- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

Re: in defense of Lon Horiuchi
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Zooko Journeyman quoth: > Lest any naive readers who aren't familiar with the details of > the event buy this kind of spin-doctoring, please be aware that > the woman in question was probably not visible to the sniper, > and it is almost certain that he was aiming at her armed > husband who was shooting back. The bullet travelled through a > door or some such obstruction I think (I forget the details) > before hitting the victim. Zooko, About the best spin that you can put on this is that the agent was trying to shoot (again) the retreating Randy Weaver and showed an utter disregard for the safety of the others in the cabin; who were known to include women and children. This is the point. Not that all Fibbies are demonic baby-killers but that the arrogance of their agency and its government allow them to mark someone--Randy Weaver or even Jim Bell--as 'bad guy' and call out unreasonably huge campaigns against them. Once so marked, the "victim" is then helpless, completely without recourse, the "justice" system by then having been poisoned against them by the Fibbies and the prosecutors. [For those that survive long enough to have an encounter with the justice system.] > You could more reasonably blame the husband for having the > stupidity or carelessness to get in a firefight with his wife > and child in the building. I don't find that at all reasonable; since Weaver was on his own property, minding his own business before agents started shooting at him. Yes, I know he was wanted for failure to appear for a court date--that hardly justifies the whole exercise. > More generally, don't buy any of the spin that anonymous > cypherpunks (and plenty of named ones) like to put on such > stories without reading the more balanced accounts yourself. > Anonymous, above, would _like_ you to think of the FBI sniper > Lon Horiuchi as a murderous baby-killer who chuckled gleefully > when he saw his opportunity to take out a toddler. Perhaps he didn't chuckle gleefully, but he obviously didn't show much regard for the Weavers' lives either (/before/ Vicky Weaver's death that is). BTW, neither I nor anyone else has accused him of killing a toddler. > Anonymous > is no different from hatemongering pamphleteers and propaganda > ministers in any penny-ante revolution or Orwellian minitru. > Perhaps he's on the side of the good guys, but his tactics > have the same stink that I recognize from reading the > propaganda blurbs of the bad guys. Yes, I can see why you would recognize such a smell.

1 0

"Thewer Thites" of the WWW
by Mike Duvos 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

For those who are following the CPAC/Sewer frivolities, there is now a parody of Mike Paladino's "Sewer Site" at... http://www.darktimes.com/thewer/ This was apparently done by "Stereotype", the editor of Darktimes magazine, whom Paladino has been libeling for the past several weeks on the real Sewer Site. -- Mike Duvos $ PGP 2.6 Public Key available $ enoch(a)zipcon.com $ via Finger $ {Free Cypherpunk Political Prisoner Jim Bell}

