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Eureka! Thu Jan 22 '98
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17 Dec '03

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security and hidden networks (was On the LAM--Local Area Mixes)
by Rishab Aiyer Ghosh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

summary this post suggests that technically, routing through a sub-network does not necessarily increase complexity or hinder traffic analysis, as it can be treated as a virtual node. given that, LAM-type networks may not provide much protection in a politically unkind environment. i also suggest a way of rating (or classifying) secure networks based on how well they hide suspect data and routes in other traffic. as this in response to tim may's LAM post, i'll respond quoting that. Tim May <tcmay(a)got.net> writes: >A message would enter the physical site, bounce around to N machines, and >exit, perhaps going to other machines and sites, and back again, etc. (The >image was of perhaps 20 or 30 cheap PCs linked with Ethernet in a set of >apartments in Berkeley--obtaining search warrants or court orders to allow >monitoring of all 20 or 30 machines, scattered across several physical >addresses, would be "problematic.") i won't repeat my objections to a reliance on "problematic" court orders, which i've made in another post. let us simply assume, for example, that i am the NSA, and i don't need court orders, but i'm a sneaky sort so i don't want to go in with guns blazing just yet. Alice has a network, alice.net, 10.1.1.0. she has many machines on this network, some hers, some belonging to Bob. when Alice and Bob plan stink-bomb attacks on the IRS (sorry, when they, or Li-Xia and Bu-pang, write articles on human rights violations in xinjiang) to Carol and David, outside their network, they first bounce their packets around their 30 machines. i sniff all packets going into and out of the network 10.1.1.0, from the upstream provider (Alice has her whole building in a faraday cage, which is ok because she never tries to use her mobile phone indoors). so. does it matter in the least, to me, whether alice wrote her last rant from kitchen.alice.net (10.1.1.1) or garage.alice.net (10.1.1.2) or whether it was actually Bob - Bob Inc, to be safe - from 10.1.1.33? it could matter politically/legally (if i wanted to prosecute) or technically (if i want to trace traffic down, to, from or through alice's net). technically first: it doesn't really matter. i treat alice's net as a hermetically sealed virtual "node"... >-- the routing topology of the site may be an interesting area to look at. >Ideally, a "Linda"-like broadcast topology (all machines see all packets, >like messages in a bottle thrown into the "sea") could have certain ... which is all the more correct topologically if broadcast addresses (10.1.1.255) are used. so i treat alice's net as a single node, and monitor traffic as it enters and leaves that "node". just as i would monitor traffic entering and leaving a single machine, without caring much which disk drive or memory bank it passed through. with a single physical entry and exit point to the network it can be treated exactly as if it were a single node for the purposes of any traffic analysis (security/traceability). multiple physical connections might complicate it slightly, but if i'm sniffing them all, and they connect to the same set of machines (i.e. the same network), not much (if it's IP the address spaces may differ but that's a minor matter). depending on what remailer math tells us - and we really do need remailer math, as tim pointed out! - bouncing traffic around sub-nets may have little impact on security. it could remain the same; i don't see how it could become much better; it could plausibly get worse, if multiple nodes in a single subnet can eat into your random route hops resulting in concentration of traffic through fewer virtual "nodes". the only situation in which this isn't true is if the source and destination of traffic are both within the sealed network - presumably what would happen most of the time with