- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

Re: Stronghold
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Lucky Green <shamrock(a)cypherpunks.to> writes: > On Thu, 2 Oct 1997, Anonymous wrote: > > > > > C2Net was wrong to censor the cypherpunks list in the guise of moderation. > > It was wrong to send threatening letters to people who claimed its > > products were weak. The whole moderation/censorship experiment was a > > terrible mistake. The actions taken by C2Net were completely unjustified. > > Where do people get these bizarre ideas? C2 didn't censor the list. A guy > who happened to work for C2 dropped some messages from one list. The > messages still went out on the unfiltered list. Had he worked for Mc > Donald's or the the NYC Sanitiation Department, would you blame them for > this as well? Are you serious? The messages dropped were those which made (spurious) claims of weaknesses in C2 products. And later messages were dropped which attempted to discuss the dropping of earlier messages. The effect was that subscribers to the filtered list not only were not exposed to the messages critical of C2, they were prevented from knowing that a controversy existed about the filtering policies. There can be little doubt of the truth of these facts. One of us is remembering things wrongly. And yes, if the moderator were a McDonalds employee and he not only dropped messages which criticized McDonalds, but also filtered out later messages complaining about his actions, then I'd jolly well blame him.

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Re: "Show me an example of terrorists using the Internet or (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 18:22:26 -0700 > From: Blanc <blancw(a)cnw.com> > Subject: Re: "Show me an example of terrorists using the Internet or > crypto" > Stalkers, thieves, rapists, drug addicts, perverts, etc., or just real > animals from the animal kingdom, strike at the most inopportune times, when > there are no officially sanctioned police forces around to be of help. I have to object to the inclusion of drug addicts, they do what they do because the legislators and police want to stick their noses in other peoples business. If drug addicts resort to crime then society as a whole must garner some of the responsibility of putting them in that situation. In short the methods we use to control drug use in this country promote crime. This does not apply to others who would do this anyway and happen to take drugs, which means the drug laws are clearly unreasonable. > something of practical use, and quickly. They could use karate, or > ju-jitsu, or ninja stars, or call their dog to attack, or yell for help, or Isn't killing dogs a bad thing? I am shure my dog thinks so. Perhaps their is a lesson to be had in comparative psychology here. It's much easier to ask another entity to die for you because you consider them different and therefore of less value in the grand scheme of things. Human history is full of such instances. This also happens to be the rationale a lot if not all burglars use to justify their actions as well. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there | | be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves. | | | | -Alan Greenspan- | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http:// www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Not that I'm a troublemaker...
by Tim W. May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

THE CLASSIC MIDDLE NAME (continued) * In Alabama, murderer Billy Wayne Waldrop was executed in January, and the next month, murderer Dudley Wayne Kyzer was turned down for parole. Two weeks later, murderer Coleman Wayne Gray was executed in Virginia. In May, murderer Larry Wayne White was executed in Texas. In July, Maryland inmate Richard Wayne Willoughby was sentenced to life in prison for killing another inmate. And once again this April 19, the nation was reminded that the Oklahoma City bombing date commemorated not only the seige at Waco, but the 1995 Arkansas execution of murderer and militia hero Richard Wayne Snell. AUTHENTICITY: All news stories mentioned in News of the Weird are from news stories appearing in daily newspapers in the U. S. and Canada (or occasionally, reputable daily newspapers in other countries or other reputable magazines and journals). No so-called supermarket tabloid, and no story that was not intended to be "news," is ever the source of a News of the Weird story.

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Re: http:--www.cnn.com-US-9710-01-shooting.update-
by geeman＠best.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Crypto relevance? Naturally: this wouldn't have happened if strong crypto were outlawed! At 09:51 PM 10/1/97 -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > > CNN logo > Navigation > > Infoseek/Big Yellow > > TEEN KILLS 2 AT SCHOOL; MOTHER FOUND DEAD AT HOME > > Woodham October 1, 1997 > Web posted at: 3:38 p.m. EDT (1938 GMT) > > PEARL, Mississippi (CNN) -- A Mississippi teen-ager slashed his > mother's throat Wednesday morning before going on a shooting rampage > at his high school that left two students dead and at least six > wounded, authorities said. > > The high school junior, Luke Woodham, was arrested and charged with > three counts of murder shortly after the shooting at Pearl High > School, about three miles east of the state capital, Jackson. > > Police Chief Bill Slade choked back tears as he told reporters, > "This was a disgruntled girlfriend-boyfriend thing... We talked to > the youth. He gave us a statement and his manifesto was that he felt > he had been wronged." > etc,..,. obligatory pgp key: -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 4.5 mQENAjMPX3sAAAEIAL8U6IqpMkqM3TcIqU/q7iot8pYk4ifVNaNlIYwwoYmPXH/T dabDzgkQg7h1QsEJU71Ze8EdHmKksfeBEVppJV6X9SyzpFOCgrI/Qr7hMbxnecci SVk2/B2lf4tUPuqm/DGRfAUcd4iG7Gjhw5GRh9Us/jrEtkqr3iIES+9pSNvrEsgB xYYR39eaYwe0gheExaO7vtvDDPUM7C3spbcnwOyLCpURpLCAMHUO8DQc2FO/fN4z TqqIFOect2ea4LYHr0o29RrtY9J85lQj3df8LQvIJWjwzAFfBqOU1KUdXqTayzUj rvY4ZL/1vhTJ5QmlBJ6ognqwk7PVN0SesspU2okABRG0IGdyZWdnIHBlcnNvbmFs IDxnZWVtYW5AYmVzdC5jb20+ =H0bC -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