1 0

selective prosecution [was Re: House National Security committee guts SAFE, worse than no bill]
by Attila T. Hun 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- in response to Bubba Rom Dos <bubba(a)dev.null>: unfortunately, the US DOJ indulges in "selective prosecution" when confronted by mass disobedience. there is nothing in the code which requires them to prosecute a 'class' of 'lawbreakers'. What they want is a few high profile targets who will be reported by their captive pet, the 'press' to set an example. the last figures I saw on the feds body count was still over 90% of those who go to trial. in most US districts, the mere fact the 'guilty scumbag' was charged by the feds indicates to most jurors (federal jurors have a tendency to be older, whiter, wealthier, etc.) that the man in the dock is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt (whose?). secondly, particularly in the federal courts, you have a man sitting 36in above you, in a black robe, with an IQ of 50, who answers to: "your honor" --and you better believe with all your heart and soul that the ignorant fool is Judge Roy Bean, the Law West of the Pecos, himself --or worse. for instance, do you think the feds would ever have a Chicago Seven trial again? what do you think the outcome would have been if they took 'em down, one at a time, in different courtrooms? think Tom Hayden would be a CA legislator today, representing the Peoples Republic of Santa Monica? dont get me wrong --if nothing else, the evidence of the absurdity of the feds actions trying to regulate an amorphous global network can always be introduced. maybe enough repetition will get the message across. and, the actions in Washington are fast approaching the necessity for the Jeffersonian call to arms: "God forbid we should ever be twenty years without a rebellion." --Thomas Jefferson, (1743-1826) I'm sure you would hav Jefferson, Franklin, Paine, etc out on the front line if they were here today (if they did not die from digust from what the Fed has become, but the trick is to make sure you are not a minority of one: "Revolutions, we must remember, are always made by minorities." --Prince Peter Kropotkin (1842-1941) unfortunately, it will take the foolishness in the face of fire as so graphically sketched in 'les miserab' to move Washington off their sacrosanct fat asses. -- I'll get a life when it is proven and substantiated to be better than what I am currently experiencing. --attila When I die, please cast my ashes upon Bill Gates. For once, let him clean up after me! ______________________________________________________________________ "attila" 1024/C20B6905/23 D0 FA 7F 6A 8F 60 66 BC AF AE 56 98 C0 D7 B0 on or about 970911:0953 Bubba Rom Dos <bubba(a)dev.null> expostulated: + Also, if need be, a system could be set up in Canada which +automatically +forwards received email to the U.K. and a chain-mail type of campaign +could begun, exhorting people to send a copy of strong encryption to +the Canadian email address, without referrring to any further +destination. + This is just a possible example, the goal being to make any possible +prosecution as convoluted and difficult as possible, just as the Govt +passes unconstitutional laws that serve their purpose for the ten years +it takes to get them struck down by the Supremes, and then they pass a +similar one to accomplish the same unconstitutional ends. +2. The same type of system could be set up, but programmed to only +forward crypto products illegally once a certain number of citizens had +forwarded a small amount of hash-cash (CPU generated funds) to the +originating computer/program. + Several thousand people openly colluding in even a single act such as +this could be effectively used to provide a challenge to the fascist +censors. If not successful, then the amount and destinations of the +exported crypto could be increased to the point of making the export +restrictions a total joke. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: latin1 Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be iQCVAwUBNBhClb04kQrCC2kFAQH+JwP/ZnrJZHXZIiR+ddt/XH2tOfb33/uOYQ+Z CSNlUd2tS8ujgVqzfcywKhKPU6f4gFQzwXX76S7Ahf6mWagVzLoxqfTuCrzHdCFb 8PkLct5uXHcmUH4LGDVwTYr7R/or7ZozPEW9ERFJK1N6fPwhukFSl83WYtCR8kKl yhhx97VTuGk= =zvaj -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

1 0

[COMMERCIAL] Scars and stripes forever
by Firebeard 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- http://www.diamdcom.com/previews/premier/unclesam_feature.html Scars and stripes forever UNCLE SAM "There's nothing we can do for you." The dismissive doctor's words echo in the old vagrant's head as he's ejected from a hospital. Moments later, the other voices return. They're about to take him on a journey to the dark heart of America in UNCLE SAM, a two-issue Prestige Format VERTIGO miniseries, fully painted by award-winning painter Alex Ross (KINGDOM COME) and written by Steve Darnall (the Eisner Award-nominated Empty Love Stories). Clad in star-spangled rags, a man named Sam wanders city streets, struggling to remember his true identity. As the voices in his head begin to make a terrible kind of sense, they set off time-traveling visions that drag him through the worst of his nation's history, while hinting that he may have a violent past of his own. Is he Uncle Sam - or one of U.S.? Through it all, a mysterious woman keeps appearing, staying just out of reach. Is she Sam's lover, ally, or just, in the end, a madman's dream? He won't have all the answers until he reaches "a white city by the unsalted sea" - and a most formidable foe. Darnall and Ross team up for a multilayered look at the failed dreams and fallen heroes of a nation under siege...from itself. Told through a mystery man's eyes, UNCLE SAM sweeps from the Revolutionary War to the Dust Bowl and beyond. In his VERTIGO debut, Alex Ross takes his remarkably realistic style to new heights, using spectacular splash pages and a wide-ranging palette to bring America's darkest historical moments - as well as a hallucinatory parade of other American icons - to life. - -- #include <disclaimer.h> /* Sten Drescher */ Unsolicited bulk email will be stored and handled for a US$500/KB fee. "A well-regulated population being necessary to the security of a police state, the right of the Government to keep and destroy arms shall not be infringed." -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.4, an Emacs/PGP interface iQBVAwUBNBh2PPCBWKvC9LiRAQH6fgH/c7oOvSs9ArNDFTbz/VHYBYqEzY7teHPQ 3YP7l6P+O5RAo9aUcPxgVRsnWG91iB4vUqwws1WRVholtIcKZ3DP8A== =4hBM -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