tim's suggestion of voice/high-bandwidth stuff. now for the political/legal bit. given that i'd like to see cypherpunk technology as daring enough to be of use outside western democracies, let's look at a slightly challenging situation. you're a bunch of people, each with your own firm for added safety, in this building. now i'm not a decent american cop, worried about court orders etc. ok, i don't exactly want to shoot all of you at once. but if i am satisfied (which i could be, using technical methods) that lots of "suspicious" stuff is coming from your network, then i'll certainly come in and reeducate you all on your "errors and distortions." (sorry, just finished a week of watching andrzej wajda films at a retrospective.) oho. it's a BIG building. and i don't really suspect all of you. ok, i go have a chat with the network admin - Alice - and hold her responsible. she has great respect for the government and police and would never write such a nasty thing as "the state tortures political prisoners?" uh oh. so i tell her that for the good of the country she must let someone listen in at her machine ("you didn't keep logs? ah, that was a mistake, no?") - i'm now inside, and the sealed network shrinks. of course if i'm impatient and don't believe her innocent approach, i just use the rubber hose. the same goes for multiple physical links into the same network. can _technology_ - rather than relying on law-abiding cops, and rights-abiding laws - provide a solution? the key is the BIG building. the more non-suspicious routes there are - i.e. a route through normal, unsuspected people, typically but not necessarily outside the physically well-protected area - the harder to usefully treat a network as a virtual node. looking at 10.1.1.0 as a node may help, just 256 people there; but 10.1.0.0 is a bit big to make a coherent "node" so although a LAM may be a great way to _test_ new tech and protocols out, i'd think it a big mistake to actually deploy it, as it were, on a large scale. it wouldn't help at all in the tough spots, and it would only serve to make the easier spots tougher, strengthening the immune system of would-be tyrannical states (i.e. the nicer western democracies). in general "WAMs" would be much more helpful and secure. the other thing that helps is of course the degree of non-suspicious traffic on suspected routes. putting them together, i think you can get some measure of the utility of a protocol and topology. the ideal would a) make it technically impossible to trace the route of suspicious traffic; and b) make it politically/legally difficult to prosecute originators/destinations of suspicious traffic. it would do this by a) blurring the distinction between suspicious and "regular" routes; and b) make it difficult to distinguish suspicious from harmless traffic on those routes; c) make it difficult or impossible to block suspicious routes or intercept/monitor suspicious traffic without causing unacceptable deterioration of service for "ordinary" traffic. two ratios seem useful to me as a way of organising cryptoanarchic network protocols. suspicious routes/ordinary routes; suspicious/ordinary traffic on any route. an ideal universal DC-Net with padding to keep constant throughput would have both ratios tending towards 1 - there is only one route - broadcast - for everyone; and traffic is constant so the degree of really suspicious stuff is unknown. pure Blacknet-type systems tend towards [1,0] - there is only one route, assuming everyone uses it. but without padding, you could suspect all traffic. Pipenet tends towards [0,1] - there are many routes, and they're all pretty suspicious as it's possible for the monitor to discriminate among them. but traffic is constant, so you don't know when to suspect. regards, rishab First Monday - The Peer-Reviewed Journal on the Internet http://www.firstmonday.dk/ Munksgaard International Publishers, Copenhagen Intl & Managing Editor - Rishab Aiyer Ghosh (ghosh(a)firstmonday.dk) Mobile +91 98110 14574; Fax +91 11 2209608; Tel +91 11 2454717 A4/204 Ekta Apts., 9 Indraprastha Extn, New Delhi 110092 INDIA