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Re: Digital Postage (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: Digital Postage (fwd) > Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 00:09:22 -0500 (CDT) > From: "snow" <snow(a)smoke.suba.com> > He of the Hyperlong .sig said: I could make it even longer if it would irritate you more... > > Ask yourself this, how attractive would the Internet have been if it had > > required users to install and manage multiple communications protocols for > > every connection? > > You mean like FTP, NNTP, HTTP, SMTP & etc.? > > Rudy can't fail. No, not services, network protocols TCP/IP/UDP...IPX...NetBUI...Lantastic...MosesLAN...ParNet...etc. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there | | be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves. | | | | -Alan Greenspan- | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http:// www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Clipper IV Proposal
by Dave Banisar 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

FYI, The Clipper IV Proposal is now up at the EPIC Web site at: http://www.epic.org/crypto/key_escrow/clipper4_statement.html Dave _________________________________________________________________________ Subject: Clipper IV Proposal _________________________________________________________________________ David Banisar (Banisar(a)epic.org) * 202-544-9240 (tel) Electronic Privacy Information Center * 202-547-5482 (fax) 666 Pennsylvania Ave, SE, Suite 301 * HTTP://www.epic.org Washington, DC 20003 * ftp/gopher/wais cpsr.org

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Re: "Show me an example of terrorists using the Internet or (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 00:08:09 -0700 > From: Blanc <blancw(a)cnw.com> > Subject: Re: "Show me an example of terrorists using the Internet or > (fwd) > >> Stalkers, thieves, rapists, drug addicts, perverts, etc., or just real > >> animals from the animal kingdom, strike at the most inopportune times, when > >> there are no officially sanctioned police forces around to be of help. > > > >I have to object to the inclusion of drug addicts, they do what they do > >because the legislators and police want to stick their noses in other > >peoples business. If drug addicts resort to crime then society as a whole > >must garner some of the responsibility of putting them in that situation. > > We weren't discussing why people commit crimes against others, Jim. We > were discussing the disagreeability of having & using guns. True but my objection is to the line of reasoning you use to get to where you are. Let me try another example... "Stalkers, thieves, rapists, Jews, perverts, etc., or just real animals..." ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there | | be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves. | | | | -Alan Greenspan- | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http:// www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

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Netly News special report: "The Privacy Snatchers"
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Recently the FBI has started to demand a creepy new anti-privacy law. It requires that all future technologies -- from cell phones to WordPerfect -- include a kind of electronic peephole to let law enforcement agents snoop through your private files and communications without your knowledge or permission. One House committee has already approved the FBI's bill. Such easy access is the fantasy of every unethical policeman and corrupt bureaucrat. Now, the police say they'll never peek through this peephole without a judge's approval. But history reveals that time and again, the FBI, the military and other law enforcement organizations have ignored the law and spied on Americans illegally, without court authorization. Government agencies have subjected hundreds of thousands of law-abiding Americans to unjust surveillance, illegal wiretaps and warrantless searches. Eleanor Roosevelt, Martin Luther King, feminists, gay rights leaders and Catholic priests were spied on. Even Supreme Court justices were monitored. Can we trust the FBI? Visit the Netly News for a special report on The Privacy Snatchers: http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/opinion/0,1042,1466,00.html -Declan ------ http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/opinion/0,1042,1466,00.html The Netly News (http://netlynews.com/) October 3, 1997 The Privacy Snatchers By Declan McCullagh (declan(a)well.com) ------ ------------------------- Declan McCullagh Time Inc. The Netly News Network Washington Correspondent http://netlynews.com/

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Stanglehold / Re: Stronghold
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Alan wrote: > C2Net should have demanded proof instead of getting defensive. That > worries me, not because of "hidden backdoors", but because it shows lack of > confidence in their own products. But lack of confidence has nothing to do > with actual strength of the product. Let's think about this for a moment. RSA is so confident in their product that they openly challenge people to prove its strength or weakness, even offering them money out of their own pocket if they cn do so. C2Net, at the merest whisper by the least credible of persons, launches into action an army of litigators to threaten said individual with dire consequences if they fail to duck and cover, not to mention 'shut the fuck up.' Hhhmmmm...... > If you do have evidence and refuse to post it, then you are just helping > C2Net. If I had evidence of a backdoor in C2Net's Stronghold software, and I met with so little support when attacked by them, I would refuse to post it. Why? To let all of C2Net's staunch defenders feel all the more confident in placing their big, hairy balls in the StrangleHold of C2Net's software. Of course, if I were C2Net and I *did* have a backdoor built into my software, I would probably try to link any criticism of my product with the rantings of mentally unstable paranoics. Which begs the question, is Dimitri the 'foil' of C2Net, or a 'creation' of C2Net? TruthMonger "Creator of the 2-way mirror."

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InfoWar 29 / (Part III of 'The True Story of the InterNet')
by C. Crockett Flintstone 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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