- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

Re: The Market for Crypto--A Curmudgeon's View
by shamrock＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Sandy wrote: > >Here's my suggestion. Eric should unilaterally impose his first >step, i.e., all unsigned messages and messages with spoofed >signatures will henceforth be flagged as such. Let's see what >effect, if any, that has on the way people post their messages. >After the protocol has been in effect for some time, we can >re-open the topic for further discussion. It seems we have pretty much reached a consensus. Eric should implement a way to flag un signend posts. [Loved the various headers in Eric's post. They were real funny.] After this is implemented lets se how it works and see what else should be done. However, I agree that this is Eric's list and Eric's rules. If he decides that it would be a Good Thing to incentivise us Cypherpunks to use more crypto when posting to the list, he is free to do so with our without anyone's consent. -- Lucky Green <shamrock(a)netcom.com> PGP encrypted mail preferred. "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." <George Washington>

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Re: PGP hook for Eudora?
by crawford＠scruznet.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>At 9:17 AM 11/30/94, dmandl(a)bear.com wrote: >>I keep hearing about PGP hooks for (Mac) Eudora, but a casual search >>of at least five advertised ftp sites has turned up nothing. Can >>someone post an address where this stuff can definitely be found? The commercial Eudora (2.0 or later) supports the Word Services Apple Events Suite. This allows text services such as spellchecking or encryption to be placed in the menu bar, without use of AppleScript. There is not yet a Word Services aware encryption program, though, but its not too hard to write one, starting from the existing MacPGP or pgptools code. The Word Services Software Development Kit should be on mac.archive.umich.edu. I'm going to put out an updated one for anonymous FTP pretty soon. The SDK only has example code for the client side (a simple, teachtext-like word processor), but between that and the protocol specification it should not be too hard to figure out. I developed the Word Services suite (with lots of help), and prepared the SDK, as well as implementing Word Services in Working Software's Spellswell 7 spellchecker. Michael D. Crawford crawford(a)scruznet.com <- Please note change of address. crawford(a)maxwell.ucsc.edu <- Finger me here for PGP Public Key.

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Double Negatives and Ideology (Was: Re: We are ALL guests)
by jamiel＠sybase.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 11:44 AM 11/30/94, James A. Donald wrote: > ex-extropian Does this make one a Tropian? Just checking :) -j

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Premail and transparent email
by raph＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

It's quite gratifying to see that people are actually using premail and like it. I see premail as a prototype for _real_ transparent email encryption. A lot of people are intimidated by the need to get premail off the ftp site, unzip/untar it, and set all the configuration variables to get it running right. This "intimidation factor," of course, only applies to *x people. Everybody else is completely out of luck. I think the same problems hold with most of the scripts that are out there. Every time I've gotten something to play with, I've had to diddle with pathnames, or the makefile, or whatever. The real solution, I think, is to get all the needed components for transparent email encryption into the standard releases of the tools. I'm currently working on exactly this project. In rough outline, PGP will run as a "server" process. Mailers would connect to the server, and pass all incoming and outgoing mail through it. One advantage is that clients would contain _no_ crypto content, so there would be no problems with exportability. The server would contain much of the functionality of premail. I showed an early prototype at the last cpunks meeting. Initially, I am doing all the work in *x, just because that's what I have tools for, but ultimately it should work for Windows and Mac as well. My intent is to get large numbers of people to use PGP to encrypt all of their email, including casual stuff. This won't happen until encryption and decryption are _totally_ transparent. -- Raph Levien -- raph(a)netcom.com