1 0

Re: Cypherpunk Press <sarcasm>
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Michael Wilson wrote: > After all, if individuals have no right to privacy, why should any > organization have one? Is the right to privacy and secrecy something > that comes from additive rights? Does it come from possession of > military force, up to and including nuclear weapons? What's the line? > I personally wouldn't mind knowing the threshold I need to cross to > have a 'right' to privacy. It gives me a goal. toto(a)sk.sympatico.ca is currently offering a suitcase, for a mere $1,000,000 which should guarantee your privacy. simply let the proper authorities know that you have the suitcase in your possession, and they will recognize you as a compatriot and leave you alone.

1 0

Re: Freeh says FBI doing great, supports Weaver killer
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tim May wrote: > I wonder how the SS at Stanford will react to my "Death Penalty for Waco > Commander in Chief!" placard? Any truth to the rumor that Kent Crispin will be beside you with a placard saying "I'm not a shill--I'm a pawn."? CrispinCritter

2 1

Let sleeping dogs lay
by Tim May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

"Nothing good can come out of crypto legislation." --said by several of us over the past year The big mistake was ever introducing the SAFE and Pro-CODE bills, as it brought the NSA and FBI out of their warrens and into the warrens of Congress. Without any crypto bills at all, it is possible (though by no means certain) that no legislation at all would have been introduced this year. But once SAFE and Pro-CODE were out there, on the table, the forces in favor of a surveillance state began their lobbying in earnest, giving the infamous "if you only knew what we knew" scare tactic pitches. Last minute amendments and even complete bill replacements are easier to slip in than a Big Brother bill from the gitgo. Sure enough, the tide is now moving swiftly toward a future far, far, far worse than the mere annoyance of export controls. Several committees are now competing to see which can "protect us" from the Four Horsemen the best. The archives say this many times. For a change, and to forestall criticism, I'll find a quote from someone other than me. For example, Mike Duvos said this, last June, 1997-06-19: "You really can't fight Congress. Ten minutes after you defeat a bill and spend all your resources, it will be back on the floor under another name and the whole thing will start over again. After you defeat that one, you will discover that the text of the measure got passed late one night as an ammendment to something completely unrelated. "The government has infinite resources to harp incessantly on anything until they engineer consent for it and get what they want. Resistance is Futile. You will be Assimilated." Recall that several of us were involved in a serious battle with Rotenberg over the basic wisdom of the CDT and EPIC types pushing for export legislation, with (even then) unacceptable language about "use a cipher, go to prison." The current language is of course a full-blown disaster. Pandora's box was opened by SAFE and Pro-CODE. And so here we are. Multiple committees in both houses jockeying to see who can clamp down the hardest on crypto. CDT, EPIC, and all the other Beltway insiders ought to think about this mess. Sometimes it's better just to let sleeping dogs lay. Or lie. Or whatever. Time to just pull out of D.C. It is corruption on Earth. --Tim May There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws. Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!" ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

1 0

Re: in defense of Lon Horiuchi (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: in defense of Lon Horiuchi > Date: Thu, 11 Sep 97 20:07:27 -0400 > >Even dumb ole me, who ain't no crack shot, with one of those nifty > >(off theshelf) Styer-Mannlicher countersniper rifles with the neato > >Zeiss autoranging scope was able to punch a coke can 5 for 5 after > >one ranging(cheater) shot at 600 meters. I'm told that the FBI has > >much nicer rifles than that. And I ain't trained. > > > >(couldn't hit the Mountain Dew can, couldn't see it) > > Horiuchi shot Mrs Weaver at slightly over 200 meters .... not much o > of a chnace he didn't hit what he was aiming at ... which begs the > question of *wha* was he aiming at? The rules of engagement > promulgated by Louis Freehs buddy Potts (I think) were nothing more > than a death warrant and I have heard that most of the FBI marksmen > balked at them ... but not good ole 'doin what I'm told to do' Lon ... > yeah right! Whether what he did was right or wrong needs to be decided in a court of criminal law. He killed an individual in the name of the people using our tax dollars, the people are deserving of an accounting. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there | | be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves. | | | | -Alan Greenspan- | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http:// www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

