"\8``````0``````+`,``!82```#``D` M```$`(,0)@```````````````P`!`````0`````````D`P````!1````(20D M)$5!4DX@34].15D@1D%35"!!3D0@3$5'251)34%410````Y*86UE<R!(86UI M;'1O;@Y*86UE<R!(86UI;'1O;@````````````#_______\/____________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M___________________X?____________P$````"`````P````0````%```` M!@````<````(````"0````H````+````#`````T````.````#P```!`````1 M````$@```/[____]____%P```/[___\?````_O______________________ M___________________^________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M________________________________________________________4@!O M`&\`=``@`$4`;@!T`'(`>0`````````````````````````````````````` M`````````````````````!8`!0'__________P$`````"0(``````,`````` M``!&````````````````X,&^#8C.NP$6````@`,```````!7`&\`<@!D`$0` M;P!C`'4`;0!E`&X`=````&U0%'E'`$,Z7$UY($1O8W5M96YT<P`````````` M````````````&@`"`0(````#````_____P`````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````C)0````````$`0P!O`&T`<`!/`&(`:@`` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```2``(!________________```````````````````````````````````` M`````````````````&H`````````!0!3`'4`;0!M`&$`<@!Y`$D`;@!F`&\` M<@!M`&$`=`!I`&\`;@````(````"`````````````````````````"@``@'_ M____!````/____\````````````````````````````````````````````` M```"````Y`$````````!````_O___P,````$````!0````8````'````"``` M``D```#^____"P````P````-````_O______________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_________________________________________P$`_O\#"@``_____P`) M`@``````P````````$88````36EC<F]S;V9T(%=O<F0@1&]C=6UE;G0`"@`` M`$U35V]R9$1O8P`0````5V]R9"Y$;V-U;65N="XV`/0YLG$````````````` M``#0SQ'@H;$:X0``````````````````_O\```0``@`````````````````` M`````0```."%G_+Y3V@0JY$(`"LGL]DP````M`$``!(````!````F`````(` M``"@`````P```,P````$````V`````4```#P````!@```/P````'````"`$` M``@````8`0``"0```#`!```2````/`$```H```!D`0``"P```'`!```,```` M?`$```T```"(`0``#@```)0!```/````G`$``!````"D`0``$P```*P!```" M````Y`0``!X````B````)"0D14%23B!-3TY%62!&05-4($%.1"!,14=)5$E- M051%`$``'@````$`````````'@````\```!*86UE<R!(86UI;'1O;@#_'@`` M``$`````````'@````$`````````'@````<```!.;W)M86P``!X````/```` M2F%M97,@2&%M:6QT;VX``!X````"````,0!L=!X````>````36EC<F]S;V9T M(%=O!0!$`&\`8P!U`&T`90!N`'0`4P!U`&T`;0!A`'(`>0!)`&X`9@!O`'(` M;0!A`'0`:0!O`&X``````````````#@``@#_______________\````````` M```````````````````````````````````````*````_``````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M`````````````````````````/_______________P`````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M````````````````________________```````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M``````#_______________\````````````````````````````````````` M``````````````````````````#^_P``!``"```````````````````````! M`````M7-U9PN&Q"3EP@`*RSYKC````#,````"`````$```!(````#P```%`` M```$````:`````4```!P````!@```'@````+````@````!````"(````#``` M`)`````"````Y`0``!X````/````1FER<W0@175R;W!E86X```,`````,@`` M`P```"8````#````"0````L`````````"P`````````,$````@```!X````B M````)"0D14%23B!-3TY%62!&05-4($%.1"!,14=)5$E-051%``,````````` M``#_________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_______________________________X?_____________\/____________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M___________________X?_____________\/________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_______X?_____________\/____________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_______________________________________________________X?___ M__________\/________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M___________________________________________X?_____________\/ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_______________________________X?_____________\/____________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M___________________X?_____________\/________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_______X?_____________\/____________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_______________________________________________________X?___ M__________\/________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M___________________________________________X?_____________\/ M___________^`/__X'__@?_\'/___________!_\!_________P/__`_____ M_C__________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_______________________________X?_____________\/___________P M``__AA_^&'_X#`__P`_``/`#^`_P`?@!_P`@!_##_\,/X`0`_!__________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M___________________X?_____________\/___________`?@/_#P_\/#_P M=`/_X'_X`?P/\`?@`/X#_\#X'^'A_X>'^!\#^`______________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_______X?_____________\/__________^!_P'^'P?X?!_@^`__\/_X`_P/ MX#/`/'X'_\#X'\/@_P^#^!\#^`__________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_______________________________________________________X?___ M__________\/__________X#_P'^'X?X?A_`_`__^/_X!_P/X'N`?SX'_\#X M'\/P_P_#^!\#^`______________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M___________________________________________X?_____________\/ M__________X'_P'\'X/P?@_`_`___/_X!_P/X'^`_[X'_\#X'X/P?@_!^!\# M_!__________________________________________________________ M_____W)D(&9O<B!7:6YD;W=S(#DU````0```````````````0``````````` M````0`````!T=/2'SKL!0`````!T=/2'SKL!`P````,````#````+`,```,` M```6$@```P````````#0SQ'@H;$:X0`````````````````````^``,`_O\` M``0``@```````````````````````0````+5S=6<+AL0DY<(`"LL^:XP```` MS`````@````!````2`````\```!0````!````&@````%````<`````8```!X M````"P```(`````0````B`````P```"0`````(a)```.0$```>````#P```$9I M<G-T($5U<F]P96%N```#`````#(```,````F`````P````D````+```````` M``L`````````#!````(````>````(@```"0D)$5!4DX@34].15D@1D%35"!! M3D0@3$5'251)34%410`#````````````T,\1X/______________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ 5____________________________ ` end