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John Young's Informal survey....
by an41389＠anon.penet.fi 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tis I, Wintermute, aka The Al Capone of the Info Highway. I checked through this info, and I seem to be safe and sound. It's interesting that your system does this. Thanks for letting me have a chance to protect myself.... Wintermute ******************************** Anon.penet.fi Header (Al Capone) >From owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com Sun Nov 27 19:49 EST 1994 Received: from news.pipeline.com (news [198.80.32.5]) by pipeline.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA05980 for <jya(a)pipeline.com>; Sun, 27 Nov 1994 19:49:52 -0500 Received: from relay2.UU.NET (relay2.UU.NET [192.48.96.7]) by news.pipeline.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA14755 for <jya(a)pipeline.com>; Sun, 27 Nov 1994 19:30:25 -0500 Received: from toad.com by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP id QQxrwz27537; Sun, 27 Nov 1994 19:29:53 -0500 Received: by toad.com id AA16432; Sun, 27 Nov 94 16:27:21 PST Received: from anon.penet.fi by toad.com id AA16426; Sun, 27 Nov 94 16:27:16 PST Received: by anon.penet.fi (5.67/1.35) id AA03124; Mon, 28 Nov 94 01:12:06 +0200 Message-Id: <9411272312.AA03124(a)anon.penet.fi> To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com From: an41389(a)anon.penet.fi (The Al Capone of the Info Highway) X-Anonymously-To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Organization: Anonymous contact service Reply-To: an41389(a)anon.penet.fi Date: Sun, 27 Nov 1994 23:12:05 UTC Subject: How to disable telnet to port 25 Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com Precedence: bulk Content-Type: text Content-Length: 764 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help(a)anon.penet.fi. Due to the double-blind, any mail replies to this message will be anonymized, and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned. Please report any problems, inappropriate use etc. to admin(a)anon.penet.fi.

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Re: Authentication at toad.com: WTF?
by JEFF LICQUIA (CEI) 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > From: "L. Todd Masco" <cactus(a)hks.net> > Does the idea of having the list software check signatures strike > anybody else as a Bad Idea? Signatures should be checked locally > by the recipient -- otherwise one might as well ask the sender to > include a statement stating whether or not a message is authentic > and should be believed. I wouldn't want to see cypherpunks being > used to propogate this false security -- majordomo can no more be > trusted, as an external agent, than a message's sender. It is a LITTLE more secure than trusting the message sender. After all, the cypherpunks sig checker would be an independent party. Sure, if Eric decided he didn't like someone, he could hack the sig checker to always reject that person's signatures; on the other hand, he could hack the list server right now to reject people's posts outright. As long as it were recognized as an "outside authority" (with proper disclaimers), I think it would be useful. At the very least, one would always have the option of checking the sig also. The problem is that checking the digsigs of everyone posting to the list is pretty tedious and time-consuming; consequently, the sigs generally go unchecked. I think they still hold a benefit both as spoof/fraud insurance and as an evangelism tool (a fact I have just today been reminded of). Another good argument for "automatic" crypto in news/mail readers! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBLtzwSTER5KvPRd0NAQEHBwQAmM9Gk7q6Ieh/QAw+2ardAgMrhUJWLVpG FByPwJGhm/OIvya6Bx+A1en9eTvatL2CwScXaLQiatBqOy7Zxlh1Edv5FUFlONqV ShsZ8G9LOldYfqqI5Q0ifTh9uWEZLIfxb6AW7ZqwoDTHvtthoVhdyy4gucf3Dp41 FssfdkqoFJw= =nziF -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Authentication at toad.com: WTF?
by The new cypherpunks signature checking agent 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The below message was found to have a valid signature from "JEFF LICQUIA (CEI) " JLICQUIA(a)mhc.uiuc.edu. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- I trust that this will illustrate my point a little more effectively. It's being sent to cypherpunks as well for informational purpose: to spoof to the entire list would require a slight amount more sophistication. -- Todd -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBLtzwSTER5KvPRd0NAQEHBwQAmM9Gk7q6Ieh/QAw+2ardAgMrhUJWLVpG FByPwJGhm/OIvya6Bx+A1en9Asdlkjaso819A/jaAOOISDcalAL77YhaIk7f9s+a ShsZ8asdIU8hfGhY7u8JK94HhhSDY7Sk93KjjkPosj8Hjkhk+asdJ87l/aDHjDj1 FssfdkqoFJw= =nziF -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: We are ALL guests (except Eric)
by dmandl＠bear.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> From: <jamesd(a)netcom.com> > > If you claim that Eric does not own the list then you claim that it > is unjust for him to change the rules without consent. > > If I claim he owns the list then I claim that it perfectly proper > for him to change the rules without consent, regardless of whether > or not he has a good, or even sane, reason. [...] So what's the point? Fortunately, Eric and not you is running the list, and he's a reasonable man. Yeah, sure, according to the rules of PPL or Roman Law or mathematics or whatever, he has every right to take unilateral action and do whatever he wants to with the list. OK, he's the "owner," so? This is the real world, not an algebra lesson: the whole reason this discussion is happening is that Eric realizes there are a few hundred friends (damn, I should have said "comrades") involved here and he would like to discuss the issue. This "ownership" thread seems like a gratuitous exercise in abstract propertarian philosophy. Man, some people actually seem EAGER to have Eric make some drastic unilateral move just so they can bleat "Yes sir, he's the owner, that's his right! Yes sir, he's the owner, that's his right!" and have their worldview sanctioned. Yes, that IS his right, but he's obviously too nice a guy to just do it tomorrow morning without discussing it first and then inform us all of the new status of his "property." So why don't we just discuss his proposal? I agree with Tim that effortless encryption/signing of email is still a dream for most of us. I don't think there should be any "punishment" for not signing (not even having the non-signer's mail delayed). I do think signing should be encouraged. I think that at some time in the future (a year?) Eric's proposal may be reasonable, but I don't think it's time yet. --Dave.