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CP Bust or Buyout?
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Not much from the West Coast since the C2-CP meet on Saturday. Were they all busted, or fragged, or has the underground mole hole at last been taken? What, C2 shanghai-ed them all, with irrefusable bucks galore to securely distribute porn, NDA$ accomplishing what TLAs couldn't.

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Gore Commission wants to regulate the Net like broadcast
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:28:24 -0800 (PST) From: Declan McCullagh <declan(a)well.com> To: politech(a)vorlon.mit.edu Subject: FC: Gore Commission wants to regulate the Net like broadcast ************* Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:20:23 -0500 From: Alan Moseley <amoseley(a)clark.net> To: declan(a)well.com Subject: the Gore Commission and digital media The Gore Commission -- the group created by Clinton to determine the future public interest obligations of digital TV broadcasters -- showed signs last week of broadening its reach to include other digital media that can deliver broadcast-like audio and video. Significantly, the group discussed the possibility of including other digital media in their recommendations after viewing a demonstration of the Internet's potential to provide audio and video. If digital TV broadcasters can be made to serve some notion of the "public interest" through government-mandated programming and restrictions on programming, is it not a short step for the government to regulate other digital content-providers? This group should be watched carefully as they discuss future regulations on digital speech. The Media Institute (http://www.mediainst.org) a First Amendment advocacy group based in Washington, has issued the following press release on this subject: --------------------- Media Institute's Public Interest Council Sees Danger in Gore Commission Suggestion Washington, Jan. 20 -- The prospect of extending government-mandated public interest obligations beyond the broadcasting industry, raised in comments by the co-chairman of the Gore Commission, illustrates both the lack of justification for and danger in these proceedings, The Media Institute's Public Interest Council said today. The Council was reacting to comments last Friday by Norman Ornstein, co-chairman of the Advisory Committee on Public Interest Obligations of Digital Television Broadcasters, at an open meeting of the group in Washington. Following a demonstration of "video streaming" Internet technology and a discussion of digital convergence, Ornstein noted that mandatory public interest obligations on broadcasters may not be sufficient. He suggested that the Advisory Committee (popularly known as the Gore Commission) might want to examine the public interest role of other digital media as well. Ornstein questioned "whether we should be making this really firm distinction, saddling broadcasters...with heavy public interest obligations, and letting others get off scot-free." Media Institute President Patrick D. Maines, speaking for the Institute's Public Interest Council, challenged that idea: "The mere mention of that possibility -- extending the 'public interest' rationale to other media -- should raise alarms for anyone who values our country's constitutional guarantees of free speech and free press. "We already have a presidential commission considering whether to recommend additional public interest obligations for broadcasters solely because they will be converting to digital technology. Mr. Ornstein's comments illustrate the ominous ease with which government might attempt to impose so-called public interest obligations on other types of digital media, such as on-line information services, DBS, cable, and perhaps even newspapers that are digitally transmitted to printing plants," Maines said. "The Gore Commission is correct to note that over-the-air television is far from the only medium serving today's consumer. That felicitous fact, however, ought to lead the Commission to recommend a lessening of the obligations on broadcasters, not an increase on broadcasters and everyone else." The recent experience of the Communications Decency Act demonstrates the government's willingness to control digital speech. The digital convergence argument could be a new rationale for further such interventions, Maines warned. Maines spoke on behalf of The Media Institute's Public Interest Council, a four-member group created recently to study the public interest question and to follow the work of the Gore Commission. Members include communications attorneys Robert Corn-Revere and J. Laurent Scharff, and constitutional scholars Robert M. O'Neil and Laurence H. Winer. Information about The Media Institute, its Public Interest Council, and the Gore Commission is available on-line at http://www.mediainst.org. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- the moderated mailing list of politics and technology To subscribe: send a message to majordomo(a)vorlon.mit.edu with this text: subscribe politech More information is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------

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javasoft password?
by Adam Shostack 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

http://developer.javasoft.com ok, so who set the password for the cypherpunks account here, and why isn't it cypherpunks or writecode? :) Adam -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume

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Microsoft and DoJ: which one has guns?
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

A long-sounded theme at least on cpunks... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:51:19 -0800 (PST) From: Declan McCullagh <declan(a)well.com> To: politech(a)vorlon.mit.edu Subject: FC: More on Don Boudreaux "Calm Down" letter on Microsoft My article on the politics of antitrust: http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/opinion/0,1042,1678,00.html -Declan ******** Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:35:48 -0500 From: James Love <love(a)cptech.org> To: declan(a)well.com Subject: Re: FC: "Calm down!" -- Don Boudreaux letter to NYT on Microsoft Calm down Don Bx, If Microsoft really has great software, it doesn't need to use these heavy handed tactics. jl -- James Love Consumer Project on Technology P.O. Box 19367, Washington, DC 20036 love(a)cptech.org | http://www.cptech.org 202.387.8030, fax 202.234.5176 ********** Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:09:14 -0500 From: Don Bx <dboudreaux(a)fee.org> To: Declan McCullagh <declan(a)well.com> Subject: Re: FC: "Calm down!" -- Don Boudreaux letter to NYT on Microsoft (fwd) Sincere thanks to all who wrote in response to my letter to the NY Times. One point: Vigorous competition and clever marketing are NOT anticompetitive. Yes, Microsoft owes much of its success to hard bargaining; yes, Microsoft is a wiz at marketing; and yes, Microsoft's products are not as good (in an engineering or technical sense) as are some products produced by rivals. But antitrust law is meant neither to outlaw hard bargaining and marketing, nor to ensure that only the technologically best products survive on the market. Too many computer experts wrongfully infer from the fact that MS's products aren't the best available to the conclusion that, therefore, MS's success is illegitimate. Such a conclusion would be like saying that General Motors's success is illegitimate in light of the fact that Lexus and Porshe make better automobiles. Bill Gates may be an ass; I don't know and I don't care. I never met the man. But I do know that antitrust law has done great damage to this nation's economy during the past 100+ years. The DOJ has guns; Bill Gates doesn't. When DOJ enters the picture, it literally threatens to shoot consumers and businesses who refuse to do as it says; Bill Gates makes no such threats. For that reason alone I'm all for keeping Bill Gates free of government interference. Don Boudreaux -------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- the moderated mailing list of politics and technology To subscribe: send a message to majordomo(a)vorlon.mit.edu with this text: subscribe politech More information is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------