1 0

RE: Hiawatha Bray's column on key-recovery crypto
by Jim Ray 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 09:44 AM 9/11/97 -0400, Hiawatha Bray wrote: >What a cool idea! Why didn't I think of that? > >Hiawatha > >On Thursday, September 11, 1997 9:41 AM, Arnold G. Reinhold [SMTP:reinhold@worl > >> >> Hiawatha, I enjoyed your column (Boston Globe Business Section Sept. 11), >> but why don't you announce that you have a PGP key, print it's signature in >> a column and ask people to use it to send you news tips? This would enable >> a freedom of the press challange to GAK. Further, he could give pointers to Private Idaho, John Doe, etc., and encourage the use of anonymous tips to the newsmedia. Since I operate a cyberspace parking garage (the WinSock Remailer) and since the Lippo Administration is the most Nixonian since Tricky himself, I would think that the major media would be up-in-arms over threats to anonymous communication over the web. After all, which reporter-team doesn't want to be the next Woodward and Bernstein? I can understand (while not agreeing with...) my local rag's opposition to the second amendment, but the total apathy shown to dangers faced by the first is hard to fathom. I read the Herald pretty carefully, yet there has been NOTHING this week on the crypto-controversy. Nothing. While I often disagree with the Miami Herald's reporting decisions (both substance and emphasis) it is rare that I find it this scary. <sigh> JMR P.S. When *Seth* said, "(and wow, do they like to rant on every issue)" about Libertarians, my irony-meter broke its needle. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Freedom isn't Freeh. iQEPAwUBNBh3ITUhsGSn1j2pAQF4BQfPZqEWo714dVrd0tQH+fk3jN2nzwUEtlGh wB6ggUbEJ1GX+LaGdEnWlM1xfFYvIB+ej/3PHumw7P3yIYYNt4XI480LVEEFxfWO nohAmIOe19+zt73wTZ1Oa9cNDYdOAbrMS5YW3BeyCY1i6nGkaCqXQteaoEJ4MxE1 V+jRIW9sJAdll4+ATw+xzQafl4K8uFk0soCcaupb05FeJVkLseiBxmLl1kBQwOpr 3Y6O8gO8v+ZmlaWsehlgciM47jkOpaAKNX+4b2mHx0+NrfQcfXNQWQ6JoNbx5NaO L35zof4Ds0bt+t3sIiQG7i7kR5Bbsul4vSfb6R14TtZ6Og== =HOEQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

5 6

Cypherpunks Bay Area Meeting, This Satuday September 13th
by Lucky Green 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 06:08:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Hugh Daniel <hugh(a)ecotone.xanadu.com> To: cypherpunks-announce(a)toad.com Subject: Cypherpunks Bay Area Meeting, This Satuday September 13th Reply-to: hugh(a)xanadu.com What: Cypherpunks September 1997 Bay Area Meeting When: Saturday September 13, 12 noon till 5pm Where: PGP World Headquarters, 2nd floor meeting room Bayview Bank Building, just south of Hwy. 92 2121 S. El Camino Real, San Mateo California http://www.pgp.com/pgpcorp/contactpgp.cgi#head Agenda: Forbes Article background, everyone Cypherpunks at HIP'97, Lucky Green, David Del Torto Ecash announcement, Jeremey Barrett, BlueMoney Software Corp. Linux Onion Router, Jeremey Barrett Diffie-Helman Free of Patent, ??? New FBI Anti-Crypto Bill, how to react, everyone Domain name conference report, John Gilmore Attacks on US remailers etc., Bill Stewart ??? After: Eat dinner somewhere yet to be decided... PGP Building Access: This is an Open Meeting on US Soil and it is free for anyone to attend. There is a minor building security formality due to the facilities being in a bank building: anytime after 12 noon, approach the Bayview Building's Information window (in the plaza, see below for directions), and ask the Guard on Duty to let you up to the 2nd Floor for the Cypherpunks meeting (use the passphrase "cypherpunks release code"). If you have any difficulty (eg. if the guard is on a break), simply call DDT at +1 415 730 3583 he I'll let you in. You can arrive at any time during the scheduled meeting hours, though earlier is better if you want to hear the interesting stuff. --Lucky Green <shamrock(a)netcom.com> PGP encrypted mail preferred. DES is dead! Please join in breaking RC5-56. http://rc5.distributed.net/

1 0