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Re: Mandatory sig workaround
by turcotte＠io.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > From: Bob Snyder <snyderra(a)dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu> > > I don't sign/encrypt to > mailing list as many people get disgruntled by it and can cause > problems of it's own. > >Now encryption I can see disgruntlement at but a cleartext signature? Haven't been living in the BBS world much lately have you? There was a monster debate recently on Fidonet's Encryption Forum and some folks from Net 106 (Houston, TX, if I recall correctly) with some sysops in that region claiming that the signature was encryption and who were therefore bouncing things because they didn't want encrypted things on their boards. Sigh....out in the world some *serious* education is needed. Brett Turcotte. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBLt0tCOZ0KZVyrk5FAQFoHAQAp/tXplm+LimcoToFUD6HOSGCpd322Tw5 VxKr141BvzmTKfvFBoElnHckN8IXPkvapMsvyJel49V+q7caf687TfgUKq4uA3+K LzPQ0nAij5rd9NBR2yu3755jLYYpU/I27g8w122Ob7uxqP/ygPwHyIKMe/rl89Wc ZzselV0J1rE= =JwEI -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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We are ALL guests (except Eric)
by skaplin＠skypoint.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- With the recent furor over the possibility of mandatory key signing on this list, I think we all are forgetting something. We are all guests here. Eric is our host. I've seen proposals for voting on the issue, I've seen posts saying "I'm not going to do it, wah wah wah." This list is analogous to Eric's home. We are his guests. If a host asks his guests to do something he or she has two choices, do it or leave. If someone walked into my house and I asked them to do something and they said: "Lets vote on it," they would be out the door quicker than a 'toon on a banana peel. Eric has been a gentleman about this. He is not asking those who do not wish to comply to leave. This is Eric's house and I think we need to play by his rules while we are here. One caveat for Eric though, hosts with stringent rules are usually very lonely. ============================================================================== A government is the only know vessel that leaks from the top. --James Reston-- ============================================================================== skaplin(a)skypoint.com | "...vidi vici veni" - Overheard | outside a Roman brothel. PGP encrypted mail is accepted and | preferred. | Change is the only constant in the | Universe..."Four quarters, please." E-mail key(a)four11.com for PGP Key or | Finger skaplin(a)mirage.skypoint.com | Smile!! Big brother is watching. ============================================================================== -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBLtwymApnimeWAf3FAQGOkQQAgK6OrqyifMk3aICiLdtjHWILxUyAyTWx HyEXgfNdo3VXKALOCpON3sbtgiYlopFU9PyqQY4JGhievAfElEFOgUzfcOcNutKR vLeT73zsvYl0zJPk6TkKhBwLymykHcBq5VtM8qLFustkEOynlVNHanBZlCQEj1sC HKYfjJbX65E= =5hb+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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