1 0

Re: RICO - (Was: Group order for Secret Power)
by Matthew J. Miszewski 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> At 03:13 AM 11/8/96 -0500, Black Unicorn wrote: > >On Thu, 7 Nov 1996, jim bell wrote: > > >> But the odd thing is, the one entity we can't seem to attack using RICO is > >> the Federal government, and probably most other governments levels. Looked > >> at purely objectively, it should be easy to demonstrate that the Federal > >> government (and its representatives) have engaged in plenty of crime as a > >> pattern of activity, and certainly enough to rise to the level of the > >> standards of RICO. (It takes only a few instances of such crime satisfy the > >> standards of RICO.) > > > >Incorrect. Employees of the Federal Government can be, and have been, > >prosecuted under RICO. Many political corruption cases involve some RICO > >aspects. This should make Mr. Bell a big fan of the statute, unless he > >just likes the flash of murdering officials instead. > > No, I meant the ENTIRE government Not just individual government officials. > Remember, RICO is _supposed_ to apply to any organization with a pattern of > criminal activity, and has been used (in fact, probably mostly used) against > organizations where many of the members are "merely" employees, quite > analogous to the Federal government. If RICO applies to anything, it should > apply to the Feds, and that means conviction of the entire organization if > it or its employees have a pattern of illegal activity. Since RICO only > requires a relatively tiny number of criminal acts to meet its standards, it > should not be difficult to show enough criminality. Jim, If it seems this easy to you, please draft the pleadings. I would strongly suggest at least a basic civil procedure book. Non-specific pleadings? That couldn't be a problem. And upon Peter's recommendation, thank you Jim for doing this brave service for the cpunks cause. "Canary in a coal mine, going on down, down..." Matt > > > Jim Bell > jimbell(a)pacifier.com -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQCNAzDq+FoAAAEEANM9+JcJmUp4aCSGpdOG4Y1b6m4630XA8H41Utbvr7Tr6wEH CD6tlxZ+k+Pycj4w/f8WQa8fC50skoLjUNeP4lYsR7NYaMGRp6WkqCLMI/3Nohvk pfLDqnzZZdwVL2liB7mfTURoF6doQaVehHmMBjSaVTfD12tzNGm6VvyEc77JAAUR tClNYXR0aGV3IEouIE1pc3pld3NraSA8bWptaXNraUBleGVjcGMuY29tPg== =lkx1 -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

1 0

Timmy
by L.Detweiler 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

just heard an interesting rumor that Timmy has been blacklisted from working anywhere here in Colorado as a dangerous anarchist and/or lunatic revolutionary. but perhaps he can still work in Silicon Valley if anyone there is willing to hire a debauched millionaire playboy. the standards are different where no one wants to live, I guess. (hmmmm, catch that recent cool article on CO in National Geographic?) besides, everyone here in CO would prefer all the anarchists stay in CA anyway so they can all be taken care of in one fell swoop with the next "big one".. did I feel a little "trembling" over there or is it just the standard cpunk cowardice? (hehehe) | /\ |\| /~ L~ L_ /~~\ | | \_ L_ http://www.csn.net/~ldetweil/

4 3