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SC rules 1st doesn't cover lies [CNN]
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > > SUPREME COURT: GOVERNMENT AGENCIES CAN PUNISH WORKERS WHO LIE > > January 21, 1998 > Web posted at: 2:53 p.m. EST (1953 GMT) > > WASHINGTON (AP) -- Government agencies can punish employees who lie > while being investigated for employment-related misconduct, the > Supreme Court ruled unanimously Wednesday. > > The court overturned rulings in five separate cases that had barred > federal agencies from stiffening the disciplinary action taken > against wayward employees based on false statements they made when > questioned about their misconduct. > > Although the decision dealt with federal employees, its rationale > appeared to affect state and local government employees as well. > Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist wrote for the court that nothing > in the Constitution nor any federal law bars such punishment. > > "A citizen may decline to answer the question, or answer it > honestly, but he cannot with impunity knowingly and willfully answer > with a falsehood," Rehnquist said. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

3 2

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17 Dec '03

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politics of topology (was On the LAM--Local Area Mixes)
by Rishab Aiyer Ghosh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

m k gandhi used to say that it was good india was colonised by the _british_ - the poor fools were vulnerable to non-violent rational argument and (relatively) concerned about such oddities as human rights. one problem with tim may's idea for local area mixes is just that: relying on US stickliness on wimpy rules for search/interception is all very well, but wouldn't fly in china. i won't get into the argument over how awful the US state is here, but if all cypherpunk technology can fight is the "tyrannical" democracies of the west, it's not much good, IMNSHO. besides, if such technology becomes widespread in, say, the US, then it's inevitable that the authorities will tend towards more _real_ tyrannical behaviour, diluting search/seizure protections and taking you closer to china. a weak vaccine _strengthens_ the microbe it is supposed to kill. today your tech may let you plan stink-bomb attacks on the IRS in peace; tomorrow it may not be sufficient to let you publish articles critical of the goverment. i always thought the cypherpunk idea ("write code" etc) was to develop tech that is _independent_ of political protections. technology will not undermine the power of governments, if it is based on (incorrect) assumptions that governments will continue to restrain themselves (e.g. search & seizure) when faced by increasing use of such tech. i should think that LAMs would be excellent test-beds for larger-scale systems, but it is larger-scale systems, where you don't assume the government's _not_ snooping because it's squeamish, that matter more. best, -rishab First Monday - The Peer-Reviewed Journal on the Internet http://www.firstmonday.dk/ Munksgaard International Publishers, Copenhagen Intl & Managing Editor - Rishab Aiyer Ghosh (ghosh(a)firstmonday.dk) Mobile +91 98110 14574; Fax +91 11 2209608; Tel +91 11 2454717 A4/204 Ekta Apts., 9 Indraprastha Extn, New Delhi 110092 INDIA

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Two Turntables and a Clipper Chip
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Two turntables and a Clipper chip By Skinny DuBaud January 15, 1998 SAN FRANCISCO--In what certainly was not a hacker's delight, RSA Data Security CEO Jim Bidzos stunned the crowd at his company's annual conference this week as he joined old-school rappers The Sugar Hill Gang for a detourned version of da Gang's classic, "Rapper's Delight." Well aware that he's no Kool Moe Dee, Bidzos hip-hopped his way through the modified lyrics, which contained such sparkling couplets as... "They once proposed a thing called Clipper Now there's something new that ain't much hipper Key recovery won't work, so the experts say But the government wants to push it on us anyway" and "I like hip hip hop I like to online shop I trust RSA To keep the hackers at bay" ...then promised never to pull such a stunt again. The RSA conference audience of crypto-math geeks, cyberlibertarians, and snoop-dogs cheered, of course. They'd throw their hands in the air (and wave them like they just don't care) for a wet sponge if it smelled antiauthoritarian, but many breathed a sigh of relief. Despite the awkward moments, Bidzos, who's made quite a name for himself as a public enemy of the federal government's restrictions on the export of encryption software, looked mahvelous sporting a fresh Van Dyke facial-hair arrangement on his prizefighter's mug. He apparently grew the ensemble to match the Sugar Hill Gang--in appearance at least, if not in dope MC talent. Always the suave host, Jim will be back among his tribe at the end-of-conference gala, for which the company has rented out the California Academy of Sciences in Golden Gate Park. The Skintelligentsia certainly will be there looking out for any representatives of Pretty Good Privacy, the crypto company enmeshed in legal battles with RSA. The PGP-brains don't have a booth at the RSA conference this year, but in celebration of their merger with Network Associates--the newly formed utility software company, that is, not the PR agency--they managed to throw a soiree last night at the Marky-Mark Hopkins Hotel, right across the street from the RSA proceedings at the equally fly Fairmont. Speaking of snubs, crypto rivals VeriSign and GTE, whose booths at the Fairmont were practically alongside one another, have been playing a bit of one-upmanship recently. Certificate authority (CA) VeriSign uses hardware storage from BBN to safeguard software encryption keys at its Silicon Valley offices. The hardware--which looks like small blue boxes about the size of a desktop telephone set--is the crypto equivalent of a strong box, ostensibly impervious to hackers. But BBN was recently bought by GTE, which owns rival CA Cybertrust Solutions, and all of a sudden, VeriSign isn't satisfied with the "performance" of those little blue boxes. The company has started looking elsewhere for its strong-box solutions, according to a Skinside source. How will users of encryption trust the "trusted third parties" if the trusted third parties don't trust each other? Staying in Baghdad by the Bay, the conspiracy birds are clacking their beaks over the latest public transportation developments. S.F.'s Municipal Railway (or "Muni," as the local posse calls it) has just opened an extension from the end of Market Street down to Willie Mays Plaza, now just a gaping pit where the new baseball stadium will spring up by the year 2000. The shorthand for the new rail spur? "MMX," short for Muni Metro Extension. Sure, the project's gone over budget, but I swear it fixed that floating-point problem years ago... Speaking of Big Willie Style, San Fran's mayor Willie Brown--who looks great in a fedora, I must say--may be second only to Bill Gates when it comes to haughty treatment of minions, but do Willie's employees sit on Thai temples and proclaim their divinity? That's apparently what happened to a Microsoft programmer on vacation. According to email making the rounds among MSN and WebTV employees, the young fellow (who didn't answer his Redmond phone when my agents rang him up) overheated his circuits, perched himself atop an ancient Thai temple for 10 hours, and told the authorities he was God. It took scaffolding and a special police neck-hold to bring him down, according to the report. Brutal, Juice, brutal! Whether the item is true or not, it produced some amusing comments as it made its way through the outer provinces of Lawrence Lessig's favorite evil empire. "So, um, how closely are we supposed to try to blend into the Microsoft culture?" mused one WebTV employee as the tidbit made its way around the company. "I'm sure that each of us, at one time or another, has had the experience of waking up in some God-forsaken tropical paradise and feeling that horrible falling sensation that comes from being separated from your desk and workstation," wrote another Webhead.

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